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Oct 27, 2017
12,756
Are you referring to the day levels? To appreciate them you should see them as an on-rail stylish action racing game with lite platform elements and aim for S rank. They are not a traditional platform, nor they want to be. Unleashed day levels (which I played on PC on Sonic Generations engine) are actually my favourite 3D Sonic - yes, they are a completely different beast than the momentum-based platform which is 2D Sonic, but they are very good.

Mainly the day levels, yeah. The night levels have bad, sloppy controls too, but the main problem there is how utterly boring they are. Really not a fan of the boost/twitch gameplay here, especially when the controls are as loose and sloppy as they are.

It's more dire than the 360 version (worse lighting and framerate that goes from 60 to mid-20s regularly - sometimes the 10s), but yeah. Not a good game.

Don't mind the graphics and framerate, in fact I think the game looks and runs pretty damn good on the Hedgehog Engine. My problem is the gameplay and controls.
 

Synohan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,959
Huh. Other than the awkwardness of having the Homing attack on Square? I thought the controls in Unleashed were alright.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
I've used this example a million times but i believe it's still apt. Sonic has the "Dragon Ball Rival Effect". With the exception of Vegeta, once Goku got a new rival, the previous one immediately becomes irrelevant. Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Piccolo, and Hit have followed this pattern unfailingly. Knuckles, Blaze and Silver as well. They're no longer rivals, not even friendly ones, just friends now.


I'll say Tails and Eggman did stuff in Unleashed, but Amy was really just there for moral support. She didn't do much else. They're pretty bad in Lost World. 3D wise, it's just become the Sonic and Tails show now, for whatever reason.
I want to say I think this post is dead wrong. While people like to compare sonic and DBZ I think this is where the comparison works the least. It isn't about the rivals " becoming irrelevant " is about these characters not being written in stories.
Because sonic has some of the best " rivals " in video games, because sonic's rivals are shitty. Now this isn't some " sonic's shitty friends meme " or anything like that. I mean they are bad at being rivals. All of sonic's rivals until very recently when they were being written poorly, weren't irrelevent they just had their own lives and shit and had different shit to do. None of them had any real beef with sonic, shadow doesn't like him much but... that was about it. They had all grown and moved on, and expanded the world to be larger than just sonic, they had their own jobs responsibilities. And these things, when the characters were included were being written into the games.

The issue is that you don't get that writing. If you got more stories where other characters actually show up, like the comics it fixes that problem instantanisioly... like the comics. Recently western sega for whatever reason wants shadow to be written more like a rival character , and its quite literally the worst he's ever been. Its been received poorly, not just by fans of the games and comics, by Ian Flynn the guy who writes the comic and divulged that sega wanted him to do this. And in a subtile way also by ruby eclipse one of the more prominent community mangers. I don't think anyone wants real rivals and I don't think rivalry irrelevancy is the issue. The issue is simple, they don't show up at all and when they do someone in west sega wants them written like shit. If they just had the written well and doing other shit like they do in the comic it would quite litterally solve the problem. Like in the comics.
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
Assuming SEGA do another Sonic presentation like in the past, these are some of my predictions going by rumours (This list includes non Sonic Team related content btw)
  1. Mobile game to promote the Sonic Movie
  2. Sonic Mania sequel
  3. Sonic Adventure 1+2 Remakes for this year.
  4. Sonic Adventure 3 teaser for 2021 (to coincide with the 30th Anniversary)
This sounds like a fanboys dream, i expect FORCES 2 but with less edge ADVENTURE is never coming back
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,755
Sonic Adventure's script wasnt good though...

The Adventure games successfully carried on the personalities and world building aspects of the Genesis games and thats something they have failed hard at since 06. Through the adventure games we see tails go from being dependent on Sonic to having to stand on his own to when faced with Sonic's possible death taking up the mantel to fight Eggman and save Amy and the world. Forces literally has tails go into shock when Sonic is presumed dead. Knuckles goes from an honor bound some what gullible recluse to some one willing to open up more and see sonic more as a friend. Hid duty to the master emerald is now forgotten and he is basically played as just a joke now, funny enough I did like forces making him a bit more competent. Then you have Shadow, the ultimate lifeform based on ruins that depict super sonic seen in Sonic 3/Knuckles. All he wants to do is grant the dying wish of his sister Maria which he believed was to take vengeance on the earth due to Gerald Robotnick's tampering with his memories. His connection to rouge and amy allow him to remember Maria's true wish that he should save the world a task he does and seemingly dies for without hesitation working with his former enemy that he came to respect Sonic. Skipping the horrid misstep of ShTH we have 06 that does Shadow's story right. He knows that the world may one day turn against him but he has found a new family with Rouge and Omega (who is literally designed to kill Shadow) that will stick with him no matter what. Now Sega has quite literally mandated even to the comic that Shadow only be concerned with being Sonic's Rival.



Were at the point no where they have set the classic games and humans off in other universes that are literally not expanded on or explained. I would love if the rumored adventure remake allows them to get back on track with telling a story that respects the characters and worlds. Just gonna share some enjoyable vids I found on the subject,

youtu.be

Why Sonic Adventure is STILL Excellent!

PATREON ►: https://www.patreon.com/RubyofBlueTWITCH ►: https://www.twitch.tv/ruby_of_blueDISCORD ►: https://discord.gg/NYg5cGyTWITTER ►: https://twitter.com...



 

Mark1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,006
This sounds like a fanboys dream, i expect FORCES 2 but with less edge ADVENTURE is never coming back
Quite the contrary actually ;)

SA1/SA2 Remake rumours have appeared recently afaik. And I highly doubt SEGA won't want to bank on the success from Sonic Mania.

Maybe others want SA3 but I would rather they did not revert back to that approach that they've tried in the past with Sonic '06 and Sonic Unleashed (to a lesser degree)

I'd personally like to see them build on Generations (in terms of the boost gameplay), merge some of Sonic's tighter gameplay from SA1/SA2 and make the stages more expansive to encourage multiple play runs with Sonic/Shadow's speed, Tails' flying and Knuckles' climbing/gliding. (While all are still playing in a similar style)

Would it not save so many resources if they made fewer, but more expansive stages?
 
OP
OP
Zippo

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
I want to say I think this post is dead wrong. While people like to compare sonic and DBZ I think this is where the comparison works the least. It isn't about the rivals " becoming irrelevant " is about these characters not being written in stories.
Because sonic has some of the best " rivals " in video games, because sonic's rivals are shitty. Now this isn't some " sonic's shitty friends meme " or anything like that. I mean they are bad at being rivals. All of sonic's rivals until very recently when they were being written poorly, weren't irrelevent they just had their own lives and shit and had different shit to do. None of them had any real beef with sonic, shadow doesn't like him much but... that was about it. They had all grown and moved on, and expanded the world to be larger than just sonic, they had their own jobs responsibilities. And these things, when the characters were included were being written into the games.

The issue is that you don't get that writing. If you got more stories where other characters actually show up, like the comics it fixes that problem instantanisioly... like the comics. Recently western sega for whatever reason wants shadow to be written more like a rival character , and its quite literally the worst he's ever been. Its been received poorly, not just by fans of the games and comics, by Ian Flynn the guy who writes the comic and divulged that sega wanted him to do this. And in a subtile way also by ruby eclipse one of the more prominent community mangers. I don't think anyone wants real rivals and I don't think rivalry irrelevancy is the issue. The issue is simple, they don't show up at all and when they do someone in west sega wants them written like shit. If they just had the written well and doing other shit like they do in the comic it would quite litterally solve the problem. Like in the comics.

While i get where you're coming from, you actually missed the point of my post. It's not about the writing or whatever, it's how they were used in comparison to Dragon Ball. People much smarter than I like Totally Not Mark have brought this up, but Goku's numerous rivals are sidelined immediately following the introduction of a new one. Knuckles, Blaze and Silver have all just become sidelined that same way. Shadow and Vegeta are similar in a lot of ways that a milllion people have pointed out already, many aren't fans of how they're teeated in modern day stuff but they still remain their protagonist's main rivals. And yes, they are all irrelevant in the modern games because SEGA isn't doing jack shit with them. That's literally one of the biggest complaints about the modern games at present. When's the last time any of them have been playable in a 3D game? Them being poorly written is a whole other thing.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Quite the contrary actually ;)

SA1/SA2 Remake rumours have appeared recently afaik. And I highly doubt SEGA won't want to bank on the success from Sonic Mania.

Maybe others want SA3 but I would rather they did not revert back to that approach that they've tried in the past with Sonic '06 and Sonic Unleashed (to a lesser degree)

I'd personally like to see them build on Generations (in terms of the boost gameplay), merge some of Sonic's tighter gameplay from SA1/SA2 and make the stages more expansive to encourage multiple play runs with Sonic/Shadow's speed, Tails' flying and Knuckles' climbing/gliding. (While all are still playing in a similar style)

Would it not save so many resources if they made fewer, but more expansive stages?
I mean if we are still calling 06 and Unleashed their attempts at SA3, then it's only fair we can call Forces their attempt at Generations 2.

Boost gameplay is a resource hog and a level design deadweight. Think about how many times in generations you actually need to boost to continue. It just makes it so much harder to insert level design and make level content. I mean, the only reason people accepted it in Forces was because they had seemingly figured it out and everything else they tried would go badly. Well they made boost go badly lol.
 
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ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
The Adventure games successfully carried on the personalities and world building aspects of the Genesis games and thats something they have failed hard at since 06. Through the adventure games we see tails go from being dependent on Sonic to having to stand on his own to when faced with Sonic's possible death taking up the mantel to fight Eggman and save Amy and the world. Forces literally has tails go into shock when Sonic is presumed dead. Knuckles goes from an honor bound some what gullible recluse to some one willing to open up more and see sonic more as a friend. Hid duty to the master emerald is now forgotten and he is basically played as just a joke now, funny enough I did like forces making him a bit more competent. Then you have Shadow, the ultimate lifeform based on ruins that depict super sonic seen in Sonic 3/Knuckles. All he wants to do is grant the dying wish of his sister Maria which he believed was to take vengeance on the earth due to Gerald Robotnick's tampering with his memories. His connection to rouge and amy allow him to remember Maria's true wish that he should save the world a task he does and seemingly dies for without hesitation working with his former enemy that he came to respect Sonic. Skipping the horrid misstep of ShTH we have 06 that does Shadow's story right. He knows that the world may one day turn against him but he has found a new family with Rouge and Omega (who is literally designed to kill Shadow) that will stick with him no matter what. Now Sega has quite literally mandated even to the comic that Shadow only be concerned with being Sonic's Rival.



Were at the point no where they have set the classic games and humans off in other universes that are literally not expanded on or explained. I would love if the rumored adventure remake allows them to get back on track with telling a story that respects the characters and worlds. Just gonna share some enjoyable vids I found on the subject,

youtu.be

Why Sonic Adventure is STILL Excellent!

PATREON ►: https://www.patreon.com/RubyofBlueTWITCH ►: https://www.twitch.tv/ruby_of_blueDISCORD ►: https://discord.gg/NYg5cGyTWITTER ►: https://twitter.com...





I love the adventure series. When I say SA1 scripts was trash, I am referring to the writing and dialogue of SA1. It's not good. I think Gamma has the best thing they've ever done. Next to Shadow's Death.

Now the problem here is that Iizuka really has no understanding of what makes Adventure good and what are things that should be improved on. He just got done saying how progressive the series currently was. They thought Adventure fans would like the story in Forces.

Updating the graphics would be easy, there is no doubt in my mind everything else would be botched. Botched badly. Lowkey I wouldnt even bother, I would take the speed stages in adventure 1 and 2, add more characters and call it adventure mania or something. I know people would be upset about that, but it avoids the having to remake the story and the questionable gameplay styles. Most of which I dont actually hate
 
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Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Huh. Other than the awkwardness of having the Homing attack on Square? I thought the controls in Unleashed were alright.
There are so many little QOL fixes a PC port of Unleashed could easily mistake, and this is one of them. No idea what they were thinking, once you get the air boost it's super janky.
 
OP
OP
Zippo

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
And while those videos are nice, neither Adventure game holds up, gameplay or story wise, especially Adventure 2 because of how sloppily told the story is. You had to read supplemental story material to know Maria had a disease and Gerald traveled to the Mystic Ruins and shit. It's poor storytelling.

These remakes are needed.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
While i get where you're coming from, you actually missed the point of my post. It's not about the writing or whatever, it's how they were used in comparison to Dragon Ball. People much smarter than I like Totally Not Mark have brought this up, but Goku's numerous rivals are sidelined immediately following the introduction of a new one. Knuckles, Blaze and Silver have all just become sidelined that same way. Shadow and Vegeta are similar in a lot of ways that a milllion people have pointed out already, many aren't fans of how they're teeated in modern day stuff but they still remain their protagonist's main rivals. And yes, they are all irrelevant in the modern games because SEGA isn't doing jack shit with them. That's literally one of the biggest complaints about the modern games at present. When's the last time any of them have been playable in a 3D game? Them being poorly written is a whole other thing.
There is so much wrong in this post. And it seems you have completely my point entirely.

Like where do you want me to begin, that knuckles became one of the most prominently over the past few years the issue is how. Or how the shadow vegeta comparison doesn't work, and there is something going on right now that proves that. Or that how they are written plays into how they are used along with being playable.

Being sidelined isnt just not being playable it's how they are used in general it's a bunch of things including writing that makes them feel irrelevant. Not some weird dragon ball rivals shit. It feels like not only did you miss the point, you are saying so much stuff that's not just wrong does a disservice to sonic as a thing and misses how much plays into issue that is occurring and how these characters are presented.

Lastley I couldn't give two craps about what youtube man thinks about sonic. it is another bad take in a sea of bad takes. Such things are irrelevant to me
 
OP
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Zippo

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
User Banned (5 Days): Hostility
Lastley I couldn't give two craps about what youtube man thinks about sonic. it is another bad take in a sea of bad takes. Such things are irrelevant to me

This alone shows what an absolute moron you are and how you live in your own little universe where everyone else is wrong. This is why Sonic fans get so much shit.

Not bothering. Buzz off.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
This alone shows what an absolute moron you are and how you live in your own little universe where everyone else is wrong. This is why Sonic fans get so much shit.

Not bothering. Buzz off.
I have been in this fanbase for quite some time, I have watched years and years of youtube videos of people with wild takes about sonic. You referencing one in your response, yes doesn't mean much to me. Not all of them are wrong, some of them have harsh truths like one I watched recetly that kind of details the dire state sonic was in. But a lot of them aren't good, and to suggest that I live in my own little universe because I don't thin a lot of the material put on youtube about sonic is interesting is strange.
More so than that, to call me a moron over it. This is a fucking franchise for children about animals that go fucking fast and a punch a fat doctor and sometimes it shounen. As much as I like it when its more serious, it ain't that serious. And I have not once called you out of your name. I just said you missed my point, which I believe you still have. That characters can be playable and represented poorly and characters can be not playable and represented great prominently. And to make a character look good takes a combination of things.

So instead of taking this weird sonic thing entirely too seriously, maybe apologize and chill.

I do not care that youtube man thinks shadow and vegeta are actually simular. I think its one of those things that break down in like 5 seconds if you actually think about it. You posting that someone thinks this, doesn't do anything for me. Because that's how wrong I think the statement is. And i'm not a moron for having an opinion and thinking that shit sounds stupid.
 

Corrie1960

Banned
Mar 19, 2019
1,888
Give me sonic adventure 1&2 remake and then 3

and give me lots of playable characters with there own story I'm tired of playing just sonic
 
OP
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Zippo

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
That art is very Adventure esque. Ukewa has been doing it again lately.

Could it be?
 

N75

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,232
Not sure if it even matters given the overall direction of the 3D games, but Hiroshi Miyamoto didn't work on Mario & Sonc 2020 so maybe we'll see him return to the series.

Though he could have been working on something else like the Sonic Olympic game for mobile or Sakura Wars.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,040
I actually didn't hate Mephiles. I loved Dan Green's voice for him, and it was fun watching him essentially fuck around and troll the main cast as well as accomplishing the ultimate edgelord move of killing Sonic. Particularly, Shadow's narrative was only as strong as it was thanks to Mephiles attempting to corrupt and challenge him with how humanity viewed him.

I've especially grown to appreciate him more after the embarrassing attempts at villains since (Time Eater, Zavok, Infinite).
 

Deleted member 51691

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 6, 2019
17,834
Did Izuka or some other Sonic Team talking head ever say that they didn't understand why fans liked the Adventure games, or am I just imagining that or mixing it up with something else?
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,543
Did Izuka or some other Sonic Team talking head ever say that they didn't understand why fans liked the Adventure games, or am I just imagining that or mixing it up with something else?
Iizuka said he believed the Adventure formula to be a thing of the past and that they don't want to go backwards, but this was before Forces released.
 

Deleted member 4552

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,570
This alone shows what an absolute moron you are and how you live in your own little universe where everyone else is wrong. This is why Sonic fans get so much shit.

Not bothering. Buzz off.


If you were gonna get banned for it anywhere you should have told him to fuck off.

And call him a cunt.

The biggest wasted opportunity since Sega didn't bother to make Sonic Mania 2.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
Sonic's possible death .. Forces literally has tails go into shock when Sonic is presumed dead.

And people wonder why others hate 3D Sonic. Fucking garbage. Even Sonic 4, for all its flaws, is better than the trash 3D Sonic is.

Huh. Other than the awkwardness of having the Homing attack on Square? I thought the controls in Unleashed were alright.

Good for you. Unleashed is still a dumpster fire.
 

Big Yoshi

Member
Nov 25, 2018
1,806
Do yall really think they would never remake Adventure 1/2 when the Crash and Spyro trilogies have been so successful? SEGA may not be the smartest company but it doesnt make sense for them financially to ignore such a huge possible money cow.

The main problem is that unlike spyro and Crash, Sonic games have aged pretty bad (In my personal opinion of course), so would it be enough to just put a fresh coat of paint on the game and sell it as is? or are you going to make deep structural changes to the game itself? I can't see any world in which they remove that alternate gameplay styles, especially considering how short the games would be if they were just the sonic story.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,195
Portugal
Do yall really think they would never remake Adventure 1/2 when the Crash and Spyro trilogies have been so successful? SEGA may not be the smartest company but it doesnt make sense for them financially to ignore such a huge possible money cow.

The main problem is that unlike spyro and Crash, Sonic games have aged pretty bad (In my personal opinion of course), so would it be enough to just put a fresh coat of paint on the game and sell it as is? or are you going to make deep structural changes to the game itself? I can't see any world in which they remove that alternate gameplay styles, especially considering how short the games would be if they were just the sonic story.
They'd have to change up the gameplay for sure. And in that, IMO, lies the issue.

They struck gold with the Generations/Boost gameplay for the 3D Sonic. Yes it's resource intensive (well, only if they want it to, Colours was a Wii game and had the basic boost formula down pretty well) and it needs decent level design (something that Forces, from what I've seen sorely lacks) but it works well enough. Generations wasn't popular just because it was a compilation game, it was popular because it was actually damn fun. The game made getting a better score in any given level a pretty fun challenge. You had a series of games (Unleashed - Colours - Generations - Forces) in which the regular Sonic gameplay became solid, stable and fun (for the most part).

The Adventure gameplay, while functional and acceptable at the time, aged poorly. A mere 4-5 years after the launch of the 1st entry (98/99) it felt super dated when it transitioned to the non-Dreamcast consoles (and the ports themselves were messy which didn't help). Heroes, Shadow, '06 all tried to keep it going, each with their own spin on the formula and none actually made it better in any way or form. Sure Heroes was pretty decent, but even that had it's own set of issues.

The closest I feel they've gotten to a proper Adventure gameplay style in modern days has been with Lost World. That game's abilities and movement for Sonic felt like they would work wonderfully in more open ended levels (not that Adventure 1 or 2 were that open in that regard) or a hub world without having to really change anything.

To keep this short, my point is that while they can take loads of inspiration from the Adventure Era in terms of style, feel or even having multiple characters, they absolutely can't keep that gameplay without improving it massively. However the issue lies in the fact that they themselves never managed that with the following entries before switching to the Boost formula.

At this point I think it's best they keep on the Boost formula or try something new entirely (and sure, bring on more characters, no problems with that), going back to something they never managed to make work is asking for pointless trouble IMO.
 
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Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
If they do change-up the gameplay for eventual Adventure remakes I wish they would look close at the HERO Engine (not Sonic Heroes, the fan-engine) as I think its physics and movement options would work beautifully with Adventure levels too and it showed that non-Boost 3D Sonic can control well.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,013
I don't think Sonic Team is capable of developing multiple Sonic games at once anymore. The Valkyria team was absorbed into Sonic Team but they're still doing their own thing. We should only expect either a Sonic Adventure remake or brand-new 3D Sonic, not both.
I would assume they would want to space out the next 3D Sonic and a possible Mania sequel to not again get the 3D game put in a bad light because of 2D fans. In principle, if Sonic Team wants a Sonic game this year and next year, they have several options to compliment a game they developed their own:
- Dimps, who were a long-time partner on the series could have been asked to make a new game
- Sonic Mania 2
- Sanzaru Games also has been a partner for two Sonic games not too long ago and might have been tasked with a new game.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
The closest I feel they've gotten to a proper Adventure gameplay style in modern days has been with Lost World. That game's abilities and movement for Sonic felt like they would work wonderfully in more open ended levels (not that Adventure 1 or 2 were that open in that regard) or a hub world without having to really change anything.

This is why I've always kinda hated the backlash Lost World got. Its problems were its level design - the actual mechanics were solid for anyone wanting a more 3D platformer-style Sonic game. I get that having a run button in Sonic is bizarre but it is genuinely one of the only ways you can make his movement work in 360 degrees without face planting into walls every five seconds.

The Hyrule DLC really showed how well it could work with more open zones, too.

Alas Sonic Team seems to take the wrong lessons from every 3D Sonic game and it's exhausting
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
I think there's a lot of potential in what you could do in modernized sonic adventure 2 speed gameplay. I have said this multiple times, but a speed based trick based thing that's like DMC platoforming. Its about stylishly completing levels and killing things have never been truly achieved in sonic and sa2 is the closest you get to actually doing that. A modernized version of that with parkour , and like character movesets. You can do some shit.

That said they have never gone back to the sa2 style of level design and handling ...ever. So I don't expect them to, but I genuinely think that game has some potential but... eh.

Iizuka said he believed the Adventure formula to be a thing of the past and that they don't want to go backwards, but this was before Forces released.
" Yo I don't even know why you like that, its a thing of the past "

Proceeds to release a game where they not only fail to understand the non gameplay appeals of that era failing poorly to even created a good version of the at this point , quaint stories they told over a decade ago. Making all the characters look utterely useless and poor reflections of their former selves. Is also a poor facsimile of the classic gameplay and modern boost gameplay, which may imply they don't understand why people like...anything they do.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
Do yall really think they would never remake Adventure 1/2 when the Crash and Spyro trilogies have been so successful? SEGA may not be the smartest company but it doesnt make sense for them financially to ignore such a huge possible money cow.

The main problem is that unlike spyro and Crash, Sonic games have aged pretty bad (In my personal opinion of course), so would it be enough to just put a fresh coat of paint on the game and sell it as is? or are you going to make deep structural changes to the game itself? I can't see any world in which they remove that alternate gameplay styles, especially considering how short the games would be if they were just the sonic story.
Ignoring discussions of quality outright, the structure of the Adventure games is a quantum leap above the original Crash and Spyro titles. Adventure 1 in particular was one of the boldest games of it's era for a great number of reasons. The scale required to properly remake just that game is likely beyond the budget of the past several Sonic games combined. That and both Adventure games are just wildly different... I do not see any likely way for SEGA to efficiently remake these games unless they just want to straight up remove/retcon massive chunks. The fans would absolutely not appreciate that.

Artistically I think the current staff are all wrong too. Aesthetically City Escape in Sonic Generations was on-point, but I absolutely loathed what they did with Speed Highway Zone and current composers like Ohtani would go in a completely different direction than most fans would expect too.

An entirely new game inspired by the Dreamcast titles is the only real option here and I personally do not think the team is capable of recapturing their essence.

All Sega need to do is make Sonic Mania 2.
Every other move is the wrong move.
Honestly, Sonic Mania 2 would probably sell a fraction of the first game even if it was significantly better. As much as it pains me to say, Mania is kind of ultimately a gimmick release and I think SEGA recognizes that.

There is absolutely a market and a place for classic Sonic style games going forward, but I rather we just get a fully original title by Whitehead and crew with a similar vibe and style. I especially want to see some of the spinoffs and 8bit Sonics remade.
 

Supaidaman

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
890
That art is very Adventure esque. Ukewa has been doing it again lately.

Could it be?
It looks like just an edit of an old Shadow art, from the adventure days. This Mephiles art was certainly not done by Uekawa himself:
ENdwIJ5U8AAMfdt

That being said, it's very weird to see official merch with Mephiles in 2020.
 

Corrie1960

Banned
Mar 19, 2019
1,888
Adventure Gameplay is my favourite, sonic is fast but not to fast still enjoyable and I get to play as sonic friends in there own story modes I didn't care if it was same levels as sonic friends that's ok by me

sonic heroes gameplay is great also
 

Mark1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,006
This is the first time in a while where I've got no idea what SEGA/Sonic Team have got planned for the next 3D Sonic entry.

Partially due to the fact that I don't have much confidence in them doing a 180 degree turn in quality after Sonic Forces.

Which was most likely made based on the success of boost gameplay (and Classic Sonic...) in Generations and Colours, while wanting to make people forget about Lost World.

Like would current Sonic Team be wise to continue building on boost gameplay? Go back to Lost World? Or something else completely?
Realistically they will never be able to please every subset of Sonic fans with one game. I think Sonic Team finally know this. With all the backlash of putting classic Sonic in Sonic Forces when Sonic Mania already exists (while doing the gameplay style so much better.)

I really think Sonic Team is best to continue building on Generations (which Forces was a half assed attempt at) and avoid having to experiment again.

Seriously do think Generations had a really solid foundation for 3D Sonic, if they can fix up on the controls and make the worlds more expansive (like SA1) to accommodate multiple characters (namely Tails and Knuckles') then they could finally have a proper winner. Maybe attempt at implementing Adventure/Lost World elements of possible?
 
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TheKeipatzy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,716
California for now
I think there's a lot of potential in what you could do in modernized sonic adventure 2 speed gameplay. I have said this multiple times, but a speed based trick based thing that's like DMC platoforming. Its about stylishly completing levels and killing things have never been truly achieved in sonic and sa2 is the closest you get to actually doing that. A modernized version of that with parkour , and like character movesets. You can do some shit.

That said they have never gone back to the sa2 style of level design and handling ...ever. So I don't expect them to, but I genuinely think that game has some potential but... eh.

*************

" Yo I don't even know why you like that, its a thing of the past "

Proceeds to release a game where they not only fail to understand the non gameplay appeals of that era failing poorly to even created a good version of the at this point , quaint stories they told over a decade ago. Making all the characters look utterely useless and poor reflections of their former selves. Is also a poor facsimile of the classic gameplay and modern boost gameplay, which may imply they don't understand why people like...anything they do.
Regarding the first part, I am hopeful, but who knows? Maybe there is a policy or something cuz I swear sometimes that's good ideas and they never go back to it.

To the second part? I am suddenly reminded about NiGHTS Journey of Dreams. It had the seeds of the past games, but took away the score attack roots. For better or worse. And jumping platforms didn't help either :/
 

TreIII

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,280
Columbia, MD
This is the first time in a while where I've got no idea what SEGA/Sonic Team have got planned for the next 3D Sonic entry.

Partially due to the fact that I don't have much confidence in them doing a 180 degree turn in quality after Sonic Forces.

Which was most likely made based on the success of boost gameplay (and Classic Sonic...) in Generations and Colours, while wanting to make people forget about Lost World.

Like would current Sonic Team be wise to continue building on boost gameplay? Go back to Lost World? Or something else completely?
Realistically they will never be able to please every subset of Sonic fans with one game. I think Sonic Team finally know this. With all the backlash of putting classic Sonic in Sonic Forces when Sonic Mania already exists (while doing the gameplay style so much better.)

I really think Sonic Team is best to continue building on Generations (which Forces was a half assed attempt at) and avoid having to experiment again.

Seriously do think Generations had a really solid foundation for 3D Sonic, if they can fix up on the controls and make the worlds more expansive (like SA1) to accommodate multiple characters (namely Tails and Knuckles') then they could finally have a proper winner. Maybe attempt at implementing Adventure/Lost World elements of possible?
This is why I personally think/hope that the Adventure remakes are a thing.

After having to go take a serious look at how your attempt to move "forward" fell flat on its face in Forces (aka Generations 2 by another name), I would hope even more so now that Iizuka is willing to go back to Adventure, and mine those old games for ideas while you set about remaking them. You get to revisit games that people actually liked (or still like, in other instances), and if they're received well? Then by all means, expand on those things that worked so well and jettison those that don't. (And hopefully, have Flynn on hand to make the character dialogue sound much more natural!)

I mean...if we're bound to hear something to the tune of "taking (3D) Sonic back to his roots" in some form or fashion, it might as well mean something very literally for the first time in over 2 decades.