-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Secret dossier reveals Jeremy Corbyn’s strategy was crude and vindictive (Sunday Times UK)
- Thread starter Kirblar
- Start date
I don't necessarily disagree with you but you are arguing on a very theoretical level. In reality there is no way to win elections for labour without those racists votes. So if you don't want to turn into racists you need to find a way to get those people to vote for you.
That's not gonna happen if you have a bad candidate like corbyn, bad PR teams like labour and corbyn had(have?) and you need to stop smearing your own people because they're not pure enough leftists. Couple that with a bunch of topics that actually cater to key demographics and you'll be in a better situation.
People need to be more pragmatic and less ideology focused.
Catering to bigots is exactly what Corbyn and Labour tried this election, by focusing on leave seats. It's what this article is pointing out. It doesn't work.
That and Corbyn is way more left than Sanders. Corbyn wouldn't even be able to run in US.
You can't just sit back on this platform and attitude and hope for a "generational change" in what 20, 30 years. The "well we know we're right, let's just hope the young people all grow up and vote for us" thing isn't a realistic option. Society is gradually moving further left regardless, but within that gradual movement you're still going to have swings, and the Conservatives are following that gradual movement of societal ideologies too.
Like it or not in five years and ten years there's going to be elections that need to be fought, and they're both opportunities to if not win then gain stronger footholds within Parliament and the electorate.
Because the alternative is to let the opposition be in Government indefinitely and let that change happen even slower.
And look what happened the last time their leader called a voter a bigot, even if he was right.
Blaming people for being wrong for not voting for you is not a winning strategy.
OP
OP
Yeah, the demographics made the urban clustering vs rural spread and geographic fptp hit them even harder than we are seeing here.
You don't need to turn into racists to target key demographics.
Free broadband is nice and all but it caters mostly to demographics that already vote labour anyway.
He didn't with his policies did he? Which is my point. So many people think Labour have to go more centre just to get bigots on board. Which once again leaves behind black people like me.
Wasn't he so far left he was against the EU? Horseshoe theory is real.
Iraq was down to that specific group of people and context, not the overarching ideology of New Labour, I'd agree. It's not a reason for Momentum to hold against that wing of the party.
wait wait wait, non-UK person here. Are you telling me that Labour didn't position itself as the remain party? And that was supposed to be a good strategy because...?
How was the turnout for the "remain" voters?
At this point let me just say if this is the best yourself and other English people can argue for, can you even begin to tut-tut Scottish people for wanting to leave the UK?
My next favourite is "Once we get our Labour Government in, then we can put in progressive policy on the sly!". Totally forgetting that those you bring forward to run your Labour party, if they are hardcore Blairities, or Red Tories, will indeed run the country as if it's Tory-lite. Things like University educational for all will still be Communism. Forgetting that education is one of the best tools to lift up impoverished communities, especially minority communities. Cause the average low-income black kids family can handle 30-40k of Uni debt.
So you'll never really get any decent change anyway, other than a 5~10 year stint of Tory-lite before probably going full Tory again as the electorate has never really been properly fought/challenged.
Right, so how does this compare to what Democrats are doing in the US? I see some people saying Biden's the chosen one to defeat trump but isn't that what you're arguing against?
Labour positioned themselves on the fence and in return bled remainers and leavers.
Yeah, someone actually got paid to design this masterpiece of strategy.
Because the remain vote was spread against multiple parties, and Labour's "traditional" electorate ase was heavily leave.
Labour were between a rock and a hard place with Brexit. There wasn't a winning position for them, but at the same time them refusing to take any sort of position hurt them even more.
The EU isn't a big Corp... They go against big corps too. Corbyn is just old school Labour with a degree of isolationism.
Biden is never said to be the chosen one, but the demographics are actually in his favor. He does great with the older black community, and that's mainly why he has such a healthy lead in South Carolina, and across the nation.
Please vote for incremental change which will fail and be utterly wiped away when the right wing government's voted in because of it. Not that the approach worked the last time their tried it. Gotta love this far left gaming forum.
Technically more people voted for "Remain" parties than they did for "Leave" parties too in this election.
"Like it or not" is fine to propose to me if you want, because I will be campaigning to breakup the UK and leave you in your position of "like it" whilst watching on if England escapes classism/Conservative reign in a timely manner which you seem to think is possible.
I personally think it will take around 20~30 years of fighting and the need for the Queen to die and the Royal Family to be further marginalised in English living. The classism in England is fucking wild. It's approaching American levels of "fuck you, got mine". It is a kind of beast that takes generations of education and political fighting to minimise.
The Times you say? No thanks, I'd sooner trust the toilet paper I've just wiped my arse with to provide anything believable on anything related to Corbyn.
Too many leave supporting labour voters and MPs presumably. Fuck them all tbh.
Too many leave supporting labour voters and MPs presumably. Fuck them all tbh.
The only thing we know isn't going to happen is Corbyn in No. 10.
The voting system the UK uses in general election is partly based on land (similar to the electoral college for president in the USA). Leave won in a really high proportion of constituencies, like 70% or something, on only 52% of the vote.
A general election fought mainly on Brexit was a losing proposition for Labour. They had to hope that traditional Labour voters would hate the Tories enough to still side against them, even though they were promising to "get Brexit done", while enough Tory voters were prepared to hold their nose and vote Labour because the alternative is Johnson setting the economy on fire.
No offence mate but i don't think the kind of change you're looking for is ever gonna get voted into a large european country so this all or nothing attitude a lot of people have is gonna get us nowhere but more conservative goverments.
I have no kind words for the Labour election strategy. Utterly, totally bonkers, designed to give the Tories as large a majority as possible.
I've seen a lot of political action plans in my day.
Ones like this result when ideology and loyalty are valued above everything else.
It's rarely a recipe for success.
Ones like this result when ideology and loyalty are valued above everything else.
It's rarely a recipe for success.
Thankfully we are all adults who are able to discuss individual accomplishments and failures of such complex matters like foreign and domestic policy and don't resort to GOP-esque mentally lazy killer argument/ "gotchas" when discussing said individual and somewhat self contained policy achievements/ failures on their own merits.
The Iraq war is is very much relevant if you want to address Blair's premiership as a whole or his foreign policy in particular ( similar to Obama and dronestrikes) but it is so fucking mentally lazy to shout "dead Iraqis !!!" at someone talking about his domestic policies and his ability to get elected in the first place.
Like, you can hate Blair/Obama all you want as persons/ for their foreign policy
but that doesn't mean that there isn't merit in analysing and learning from flawed or even failed individuals.
The Iraq war is is very much relevant if you want to address Blair's premiership as a whole or his foreign policy in particular ( similar to Obama and dronestrikes) but it is so fucking mentally lazy to shout "dead Iraqis !!!" at someone talking about his domestic policies and his ability to get elected in the first place.
Like, you can hate Blair/Obama all you want as persons/ for their foreign policy
but that doesn't mean that there isn't merit in analysing and learning from flawed or even failed individuals.
As an american, it baffles me that Labour was not a remain party or really had any hardline stance on Brexit.
OP
OP
It's not. I don't think any of the candidates, even Sanders, are arguing for the type of campaign that was done here. You absolutely should be triaging areas that you're losing support in, it just shouldn't be at the cost of actively pushing into enemy territory that's moving your direction. (As pointed out in PoliERA, THE OC now has a majority Dem registration for the first time ever, a year after every single House seat in the country flipped GOP->Dem)
The Biden argument is that he's uniquely good at triaging those areas (his poll numbers among people who don't like either him or Trump are actually like 80/8 compared to Hillary's 35/65 or something like that, so there's a real argument for it in the crosstabs) but both Warren and Sanders would also be attempting to walk and chew gum. The thing about Labour's approach here is that they decided to run while chucking the gum under a bus.
I'm not a politician. I'm not a labour member or a member of any political party. I don't "win" or "lose" elections.
It'd be like if Democrats decided not to have any position whatsoever on healthcare. Its choosing to ignore a key relevant issue for... reasons.
This. My dream ticket would be Keir Starmer as leader and Jess Philips as deputy and a set of electable, progressive policies (and as little influence from Unite as possible) to get Boris out. If that makes me a red Tory, so be it.
Not really. Blair started the shitting on benefits as well. Then blamed immigrants for not integrating even though integrating is a 2 way street. Blair was the start of the country being even more trash. People not effected by Blair just see him as some sort of god. Not all flawed people should be kept around to chat shit all time. But because Blair is a white guy he is allowed to still have his views platformed, which white people love.
I mean they had a policy but it was that they're gonna do a different deal with the EU on it but don't argue for it or against it in the referendum about the deal.
Their policy was just dumb as rock.
Jess Phillips is transphobic and is racist... she will do well in the UK
OP
OP
After experiencing 08, 16 and part of 20, "way too loyal to people they need to cut" has become a mega gigantic red flag for me.
If no one in the US is advocating for a Corbyn style strategy how is this result something Democrats should pay attention to? If anything Biden is closest to the idea of seriously targeting WWC voters. I'm not sure why you brought up Hillary she's irrelevant now. I'd be curious to see crosstabs for Bernie/trump and warren/trump where neither are well liked.
Fair enough, now you probably know how it feels to be Scottish and never vote Tory majority but our lovely Union keeps voting for Tories.
Until England gets rid of the Queen/monarchy, I doubt it will ever change. You seen that in the polls. Corbyn winning "most like the people" and "trustworthy", losing "prime ministerial".
Because the country values the perception of upper-class above all. Hence how hilarious the Turkeys voting for Christmas meme is to describe working-class Labour voters who went Tory. But don't apply any accountability to them after 10 years of Tory and the Universal credit/homelessness and austerity disgrace!
Once we get Brexit I'm sure Universal Credit will be much better, its that pesky EU and the immigrants draining it.
Last edited:
