Secret dossier reveals Jeremy Corbyn’s strategy was crude and vindictive (Sunday Times UK)

[Kirblar]

As someone from across the pond, why didn't Labour present themselves as a party for "Remainers"? It seemed so bizarre.

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Remainers are geographically disadvantaged pretty badly due to the way their voters are more heavily clustered, creating a massive issue with a hard remain stance. There's a good argument (courtesy of David Shor on twitter) that Corbyn waffling was the right move in 2017 but that you needed someone who wasn't Corbyn presenting that stance in order to have a shot at winning the election. Which may have been a Catch-22 as most of the Corbyn alternatives were pretty staunchly remain while the waffling was largely cause Corbyn was a leaver.

 

[Ushojax]

The strategy was delusional and resulted in the party being being destroyed at the polls, anyone who is not a true believer was worried this was coming. Lunatics like Seumas Milne have no business trying to take Labour into government. It may be that a Labour victory was not possible in the Brexit circumstances but it didn't need to be as bad a defeat as this.

Once the Corbynistas have properly digested their defeat they will realise that all Labour need to think about is winning power, without that you can't actually help anyone. The deck is already stacked against them and the country is not ready to vote for an out and out socialist leader or platform. They need to take the Boris approach and focus on one or two popular policies while offering vague platitudes on everything else. You think Boris is actually going to build a fairer society, protect the NHS, etc? Of course not, he won and now he can do whatever he wants.

Of course Brexit and Corbyn were massive factors but they were just two aspects of a massive hurricane of shit that has swirled around Labour for years, long before Corbyn took over. They need fresh faces in every department and people without baggage, people hungry to win power and not just hungry to get retweets from SOAS students.

 

[FSP]

Says the Lib Dem

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The LD strategy was flawed in a few ways, but their result was the getting a lot more votes than 2017. The campaign was run badly and blew up in Swinson's face, but the LDs left the election with some pretty massive swings in their favour in most of their target seats, with the exception of Kensington (which was a mess).

Compared with Labour, who:

1. Ran with a leader with record-low approval ratings.
2. Ran a campaign based on trying to win Leave voters with laughably bad Brexit policy that insulted the intelligence of anyone who gave it a glance.
3. Ran on a more radical manifesto than 2017, making changes where none were needed.

Labour's result wasn't a disaster everywhere - in my own patch in Enfield the party did perfectly well - but it was laughably bad in its heartlands and I really hope the post-mortem doesn't shy away from what its own former voters are reporting in the polls:

1. Corbyn was shit
2. His Brexit policy was shit
3. The manifesto was shit

Fix these three things and a left-wing Labour can do well at the next election and get a coalition going with the SNP and LDs... otherwise we are looking at another decade of the Tories, not just 4 years.

 

[Deleted member 835]

The LD strategy was flawed in a few ways, but their result was the getting a lot more votes than 2017. The campaign was run badly and blew up in Swinson's face, but the LDs left the election with some pretty massive swings in their favour in most of their target seats, with the exception of Kensington (which was a mess).

Compared with Labour, who:

1. Ran with a leader with record-low approval ratings.
2. Ran a campaign based on trying to win Leave voters with laughably bad Brexit policy that insulted the intelligence of anyone who gave it a glance.
3. Ran on a more radical manifesto than 2017, making changes where none were needed.

Labour's result wasn't a disaster everywhere - in my own patch in Enfield the party did perfectly well - but it was laughably bad in its heartlands and I really hope the post-mortem doesn't shy away from what its own former voters are reporting in the polls:

1. Corbyn was shit
2. His Brexit policy was shit
3. The manifesto was shit

Fix these three things and a left-wing Labour can do well at the next election and get a coalition going with the SNP and LDs... otherwise we are looking at another decade of the Tories, not just 4 years.

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Both were shit. Libs fucked over the remain vote and had a leader that never wanted to go near Labour.

 

[bye]

I wish people would stop pretending that what Labour did in the UK has any bearing on US politics. Dems surged in 2018 while Labour hasn't, polling favors Dems at the moment while Labour trailed badly in pre election polling.

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some ppl in this community are just desperate to see Bernie fail in any possible way and constantly grasp at straws in order to paint a picture like he will or has done so

this has become amplified with kamala dropping out and warren slipping, of course

 

[Audioboxer]

The strategy was delusional and resulted in the party being being destroyed at the polls, anyone who is not a true believer was worried this was coming. Lunatics like Seumas Milne have no business trying to take Labour into government. It may be that a Labour victory was not possible in the Brexit circumstances but it didn't need to be as bad a defeat as this.

Once the Corbynistas have properly digested their defeat they will realise that all Labour need to think about is winning power, without that you can't actually help anyone. The deck is already stacked against them and the country is not ready to vote for an out and out socialist leader or platform. They need to take the Boris approach and focus on one or two popular policies while offering vague platitudes on everything else. You think Boris is actually going to build a fairer society, protect the NHS, etc? Of course not, he won and now he can do whatever he wants.

Of course Brexit and Corbyn were massive factors but they were just two aspects of a massive hurricane of shit that has swirled around Labour for years, long before Corbyn took over. They need fresh faces in every department and people without baggage, people hungry to win power and not just hungry to get retweets from SOAS students.

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Maybe England should also pay attention to how it's middle-aged decide to fuck the country a bit younger than in Scotland



No surprises above.

Look at England as you get older





Most notably 50-64. Scotland is still very yellow, England is well on its way.



The final conclusion surprises no one.

As I said once the Queen is dead and hopefully less British unionist nonsense is with the youth, some of the English classism might start to die off. The 50-64 year old vote in England is fucking the country hard. Much like they probably fuck their Queen pillows and reminisce about British colonialism.

Hence it's a 20~30 year battle for England in my eyes, you need to wait on more of your 50+ category dying off, and with them, hopefully more of the absolute insane rule Britannia nonsense that has plagued the UK since WW2.

 

[Ushojax]

Maybe England should also pay attention to how it's middle-aged decide to fuck the country a bit younger than in Scotland



No surprises above.

Look at England as you get older





Most notably 50-64. Scotland is still very yellow, England is well on its way.



The final conclusion surprises no one.

As I said once the Queen is dead and hopefully less British unionist nonsense is with the youth, some of the English classism might start to die off. The 50-64 year old vote in England is fucking the country hard. Much like they probably fuck their Queen pillows and reminisce about British colonialism.

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Sure, when most Telegraph subscribers are dead things will get better. That's not going to suddenly make Corbyn and his type of politics electable.

 

[El Bombastico]

So wait, is Corbyn out or not? Cause those article snippets makes it seem like he's doubling down or something.

 

[Audioboxer]

Sure, when most Telegraph subscribers are dead things will get better. That's not going to suddenly make Corbyn and his type of politics electable.

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Getting hung up on Corbyn when your country would call Nicola Sturgeon a Communist if she was leading British Labour is the longterm point. It's not just telegraph readers, England has a massive issue with Queen and Country Unionism, especially the older populations. Classism has destroyed England and is continuing to. They'll be trying to instil that in their children like Rangers families in Scotland do it to their children.

The difference in Scotland is our disillusioned Labour vote largely went SNP, not Tory. Some hardcore Labour Unionists went Tory, but Scottish people make fun of them. We don't coddle Tory voters in Scotland. A culture of people were brought up here after Thatcher that mocked and ridiculed Tories. We largely stand by it.

You've got an ideological fight on your hands whether you like it or not, and centrism+ from the incoming Labour Government is not a long-term solution. It MIGHT get that Labour Government elected after another 10 years of Tory reign, but unless you remind those who are going to be alive for generations to come not to become their parents, and why not, chances are a good chunk of them will.

Especially if they think at the end of the day, politics in England is "kind and fair" and "both sides" always have credibility. As long as the UK Conservative party is fielding absolute lunatics and sheer evil people like Patel, there is no "both sides".

 

[Cocolina]

So wait, is Corbyn out or not? Cause those article snippets makes it seem like he's doubling down or something.

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he's gone, we don't know yet though...some time this year whenever they do a leadership contest

 

[Deleted member 835]

Sure, when most Telegraph subscribers are dead things will get better. That's not going to suddenly make Corbyn and his type of politics electable.

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Labour aren't getting in unless they go more centre. Which means leaving many of the poc such as myself behind, yet again. White people in UK just don't give a shit.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[AuthenticM]

Maybe England should also pay attention to how it's middle-aged decide to fuck the country a bit younger than in Scotland



No surprises above.

Look at England as you get older





Most notably 50-64. Scotland is still very yellow, England is well on its way.



The final conclusion surprises no one.

As I said once the Queen is dead and hopefully less British unionist nonsense is with the youth, some of the English classism might start to die off. The 50-64 year old vote in England is fucking the country hard. Much like they probably fuck their Queen pillows and reminisce about British colonialism.

Hence it's a 20~30 year battle for England in my eyes, you need to wait on more of your 50+ category dying off, and with them, hopefully more of the absolute insane rule Britannia nonsense that has plagued the UK since WW2.

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Man. Old people really are a plague, huh.

 

[Kirblar]

If no one in the US is advocating for a Corbyn style strategy how is this result something Democrats should pay attention to? If anything Biden is closest to the idea of seriously targeting WWC voters. I'm not sure why you brought up Hillary she's irrelevant now. I'd be curious to see crosstabs for Bernie/trump and warren/trump where neither are well liked.

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I don't believe the 3 major campaigns are advocating for this - it's more people outside of them online.

The reason I brought up Hillary/Trump 16 is only because she lost voters who disliked both to Trump, while in polling Biden's blowing out that crosstab. Just a data point. I believe both Sanders and Warren do worse on the metric and as someone who prefers Warren this is not a data point that fills me with happiness.

 

[Deleted member 43]

After experiencing 08, 16 and part of 20, "way too loyal to people they need to cut" has become a mega gigantic red flag for me.

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And it's not just on the left where this happens. The GOP, for example, should have taken the Senate in 2010 but shot themselves in the foot over ideology.

 

[Kirblar]

And it's not just on the left where this happens. The GOP, for example, should have taken the Senate in 2010 but shot themselves in the foot over ideology.

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While I agree with your point about both parties punting winnable seats in wave years due to dumb ideology, I'm missing the connection to individual politicians being far too loyal to the people around them, which is a non-ideological issue.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Maybe England should also pay attention to how it's middle-aged decide to fuck the country a bit younger than in Scotland



No surprises above.

Look at England as you get older





Most notably 50-64. Scotland is still very yellow, England is well on its way.



The final conclusion surprises no one.

As I said once the Queen is dead and hopefully less British unionist nonsense is with the youth, some of the English classism might start to die off. The 50-64 year old vote in England is fucking the country hard. Much like they probably fuck their Queen pillows and reminisce about British colonialism.

Hence it's a 20~30 year battle for England in my eyes, you need to wait on more of your 50+ category dying off, and with them, hopefully more of the absolute insane rule Britannia nonsense that has plagued the UK since WW2.

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The problem is, those numbers won't stay the same as the population ages. The better Conservatives do now, the more the younger demographics will drift towards them.

People love winners.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

I don't believe the 3 major campaigns are advocating for this - it's more people outside of them online.

The reason I brought up Hillary/Trump 16 is only because she lost voters who disliked both to Trump, while in polling Biden's blowing out that crosstab. Just a data point. I believe both Sanders and Warren do worse on the metric and as someone who prefers Warren this is not a data point that fills me with happiness.

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The 2018 results in historically blue states that Trump won in 2016 leaves me hopeful that those crosstabs won't be relevant in 2020.

 

[Audioboxer]

Man. Old people really are a plague, huh.

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A lot of them are coming from that WW2 generation who like some current ex-Army nuts, still think Britain is fighting a war and everyone is out to get the great Island of Britain. Everyone is an enemy, if they aren't white and English/British.

That will die off to an extent, and as I keep saying hopefully the Queen and her generation dying marginalises the Royal Family, but Westminster revels in classism tradition too. Look at how upset the gammon get if you don't want to swear your allegiance to an unelected head of State in parliament. It's utter trash. Archaic trash that doesn't serve the people.

But even when old people die, they've largely raised families. Lots of youth might get good education and rebel against their parents in their teens and 20s, but don't underestimate the mind virus of ideas/politics for youth to effectively end up becoming their parents. Soo many people become their parents.

This is why England needs a culture of mocking incompetent Governments and reminding generations to come what the British Conservative party has done to the UK and what it stands for.

The problem is, those numbers won't stay the same as the population ages. The better Conservatives do now, the more the younger demographics will drift towards them.

People love winners.

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Yeah, as I said above, a lot of people become their parents even although they say they never will. Plus, resenting adult life and its hardships tends to turn many to lashing out at others. Ironically in the case of politics, seemingly voting Tory because it makes them feel they're more upper-class than they are and only those less well off than them will get hurt.

Faux-classism to a tee. When you are that much of a mess in the head you think the act of simply voting for the poshest sounding rich leader somehow makes you a class above those you perceive as below you.

 

[Deleted member 43]

While I agree with your point about both parties punting winnable seats in wave years due to dumb ideology, I'm missing the connection to individual politicians being far too loyal to the people around them, which is a non-ideological issue.

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You're right, misread your post (it's early here).

 

[Ushojax]

Labour aren't getting in unless they go more centre. Which means leaving many of the poc such as myself behind, yet again. White people in UK just don't give a shit.

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The UK is a racist, classist country and nobody can deny that. Politics is a disgusting plague pit where you have to throw shit, eat shit and bathe in shit 24 hours a day but the shit fight is the only to reach the levers of power.

We have to be pragmatic. First let's find a decent leader. One who is hungry for power and is ready to sweat blood to get it, not a lazy old codger like Corbyn. One who doesn't have baggage that allows opponents to reflect all his attacks back at them. If we can find a charismatic leader that is half the battle won. Boris is an incredibly unpopular character and only looks good to the public compared to Corbyn.

Aspects of the manifesto were intact very good. Everyone likes to say the policy was bad but they don't bring any evidence of that to the table. Just some ramblings of "labour must move to the centre" despite their very popular policies. Now there's a good argument for the public not being ready for some of those policies ( 4 day week and free internet while good policies I think the public just aren't ready for them) and that there was no focus when it came to presenting the policies to the public and what it would mean. But it was a good manifesto. Going to the centre is not going to work.

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The problem wasn't individual policies, the problem was that they threw far too much out there and ended up just playing into the reputation they had of not being serious on the economy. They overstretched themselves and paid the price. Keep it simple.

 

[Kirblar]

The 2018 results in historically blue states that Trump won in 2016 leaves me hopeful that those crosstabs won't be relevant in 2020.

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The Senate is the big concern on that one because we're gonna need a wave bigger than just winning the Presidency to actually be able to achieve anything legislatively.

You're right, misread your post (it's early here).

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I thought this would be late for the terror who flaps in the night?

 

[Deleted member 835]

The problem is, those numbers won't stay the same as the population ages. The better Conservatives do now, the more the younger demographics will drift towards them.

People love winners.

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More and more young people hate them. Yeah some will drift to Tories when older, but it won't be the same as now. Tories know they have to start drifting to the centre more if they are going to survive.

 

[Deleted member 43]

The Senate is the big concern on that one because we're gonna need a wave bigger than just winning the Presidency to actually be able to achieve anything legislatively.

I thought this would be late for the terror who flaps in the night?

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Just came off a long night of crime fighting, up is down and black is white.

 

[Deleted member 835]

The UK is a racist, classist country and nobody can deny that. Politics is a disgusting plague pit where you have to throw shit, eat shit and bathe in shit 24 hours a day but the shit fight is the only to reach the levers of power.

We have to be pragmatic. First let's find a decent leader. One who is hungry for power and is ready to sweat blood to get it, not a lazy old codger like Corbyn. One who doesn't have baggage that allows opponents to reflect all his attacks back at them. If we can find a charismatic leader that is half the battle won. Boris is an incredibly unpopular character and only looks good to the public compared to Corbyn.



The problem wasn't individual policies, the problem was that they threw far too much out there and ended up just playing into the reputation they had of not being serious on the economy. They overstretched themselves and paid the price. Keep it simple.

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Nah Boris only looks good cus people are ok with bigots.

 

[Deleted member 43]

More and more young people hate them. Yeah some will drift to Tories when older, but it won't be the same as now. Tories know they have to start drifting to the centre more if they are going to survive.

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I don't disagree, but looking at current demographic breakdowns and saying this problem is time-limited is a recipe for disaster.

As much as it may suck, you need to strike a balance between achieving things now and building for the future.

 

[JABEE]

While I agree with your point about both parties punting winnable seats in wave years due to dumb ideology, I'm missing the connection to individual politicians being far too loyal to the people around them, which is a non-ideological issue.

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Are you referencing Bill Clinton still hanging around as a liability? I don't know if that would have been easy for a Presidential candidate to divorce their spouse even if he was a general creep and probably a rapist. No one could anticipate the public would give Trump a pass for his conduct, because of Bill Clinton's participation in the campaign.

Also, there is no issue with holding ideological beliefs as long as they aren't worn like fashion accessories ready for evolution at the drop of the next polling data.

 

[Deleted member 835]

I don't disagree, but looking at current demographic breakdowns and saying this problem is time-limited is a recipe for disaster.

As much as it may suck, you need to strike a balance between achieving things now and building for the future.

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Problem is like I said before. Going more centre means shitting on the poc that always vote Labour. There is a point were we will just give up.

 

[Xando]

More and more young people hate them. Yeah some will drift to Tories when older, but it won't be the same as now. Tories know they have to start drifting to the centre more if they are going to survive.

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Problem is right wing parties like the tories are far more likely to move to the center because they're mostly in it for the power.
Take germany for example. The CDU under Merkel moved so far into the centre that even centre left voters voted for them and they almost got a absolute majority in 2013.

Conservatives are far less motivated by ideology and more power hungry than the left.

 

[Kirblar]

Are you referencing Bill Clinton still hanging around as a liability? I don't know if that would have been easy for a Presidential candidate to divorce their spouse even if he was a general creep and probably a rapist. No one could anticipate the public would give Trump a pass for his conduct, because of Bill Clinton's participation in the campaign.

Also, there is no issue with holding ideological beliefs as long as they aren't worn like fashion accessories ready for evolution at the drop of the next polling data.

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No, not Bill it's a laundry list of others who she wasn't married to. Mark Penn, that shithead spiritual advisor, Huma. Huma was Weiner's ex, her association with him is what tied him indirectly to Clinton and led to the "investigation" of a nothingburger at the tail end of the campaign after he got in trouble for being a sex pest on the internet again.

 

[SMD]

.

 

[Audioboxer]

More and more young people hate them. Yeah some will drift to Tories when older, but it won't be the same as now. Tories know they have to start drifting to the centre more if they are going to survive.

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The UK Tories are already seen as "Centrist enough" as long as they don't outwardly hate the gays and go full anti-abortion like Republicans. Funnily enough the porn bill was probably one of their closet wobbles in a while to cheese off younger Tory voters. No doubt some in Labour supported it as well.

It doesn't matter how much they say they'll shift to the centre, they run on classism and the UK keeps rewarding it. Some minority bashing helps too, and there is plenty of young men who follow the likes of Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins as like in America, it's "counter-culture" or something. Even although racism and classism is the majority culture in the UK 🤷‍♂️

As the UK (England) goes almost completely blue at 50-64, there's as I said, another 20~30+ years of safe Tory voting. Unless England can convince its population classism is not a national treasure, shit won't seriously change. Roll out your "Tony Blair 2.0" and prove us all wrong I guess. We'll see how that works.

 

[Xando]

well yeah because there's nothing compelling them to stick with their manifestos. blame the electorate for being thick enough to keep falling for it every time

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I'm not blaming the electorate for it i'm blaming the other parties for getting played by the tories who run on 1-2 topics and make the rest up as they go and still win.

 

[Deleted member 835]

The UK Tories are already seen as "Centrist enough" as long as they don't outwardly hate the gays and go full anti-abortion like Republicans. Funnily enough the porn bill was probably one of their closet wobbles in a while to cheese off younger Tory voters. No doubt some in Labour supported it as well.

It doesn't matter how much they say they'll shift to the centre, they run on classism and the UK keeps rewarding it. Some minority bashing helps too, and there is plenty of young men who follow the likes of Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins as like in America, it's "counter-culture" or something. Even although racism and classism is the majority culture in the UK 🤷‍♂️

As the UK (England) goes almost completely blue at 50-64, there's as I said, another 20~30+ years of safe Tory voting. Unless England can convince its population classism is not a national treasure, shit won't seriously change. Roll out your "Tony Blair 2.0" and prove us all wrong I guess. We'll see how that works.

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Shame Scotland kept Tories in under May. 😃

 

[Audioboxer]

Shame Scotland kept Tories in under May. 😃

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A combination of stay at home SNP voters and shitty Labour voters my friend. Thank goodness we woke up in 2019.

Scottish Labour saying vote for the Tories in marginals with the SNP did not help.

 

[Ushojax]

Nah Boris only looks good cus people are ok with bigots.

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People are also OK with people who are not bigots. It's all about presentation.

 

[sfortunato]

The electorate are the issue. They chose the shittest fucking party cause they just so happen to really like the open racism. It was a choice between openly racist rich toffs who game the system for themselves or a better quality of life. They showed their colours.

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Many people that had been voting Labour for decades swung. The Labour party leaders should ask themselves why instead of blaming those people.

 

[Praetorpwj]

Corbyn was a leaver

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Corbyn is a long time leave supporter who half heartedly backed remain during the referendum.

Ironically if he'd actually strongly backed remain and if Brexit had never happened he'd have had a much better shot of beating a Cameron government in 2020 in an election fought on the legacy of austerity.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

I completely disagree, in fact it makes it even less likely this kind of insight is valuable or honest.

These kinds of hit pieces always neglect the same things:

- what, exactly, should the strategy have been
- what the other side did that was successful (lie, obfuscate and generally avoid any scrutiny)
- the fact that the UK has a massive divide across generations, which makes FPTP fall apart

the electorate has to take responsibility for voting the shitcunts in, the solution isn't to try and appeal to the racists and bigots. also big lol at them saying Berger was being targeted when she left her own seat cos she knew she'd never get reelected, the only political move made was by her.

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Thats a lot of free consulting from the journalist!

 

[Deleted member 835]

People are also OK with people who are not bigots. It's all about presentation.

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Nah, Boris was spewing bigoted shit on national tv etc. People didn't care what he said and how his speeches etc made hate crime rise. You either have to be bigoted yourself or not care to vote for Boris.

 

[Audioboxer]

Many people that had been voting Labour for decades swung. The Labour party leaders should ask themselves why instead of blaming those people.

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Swung to vote for one of the most bigoted Conservative parties of their life times, after 10 years of insane austerity and with a leader who attempts to be the UKs Donald Trump.

Aye, no responsibility for that vote should be applied at all.

If you exercise your right to vote you open yourself up to criticism. People need to fucking deal with that.

 

[Deleted member 835]

Many people that had been voting Labour for decades swung. The Labour party leaders should ask themselves why instead of blaming those people.

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Brexit

 

[sfortunato]

Swung to vote for one of the most bigoted Conservative parties of their life times, after 10 years of insane austerity and with a leader who attempts to be the UKs Donald Trump.

Aye, no responsibility for that vote should be applied at all.

If you exercise your right to vote you open yourself up to criticism. People need to fucking deal with that.

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Not all people are the same and has the same topics as priorities. There are different realities and people live different lives. If they had voted Labour forever and decided to swing the Labour party should ask why instead of blaming swingers they hadn't understood Corby's programme.

Brexit

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More likely: on the one hand you had a clear message "Get Brexit Done". On the other hand you had a very confusing and not inspiring message.

 

[alexiswrite]

People need to acknowledge that in any country like the US and England, you're going to need a whole bunch of people who are non-socially progressive to vote for you if you want to win. And I think progressive parties can appeal to this group of people without slowly turning up the "be a racist" dial. To me, the key is finding a political group identity which is super appealing to a wide range of people, Obama did this. To me, just Socialism is not that super appealing group identity.

 

[Mekanos]

Centrism and pragmatism is the answer which is why *checks notes* the Lib Dems got BTFO in this election.

 

[Deleted member 835]

Not all people are the same and has the same topics as priorities. There are different realities and people live different lives. If they had voted Labour forever and decided to swing the Labour party should ask why instead of blaming swingers they hadn't understood Corby's programme.



More likely: on the one hand you had a clear message "Get Brexit Done". On the other hand you had a very confusing and not inspiring message.

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I just think people have to accept the UK is racist as fuck. Boris's get Brexit done and shitting on minorities worked. Add that to Libs and Labour fucking each other over.

 

[Timmm]

Aspects of the manifesto were intact very good. Everyone likes to say the policy was bad but they don't bring any evidence of that to the table. Just some ramblings of "labour must move to the centre" despite their very popular policies. Now there's a good argument for the public not being ready for some of those policies ( 4 day week and free internet while good policies I think the public just aren't ready for them) and that there was no focus when it came to presenting the policies to the public and what it would mean. But it was a good manifesto. Going to the centre is not going to work.

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I think this is probably broadly true, but isn't really the answer to why Labour lost when the Tories basically ran with a manifesto of "get Brexit done" scrawled on the back of a napkin in crayon

Brexit was the thing that determined the election, and Labour were in an unwinnable position, due to a mix of FPTP, and Labour voters being much more willing to go Lib Dem to stop Brexit than Tory voters being willing to go LD/Labour than stop the Tories winning.

The problem is, those numbers won't stay the same as the population ages. The better Conservatives do now, the more the younger demographics will drift towards them.

People love winners.

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I don't think this is true at all. There will be young people drifting towards the Tories, but that is a consequence of support being so strong for Lab/SNP, naturally there is only really one way for aggregate support to drift. But unless the Tories suddenly do a 180 and reverse their policies on wealth redistribution, climate change, and treatment of minorities, the trends will hold.

People's beliefs change with generations, and the parties have to change to chase them. Just look at how the Tories were forced to start considering gay people to be human beings under Cameron vs what they did in the 80s, the idea that people get more Conservative as they age is looking at it the wrong way.

 

[SMD]

.

 

[Murfield]

God forbid placing blame on the people who are to blame

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You can have a pretty lengthy debate as to how democratic "first past the post" voting is.

 

[Midnight Jon]

Once the Corbynistas have properly digested their defeat

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while the rest of your post is pretty good as far as strategy, lmao at this particular excerpt as a concept