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AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,823
Does the demon bell increase skill points gained? I only need the Lapis and skill points for platinum. I'm sitting here at work trying to think how I'm going to finish it off, trying to remember if I for sure got 6 Lapis the first time through. I'm pretty sure I did and I should only need 4, but if I need 1 or 2 more that's a big deal, lol.



"Yeah, I know where I can find 2 more Lapis, I'm not going back there!"

BN-AA421_1018on_M_20131016170804.jpg
 

Nymir

Member
Oct 27, 2017
254
I just started a charmless level 1 run, base vit and attack power, but I'm getting skills, no way I'm not using Mikiri and Ichimonji.

Plan on activating Demon Bell as well.

Not sure if I can do it, but I'm very excited to try.

I can't go back to having Kuro's Charm after my first NG+ without it. It's just a more interesting game, imo.

Base attack power sounds rough, good luck! Keep us updated. With base vitality you kind have to perfect parry anyway so I could have gone with charmless as well, it just seemed a bit more stressful lol, especially in the beginning of the game where cures are hard do come by.

I think playing Charmless enhances some of the boss fights a good deal. The first time I faced Corrupted Monk I played like a Souls game, depleting most of her health, and I found her kind of boring and spongy, but it's fantastic to just deflect the shit out of her and see the posture bar fill up faster and faster. I understand why they didn't want to have it as a default option, but I can't see myself playing the standard way going forward.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
Still slowly making my way into the late game after having a few weeks away due to travel and other games, the latter still having me playing less often in general. But thankfully I'm not too rusty and have managed to defeat hard bosses still.

Also, only glancing at discussion due to feeling like people are more openly talking about bosses, but glad to hear my combat art choices are considered good, haha. I feel like Nightjar (with Reversal now) really helps me push myself into the playstyle that works best for me. And for fights/phases where it's not as fitting, or when I'm trying to become more comfortable with the fight first, Double has been what I've used the most.

Used them both a lot last night.

Last time I played, after 3 weeks off, it was just warmup and then getting back to Owl, though I then beat him relatively quickly. This time I finally got Fountainhead and bashed up against True Monk for a loooooong while; given my track record I probably shoulda quit and gotten it fast next time, but whatever. I ended up going using Ichimonji a lot during the first two phases and Nightjar for the end, and that helped a decent amount even if I'd accidentally use an Ichimonji instead of deflecting sometimes.

Beyond that, I was really hesitant to use tools/items since I was low on emblems and some other things. Did end up resorting to rare healing items on the third bar just to keep going as I was so close when I reached it, only to die at the last moment (...I blame my cat, she showed up and started brushing against my arm outta nowhere so I had to keep pausing, and I got terror-puked on when I was dodging well till that point). I used some more when I finally got that close to the end again after a long time; I feel bad about using grass and such, but it's probably better than saving them forever.

My main observation from the fight is that it took me forever to get Mikiri down again, which I guess I feel like is the case for every boss. But here it's personally laughable, given how for the first Monk fight I got decent at forcing myself to observe the blade positioning for what attack was actually coming, and I guess that flew out the window in the month since then. And avoiding using emblems/items was weird for me even though I don't outright rely on them, but it was probably a very good thing to do on a fight like this as I'm shaking off rust still. I mainly just used the mist raven when hurt a few times far into the fight, since that leaned into my playstyle well.

In general, it was a surprisingly good fight for letting me continue to figure out what specifically I do without thinking that makes some runs much better than others, even this late in the game? I'm realizing that I distinctly play better when I have high posture and low health. I'm sure some of that's just the rush/desperation, but falling into "ok, let me just do my best to use this doomed run to figure things out for next run" mode actually helps the current run more than I'd expect. And since I get posture broken, I end up staying closer with my dodges instead of getting away so much that I'm the one getting slowly taken down. And so on; it's something that's gonna be on my mind a lot more for the rest of the game.

I don't usually play games like this, so it's been extremely satisfying to push myself to actually read patterns well, and realize when to let myself get into an aggressive flow rather than being hesitant forever, and being more committed to my deflects. I still don't think I'm particularly good at it or able to pick up a lot of things, but I'm happy to use it as a learning experience for being able to apply this kind of focus elsewhere and in other ways? It's something I should be thinking about as like... a life technique, to some degree, a lot more, really.

...but honestly what even was that middle phase, I couldn't tell what I was supposed to do and snap seeds seemed to only dispel a single shadow so I mainly just zipped around and hoped I wouldn't get grazed
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,385
Germany
That feeling when you get better at the actual boss but worse at Genishiro.

At least I made it to phase two this session. And that seems a lot more manageable when it comes to posture damage than the first phase. Now I just don't have to die and make it through the third one. It'll be.. easy-.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
That feeling when you get better at the actual boss but worse at Genishiro.

At least I made it to phase two this session. And that seems a lot more manageable when it comes to posture damage than the first phase. Now I just don't have to die and make it through the third one. It'll be.. easy-.

I think that happened to all of us. At least it happened to me.
 

Carbonox

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,602
NG+ has been such a breeze. Did everything that can be done trophy-wise in my first run and NG+ is for the other ending and skill/upgrade grinding but holy shit I'm obliterating everything and it feels so good. This is the run where I finally feel like all the skills and techniques, along with learning enemy/boss patterns, that I've gradually gotten used to in that first run all click as one single entity. So satisfying.
 

DmckPower

Member
Feb 1, 2018
2,266
100%. A couple of times a week I hop into this thread and get the urge to "clash swords" again, even though I'm on NG4

That's literally all I'm excited for - clashing swords with enemies. It's intoxicating.

Its a masterwork of a game.

Coupled with beautiful art & animations,replaying Sekiro is extremely fun and addicting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Base attack power sounds rough, good luck! Keep us updated. With base vitality you kind have to perfect parry anyway so I could have gone with charmless as well, it just seemed a bit more stressful lol, especially in the beginning of the game where cures are hard do come by.

I think playing Charmless enhances some of the boss fights a good deal. The first time I faced Corrupted Monk I played like a Souls game, depleting most of her health, and I found her kind of boring and spongy, but it's fantastic to just deflect the shit out of her and see the posture bar fill up faster and faster. I understand why they didn't want to have it as a default option, but I can't see myself playing the standard way going forward.
Well, first update, I died to Oniwa for the first time in more than 130 hours.

And the second time.

And the third, and fourth.

4 deaths to fucking Oniwa. Never died to him before. LMAO.

This will be rough.

It was kind of cool, though, I never had to actually pay attention to his moveset and learn to parry his moves.
 

Jencks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,450
Am at the final boss and I can pretty consistently get him to phase 2 (or 3). His overhead slam has some sketchy hitboxes that seem to connect with I'm a decent distance away, and occasionally it causes the camera to go wack. I think other than that though I just need to keep grinding him out.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,704
Does the demon bell increase skill points gained? I only need the Lapis and skill points for platinum. I'm sitting here at work trying to think how I'm going to finish it off, trying to remember if I for sure got 6 Lapis the first time through. I'm pretty sure I did and I should only need 4, but if I need 1 or 2 more that's a big deal, lol.

"Yeah, I know where I can find 2 more Lapis, I'm not going back there!"
Haha, just check your upgrade tree at dilapidated to see how many you're missing to make sure. And the place where you get 2, you'll probably be surprised how much easier it is the second time.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
So.

I gave up. The game broke me.
I counted it from when I started really trying this week on Saturday. 100. I tried to beat Genichiro/Isshin 100 times. Just in this stream of attempts. I definitely tried more before. When I reached 100, and Genichiro was the one standing over me... I just said fuck it, turned off the PS4, and watched the endings on Youtube. I'm done with Sekiro for now.

Flames of Hatred? 10 tries. Owl? 15~20. Genichiro 1? 40ish. And through all of them I could tell, "yes, I'm learning" each time I lost with some slight hiccups with Genichiro. I definitely "got good", as it were. I did use shinobi tools and skills, but you know what? The game never really punished me for using them, just for using them wrong, so it's on the game for teaching wrong if I was solely supposed to "git good" by parrying and dodging alone.

Here? Given that you absolutely need to beat Genichiro without using a single tool or skill that costs emblems? It almost felt like sheer luck at times. I rarely thought "yes, that was my fault" when I died. The furthest I got was the final lightning phase, once, around try 30, but I used all my healing items by then and my controller input fucked up in the middle of me trying to redirect lightning so I died. I never got further than the start of spear phase again, except once.

By all accounts this was a perfect game for me. Keyword, was. Sword Saint alone has made me reconsider. It still may well be GotY for me by virtue of the Palace alone (it's so fucking gorgeous, when I'm less bummed I may come back to gush about it later) but were I a game reviewer I couldn't possibly give it a 10/10. Just... The fact that the backdrop of it all is "Hurry, save Kuro!" and I was basically stopped in my tracks from doing that for well over 20 hours of playtime... No. Fuck that. Like I could understand if the situation was less hurried, or the game was more like Soulsborne and wasn't more plot heavy.... Sure fine. But as is, it's a really bad design decision.

I just realized if I kept trying I wouldn't just hate the Sword Saint boss fight- I'd hate the game itself. So, fine, I give up. Game broke me. I honestly can't understand how people can legitimately say they don't only like the fight, but think it's the best fight in the game.

And I'm kind of glad I gave up here because the ending I was gonna get (or any of them really) wouldn't have been fulfilling for the time I'd have inevitably spent on it. For reference, it was the Dragon Homecoming/Return ending. Like, I appreciate it's hopeful but shows Wolf has a lot of trials to go through to save both himself and Kuro and return immortality to it's proper place, but the fact I have to wait to find out what happens to Kuro and Emma and the Divine Child and Wolf himself now... If it's even broached? Just like... why put me through all that for a cliffhanger? @_@ I do hope it's the canon ending though, at the very least, as a Sekiro 2 set in Western/Southern Japan, Korea, China or India could be pretty neat, whatever "west" means for where the source of the dragon bloodline.

The other two "good" endings, well... let's just say I'm glad I figured out I probably shouldn't just go through the game without exploring heavily because the ending of "Wolf kills Kuro, becomes a sculptor" is incredibly unfulfilling. Wolf ending his own life for Kuro's sake, who then goes on to probably live a nice full life is fine... but it's strange Emma stuck behind when presumably Ashina was all but destroyed and she now has no one to serve. She doesn't necessarily have to go with Kuro as a guardian, but what else is there for her to do in Ashina? That ending, unlike the sculptor ending, doesn't even have the implication of a looped timeline via NG+, so it's not like she's sticking around to help Wolf (another Wolf?) yet again.

Like I do think all those endings, at least, imply a sequel. Whether it ends up being Wolf passing on the prosthetic, Kuro becoming a strong warrior/ninja himself, or Wolf traveling to Western Japan/Korea/China/India... I think any DLC would be linked to Tomoe and the previous Divine Heir, for sure. Wouldn't be hard to implement that either, just re-use Ashina Castle's map to visit the past, maybe include a side area that gets blown up after a big boss fight or something.

To be clear I mostly enjoyed the game. It just... broke me. Bad. Which I wasn't expecting because up until then it was legit easier for me than Soulsborne.

I'll try again after playing through a few other games like Nier Automata and Horizon, maybe it'll click then. For now, solid 9/10. Could've been 10 though...
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
I have a question about things I can miss, as I near the end of the game. Googling keeps getting me increasingly close to actual spoilers and not just grudgingly accepting knowing some remaining boss names, so...

I've heard that once you clear Fountainhead, you apparently lose access to the new Ashina castle bosses, right?

I beat the serpent temple and dojo ones tonight; is there another or is it only those two? I guess I beat the new chained ogre as well, if that counts.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
I have a question about things I can miss, as I near the end of the game. Googling keeps getting me increasingly close to actual spoilers and not just grudgingly accepting knowing some remaining boss names, so...

I've heard that once you clear Fountainhead, you apparently lose access to the new Ashina castle bosses, right?

I beat the serpent temple and dojo ones tonight; is there another or is it only those two? I guess I beat the new chained ogre as well, if that counts.

Yes. There are no other minibosses in the Castle you could kill right now, other than the headless submerged in the moat. The 3 you mentioned are the ones that will drop Prayer beads and thus, can be missed after you trigger a certain event in Fountainhead palace.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
So.

I gave up. The game broke me.
I counted it from when I started really trying this week on Saturday. 100. I tried to beat Genichiro/Isshin 100 times. Just in this stream of attempts. I definitely tried more before. When I reached 100, and Genichiro was the one standing over me... I just said fuck it, turned off the PS4, and watched the endings on Youtube. I'm done with Sekiro for now.

Flames of Hatred? 10 tries. Owl? 15~20. Genichiro 1? 40ish. And through all of them I could tell, "yes, I'm learning" each time I lost with some slight hiccups with Genichiro. I definitely "got good", as it were. I did use shinobi tools and skills, but you know what? The game never really punished me for using them, just for using them wrong, so it's on the game for teaching wrong if I was solely supposed to "git good" by parrying and dodging alone.

Here? Given that you absolutely need to beat Genichiro without using a single tool or skill that costs emblems? It almost felt like sheer luck at times. I rarely thought "yes, that was my fault" when I died. The furthest I got was the final lightning phase, once, around try 30, but I used all my healing items by then and my controller input fucked up in the middle of me trying to redirect lightning so I died. I never got further than the start of spear phase again, except once.

By all accounts this was a perfect game for me. Keyword, was. Sword Saint alone has made me reconsider. It still may well be GotY for me by virtue of the Palace alone (it's so fucking gorgeous, when I'm less bummed I may come back to gush about it later) but were I a game reviewer I couldn't possibly give it a 10/10. Just... The fact that the backdrop of it all is "Hurry, save Kuro!" and I was basically stopped in my tracks from doing that for well over 20 hours of playtime... No. Fuck that. Like I could understand if the situation was less hurried, or the game was more like Soulsborne and wasn't more plot heavy.... Sure fine. But as is, it's a really bad design decision.

I just realized if I kept trying I wouldn't just hate the Sword Saint boss fight- I'd hate the game itself. So, fine, I give up. Game broke me. I honestly can't understand how people can legitimately say they don't only like the fight, but think it's the best fight in the game.

And I'm kind of glad I gave up here because the ending I was gonna get (or any of them really) wouldn't have been fulfilling for the time I'd have inevitably spent on it. For reference, it was the Dragon Homecoming/Return ending. Like, I appreciate it's hopeful but shows Wolf has a lot of trials to go through to save both himself and Kuro and return immortality to it's proper place, but the fact I have to wait to find out what happens to Kuro and Emma and the Divine Child and Wolf himself now... If it's even broached? Just like... why put me through all that for a cliffhanger? @_@ I do hope it's the canon ending though, at the very least, as a Sekiro 2 set in Western/Southern Japan, Korea, China or India could be pretty neat, whatever "west" means for where the source of the dragon bloodline.

The other two "good" endings, well... let's just say I'm glad I figured out I probably shouldn't just go through the game without exploring heavily because the ending of "Wolf kills Kuro, becomes a sculptor" is incredibly unfulfilling. Wolf ending his own life for Kuro's sake, who then goes on to probably live a nice full life is fine... but it's strange Emma stuck behind when presumably Ashina was all but destroyed and she now has no one to serve. She doesn't necessarily have to go with Kuro as a guardian, but what else is there for her to do in Ashina? That ending, unlike the sculptor ending, doesn't even have the implication of a looped timeline via NG+, so it's not like she's sticking around to help Wolf (another Wolf?) yet again.

Like I do think all those endings, at least, imply a sequel. Whether it ends up being Wolf passing on the prosthetic, Kuro becoming a strong warrior/ninja himself, or Wolf traveling to Western Japan/Korea/China/India... I think any DLC would be linked to Tomoe and the previous Divine Heir, for sure. Wouldn't be hard to implement that either, just re-use Ashina Castle's map to visit the past, maybe include a side area that gets blown up after a big boss fight or something.

To be clear I mostly enjoyed the game. It just... broke me. Bad. Which I wasn't expecting because up until then it was legit easier for me than Soulsborne.

I'll try again after playing through a few other games like Nier Automata and Horizon, maybe it'll click then. For now, solid 9/10. Could've been 10 though...
I guarantee that with a little bit more you will ruin them. Gen always starts with a single or double slash. Learn the timing to dodge to the side from the last minute slash. As soon as you have that down move on. Then it's the long combo that's easy punishable with parry. If huge jumps roll to the side and punish.

Basically when will be dead in 30 to 40 seconds once you have him sussed.

Final boss is just patience learn the combos. If you need to heal make sure you really keep your distance or you will be pissed when he attacks and hits you while healing.

Punish the lightning and laugh at how much easier it is.

Realise the games a ten out of ten and continue to playthrough it atleast five times. Laugh at how you once thought the last boss was tough.
 

Metroidfan09

Member
Jan 10, 2019
408
England
Getting better against the final boss
can get to the 3rd phase with some ease mostly, but the fact he has such range with the spear and gun is totally not fun, I know to use the umbrella to block his jumping leap but it then than that he fucks me up
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,065
UK
The jumping leap towards you? You can just walk/dodge under or around that, it's prime opportunity to get damage in. The jump back with the big spear slash is deflectable. I wouldn't waste spirit emblems on it if you can help it.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Shura ending was pretty interesting.
I hated doing that to Emma, but it was kinda satisfying doing that to Owl Father after knowing he did the same to you.


I don't think the Shura boss is the toughest boss as some have suggested. I think his final phase may be the toughest of any boss, but once you figure out how to survive, and indeed take no damage and counter, his big move, its not that bad. The first phase of the battle takes a little bit of time to master, but the second phase is fairly easy (but long).


Once again, the Umbrella is the MVP. To me it is the most valuable prosthetic on the final boss for each of the two primary paths to end the game, and the most valuable for DoH and the Guardian Ape. And Double Ichimoji is once again the go-to - and perhaps overpowered - combat art. For anyone that thinks the game is too hard, these 2 things are the saviors.
Umbrella is the secret game changer for the late game boss battles.

Getting better against the final boss
can get to the 3rd phase with some ease mostly, but the fact he has such range with the spear and gun is totally not fun, I know to use the umbrella to block his jumping leap but it then than that he fucks me up
The lightning counters make this phase pretty trivial once you're comfortable with phase 2. As with the prior phase you want to stay right up in his face and get comfortable dodging forward whenever he does his retreating jump slash, to close distance. His posture is actually quite low, but it recovers fast. Giving him too much breathing room prolongs the fight and gives him more chances to catch you in a mistake.
 

Deleted member 13642

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
374
Did they patch out the cheese on the first two health bars of true monk? Can't seem to land them anymore since the last patch, which is a huge problem since she's the last thing between me and my xp loop for the platinum on ng++ with no charm...
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
So.

I gave up. The game broke me.
I counted it from when I started really trying this week on Saturday. 100. I tried to beat Genichiro/Isshin 100 times. Just in this stream of attempts. I definitely tried more before. When I reached 100, and Genichiro was the one standing over me... I just said fuck it, turned off the PS4, and watched the endings on Youtube. I'm done with Sekiro for now.

Flames of Hatred? 10 tries. Owl? 15~20. Genichiro 1? 40ish. And through all of them I could tell, "yes, I'm learning" each time I lost with some slight hiccups with Genichiro. I definitely "got good", as it were. I did use shinobi tools and skills, but you know what? The game never really punished me for using them, just for using them wrong, so it's on the game for teaching wrong if I was solely supposed to "git good" by parrying and dodging alone.

Here? Given that you absolutely need to beat Genichiro without using a single tool or skill that costs emblems? It almost felt like sheer luck at times. I rarely thought "yes, that was my fault" when I died. The furthest I got was the final lightning phase, once, around try 30, but I used all my healing items by then and my controller input fucked up in the middle of me trying to redirect lightning so I died. I never got further than the start of spear phase again, except once.

By all accounts this was a perfect game for me. Keyword, was. Sword Saint alone has made me reconsider. It still may well be GotY for me by virtue of the Palace alone (it's so fucking gorgeous, when I'm less bummed I may come back to gush about it later) but were I a game reviewer I couldn't possibly give it a 10/10. Just... The fact that the backdrop of it all is "Hurry, save Kuro!" and I was basically stopped in my tracks from doing that for well over 20 hours of playtime... No. Fuck that. Like I could understand if the situation was less hurried, or the game was more like Soulsborne and wasn't more plot heavy.... Sure fine. But as is, it's a really bad design decision.

I just realized if I kept trying I wouldn't just hate the Sword Saint boss fight- I'd hate the game itself. So, fine, I give up. Game broke me. I honestly can't understand how people can legitimately say they don't only like the fight, but think it's the best fight in the game.

And I'm kind of glad I gave up here because the ending I was gonna get (or any of them really) wouldn't have been fulfilling for the time I'd have inevitably spent on it. For reference, it was the Dragon Homecoming/Return ending. Like, I appreciate it's hopeful but shows Wolf has a lot of trials to go through to save both himself and Kuro and return immortality to it's proper place, but the fact I have to wait to find out what happens to Kuro and Emma and the Divine Child and Wolf himself now... If it's even broached? Just like... why put me through all that for a cliffhanger? @_@ I do hope it's the canon ending though, at the very least, as a Sekiro 2 set in Western/Southern Japan, Korea, China or India could be pretty neat, whatever "west" means for where the source of the dragon bloodline.

The other two "good" endings, well... let's just say I'm glad I figured out I probably shouldn't just go through the game without exploring heavily because the ending of "Wolf kills Kuro, becomes a sculptor" is incredibly unfulfilling. Wolf ending his own life for Kuro's sake, who then goes on to probably live a nice full life is fine... but it's strange Emma stuck behind when presumably Ashina was all but destroyed and she now has no one to serve. She doesn't necessarily have to go with Kuro as a guardian, but what else is there for her to do in Ashina? That ending, unlike the sculptor ending, doesn't even have the implication of a looped timeline via NG+, so it's not like she's sticking around to help Wolf (another Wolf?) yet again.

Like I do think all those endings, at least, imply a sequel. Whether it ends up being Wolf passing on the prosthetic, Kuro becoming a strong warrior/ninja himself, or Wolf traveling to Western Japan/Korea/China/India... I think any DLC would be linked to Tomoe and the previous Divine Heir, for sure. Wouldn't be hard to implement that either, just re-use Ashina Castle's map to visit the past, maybe include a side area that gets blown up after a big boss fight or something.

To be clear I mostly enjoyed the game. It just... broke me. Bad. Which I wasn't expecting because up until then it was legit easier for me than Soulsborne.

I'll try again after playing through a few other games like Nier Automata and Horizon, maybe it'll click then. For now, solid 9/10. Could've been 10 though...
Hopefully you'll get him when you come back after your break. If you can beat those other bosses you mentioned, you can beat this guy.

I understand the bit about using emblems. That's why I avoided using prosthetics and expensive skills during boss fights because I didn't want each attempt to have a high emblem cost. I hate grinding, and I didn't want to constantly worry about having to go back and grind for emblems if I failed too many times. So I always picked the emblem-less option when figuring out what to do against what.

I honestly think the game shouldn't have hiked emblem prices to scale with progression. The carry limit is fine for keeping people from spamming stuff too much. There's absolutely nothing overpowered about having a boatload of spare emblems in storage because all it does is save you from grinding.

If I knew I could buy emblems at 10 sen each throughout the game, I'd experiment with emblem moves a hell of a lot more.
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,823
So.

I gave up. The game broke me.
I counted it from when I started really trying this week on Saturday. 100. I tried to beat Genichiro/Isshin 100 times. Just in this stream of attempts. I definitely tried more before. When I reached 100, and Genichiro was the one standing over me... I just said fuck it, turned off the PS4, and watched the endings on Youtube. I'm done with Sekiro for now.

Flames of Hatred? 10 tries. Owl? 15~20. Genichiro 1? 40ish. And through all of them I could tell, "yes, I'm learning" each time I lost with some slight hiccups with Genichiro. I definitely "got good", as it were. I did use shinobi tools and skills, but you know what? The game never really punished me for using them, just for using them wrong, so it's on the game for teaching wrong if I was solely supposed to "git good" by parrying and dodging alone.

Here? Given that you absolutely need to beat Genichiro without using a single tool or skill that costs emblems? It almost felt like sheer luck at times. I rarely thought "yes, that was my fault" when I died. The furthest I got was the final lightning phase, once, around try 30, but I used all my healing items by then and my controller input fucked up in the middle of me trying to redirect lightning so I died. I never got further than the start of spear phase again, except once.

By all accounts this was a perfect game for me. Keyword, was. Sword Saint alone has made me reconsider. It still may well be GotY for me by virtue of the Palace alone (it's so fucking gorgeous, when I'm less bummed I may come back to gush about it later) but were I a game reviewer I couldn't possibly give it a 10/10. Just... The fact that the backdrop of it all is "Hurry, save Kuro!" and I was basically stopped in my tracks from doing that for well over 20 hours of playtime... No. Fuck that. Like I could understand if the situation was less hurried, or the game was more like Soulsborne and wasn't more plot heavy.... Sure fine. But as is, it's a really bad design decision.

I just realized if I kept trying I wouldn't just hate the Sword Saint boss fight- I'd hate the game itself. So, fine, I give up. Game broke me. I honestly can't understand how people can legitimately say they don't only like the fight, but think it's the best fight in the game.

And I'm kind of glad I gave up here because the ending I was gonna get (or any of them really) wouldn't have been fulfilling for the time I'd have inevitably spent on it. For reference, it was the Dragon Homecoming/Return ending. Like, I appreciate it's hopeful but shows Wolf has a lot of trials to go through to save both himself and Kuro and return immortality to it's proper place, but the fact I have to wait to find out what happens to Kuro and Emma and the Divine Child and Wolf himself now... If it's even broached? Just like... why put me through all that for a cliffhanger? @_@ I do hope it's the canon ending though, at the very least, as a Sekiro 2 set in Western/Southern Japan, Korea, China or India could be pretty neat, whatever "west" means for where the source of the dragon bloodline.

The other two "good" endings, well... let's just say I'm glad I figured out I probably shouldn't just go through the game without exploring heavily because the ending of "Wolf kills Kuro, becomes a sculptor" is incredibly unfulfilling. Wolf ending his own life for Kuro's sake, who then goes on to probably live a nice full life is fine... but it's strange Emma stuck behind when presumably Ashina was all but destroyed and she now has no one to serve. She doesn't necessarily have to go with Kuro as a guardian, but what else is there for her to do in Ashina? That ending, unlike the sculptor ending, doesn't even have the implication of a looped timeline via NG+, so it's not like she's sticking around to help Wolf (another Wolf?) yet again.

Like I do think all those endings, at least, imply a sequel. Whether it ends up being Wolf passing on the prosthetic, Kuro becoming a strong warrior/ninja himself, or Wolf traveling to Western Japan/Korea/China/India... I think any DLC would be linked to Tomoe and the previous Divine Heir, for sure. Wouldn't be hard to implement that either, just re-use Ashina Castle's map to visit the past, maybe include a side area that gets blown up after a big boss fight or something.

To be clear I mostly enjoyed the game. It just... broke me. Bad. Which I wasn't expecting because up until then it was legit easier for me than Soulsborne.

I'll try again after playing through a few other games like Nier Automata and Horizon, maybe it'll click then. For now, solid 9/10. Could've been 10 though...



I would recommend putting it away for a few days and then trying again. And try this strategy:

Run around Genichiro's left side (your right) as soon as the fight starts and hit him with a double ichi. Then parry and fight him like usual and let his posture build up.

On ISS's first phase there are 2 keys to me - 1) Use the Umbrella on all of his AOE wind attacks, it will block them all and you don't have to worry, and if you end close to him you can use the counter attack; and 2) Parry and look for him to sheath his sword, when he does this run around immediately on his right side (your left) and he will likely do the Ashina Cross and you can hit him with a double ichi from behind. He goes to this move often and running around him kinda takes a lot of the guess work about about swipe/thrust kanji away.

On ISS's second phase, 3 keys - 1) Stay about lance length and parry like crazy. Look for the red kanji. When it comes around the back of his head on his left side (your right) - that is when you hit mikiri counter - this does a lot of posture damage and opens an attack and then stay on parry. 2) When you need to heal, run across the arena and heal and usually this will generate his leaping lance attack, so dodge right away and counter with 1 hit. This is actually the way to cheese the boss as you can run in circles and keep generating this attack - its a little tricky and time consuming and you can fall off the side so I don't recommend it unless nothing else works. Better to only use if you are really in big trouble, need to heal, otherwise you can use this to get his health down some and then work on the parrying and posture build. 3) Remember umbrella blocks all his wind AOE attacks.

3rd Phase is same strategy as Phase 2, just look for the lightening attacks. Jump straight up when the kanji is clearing and start spamming r1, the lightening reversals will make this phase end quickly if you do correctly.

Last tips:

- Pop a blue sugar at the start of ISS's Phase 1 and Phase 2. There is time and it will give you a little more confidence/boldness with the parry.
- Use all of your tools - make a save file with all 3 ressurrects and save scum (you have ps+?) if you lose them on unsuccessful runs. Hidden tooth can preserve a ressurect and give you 2 of them in a given phase and half a tank of health. Jizo statue can bring back a blocked ressurection. You probably have rice, divine grass, pellets.........make use of everything you have, particularly if a run is going well and again save scum to preserve your inventory if you need to.
- And with all those healing and ressurection options, don't be afraid and hesitate - the boss tells you that - get up there and parry and if you get hit going away and healing opens up a dodge-counter attack that's not too hard to do.
 
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AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,823
Getting better against the final boss
can get to the 3rd phase with some ease mostly, but the fact he has such range with the spear and gun is totally not fun, I know to use the umbrella to block his jumping leap but it then than that he fucks me up



See my post just above this.
Use the umbrella to block his AOE wind attacks (and counter if you don't get knocked back too much). Dodge out of his jumping leap and then hit him once. That to me is more of an attack opportunity. Try to stay at lance reach length most of the time and look for the mikiri counter on his kanji in his 2nd and 3rd phases. He has a perilous swipe but doesn't use that often, so focus on parrying and then the mikiri. You only want to be at far range really to heal, unless you are intentionally trying to bait his leap attack to do damage.
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,823
Oh! I think I can maybe do it in two. Thanks for the info!



No charm is probably pretty tough on her. I got past her on NG+ last night, but I still have the charm. I don't know really how to do pull off the deathblows. By the time I got to her on my first run they had already patched away the initial one, and I don't know how to do it in second phase - I presume grappling near the end of her shadow phase when she comes back and loses you for a bit.

On NG+ really only the Shura boss had given me any trouble before her, and I save scummed after Shura and beat Owl in 1 try. But she gave me trouble last night - pretty much had to use all my health to beat her.

I'm kinda glad though I never learned how to deathblow her, because it makes her a more rewarding boss to fight straight up. I remain pretty bad at the mikiri on her thrust because it comes so fast.
 

Deleted member 29857

User requested account closure
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Nov 2, 2017
602
Man Genichiro is beating my ass. Need some help on how to continue. Current status:

Currently stuck at Genichiro. I've beaten the iron knight at the temple and the sniper dude at some swamp place in the Depths.

Is Genichiro the next step, or can I continue with the temple without messing some of the endings up?
 

AgentOtaku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,442
Man Genichiro is beating my ass. Need some help on how to continue. Current status:

Currently stuck at Genichiro. I've beaten the iron knight at the temple and the sniper dude at some swamp place in the Depths.

Is Genichiro the next step, or can I continue with the temple without messing some of the endings up?
dont know about how endings are effected, but I'll say what worked for me:

-mostly posture based boss, so if you can nail his patterns and your deflect timings, alot of the work is already done
-be aware of this two red attacks (the poke and the swipe) as he tends alternate between them, especially on his last phase. I highlight these two because if you can counter them, they're some of the most reliable spots to get in damage, especially with double ichimochi.
- try to dodge his arrows rather than deflect, as they eat up posture and he loves to follow them up with slashes.
- be prepared to run alot in 2nd phase and maintain distance when healing as his red lunge covers massive distance. This move in particular can bring alot of anxiety in the fight, especially when trying to get your footing
 

Deleted member 29857

User requested account closure
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Nov 2, 2017
602
dont know about how endings are effected, but I'll say what worked for me:

-mostly posture based boss, so if you can nail his patterns and your deflect timings, alot of the work is already done
-be aware of this two red attacks (the poke and the swipe) as he tends alternate between them, especially on his last phase. I highlight these two because if you can counter them, they're some of the most reliable spots to get in damage, especially with double ichimochi.
- try to dodge his arrows rather than deflect, as they eat up posture and he loves to follow them up with slashes.
- be prepared to run alot in 2nd phase and maintain distance when healing as his red lunge covers massive distance. This move in particular can bring alot of anxiety in the fight, especially when trying to get your footing
Thanks for the tips, just beat him first try after reading this!
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,065
UK
Man Genichiro is beating my ass. Need some help on how to continue. Current status:

Currently stuck at Genichiro. I've beaten the iron knight at the temple and the sniper dude at some swamp place in the Depths.

Is Genichiro the next step, or can I continue with the temple without messing some of the endings up?
You can continue in both directions without messing up any endings and if you're finding Genichiro a bit tough it's worth continuing exploring to get more memories and prayer beads before facing him. Both paths will come to an obvious block where nothing else can be done until you face Genichiro to advance the story. The endings aren't affected by anything you can do before fighting him.

Edit - well congrats on beating him any way! :)
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,823
dont know about how endings are effected, but I'll say what worked for me:

-mostly posture based boss, so if you can nail his patterns and your deflect timings, alot of the work is already done
-be aware of this two red attacks (the poke and the swipe) as he tends alternate between them, especially on his last phase. I highlight these two because if you can counter them, they're some of the most reliable spots to get in damage, especially with double ichimochi.
- try to dodge his arrows rather than deflect, as they eat up posture and he loves to follow them up with slashes.
- be prepared to run alot in 2nd phase and maintain distance when healing as his red lunge covers massive distance. This move in particular can bring alot of anxiety in the fight, especially when trying to get your footing



His lunges when you heal are really good counter opportunities. I actually prefer triggering them as long as you have a decent amount of distance, because you should have time to get the heal in and mikiri or heal and dodge and then attack if you aren't great with mikiris.


On the whole I probably was more stuck on Genichiro than anywhere else in my playthrough. I mean there are more difficult bosses, but relative to your skill set at the time he may be the toughest for many players. He teaches you how to play the game in many ways. Very much like Father G in Bloodborne.
 
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Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
Getting better against the final boss
can get to the 3rd phase with some ease mostly, but the fact he has such range with the spear and gun is totally not fun, I know to use the umbrella to block his jumping leap but it then than that he fucks me up

His overhead leap attack should be easy to dodge, or deflect. And you can also deflect his swipe as he jumps away, or dash forward to hit him as you close the distance. If you stay just outside his spear range (but not far enought that he'll shoot you) you can bait him into doing his thrust which is very easy to mikiri and also puts you in a great position for more damage. That mikiri does huge posture damage, and he doesn't have a ton of posture to begin with.

This is the hardest phase, by the way. Once you get to the final phase you're pretty much done since it's much easier.
 

Shevek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,530
Cape Town, South Africa
So I just returned to Ashina Castle after Mibu Village and the difficulty has been turned to 11. I'm not managing with all the red guard and ninja mobs the game is throwing at me (still at the entrance and on the rooftops).

Do I just suck or is there a tactic here that I'm not employing?
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
So I just returned to Ashina Castle after Mibu Village and the difficulty has been turned to 11. I'm not managing with all the red guard and ninja mobs the game is throwing at me (still at the entrance and on the rooftops).

Do I just suck or is there a tactic here that I'm not employing?
I'd say maybe use your Ninjutsu more, but this part is indeed pretty hard, you're not doing anything wrong, necessarily.
 

Metroidfan09

Member
Jan 10, 2019
408
England
His overhead leap attack should be easy to dodge, or deflect. And you can also deflect his swipe as he jumps away, or dash forward to hit him as you close the distance. If you stay just outside his spear range (but not far enought that he'll shoot you) you can bait him into doing his thrust which is very easy to mikiri and also puts you in a great position for more damage. That mikiri does huge posture damage, and he doesn't have a ton of posture to begin with.

This is the hardest phase, by the way. Once you get to the final phase you're pretty much done since it's much easier.

I got to the final phase but
fucking bottled it, overthought everything even though it was the same phase but with easy reflex lightning 😂 got into the habit of rolling when he leaps instantly but then seeing it was lightning and fucking bottling it....
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
I got to the final phase but
fucking bottled it, overthought everything even though it was the same phase but with easy reflex lightning 😂 got into the habit of rolling when he leaps instantly but then seeing it was lightning and fucking bottling it....

Just be mindful of the Kanji when he does the Lightning attack animation. You should have plenty of time to jump; in fact the hardest thing about bouncing the lightning back at him is not jumping too early (since you won't have enough time to R1 the lightning). You can practice this against the Okami warriors in Fountainhead palace, not far from the Divine Dragon Idol.

Shock him a couple of times and he's good as dead. It deals a ton of Vitality and posture damage to him.

So I just returned to Ashina Castle after Mibu Village and the difficulty has been turned to 11. I'm not managing with all the red guard and ninja mobs the game is throwing at me (still at the entrance and on the rooftops).

Do I just suck or is there a tactic here that I'm not employing?

Just use Gachiin's sugar if the Lone Shadow Ninjas are giving you trouble. Should let you sneak to the Castle Antechamber idol basically unnoticed.
 

Metroidfan09

Member
Jan 10, 2019
408
England
Just be mindful of the Kanji when he does the Lightning attack animation. You should have plenty of time to jump; in fact the hardest thing about bouncing the lightning back at him is not jumping too early (since you won't have enough time to R1 the lightning).

Shock him a couple of times and he's good as dead. It deals a ton of Vitality and posture damage to him.


Im sure its when the kanji is disappearing, jump and press r1 and then once you hit the ground hit r1 to throw at him? Done this with the dragon boss but it seemed way easier and waaaaay less pressure to do so
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,823
So I just returned to Ashina Castle after Mibu Village and the difficulty has been turned to 11. I'm not managing with all the red guard and ninja mobs the game is throwing at me (still at the entrance and on the rooftops).

Do I just suck or is there a tactic here that I'm not employing?


It is harder in terms of normal grunt enemies, but you don't necessarily have to engage every enemy. Use all your tricks too, you can use backstab and turn them against one another or use the cloud for multiple backstabs, take more of a stealth approach, try to get it down to one enemy at a time, finger whistle prosthetic, etc.
 

shinespark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
728
Finally finished up my charmless run and I really enjoyed it! To the point that I probably won't ever play the game with the charm again. The stat buffs mean that some enemies get maybe a little too tanky, and the chip damage ultimately isn't incredibly consequential, but I really appreciate how the mode forces you to maintain pressure and commit to deflecting. Especially during the tougher boss fights, it really sells the idea of a desperate, locked clash of swords, where total victory is the only chance of escape.

I started noticing more problems with the camera this run though, and I think the issue is just that Sekiro's playstyle of always getting right in the enemy's face ends up pushing the fight into corners and walls a lot of the time. When that happens in Dark Souls you can back off and recenter the fight in the middle of the arena, but doing that in Sekiro means sacrificing a ton of the posture damage you've inflicted while you wait for the enemy to pursue. Maybe for Sekiro 2 they could give more advanced enemies and bosses Street Fighter-style wall jumps to let them escape from spots the camera can't handle and reset fights to neutral.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
How the hell do you beat Lord God Sword Saint??

Tomoe Lauren gets spammed with Mortal Draw and I kill him under a minute.

Sword Saint I can only beat phase 1, by phase 2 I am tapped out on recovery items.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
Uploaded my fight with Demon of Hatred, NG ++ with Demon Bell. It's a fun fight this time around, still challenging, but he went down easier having already beat him once before. There are some things I could have done to make it go quicker, but I got into a nice rhythm so I didn't want to disturb it. I kind of screwed up a little bit near the end though, trying to force Malcontent at the wrong time.

 

Deleted member 32561

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AndrewGPK Thanks for the tips. Didn't even consider some of them, definitely seems a bit more doable.

Chopchop Yeah, until I found a really good grinding spot I basically didn't use emblems at all. Too costly for a resource not as easily replenishable. After that though I basically used them on everything.
 

Soupbones

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,278
I know Genichiro is suppose to be a pain in the ass, but Jesus Christmas!

Absolutely love this game - but I think I'm running out of places to explore before facing the inevitable death cycle known as Genechiro 😩
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
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3,831
Which grinding spot?
The creepy old village. A couple of run throughs from the creek to right before the first Taro troop nets enough seen for a good number of emblems at the pre-Genichiro 1 cost.
Then from the stairs idol right before where the first ogre was to the gate you'd have to go through to get to it. It's even better if you can get rid of the miniboss around there because it allows for a bigger net of enemies per farm by going up to the bridge, but honestly just killing the same 5 guys from the idol to right before the open gate over and over is decent too.

To be clear my emblem issue wasn't "I don't have enough" at this point. It's that they get spent too quickly in a single life for a four-phase battle, even considering 15 extra from the CT.
Again, though, I agree that prior to that grinding spot I barely if ever used tools.
 

kid_zomb

Creative Director, Supergiant Games
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
21
Mill Valley, CA
I joked about wanting to post something here in another thread but I'm just going to do it. Nothing substantive, just to say Sekiro is my favorite game in a while. I haven't stopped thinking about it since finishing it and it's been a few weeks. So many times in the game it felt impossible to me but I kept finding a way to scrape by. I chickened out on some optional fights, which I still think I should come back to, and keep wondering how NG+ will go. Playing through it made me return to Dark Souls 2 and 3, Bloodborne, and Ashen, just to compare and contrast.

I really like the choice of making the game about a specific character and grew very attached to Wolf and the other characters, more so than in Souls games. I was blown away by both the quality and quantity of unique character animations for all the different bosses and whatnot, and some of the environments were amazing too. I played with English VO and thought that was surprisingly good as well (though From's English VO has been great for years). I'm really looking forward to seeing where From goes from here.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
The creepy old village. A couple of run throughs from the creek to right before the first Taro troop nets enough seen for a good number of emblems at the pre-Genichiro 1 cost.
Then from the stairs idol right before where the first ogre was to the gate you'd have to go through to get to it. It's even better if you can get rid of the miniboss around there because it allows for a bigger net of enemies per farm by going up to the bridge, but honestly just killing the same 5 guys from the idol to right before the open gate over and over is decent too.

To be clear my emblem issue wasn't "I don't have enough" at this point. It's that they get spent too quickly in a single life for a four-phase battle, even considering 15 extra from the CT.
Again, though, I agree that prior to that grinding spot I barely if ever used tools.
Thanks, I'll check out those places before I finish my run and start ng+.
 

Bersi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
876
I joked about wanting to post something here in another thread but I'm just going to do it. Nothing substantive, just to say Sekiro is my favorite game in a while. I haven't stopped thinking about it since finishing it and it's been a few weeks. So many times in the game it felt impossible to me but I kept finding a way to scrape by. I chickened out on some optional fights, which I still think I should come back to, and keep wondering how NG+ will go. Playing through it made me return to Dark Souls 2 and 3, Bloodborne, and Ashen, just to compare and contrast.

I really like the choice of making the game about a specific character and grew very attached to Wolf and the other characters, more so than in Souls games. I was blown away by both the quality and quantity of unique character animations for all the different bosses and whatnot, and some of the environments were amazing too. I played with English VO and thought that was surprisingly good as well (though From's English VO has been great for years). I'm really looking forward to seeing where From goes from here.
It's From best work since Dark Souls and it's not even close for me, i really hope that the rumored game that will be showned at E3 is going to be a new IP, they clearly are at their best when they have the freedrom to do whatever they want.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
It's From best work since Dark Souls and it's not even close for me, i really hope that the rumored game that will be showned at E3 is going to be a new IP, they clearly are at their best when they have the freedrom to do whatever they want.
Agreed. From is at their best when making new stuff. Let's go new IP (and Sekiro DLC)
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
I joked about wanting to post something here in another thread but I'm just going to do it. Nothing substantive, just to say Sekiro is my favorite game in a while. I haven't stopped thinking about it since finishing it and it's been a few weeks. So many times in the game it felt impossible to me but I kept finding a way to scrape by. I chickened out on some optional fights, which I still think I should come back to, and keep wondering how NG+ will go. Playing through it made me return to Dark Souls 2 and 3, Bloodborne, and Ashen, just to compare and contrast.

I really like the choice of making the game about a specific character and grew very attached to Wolf and the other characters, more so than in Souls games. I was blown away by both the quality and quantity of unique character animations for all the different bosses and whatnot, and some of the environments were amazing too. I played with English VO and thought that was surprisingly good as well (though From's English VO has been great for years). I'm really looking forward to seeing where From goes from here.

Glad to have you here, I always appreciate seeing game devs' thoughts on other games.

You should return Kuro's Charm whenever you get back to NG+. It makes the game harder, but you can get it back and return to default difficulty later if you want, but returning it just changes the NG+ experience in such a substantial way, it's in my opinion their best NG+ by far because of that, it's amazing how with the flip of a switch, suddenly the learning curve continues well into NG+, you keep improving instead of just overpowering foes.

Also a good excuse to try the japanese VO. :P

I'm deeply in love with this game, and it's funny because I'm just a very negative person, I guess, because I really wasn't feeling it that much at first, my initial impressions were "well, at least it's better than Dark Souls II, I guess", and now I'm even questioning if Bloodborne is still my favorite.

Bloodborne has Orphan, though...

Hmmm, we can fix that!

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