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Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
I've been beaten down by the apostrophe police, I usually don't even try to include it anymore on anything that is machine read.
What's worse is that even the apostrophe is a workaround because of the general inability of more older systems/institutions (especially ones depending on typewriters and typesetters) to write or recognise a fada. So now even the workaround is causing problems that need to be worked around.

And even though modern systems should be able to handle any standard accented character without a problem, they still end up causing all kinds of random issues.

Humorously, my current job set up my email including the apostrophe. Somehow the system allowed it to happen, but it caused plenty of problems lol.
Had the same thing happen at a previous job, it got caught immediately and sent back to be changed before it had a chance to break anything. Problem there is that some systems are okay with it and some are not.

I didn't even know Lee was an Irish surname
As with many one-syllable names, it's a sound that appeared in a lot of languages, so there's multiple places that have it as a surname.

I went to school with a Dorran and a guy called William Kell, my mum works with someone with the surname McHarg. This is in Scotland and are fairly common, I don't think they are spelling mistakes, just names that do exist.
Hmm, I suppose that makes sense for some of them. Things like "Sheriadan" and "Mongons" are definitely spelling mistakes though.

Is Lee a common Irish name?
Not particularly common, but not unusual.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
I thought I would see a list of actual individuals. But blanket bans on last names? Really?
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,077
Arkansas, USA
My paternal grandmother's maiden name is up there. It isn't very common in the US. This might be the first time I've seen it outside of family context.
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,746
The full list is in an article linked in this one:
PRI_184753506.jpg

Maybe it's because I'm American (With an Irish last name no less, though not one on this list), but it's ridiculous how common some of these names are, I mean Murphy, really?
source.gif
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,197
This looks like the usual anti-traveller racism you see everywhere, sadly.
I don't doubt it's compounded with a specifically British anti-Irish sentiment on top of that, obviously.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,624
The "what century is this" posts get old after like the bajillionth time. At what point does it become obvious that we're not past discrimination and it doesn't matter what year it is? Every time I see it I get annoyed. If you are that unaccustomed to discrimination, you are part of the privileged groups that benefit from it.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,874
Wow this is pretty interesting. My last names sullivan I wonder if that's on the list. I'm obviously very fortunate, here in the states anti irish sentiment seems to have halted a ways back so obviously I've never dealt with anything negative concerning my name, but I have heard stories about certain places that aren't particularly found of the irish.
 

Akela

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,848
white on white racism is quite fervent, and ready to surface with the slightest nudge.

you should hear how some Finnish people talk of Russians for example, sheesh.. i've heard the vilest things, from many who claim to be liberal even. things i don't even want to repeat.

edit: just saying from a euro perspective, dunno about American whites really. maybe they're all unified and only hate non-whites.

Super common in the UK. Basically any community of people who have immigrated or live in the UK in a vaguely noticeable number have been the target of discrimination. Irish people, Polish people, basically any Eastern European community, etc. Sometimes even people from Scotland and Wales, especially when language is involved.

All feeds into the insular, ethno-nationalist ideology that many people in the UK share. Brexit was driven by anti-European immigration just as much as immigration from outside the EU.
 
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Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
The full list is in an article linked in this one:
PRI_184753506.jpg

Maybe it's because I'm American (With an Irish last name no less, though not one on this list), but it's ridiculous how common some of these names are, I mean Murphy, really?
We should compile a lost of famous people with these surnames.

Colin O'Donoghue, Christopher Nolan, Fred Ward, Alec McGuinnes, etc...
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,964
The full list is in an article linked in this one:
PRI_184753506.jpg

Maybe it's because I'm American (With an Irish last name no less, though not one on this list), but it's ridiculous how common some of these names are, I mean Murphy, really?
The fact that they tried to put a cute funny meme image on top makes it especially disgusting to look at. It's not like it's even treating this as a joke, it's just naked racism being treated as normally as a dumb work bulletin.

Second, that list is laser targeted. It's not trying to hide what it is at all.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
The full list is in an article linked in this one:
PRI_184753506.jpg

Maybe it's because I'm American (With an Irish last name no less, though not one on this list), but it's ridiculous how common some of these names are, I mean Murphy, really?
Better to exclude every possibility than even risk indulging one Irish person in the mind of these bigots.
 

Akela

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,848
Brexit? Anti Irish sentiment has existed since the partition.

I grew up at the dying ebbs of the Troubles and stuff like Manchester and Soho were events that stoked huge anti Irish sentiments that haven't gone away in many quarters.

This list will have been going for a *long time*.

Not to mention the anti traveller stuff that is literally endemic here. One way to spot a Tory is to ask them what they think of travellers. They're scapegoats for *everything*.

It's not just Tories that share those views, you'll find many people on the "left-wing" side that share similar views. So many people from traditionally Labour voting areas voted for UKIP and Brexit - for many of the same reasons that Conservative-leaning people did. Racism in the UK is bigger then any one party or ideology.
 

Stefarno

I ... survived Sedona
Member
Oct 27, 2017
893
I used to live in Morecambe and stuff like this happens everywhere there.

It got some attention last year because Tyson Fury shared footage of a doorman saying they were refusing entry to all travellers, but before that absolutely no-one gave a shit.
 
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Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,698
my last name is irish but it is exceedingly uncommon, originating in a tiny area of cork
 

koolaroo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
292
I've been beaten down by the apostrophe police, I usually don't even try to include it anymore on anything that is machine read. Humorously, my current job set up my email including the apostrophe. Somehow the system allowed it to happen, but it caused plenty of problems lol.
Weird side note but this might actually be a security feature. You can do some nasty things to databases with special characters (non alpha-numeric characters) never though of the effect that has on parsing people's names.
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,169
I still don't really understand this one. I've read the whole thread but I feel like I'm missing key context here.
 

Herne

Member
Dec 10, 2017
5,309
Anti-Irish sentiment in Britain has never really gone away. Back during Brexit negotiations particularly you had a lot of British people saying that Ireland should shut the hell up in the EU and stop blocking them.

Then there's this kind of thinking which reveals a hell of an ignorance of Irish history and British involvement throughout -

luPzdnN.jpg
 

SlickShoes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,769
What's worse is that even the apostrophe is a workaround because of the general inability of more older systems/institutions (especially ones depending on typewriters and typesetters) to write or recognise a fada. So now even the workaround is causing problems that need to be worked around.

And even though modern systems should be able to handle any standard accented character without a problem, they still end up causing all kinds of random issues.


Had the same thing happen at a previous job, it got caught immediately and sent back to be changed before it had a chance to break anything. Problem there is that some systems are okay with it and some are not.


As with many one-syllable names, it's a sound that appeared in a lot of languages, so there's multiple places that have it as a surname.


Hmm, I suppose that makes sense for some of them. Things like "Sheriadan" and "Mongons" are definitely spelling mistakes though.


Not particularly common, but not unusual.

Aye some of the names are also pretty generic ones too, still a shit list even if we are nitpicking it. I don't think the folks at pontins are very smart so probably misspelled a good few haha
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,169

Yeah, it helps. I think its just my perspective as a cultural outsider that makes this really hard to wrap my head around — I can't imagine a business being so petty as to just bar certain last names, but there must be a whole emotional level to whatever is going on that I'm simply not a part of. (Also probably a lot of socioeconomic stuff I'm simply oblivious to.)
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
9,604
This is truly horrible, wow. I honestly had no idea that anti-Irish bigotry was still a thing these days...


The list of banned names is surprising as well, considering that none of my friends with known or strong Irish heritage have these last names (admittedly I can only think of like 10 people I have known through the years) but I know people without known/strong Irish heritage with these names as well (particularly Keefe, Gallagher, Doherty and Murphy)
 
OP
OP
Sqrt

Sqrt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,880
Anti-Irish sentiment in Britain has never really gone away. Back during Brexit negotiations particularly you had a lot of British people saying that Ireland should shut the hell up in the EU and stop blocking them.

Then there's this kind of thinking which reveals a hell of an ignorance of Irish history and British involvement throughout -

luPzdnN.jpg
No words...
This is why teaching history is important.
 

MoosGoMoo

Banned
Jan 27, 2021
717
User Banned (1 Month): Excusing Ethnic Discrimination
Yeah, it helps. I think its just my perspective as a cultural outsider that makes this really hard to wrap my head around — I can't imagine a business being so petty as to just bar certain last names, but there must be a whole emotional level to whatever is going on that I'm simply not a part of. (Also probably a lot of socioeconomic stuff I'm simply oblivious to.)
I'm not familiar with this company but I would guess they probably had some bad experiences with travellers (the dodgy ones can be really dodgy) and this is an ill-advised blanket ban to try and prevent it from happening again.
 

8bit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,390
I'm on the list, though I'm Scottish and I think the Irish ancestors moved to Scotland over 100 years ago. Anyway, Pontins is probably the last place on Earth I would ever consider for a holiday. Surprised it's still in business tbh.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
I guess with so many people openly embracing fascism nowadays, you can afford to throw a few white/white-adjacent groups under the bus.
You can include Ireland itself in this discrimination, which, by the way, is endemic in Ireland too.

www.theguardian.com

Irish outrage at Pontins obscures the truth about anti-Traveller racism | Séamas O'Reilly

The reaction to the UK company’s surname blacklist shouldn’t overshadow Ireland’s own discrimination against Travellers, says Derry-based writer Séamas O’Reilly

Reframing Pontins' discrimination as lingering anti-Irish sentiment in Britain allows us to adopt the comforting mantle of the aggrieved, handily side-stepping the fact that toxic anti-Mincéir attitudes in Ireland are not merely commonplace, but ubiquitous.

A 2017 survey found that just 9% of Irish people would be happy to accept Mincéirí into their extended family, while the same poll found that 70% of Mincéirí had experienced discrimination from the gardai, and more than half from pub or hotel staff. Dr Sindy Joyce, writing for the European Roma Rights Centre, explains that Mincéirí routinely suffer job and health discrimination, their life expectancy is still akin to that of the broader Irish population in 1945, and they are seven times more likely to die from suicide

Let's not forget that the targets of this are not Irish people. As evidenced by the fact that the blacklist was only enacted for *non Irish addresses*. So if you had an Irish name and were travelling to a Pontins from *Ireland*, this did not apply. It was specifically targeted against the Irish travelling community and losing sight of this doesn't help anyone.
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,933
Wow cool to know I'm not desired as a guest at this shitty place. Glad I've never been and now never will. Not even Irish btw, my grandmother's parents were but she lived her whole life in England and so did my parents and my family. But nice to see they not only hate people for stupid reasons but also hate their business for the stupidest of reasons.

To clarify as well, I'm not a traveler, so the fact they've decided that Irish family names would mean that is even more stupid.
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
You can include Ireland itself in this discrimination, which, by the way, is endemic in Ireland too.

www.theguardian.com

Irish outrage at Pontins obscures the truth about anti-Traveller racism | Séamas O'Reilly

The reaction to the UK company’s surname blacklist shouldn’t overshadow Ireland’s own discrimination against Travellers, says Derry-based writer Séamas O’Reilly



Let's not forget that the targets of this are not Irish people. As evidenced by the fact that the blacklist was only enacted for *non Irish addresses*. So if you had an Irish name and were travelling to a Pontins from *Ireland*, this did not apply. It was specifically targeted against the Irish travelling community and losing sight of this doesn't help anyone.

Well yes but a surname alone doesn't determine if someone is a traveller.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
Well yes but a surname alone doesn't determine if someone is a traveller.
Please read what I wrote. I addressed this.

People travelling from Ireland were specifically spared the blacklisting.

It was aimed at people travelling from within the UK with known addresses of travelling communities or other address methods used by them.

The headlines and the reality are different, the names are only part of how this system was arranged.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,659
You can include Ireland itself in this discrimination, which, by the way, is endemic in Ireland too.

www.theguardian.com

Irish outrage at Pontins obscures the truth about anti-Traveller racism | Séamas O'Reilly

The reaction to the UK company’s surname blacklist shouldn’t overshadow Ireland’s own discrimination against Travellers, says Derry-based writer Séamas O’Reilly



Let's not forget that the targets of this are not Irish people. As evidenced by the fact that the blacklist was only enacted for *non Irish addresses*. So if you had an Irish name and were travelling to a Pontins from *Ireland*, this did not apply. It was specifically targeted against the Irish travelling community and losing sight of this doesn't help anyone.
It seems weird then to target travelers by use of surname then and not specifically based on address, especially within a pandemic where you might be able to get away with a blanket ban under such pretenses. It's doubly-weird then because the ban list apparently includes really common Irish surnames in it, and not the specific surname within the article (which accounts for less then 0.1% of residents). I know bigotry is inherently irrational, but this one at face value is over my head.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
It seems weird then to target travelers by use of surname then and not specifically based on address, especially within a pandemic where you might be able to get away with a blanket ban under such pretenses. It's doubly-weird then because the ban list apparently includes really common Irish surnames in it, and not the specific surname within the article (which accounts for less then 0.1% of residents). I know bigotry is inherently irrational, but this one at face value is over my head.
It's absolutely fucking crazy is what it is and anyone who knows Brittania hotels knows that they're a bunch of cowboys. This probably applies to the main group too and is just as bizarre. The pandemic would be a good excuse if this wasn't a policy that has probably existed for the best part of a decade and longer at Brittania itself

Essentially the names were used as a filter, which then likely flagged up to check that they weren't at an address known as a travelling community use.

As absolutely horrible as it is (And as my family have roma heritage, I know what this sort of discrimination is like), it isn't what the headlines say.

This isn't an example of Irish hatred (And trust me, The Tories do that well enough as it is), although the headlines initially were not made with the full story at hand and I can forgive them for it.