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mhayes86

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,249
Maryland
Thanks, I would have never guessed the solution to 1. It's nice to know that this is a legit ability that goes towards puzzle solving and not only crowd control.

Regarding 2. -
I have to go through Ashina Depths? That's were I just decided to not push further because that second guardian ape phase with 2 guardian apes kinda pisses me off. That's mandatory though I guess - or is the second one an illusion where I can use snap-seeds on? And the second floor there with the small ape is just for another view towards the situation - not actually used for an advantage in the fight?

And lastly 3. - does it matter for the ending what I do with him? Kinda wanna mess with him, but also kinda don't.

2)
Depending on the route you take prior to Genichiro, the dual ape boss can be optional or mandatory. No, the mate is not an illusion. It has very low vitality and will back off once it gets to half, so focus on that one first. I think the small ape up top is just alluding to that area being an ape home or something.

3)
Mess with what? That boss or the ape up top? Neither have anything to do with the ending, but that boss seems to be mandatory for your progression. Come back later in the game, though.

With regards to where you learn about solution 1
One of the old women who request rice actually throws a hint about this. There's at least 3 in the game from what I remember but only two that request rice?

If I recall, there's four old ladies. One at Ashina Castle that points you towards the reservoir for the Depths, one at the hole in the dungeon that hints at jumping in the hole that actually takes you into the Depths. The two that request rice are in Sunken Valley and Senpou Temple, which hint at using Puppeteer for one of the ending questlines.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,105
So...right after our friend Chained Ogre you grapple up into a building to get over the closed gate and to your right is a hallway with a locked door. I never figured out how to open this thing on my first playthrough. How the heck do you get in there?
I was wondering the same thing! Glad you asked because I doubt I would have found the path on my own.
 

Deleted member 16136

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,196
DoH is now a piece of piss, easily beating it first time every time. Just done him in again on NG+4, patented technique is wiping the floor of him. Although I thought id give that cheese a go, but he just destroyed the tower.

Just the final ending to go, and I think about 4 skills points left to get the last skill, then that's its done achievement wise.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
Sekiro fits in this really weird space for me where I feel like it's ball-bustingly hard only when you haven't learned boss patterns and strategies, and then becomes incredibly manageable afterwards. Coming into a new boss you end up getting your face pounded in over and over and over, but unlike SoulBorne there's only a few ways to approach each. The attacks you can safely dodge and block don't change, and you can't get trapped into facing a certain boss with a build that doesn't work for it. The combat is like a really demanding game of Simon Says, but once you know how to react and how to approach each situation you can come back on NG+ and just steamroll those same motherfuckers that wrecked you the first time.
Yeah (except without the charm they do soooo much damage). It took me less time to beat Ng+1, 2, and 3 combined than my first playthrough, without skipping bosses and endeavoring to pick up every item in the game every time. The game is mostly much easier just through knowing how to play. The only boss I had trouble with on my 4th playthrough was the Shura bosses because I hadn't seen them yet, so they kicked my ass about 10 times before it clicked.
 

MickeyKnox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
589
Sekiro fits in this really weird space for me where I feel like it's ball-bustingly hard only when you haven't learned boss patterns and strategies, and then becomes incredibly manageable afterwards. Coming into a new boss you end up getting your face pounded in over and over and over, but unlike SoulBorne there's only a few ways to approach each. The attacks you can safely dodge and block don't change, and you can't get trapped into facing a certain boss with a build that doesn't work for it. The combat is like a really demanding game of Simon Says, but once you know how to react and how to approach each situation you can come back on NG+ and just steamroll those same motherfuckers that wrecked you the first time.
That's why the option to give the charm back is in there at the start of NG+, the chip damage on any non perfect parry, the increase to the the posture hit you take on parry and the decrease in posture damage you dish out changes up the fights to the point where you have to learn them all over again.
 

Black Chamber

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,811
United States
If the Sekiro DLC doesn't have a fight with a blind Samurai in a bamboo forest, I'm going to be mighty disappointed.
giphy.gif

200.gif
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,902
I got a few questions about the story

-Why does the armored guy yell Robert? Who's robert?

Robert is almost certainly the son of the Armored Guy you meet on the bridge. Both of them traveled to Japan to extend Roberts life suggesting Robert was sick. Why Japan? Because they've heard about the undying and who would help them? The Senpou Temple monks that were experimenting with children and the rejuvenating waters. The same bridge he is guarding leads to the main temple. What he doesn't know is that only one of the children survived these experiments which is the girl that gives you the mortal blade. So what happened to Robert? He was probably one of the children that lost their life during these experiments.
 

ArtVandelay

User requested permanent ban
Banned
May 29, 2018
2,309
Fucking hell.

G9R0gBx.jpg


I had much better runs, this one was incredibly messy.

I don't think I'll tackle the final boss for a while. Demon was quite draining.
 

Gevin

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,823
I got a few questions about the story

-Why does the armored guy yell Robert? Who's robert?

Did you read the description of the Firecrackers?

I was wondering the same thing! Glad you asked because I doubt I would have found the path on my own.

Go to where the headless is, leave on the other side and follow the path, you will jump to a broken wall and that's on the other side of the locked door
 
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tjlee2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,745
I wonder if Sekiro has hit the limit of how hard these games can become before excluding too many players. It certainly is very, very exhausting to play. More so than any Soulsborne game in my opinion.

But it's mostly just the bosses that give this exhausting feeling. The exploration and enemy encounter feels rather balanced and you progress with just the right amount of focus. I personally use these moments to take a breath and they are by far my most enjoyable moments. I know that the game has an obsession with trial and error, which is not usually to my liking, but so far I've decided to push on. Hopefully I will make it to the end. At the moment it feels like it's almost worthy of a tattoo for getting there. :)

Unlikely. The margin of error is still very large, and there are definitely some learning pains that will be alleviated if a future title is available, much like how the first souls game will always be the hardest subjectively.

Sekiro fits in this really weird space for me where I feel like it's ball-bustingly hard only when you haven't learned boss patterns and strategies, and then becomes incredibly manageable afterwards. Coming into a new boss you end up getting your face pounded in over and over and over, but unlike SoulBorne there's only a few ways to approach each. The attacks you can safely dodge and block don't change, and you can't get trapped into facing a certain boss with a build that doesn't work for it. The combat is like a really demanding game of Simon Says, but once you know how to react and how to approach each situation you can come back on NG+ and just steamroll those same motherfuckers that wrecked you the first time.
Yeah (except without the charm they do soooo much damage). It took me less time to beat Ng+1, 2, and 3 combined than my first playthrough, without skipping bosses and endeavoring to pick up every item in the game every time. The game is mostly much easier just through knowing how to play. The only boss I had trouble with on my 4th playthrough was the Shura bosses because I hadn't seen them yet, so they kicked my ass about 10 times before it clicked.

This really seems like the general consensus and I'm really surprised that this game is where it's so prominent. I don't believe I've read that in regards to prior Fromsoft games, even though I personally believe that has always been the case with their games (to a greater degree than other action games), which is normal when the combat design philosophy is always more heavily favoring complex enemy design over complex combat mechanic. Pattern recognition is definitely not a first in Sekiro, and I don't quite grasp what's different about it here than other titles.

My personal experience for all Fromsoft games (and honestly most action games, if that needs to be clarified) is definitely that I have knowledge of a large majority of enemy movesets after the first encounter, much like here, and they are significantly easier in all successive encounters. Different weapons or spells (this would strictly be From titles) don't make a difference either (again a result of favoring complex enemy design over complex combat mechanics), at least from my experience, because as long you know the timing of your attack in relation to window of opportunity you can identify what attacks fit what window without issue. It's rarely something to figure out in-combat, since the timing is hardly strict. I honestly thought that previous titles were more so the case (easier on successive playthroughs) because a large part of those games is against the environment, which are non-threatening once you know where the traps and, more importantly, the ambushes are(there were very few scenarios that were truly threatening).

I think of all opinions regarding the game, this is definitely the one I least identify with, in the sense that this is the game that caused the specific realization, instead of any other From title or actions games prior.

That's why the option to give the charm back is in there at the start of NG+, the chip damage on any non perfect parry, the increase to the the posture hit you take on parry and the decrease in posture damage you dish out changes up the fights to the point where you have to learn them all over again.

I think it's not so much learning the fight over again, but that you can't get by with only knowing 60-70% of the moveset, or more specifically, only knowing how to properly counter (with any of the defensive options available, including tools if one so chooses) 60-70% of the moves, and miss-deflect/interntional block the remaining percentage. If you properly learned most of the moveset already, the penalties from charmless is far less severe. If you didn't (and personally on one boss I certainly did not), it can be like you didn't know the boss at all, but that's obviously not the case. You just need to learn to deal with moves that can previously be shrugged off as inconsequential mistakes, but are now fatal.
 
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Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
Well, i did it, i beat the game!

I am now part of the Sekiro Completion Club.

Loved the game in all, thought it was awesome.

I would rather fight the last boss 50 more times than fight DoH once, omg fuck DoH, there's a reason why it's optional and it's because it's bullshit, tedious and doesn't fit the game at all.

The last boss however feels like a total showdown and it's fun to get through, it's actually pretty easy once you learn your parries.

In the last phase I lightning redirected him twice, and that was it for him after that.

I did Dragons Tears and Snow Tears ending btw.

What a great game, well, apart from that one optional boss...
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Unlikely. The margin of error is still very large, and there are definitely some learning pains that will be alleviated if a future title is available, much like how the first souls game will always be the hardest subjectively.

I just hope that they put more effort into the execution and craftsmanship, because raising the difficulty will only put more stress on those parts. If they want to raise the difficulty further they need to have a pretty much flawless camera solution, immediate movement inputs, smooth animations, proper environment detection and so on. Personally I think that the biggest drawback of Sekiro is that it tries to build its foundation too much on the games that came before it. There's still the very impractical and slow item switch system in place for instance, which does not work well with the pace of the game. A classic wheel option would've been perfect; especially concidering the new pause feature. There's also no reason for the sprint mechanic to collide with the dodge mechanic, which Nioh has shown a good example of.

This is actually the first time I'm a bit sceptical towards the future of the Soulsborne franchise. While Sekiro brings a lot of interesting new things to the table it also starts to show the limitations of Miyazaki and his team. Maybe it's related to the current technology or it's something to do with the visionary direction. Time will tell I guess.
 

tjlee2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,745
I just hope that they put more effort into the execution and craftsmanship, because raising the difficulty will only put more stress on those parts. If they want to raise the difficulty further they need to have a pretty much flawless camera solution, immediate movement inputs, smooth animations, proper environment detection and so on. Personally I think that the biggest drawback of Sekiro is that it tries to build its foundation too much on the games that came before it. There's still the very impractical and slow item switch system in place for instance, which does not work well with the pace of the game. A classic wheel option would've been perfect; especially concidering the new pause feature. There's also no reason for the sprint mechanic to collide with the dodge mechanic, which Nioh has shown a good example of.

This is actually the first time I'm a bit sceptical towards the future of the Soulsborne franchise. While Sekiro brings a lot of interesting new things to the table it also starts to show the limitations of Miyazaki and his team. Maybe it's related to the current technology or it's something to do with the visionary direction. Time will tell I guess.

Improvement can be made horizontally and not vertically. I do believe that Fromsoft has started to approach and will likely soon hit a reasonable limit on moveset size. The rest is fine-tuning. Sekiro is the first instance where a player have a ton of input as far as dictating what the enemy target does (whereas BB is a case where in some cases you can dictate that the enemy doesn't do anything), and because of that, even though most enemies have a very diverse moveset, it's comparatively easier to force certain responses. For me personally, that would be the main point of improvement in enemy design if there is a follow-up title, that they need to create proper spacing in response to the faster gameplay, having more than just posture recovery as a goal with spacing, more than one main type (not one move, but type) of counter option (spacing is currently one but not prominent and again, generally not utilized well), and various other similar small changes/details. With what they did from DS1 to BB to DS3, I'm confident that it can be done, especially since the overall moveset design philosophy is sound in my opinion.

I agree on item usage outside of menu, in that it either should be improved upon for real-time use, or implement a pause outside of need to access menu. I personally load healing and offensive/active skills, and have defensive items that are far less used accessed through menu. It's not a big deal, but Improvement that doesn't require too much work can definitely be made that should help with the flow of gameplay a bit.
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
I got a few questions about the story

-Why does the armored guy yell Robert? Who's robert?
-Why does the sculptor turn into a demon?
-Sekiro in the middle of the story brings up Emma's sword skill, but i don't remember her doing anything to show off her skills at that point
-Why doesn't Genichiro use the rejuvenating waters for his immortal army instead of trying to use Kuro's dragon powers against his will?
-Why does the owl stab Sekiro, and where was Sekiro when the invasion of the hirata estate is happening?
-Why does the armored guy yell Robert? Who's robert?
Robert is his son. Here's the description for Robert's Firecrackers, which you buy to turn into the Shinobi Firecracker prosthetic tool:
Firecrackers from across southern seas. Can be fitted to the Shinobi Prosthetic to become a Prosthetic Tool.

Makes a deafening sound, frightening to animals. Sold by little Robert and his father to raise funds for their travels.

Their voyage brought them to Japan, where they would seek the "Undying" in an attempt to extend Robert's life.
It's pretty much the only hint I'm aware of as to what's up with Armored Warrior and Robert. He's probably at Senpou seeking the rejuvenating waters for his son. Or maybe he gave his son over the monks under the promise that they'd use the waters to heal him, but he just ended up an experiment and died, and Armored Warrior refuses to believe this or is in the dark about it and got kinda maddened by his situation. Hard to say.

EDIT: Apparently the Ninth Prayer Necklace also says this:
Robert's father came from afar across seas to the south, in search of the Undying. Repelling a thousand blades was a small price for the blessing of rejuvenation...
Which I guess is really just further reinforcement, not much additional information.

-Why does the sculptor turn into a demon?
There's a lot surrounding this, but based on various interactions with characters (when sharing sake and such) you learn that the Sculptor was, at some point, being consumed by hatred, bloodlust, etc. and Isshin cut off his arm to somehow prevent him from being totally consumed (presumably so he couldn't act on his urges, not totally sure). You can talk to the old lady in the building where you find Tengu after the Gyoubu fight and she talks about how the flames of hatred from all the warring going on all eventually go somewhere, and it seems like, for whatever reason, the Sculptor is sort of the conduit for all of that. So he's basically carving Buddhas trying to stall it, but eventually once the central forces invade he gets consumed by them and turns into the Demon of Hatred.

-Sekiro in the middle of the story brings up Emma's sword skill, but i don't remember her doing anything to show off her skills at that point
I don't know that it's ever made explicit, my assumption is that she has some sort of tell, like a sense of alertness, her stance, marks on her hands, or some combination thereof that Wolf can pick up on as a warrior himself.

-Why doesn't Genichiro use the rejuvenating waters for his immortal army instead of trying to use Kuro's dragon powers against his will?
No idea, really. Maybe it's dangerous or taboo to consume the rejuvenating waters (or sediment) and so he prefers to take it upon himself to save Ashina rather than force it on his men. Maybe he only trusts himself with the power.

-Why does the owl stab Sekiro, and where was Sekiro when the invasion of the hirata estate is happening?
Well, we do find out that Owl is after Kuro's blood as part of his sole ambition to basically take over Japan (or something), so it might make sense if Wolf was trying to protect Kuro or something.

Maybe Wolf was preoccupied for similar reasons as to why the usual soldiers of Hirata Estate were. There was some sort of battle and that's why Owl arranged the invasion that night, he knew they were at their weakest. We really don't know much about what was going on with Hirata Estate, or what even the true memory is, so it's kind of curious. It's something I'm hoping lore experts out there dig more into, or maybe we'll learn more in DLC!
 
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gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,432
So...right after our friend Chained Ogre you grapple up into a building to get over the closed gate and to your right is a hallway with a locked door. I never figured out how to open this thing on my first playthrough. How the heck do you get in there?

You can jump to it by standing on the edge of the building and then double jumping off the wall to the roof of the courtyard area below and to the right as you look at the ogre. Difficult but possible, but there isn't much there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
623
Mannn, that illusion phase BS with
True Corrupted Monk
keeps getting me. Sometimes I can get past it without getting hit, but other times, it ends up killing me. What's the best way to deal with it? I've tried swinging from trees, and I've tried backing myself into a corner so the illusions can't circle me. Both are ok, but not consistent.
 

Gevin

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,823
Mannn, that illusion phase BS with
True Corrupted Monk
keeps getting me. Sometimes I can get past it without getting hit, but other times, it ends up killing me. What's the best way to deal with it? I've tried swinging from trees, and I've tried backing myself into a corner so the illusions can't circle me. Both are ok, but not consistent.

Best way is instantly cheese it and skip it.

Legit best way? no idea
 

Deleted member 16136

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,196
I really wish they would let you redo the original NG with everything you currently have. Just so you can see how much more powerful your hits have become.
 

TetraGenesis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,138
Later game Hanbei question:

I got the Mortal Blade and he's asking me to kill him. I want to oblige but I don't want to do it just yet. Can I decline, train more with him, then when I'm ready, trigger the conversation again?
 

MCD

Honest Work
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,805
Still can't do Sword Saint, I really don't wanna quit I came too far to quit.

What worked for me was breaking his posture faster with flame vent + oil + last ability in second skill tree that adds fire to your sword once you use flame vent.

Throw oil at the start of every phase. Use flame vent, double slash and he should be burned/stunned. His posture will be almost at half and you will have time to either heal/do more damage.

Good luck.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,890
No damage with 0 items, only using the spear PT - Bout 5 and half minute fight. (Nightjar as BA)




For me this is the best fight in the game, less control, requires good positioning, requires dodges/parrys/jumping/running/grapples and combinations of multiple defensive options. Ofc this can be trivialized by abusing fingers and suzaku, but assuming you give it a fair fight its a real good boss.

I'm fairly satisfied with the bosses overall for a new IP, but I dont think they even come close to the best souls/BB tier fights.
  • So many 2.0 fights is a real bummer
  • There are too many 1-1 relationships between events that take place a time t, and time t+1. Meaning alot of fights are extremely scripted
  • Most fights the best strat is to just spam R1 till a deflect, parry and repeat
  • There should be interactions with tools (Like the ape spear tech)
  • Most fights just have extreme win buttons in the form of perilous attack counters
  • Creativity that from didnt want you to do, is usually fuckin pointless (I'm lookin at you battle arts)
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,075
UK
Mannn, that illusion phase BS with
True Corrupted Monk
keeps getting me. Sometimes I can get past it without getting hit, but other times, it ends up killing me. What's the best way to deal with it? I've tried swinging from trees, and I've tried backing myself into a corner so the illusions can't circle me. Both are ok, but not consistent.
I swung around from branch to branch
but found it inconsistent too.
In the end I just cheesed the second phase. That is one of my favourite bosses in the game, but fighting it twice and the second one has 3 phases? I'm good on cheesing one of them. Far too many duplicate bosses in this game. 3 drunkards? Too much.
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
Later game Hanbei question:

I got the Mortal Blade and he's asking me to kill him. I want to oblige but I don't want to do it just yet. Can I decline, train more with him, then when I'm ready, trigger the conversation again?
You can do it whenever you want. I've never experienced a cutoff. I did it right before the last boss. I'm pretty sure you'd even be able to do it after the last boss and before finishing the game, or even after finishing the game and opting not to immediately go to NG+ (which is an option).
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
I wonder if Sekiro has hit the limit of how hard these games can become before excluding too many players. It certainly is very, very exhausting to play. More so than any Soulsborne game in my opinion.

But it's mostly just the bosses that give this exhausting feeling. The exploration and enemy encounter feels rather balanced and you progress with just the right amount of focus. I personally use these moments to take a breath and they are by far my most enjoyable moments. I know that the game has an obsession with trial and error, which is not usually to my liking, but so far I've decided to push on. Hopefully I will make it to the end. At the moment it feels like it's almost worthy of a tattoo for getting there. :)
It's at the limit for me. DS and BB never made me question if I should quit as much as Sekiro has. There's almost two games here: the exploration and mini bosses, and the boss fights that are like painful brick walls most of the time. I kid you not I've been wishing for a version without the boss fights lol.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
Robert is his son. Here's the description for Robert's Firecrackers, which you buy to turn into the Shinobi Firecracker prosthetic tool:

It's pretty much the only hint I'm aware of as to what's up with Armored Warrior and Robert. He's probably at Senpou seeking the rejuvenating waters for his son. Or maybe he gave his son over the monks under the promise that they'd use the waters to heal him, but he just ended up an experiment and died, and Armored Warrior refuses to believe this or is in the dark about it and got kinda maddened by his situation. Hard to say.

EDIT: Apparently the Ninth Prayer Necklace also says this:

Which I guess is really just further reinforcement, not much additional information.


There's a lot surrounding this, but based on various interactions with characters (when sharing sake and such) you learn that the Sculptor was, at some point, being consumed by hatred, bloodlust, etc. and Isshin cut off his arm to somehow prevent him from being totally consumed (presumably so he couldn't act on his urges, not totally sure). You can talk to the old lady in the building where you find Tengu after the Gyoubu fight and she talks about how the flames of hatred from all the warring going on all eventually go somewhere, and it seems like, for whatever reason, the Sculptor is sort of the conduit for all of that. So he's basically carving Buddhas trying to stall it, but eventually once the central forces invade he gets consumed by them and turns into the Demon of Hatred.


I don't know that it's ever made explicit, my assumption is that she has some sort of tell, like a sense of alertness, her stance, marks on her hands, or some combination thereof that Wolf can pick up on as a warrior himself.


No idea, really. Maybe it's dangerous or taboo to consume the rejuvenating waters (or sediment) and so he prefers to take it upon himself to save Ashina rather than force it on his men. Maybe he only trusts himself with the power.


Well, we do find out that Owl is after Kuro's blood as part of his sole ambition to basically take over Japan (or something), so it might make sense if Wolf was trying to protect Kuro or something.

Maybe Wolf was preoccupied for similar reasons as to why the usual soldiers of Hirata Estate were. There was some sort of battle and that's why Owl arranged the invasion that night, he knew they were at their weakest. We really don't know much about what was going on with Hirata Estate, or what even the true memory is, so it's kind of curious. It's something I'm hoping lore experts out there dig more into, or maybe we'll learn more in DLC!

Thanks!
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,548
UK
thank you :) Any tips for getting him stuck in the corner? Or is that just something that you gotta do over and over until it happens?

He's easy to get stuck. Just run to the corner, wait till he comes over, the run through the gap between the tree and the rock wall. He will try to follow and voila he's stuck.

As for attacking him, stand where there are some dead bodies on the floor, he will do a slam attack that will land just short of you. Once it lands, run in for a couple hits then run back.
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
User warned: posting unmarked spoilers
Now at
Owl and I think I've used up all my will to keep going. It's just this sort of apathetic "oh look, another miserably hard boss fight" as opposed to being excited and challenged to fight him. I still struggle a lot with this combat system. You need to deflect and block. Okay...two of those and Owl has me at full posture. Two. So now I'm hyper vulnerable and have to find a way to get space to drain some posture while he's still doing his best to keep it red-lined.

It's a terrific game and I certainly got my money's worth from many hours of fun, but for me the From formula broke down here. For me, I'll stress. Personal opinion.
 
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