Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice |OT2| Domo Arigato, Mr. ROBERTOOOOO!!!

MilkBeard · May 14, 2019

After having played both of the Owl fights a few times, and analyzing them with videos, I say I have to prefer the one at Ashina Castle. It just feels more tight, the arena is more interesting with the view (in my opinion), especially with the volumetric fog in the light when he makes the smoke. Also, round 2 of Hirata fight feels too predictable with the way he cycles those special attacks. Music is cool in both but I think I prefer the Ashina version here too, also because the musical change in round 2.

Still both fights are some of the best in the game. This time around they're honestly not that hard; I actually find True Monk to be harder than either of those fights (probably because it has 3 rounds).

Dervius · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
After having played both of the Owl fights a few times, and analyzing them with videos, I say I have to prefer the one at Ashina Castle. It just feels more tight, the arena is more interesting with the view (in my opinion), especially with the volumetric fog in the light when he makes the smoke. Also, round 2 of Hirata fight feels too predictable with the way he cycles those special attacks. Music is cool in both but I think I prefer the Ashina version here too, also because the musical change in round 2.

Still both fights are some of the best in the game. This time around they're honestly not that hard; I actually find True Monk to be harder than either of those fights (probably because it has 3 rounds).

I agree I think. The arena for the 2nd fight is probably the decider for me. The camera becomes an issue, and the tight but open arena of the first makes it more intense IMO.

True Monk gave me quite a lot of trouble, I had no idea about the freaking deathblow methods that were around for the first phases, I just slogged through every time. I could flawless the first one or two phases, but the rapid sweeps in phase three wrecked me.

Red Liquorice · May 14, 2019

It's the pillars, they're a nuisance.

Necron · May 14, 2019

Kamek said:
Didn't have trouble with any boss after ashina seven Spears (first one) but demon of hatred is intense :(

If it's too difficult and unenjoyable, there's a method to cheese this fight. Not sure if it works still on current patch. It requires precision jumping, though.

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
After having played both of the Owl fights a few times, and analyzing them with videos, I say I have to prefer the one at Ashina Castle. It just feels more tight, the arena is more interesting with the view (in my opinion), especially with the volumetric fog in the light when he makes the smoke. Also, round 2 of Hirata fight feels too predictable with the way he cycles those special attacks. Music is cool in both but I think I prefer the Ashina version here too, also because the musical change in round 2.

Still both fights are some of the best in the game. This time around they're honestly not that hard; I actually find True Monk to be harder than either of those fights (probably because it has 3 rounds).

Agreed, I like the first one a lot more. The only issue was that it was a tad too easy on NG, but on NG+ and NG+3 I even found it harder than the second one.

Red Liquorice said:
It's the pillars, they're a nuisance.

AI AI AI AAAAAIIIIIIIIIIII

AndrewGPK · May 14, 2019

Red Liquorice said:
Fulminated Mercury drop rate is quite good on the Outskirts Stairway farm route. Before that I would grind the Gun Fort too if I wanted some earlier game.

Yes, if you start from that idol, grapple to the watch tower (backstab), drop down (backstab), run through gate (backstab), then take out the 2 guys walking up the steps as a farming run you will get all the FM you could want.

AndrewGPK · May 14, 2019

Working on Shura ending in NG+. I have Emma and IA Phase 1 pretty well down. Strategies for third phase? I've gotten him down to about half health a few times. I'm using firecrackers to try and prevent when he sets the ground on fire, but sometimes I'm too far away and don't know what to do when he lights it up. Other tips?

Dervius · May 14, 2019

AndrewGPK said:
Working on Shura ending in NG+. I have Emma and IA Phase 1 pretty well down. Strategies for third phase? I've gotten him down to about half health a few times. I'm using firecrackers to try and prevent when he sets the ground on fire, but sometimes I'm too far away and don't know what to do when he lights it up. Other tips?

There are safe spots on the ground between the flames, you can normally wait it out safely, just be prepared for his follow up.

General tip, the flame shield can be useful, but in general many of his longer wind up attacks which have flame can be simply ran around netting you some good damage to his back.

I did Shura ending on NG+3 and it was exceptionally hard so I sympathise. I managed to get him in a similar pattern to his first phase to build up posture then followed up with side swipes when he was winding up his flame attacks. I didn;t even use the firecrackers.

MCD · May 14, 2019

AndrewGPK said:
Working on Shura ending in NG+. I have Emma and IA Phase 1 pretty well down. Strategies for third phase? I've gotten him down to about half health a few times. I'm using firecrackers to try and prevent when he sets the ground on fire, but sometimes I'm too far away and don't know what to do when he lights it up. Other tips?

I don't remember much but I do remember to watch the ground to not step on the firey areas and deflect every continuous slash he did once he charges straight at you instead of running away from him.

hanmik · May 14, 2019

AndrewGPK said:
Yes, if you start from that idol, grapple to the watch tower (backstab), drop down (backstab), run through gate (backstab), then take out the 2 guys walking up the steps as a farming run you will get all the FM you could want.

if you have the right tools it is much easier..

clay_ghost · May 14, 2019

I can't beat the final boss. I used out all my sticky rice on Owl father so i only have snow lol. I basically cheated in that fight with all the healing items :P

Any cheese tips? I looked and tried all the guides but i am at my limit, does not help that i spent like hours trying to kill Owl father before.

Edit

i got worst with every attempt lol, can't even beat stage one of the fight without using most of my heals now.....

hanmik · May 14, 2019

clay_ghost said:
I can't beat the final boss. I used out all my sticky rice on Owl father so i only have snow lol. I basically cheated in that fight with all the healing items :P

Any cheese tips? I looked and tried all the guides but i am at my limit, does not help that i spent like hours trying to kill Owl father before.

Will give up if i can't beat it with another few tries, great game have my fill of it haha

try this... (don't mind the stupid memes, the guide is pretty good)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbGbdNQ_Hk4

MCD · May 14, 2019

clay_ghost said:
I can't beat the final boss. I used out all my sticky rice on Owl father so i only have snow lol. I basically cheated in that fight with all the healing items :P

Any cheese tips? I looked and tried all the guides but i am at my limit, does not help that i spent like hours trying to kill Owl father before.

Will give up if i can't beat it with another few tries, great game have my fill of it haha

Don't cheese. Face him straight forward.

Here is a tip to you: don't worry about losing. Go and pretend he is a normal mob fight. I want you to stick close to him at all times like a glue. Don't worry about taking damage or dying. Just learn his moves and process. As long as you stick close to him and deflect/move to the side when he does the wind charge up attacks and only do one or two slashes and don't be greedy, I guarantee you will take him down easily.

Last phase is easier since sticking close means he will jump and do the thunder attack which you can counter easily with jump + attack.

clay_ghost · May 14, 2019

All right guys. Thanks for the tips, will try again this week :D

MegaSackman · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
EpicNameBro is going to start streaming on Twitch soon today to talk about Sekiro lore, if anyone wants to hear. He hasn't really been making YT videos much anymore, so this is what it's going to be for anyone waiting for it.

He uploaded a bunch of videos talking about lore on YouTube. I just received the strategy guide so my interest peaked again lol, I'll watch the videos along the week.

Noema · May 14, 2019

Red Liquorice said:
It's the pillars, they're a nuisance.

Though they are also useful if you need to pop a quick heal or bite a fresh sugar.

I love both of the fights, but the music in the second phase in Ashina is probably my favorite piece of music in the game (which has excellent music overall).

Necron · May 14, 2019

TransEuropaExpress said:
Came back after weeks of not touching the game while beating The Surge in between and finally beat Demon Of Hatred. It wasn't fun or exciting, just felt relieved I can cross that nagging gaming chore off my list and shelf the game for now.

Tried the last boss and realized I had to repeat the first...part...every fucking time and I'm out for good. NG+ sounds uneventful so I'm not going to torture myself with yet another boss.

With a few weeks away from it I realize the game was simply too fucking hard for me to be fully enjoyable. I think it's great in theory and I loved my time exploring and the basic combat but the bosses, and mini-bosses, were too incessantly crushing for me to ever push myself through it again. I don't know what tips the scale for me but somehow Sekiro is the first From game where I consider the difficulty unpleasant and not simply a challenge in retrospect.

I need a fucking walking sim after this, ERA...

If you have a PSVR, Déraciné is a peaceful experience. Planning a replay after Sekiro.

clay_ghost said:
All right guys. Thanks for the tips, will try again this week :D

Take your time and remain calm. I just beat Owl as well and also still can't get the last fight down. There's a lot of videos on this notoriously difficult fight. I will also train some more this week. Eventually we'll persevere ;)

MilkBeard · May 14, 2019

MegaSackman said:
He uploaded a bunch of videos talking about lore on YouTube. I just received the strategy guide so my interest peaked again lol, I'll watch the videos along the week.

Yeah, he decided to upload those Twitch streams to Youtube as the lore walkthrough. I'm waiting to see if he does the next Sekiro stream today.

I also have the Future Press guide coming soon; can't wait.

Chopchop · May 14, 2019

clay_ghost said:
I can't beat the final boss. I used out all my sticky rice on Owl father so i only have snow lol. I basically cheated in that fight with all the healing items :P

Any cheese tips? I looked and tried all the guides but i am at my limit, does not help that i spent like hours trying to kill Owl father before.

Edit

i got worst with every attempt lol, can't even beat stage one of the fight without using most of my heals now.....

It sounds like you're kinda burned out from the previous boss you beat. You might want to take a break before coming back to fight this one. He's arguably the hardest boss in the game, so he's going to take some time to beat.

If you do want to stick with him though, think of him as a sort of super-Genichiro. He's very strong and has a much more varied moveset, but the underlying ideas are the same. Try to parry as much as you can, and don't worry much about his health. Getting his posture bar down is much more important, and in order to do that, you need to make sure you're crossing swords as often as possible.

As for the first phase, I found that I did worse there if I was trying to rush the boss fight to get to the rest of it. I made more mistakes because I underestimated that phase, and died for it. There was even one death where I died to nothing but arrows lol.

Don't get greedy and treat the first phase with just as much respect as you would the rest of the boss fight.

MilkBeard · May 14, 2019

Noema said:
Though they are also useful if you need to pop a quick heal or bite a fresh sugar.

I love both of the fights, but the music in the second phase in Ashina is probably my favorite piece of music in the game (which has excellent music overall).

yeah, this time around I realized just how good the music is for that particular fight. I love the music change and the way it sounds. Probably the best piece in the game.

Noema · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
yeah, this time around I realized just how good the music is for that particular fight. I love the music change and the way it sounds. Probably the best piece in the game.

I also love how the same theme plays in both fights. In the Ashina fight, the music is energetic, intense and blood pumping. In the other fight, it's mellow, slower and poignant.

Yuka Kitamura absolutely knocked it out of the park.

ghibli99 · May 14, 2019

After not feeling like a half dozen games over the past month, I hopped back into this (I think I'm in NG+3 or 4 now). Still early on, and the music during headless fights still makes me feel really uneasy.

brjuntinaar · May 14, 2019

AndrewGPK said:
Working on Shura ending in NG+. I have Emma and IA Phase 1 pretty well down. Strategies for third phase? I've gotten him down to about half health a few times. I'm using firecrackers to try and prevent when he sets the ground on fire, but sometimes I'm too far away and don't know what to do when he lights it up. Other tips?

Get in a safe spot for the fire, and use the feather as soon as he's about to stab you through it. It will put you outside of his attack radius, and you can then follow up with several hits on him while he goes through the entire thousand blades (whatever it's called) attack animation.

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

ghibli99 said:
After not feeling like a half dozen games over the past month, I hopped back into this (I think I'm in NG+3 or 4 now). Still early on, and the music during headless fights still makes me feel really uneasy.

SO GOOD

MilkBeard · May 14, 2019

Apparently a current theory is that Jinzaemon is

O'rin and Sakuza's son.

Part of it, explained by ENB, is looking at the Japanese original where she says "child" instead of "man" (translated poorly in English). Then the item he gives points to this as well. This makes quite a bit of sense. But even in the awkward English version, it still points to someone other than Wolf, which obviously leads to the other character nearby.

AndrewGPK · May 14, 2019

clay_ghost said:
All right guys. Thanks for the tips, will try again this week :D

Final Boss Strategy:

Run around Genichiro's left side (your right) to his back as soon as the fight starts to avoid the mortal blade and attack. Otherwise fight him as usual looking to build up posture. Dodge to the side if he gets the mortal blade attack again, but if you stay on him he probably won't

In ISS's first phase whenever he sheaths his sword, immediately run around his back on his right side (your left). He usually does the Ashina Cross and he'll be open to an attack. This also tends to help avoid the guess work if you're trying to figure out if a thrust or swipe kanji attack is coming. Otherwise stay on him and try to build up posture.

I recommend you best umbrella for all of his phases by the way. His wind attacks can all be blocked with this, with a possible counter. Avoids the need to run away.

On 2nd phase try to get comfortable deflecting his attacks from about the length of the reach of his lance (and they are alot so it can be rapid and timed with his lance swings). What you are looking for is the red kanji attack where it swings behind his head. This is a big mikiri counter opportunity - mikiri when you see the lance come just around the back of his head on his left side (your right). If you get low on health or staggered run across the arena and heal. Putting distance will usually trigger his leaping lance attack so dodge that and then hit. And actually this is how he can be cheesed. Some just run around the arena in a circle to trigger this and attack. This takes forever and you can fall off the ledge so I don't recommend it, I recommend it more as a strategy for when you need to heal, otherwise building up posture with the deflections and mikiri is a better strategy.

3rd phase is same strategy as 2nd he's just going to do the lightening attacks, so jump and spam r1 to reverse it and this opens him up big time and can make this the easiest phase if you get okay with the lightening reversals.

DmckPower · May 14, 2019

I think the depth and replayability come directly from the combat in this game.

Its just insanely fun and rewarding to go back to the enemies and fine tune your gameplay/better understand how to deal with them.

The game structure is also super elegant and tight with very little(almost too little) fat.4th consecutive playthroufh here,I am not the type that replays games.

ghibli99 · May 14, 2019

Gbraga said:
SO GOOD

Reading comments, how the heck did I not know that Noriyuki Asakura (Kenshin, Tenchu, etc.) was one of the composers? No wonder!

Jingo · May 14, 2019

so, can we talk about possible future dlc?

how would that work? if its a prequel, the prosthetic arm wont be there right? at least not with the same character, it would be fun to see what they would use as a replacement.

If its after the story, it could possible go to

when the child of the rejuvenating water takes the devine child to the dragons birth place

what do you think?

MilkBeard · May 14, 2019

Jingo said:
so, can we talk about possible future dlc?

how would that work? if its a prequel, the prosthetic arm wont be there right? at least not with the same character, it would be fun to see what they would use as a replacement.

If its after the story, it could possible go to

when the child of the rejuvenating water takes the devine child to the dragons birth place

what do you think?

If it's a prequel, they can just set it up like the Hirata memories, where Sekiro goes into the past with his current state.

ghibli99 · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
If it's a prequel, they can just set it up like the Hirata memories, where Sekiro goes into it with his current state.

This is what I'm thinking as well. Hoping we get some more visually fantastic locations like Fountainhead.

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
Apparently a current theory is that Jinzaemon is

O'rin and Sakuza's son.

Part of it, explained by ENB, is looking at the Japanese original where she says "child" instead of "man" (translated poorly in English). Then the item he gives points to this as well. This makes quite a bit of sense. But even in the awkward English version, it still points to someone other than Wolf, which obviously leads to the other character nearby.

That's my interpretation of it as well.

O'Rin would be an Ubume, a supernatural entity born when a woman dies at childbirth. Jinza's dialogue also mention that his father warned him to not go there, which points to Sakuza already knowing an Ubume would be born from that event.

Ubume stories even often end with her giving the baby to someone to hold, only for that person to realize that baby is actually a Jizo statue.

The fact that Jinzaemon can hear the song so far away also implies a much deeper connection.

I don't think the translated version points to anyone other than Jinza, though, as that dialogue doesn't play if you kill her without doing his quest. But I agree that it's weird to translate あの子 as "that man", even talked about it on Reddit a few days ago in that localization thread.

Jingo · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
If it's a prequel, they can just set it up like the Hirata memories, where Sekiro goes into the past with his current state.

now that i think about it, the sculptor is not a bad option, he was a shinobi, used the prosthetic arm, got his hand cut off by Isshin, rescued Emma, so many options.

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

ghibli99 said:
Reading comments, how the heck did I not know that Noriyuki Asakura (Kenshin, Tenchu, etc.) was one of the composers? No wonder!

Wait, really? I'm pretty sure only Kitamura is listed as "Composer" in the credits. There are three other names, IIRC, as "Arrangements", though.

ghibli99 · May 14, 2019

Gbraga said:
Wait, really? I'm pretty sure only Kitamura is listed as "Composer" in the credits. There are three other names, IIRC, as "Arrangements", though.

Yeah, I think Kitamura did the lion's share, but Asakura has some contributions as well. I can't seem to find an official breakdown, but it was cool to see in any case. :)

AndrewGPK · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
If it's a prequel, they can just set it up like the Hirata memories, where Sekiro goes into the past with his current state.

Seems like something with Lady Tomoe as the main boss would make sense. Hope you won't have replay half or most of the game to get to it like they did with Bloodborne (I was fortunate enough to play that on one playthrough as the DLC was already available).

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

ghibli99 said:
Yeah, I think Kitamura did the lion's share, but Asakura has some contributions as well. I can't seem to find an official breakdown, but it was cool to see in any case. :)

Yeah, it is really cool! Can't believe I missed it while actually reading the credits, haha.

Kitamura did mention they had an outside composer again this time, like in Bloodborne, but they never mentioned it again after the Game Informer interview.

I wish we had a breakdown. :(

Deleted member 16609 · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
If it's a prequel, they can just set it up like the Hirata memories, where Sekiro goes into the past with his current state.

If they go with the past, I would like to play with Emma. She is fascinating as a character.

And strong as hell too.

gaugebozo · May 14, 2019

Gbraga said:
That's my interpretation of it as well.

O'Rin would be an Ubume, a supernatural entity born when a woman dies at childbirth. Jinza's dialogue also mention that his father warned him to not go there, which points to Sakuza already knowing an Ubume would be born from that event.

Ubume stories even often end with her giving the baby to someone to hold, only for that person to realize that baby is actually a Jizo statue.

The fact that Jinzaemon can hear the song so far away also implies a much deeper connection.

I don't think the translated version points to anyone other than Jinza, though, as that dialogue doesn't play if you kill her without doing his quest. But I agree that it's weird to translate あの子 as "that man", even talked about it on Reddit a few days ago in that localization thread.

Thanks for this! I was so curious I went through the whole wikipedia list of yokai hoping to find something similar. Easily my favorite sidequest, and it's so short.

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

gaugebozo said:
Thanks for this! I was so curious I went through the whole wikipedia list of yokai hoping to find something similar. Easily my favorite sidequest, and it's so short.

I swear, there's a yokai for everything! It was actually the last part of my interpretation to come together, I just googled to see if there was any supernatural entity in japanese mythology that fit with that theory, and not only there was, but the story even fit with the quest reward. Pretty neat.

Metroidfan09 · May 14, 2019

I think I'm right near the end,

]just beat the carp and dragon, is Demon necessary before the final boss?

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

Metroidfan09 said:
I think I'm right near the end, just beat the carp and dragon, is Demon necessary before the final boss?

Nope, completely optional and can be done after credits.

Kamek · May 14, 2019

Necron said:
If it's too difficult and unenjoyable, there's a method to cheese this fight. Not sure if it works still on current patch. It requires precision jumping, though.

I gotta best him fair and square. Every other boss seemed to have a sword and was pretty easy to deflect, party, mikri, etc. Doh seems so long and drawn out and I seem to only be parrying very few moves.

Morrigan · May 14, 2019

KunaiDrilla said:
If they go with the past, I would like to play with Emma. She is fascinating as a character.

And strong as hell too.

She'd be dope, but... no shinobi arm to climb everywhere :(

MilkBeard · May 14, 2019

I'm really curious of the lore behind

the Divine Dragon missing its left arm.

This is a theme, along with Sekiro and Sculptor. I'm also interested for them to go deeper into the lore of where the dragon came from. When you fight it,

I'm pretty sure you don't actually kill it, but just use the mortal blade to get the tears. Even as you take them, the Divine Dragon still seems to be moving like it's alive, just wounded, and of course it's called the "gracious gift". And the memory states that its body is eternal. Of course, you are handicapping it further. Perhaps a previous attempt resulted in the loss of its arm.

Kamek · May 14, 2019

Fams i need some DoH tips. This is the weirdest boss in the game so far. Everyone else I was essentially easily able to kill from deflecting.

Noema · May 14, 2019

Kamek said:
Fams i need some DoH tips. This is the weirdest boss in the game so far. Everyone else I was essentially easily able to kill from deflecting.

Have you tried the Malconent ring? It really helps since it basically allows you to skip one phase (preferably the last) if you hit him hard enough while he's stunned. I used Yashariku's sugar for maximum damage while he was stunned. You'll just melt his health bar away. You can do like 25% per stun with Yashariku's + Confetti. He should be at like 30% vitality by the time the Malcontent stops working (you can only use it 3 times), with his posture bar almost full, as well.

When running towards him, always run to his left (your right) since his left-hand attacks are slower and it'll be harder for him to hit you.

You can deflect his multiple swipes from a distance, though it's also possible to just do hit and runs to his legs (watch out for the stomps, which you can deflect for some pretty good posture damage though).

If he jumps vertically while you are under him, run away as far as possible and grapple back and hit him. If he does his charge perilous attack, then just do a vertical jump and run to punish him. Keep your distance to avoid the medium range fire attacks and then close the distance again when he does the overhead attack (he'll do two horizontal swipes and then the overhead) which has a longer recovery.

If he does his fireball barrage just run towards him while also strafing left or right to avoid the fireballs.

If he does the fire blast with the perilous attack, jump to the side and then use the grapple point to punish him.

Just be patient, don't get greedy while you hack at his legs, use sugars and the red gourd and save the malconent for the last phase.

Deleted member 41520 · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
I'm really curious of the lore behind

the Divine Dragon missing its left arm.

This is a theme, along with Sekiro and Sculptor. I'm also interested for them to go deeper into the lore of where the dragon came from. When you fight it,

I'm pretty sure you don't actually kill it, but just use the mortal blade to get the tears. Even as you take them, the Divine Dragon still seems to be moving like it's alive, just wounded, and of course it's called the "gracious gift". And the memory states that its body is eternal. Of course, you are handicapping it further. Perhaps a previous attempt resulted in the loss of its arm.

Regarding where it came from,

A couple of times it's mentioned that the divine essence came from the West, and it's thought that much of Sekiro's lore has its roots in Chinese mythology. The divine essence or whatever apparently came over and "corrupted" the dragon.

Jencks · May 14, 2019

Made it to the final boss. Tried 3 times and couldn't even get past the first part.

Will probably spend tomorrow grinding it out to learn the moveset, which I can't say I'm looking forward to but eh I've already come this far.

Deleted member 679 · May 14, 2019

MilkBeard said:
I'm really curious of the lore behind

the Divine Dragon missing its left arm.

This is a theme, along with Sekiro and Sculptor. I'm also interested for them to go deeper into the lore of where the dragon came from. When you fight it,

I'm pretty sure you don't actually kill it, but just use the mortal blade to get the tears. Even as you take them, the Divine Dragon still seems to be moving like it's alive, just wounded, and of course it's called the "gracious gift". And the memory states that its body is eternal. Of course, you are handicapping it further. Perhaps a previous attempt resulted in the loss of its arm.

The Dragon seems to be one with the tree, and it is said that Takeru took a branch from the tree in the Divine Realm as a parting gift. I believe that branch (that gave birth to the Everblossom in Ashina Castle) is the missing arm.

About a possible previous attempt, I've only noticed during my last playthrough that the Dragon has his right eye closed throughout the entire fight. So maybe there was a previous successful attempt:

I love how the Dragon seems to be intrinsically tied to the events happening in Ashina. This game is so damn beautiful.

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice |OT2| Domo Arigato, Mr. ROBERTOOOOO!!!

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