Scorn dev on targeting 60fps - " We also feel that responsiveness should be as important on consoles"

Theorry · May 30, 2020

Why are you targeting 60FPS for Scorn? Does that mean there'll be a lot of combat in the game, thus requiring smooth controls?

For PC players with keyboard and mouse 60FPS is simply a necessity. We also feel that responsiveness should be as important on consoles. It's the players direct communication with the game. Even if you are just talking about graphical fidelity, when a game runs at 30FPS you start losing the established details once the camera starts moving.

Scorn Interview - Xbox Series X Is a 'Very Balanced System'; Trailer Was Running on an RTX 2080Ti

We talk to the Game Director of Scorn. He claims that the Xbox Series X is a very balanced system and clarifies the GPU used in the trailer.

wccftech.com

I agree. Give me as much 60fps next gen and not only shooters and racing games.

Wariobenotware · May 30, 2020

All games should be 60FPS.

chrisypoo · May 30, 2020

Wariobenotware said:
All games should be 60FPS.

As a bare minimum, yes.

souppboy · May 30, 2020

While I understand why developers target looks over the framerate, the aspect of next generation that excites me most is current gen games getting fps boosts and tweaks for ps5. Thats kind of the dream for me and would entice me from PC and feel like I don't just use it to play with close friends

Teenage Fansub · May 30, 2020

But if it was 24fps it'd be even more like Alien :)

scaryrobots · May 30, 2020

souppboy said:
While I understand why developers target looks over the framerate, the aspect of next generation that excites me most is current gen games getting fps boosts and tweaks for ps5. Thats kind of the dream for me and would entice me from PC and feel like I don't just use it to play with close friends

Right now I have no interest in ps5, but if they say: bloodborne will run at 60 - I'm gonna get one.

.exe · May 30, 2020

Good! The vast majority of games involves you playing them, so of course 60 fps should be the standard. It just feels better to play, even if it's not an action game.

Messofanego · May 30, 2020

The developer says they haven't had much time to employ the new technologies for Xbox One X as they just got a few weeks ago so I'm wondering if this was mainly a funding deal to get them enough resources to finish the game like it usually is for most Indies. Now they have 40 people on the team.

"In 2014 there were basically only 4 of us, in 2015 it was double that, in 2017 it was 20, and now we have 40 employees. That's what creates confusion in people's minds
regarding why it's taking so long."

texhnolyze · May 30, 2020

Wariobenotware said:
All games should be 60FPS.

Not all games, as turn-based ones don't really need it.

But yes, most action games should be 60fps, as it's the fact that 60fps brings more responsiveness and less input latency. Your regular "I'm fine with 30fps" just doesn't cut it anymore, because that's just an opinion.

Tarantism · May 30, 2020

Key sentence for me from the interview:
" Even if you are just talking about graphical fidelity, when a game runs at 30FPS you start losing the established details once the camera starts moving"

60fps means better graphical fidelity. It's not just about responsiveness.
Bloodborne looks great in stills but it gets really blurry once the camera starts moving.

The debate between "image quality or framerate" is not as simple as that, higher framerates mean better image quality as well. I know good motion blur and post processing can mitigate this but at the moment it always looks better to hit 60fps.

Pottuvoi · May 30, 2020

Tarantism said:
Key sentence for me from the interview:
" Even if you are just talking about graphical fidelity, when a game runs at 30FPS you start losing the established details once the camera starts moving"

60fps means better graphical fidelity. It's not just about responsiveness.
Bloodborne looks great in stills but it gets really blurry once the camera starts moving.

The debate between "image quality or framerate" is not as simple as that, higher framerates mean better image quality as well. I know good motion blur and post processing can mitigate this but at the moment it always looks better to hit 60fps.

Yup.

Motion resolution is very important.
Really hope that next generation 2D games will support 120fps.
60hz is quite blurry during fast scrolling on modern sample and hold displays.

Razors4edge · May 30, 2020

This Dev has understood it. I tried the 4K30 option in Nioh 2, but I had to change back to 1080p60 in less than a minute, even with standing still almost felt different, with a small upgrade in image quality (C9 here, and I have good eyes), but a slight turn in camera makes it so different in a bad way. There are some games that are ok in 30fps, like Pokemon Sword. Feels over eyecandy. But native 4K60 is way better than 1080p60.

Adulfzen · May 30, 2020

while I don't believe all devs will target 60 fps (especially for big open world games), it'd be nice if it became more of a trend because a game with a good framerate will age way better than a game with good visuals imo.

Linus815 · May 30, 2020

Tarantism said:
Key sentence for me from the interview:
" Even if you are just talking about graphical fidelity, when a game runs at 30FPS you start losing the established details once the camera starts moving"

60fps means better graphical fidelity. It's not just about responsiveness.
Bloodborne looks great in stills but it gets really blurry once the camera starts moving.

The debate between "image quality or framerate" is not as simple as that, higher framerates mean better image quality as well. I know good motion blur and post processing can mitigate this but at the moment it always looks better to hit 60fps.

it drives me crazy how 30 fps vs 60+ fps debates rarely mention motion clarity, when its such a big contributor to visuals during active gameplay.

pswii60 · May 30, 2020

texhnolyze said:
Not all games, as turn-based ones don't really need it.

Navigating through menus absolutely benefits from the lower latency of 60fps.

In fact, it's the pause/options menu when the latency of a 30fps lock becomes even more obvious. When you navigate through the same menu at 60fps it feels completely different. And 120fps is a big jump further again.

Higher framerates change how literally everything feels.

Dictator · May 30, 2020

Pottuvoi said:
Yup.

Motion resolution is very important.
Really hope that next generation 2D games will support 120fps.
60hz is quite blurry during fast scrolling on modern sample and hold displays.

I really hope for that too. Especially since microsoft will be having much more official support for 120hz modes. I also hope the Fighting Games starts to offer 120hz modes.

pswii60 said:
Navigating through menus absolutely benefits from the lower latency of 60fps.

Absolutely!

Theorry · May 30, 2020

Linus815 said:
it drives me crazy how 30 fps vs 60+ fps debates rarely mention motion clarity, when its such a big contributor to visuals during active gameplay.

Because alot of talk is with screens or photomode and "see how great this game looks'

knight714 · May 30, 2020

It'd be good to see a lot of console games offering the choice - 1080p and 60fps or 4k (native or checkerboard) and 30fps

PennyStonks · May 30, 2020

Dictator said:
I really hope for that too. Especially since microsoft will be having much more official support for 120hz modes. I also hope the Fighting Games starts to offer 120hz modes.

CoD 2020 at 120fps on a console would be big big big.

Lom1lo · May 30, 2020

Theorry said:
Because alot of talk is with screens or photomode and "see how great this game looks'

You forgot those tiny gifs

Pottuvoi · May 30, 2020

pswii60 said:
Navigating through menus absolutely benefits from the lower latency of 60fps.

In fact, it's the pause/options menu when the latency of a 30fps lock becomes even more obvious. When you navigate through the same menu at 60fps it feels completely different. And 120fps is a big jump further again.

Higher framerates change how literally everything feels.

It would be lovely if GUI would always run at refreshrate independent of rest of the game framerate.

Dictator said:
I really hope for that too. Especially since microsoft will be having much more official support for 120hz modes. I also hope the Fighting Games starts to offer 120hz modes.

Absolutely!

Oh, yes.

Fighting games would be perfect fit for 120fps.

Scottoest · May 30, 2020

I'd like to see more 60fps games, but I'm also still fine with some 30fps games if the visual tradeoff is spectacular enough to be worth it.

Ciao · May 30, 2020

Please always sacrifice graphics in favor of framerate. Fluid gameplay>>>>>>>>>>>shiny textures or fancy postprocess or ultra detailed geometry.

Detective Pidgey · May 30, 2020

60fps is fantastic and I honestly don't need it higher than that, I just see no reason. But I am not sure every single game needs it. Let's say a open world RPG with tons of NPCs, details, physics, weather systems.....can that run at 60fps? I'm sure it can but I am also pretty sure it won't look nearly as impressive as if it's in 30fps.

dreamstation · May 30, 2020

Finally someone gets it. I'll take 60FPS with lower resolution/graphics every day of the week.

Mars People · May 30, 2020

Sadly the vast majority of the game playing public know shit all about framerate and why higher is always better.

ConHaki66 · May 30, 2020

Detective Pidgey said:
60fps is fantastic and I honestly don't need it higher than that, I just see no reason. But I am not sure every single game needs it. Let's say a open world RPG with tons of NPCs, details, physics, weather systems.....can that run at 60fps? I'm sure it can but I am also pretty sure it won't look nearly as impressive as if it's in 30fps.

Witcher 3 at 60 FPS+ is a different game, what you are getting is much more valuable than looking a little better in a still

Vitamin_B_Complex · May 30, 2020

texhnolyze said:
Not all games, as turn-based ones don't really need it.

But yes, most action games should be 60fps, as it's the fact that 60fps brings more responsiveness and less input latency. Your regular "I'm fine with 30fps" just doesn't cut it anymore, because that's just an opinion.

Nah, even Persona looks much better at 60. I turned on motion interpolation on my TV while playing it just to see what it would look like. And roaming the streets looked amazing and combat animations too. Sadly the lag is pretty annoying with such a menu heavy game.

Big Shirley · May 30, 2020

Tarantism said:
Key sentence for me from the interview:
" Even if you are just talking about graphical fidelity, when a game runs at 30FPS you start losing the established details once the camera starts moving"

60fps means better graphical fidelity. It's not just about responsiveness.
Bloodborne looks great in stills but it gets really blurry once the camera starts moving.

The debate between "image quality or framerate" is not as simple as that, higher framerates mean better image quality as well. I know good motion blur and post processing can mitigate this but at the moment it always looks better to hit 60fps.

Totally agree. It's not a simple trade off between frame rate and fidelity, not once the game starts moving. 60 fps looks way better.

God of War looks better at 1080p 60fps (sort of) than 4k 30 fps imo, because you can actually see the graphics so much more clearly at a higher frame rate.

I really do think it's time all action games go with 60 fps now. I appreciate that Microsoft at least has been pushing it, hopefully they follow through once they reveal their first party games in July.

Lkr · May 30, 2020

All games should be 60
I remember when ps360 gen started and it took a few years for madden to get back to 60fps on 360 and a couple more on ps3! It's just too obvious you've been playing at 60 when it gets cut in half

Big Shirley · May 30, 2020

Mars People said:
Sadly the vast majority of the game playing public know shit all about framerate and why higher is always better.

Do they need to though? 60 looks so much better in videos, which is the main medium for promoting games now as opposed to screens, that they can see the benefit even if they don't know what's driving it.

Bede-x · May 30, 2020

pswii60 said:
Navigating through menus absolutely benefits from the lower latency of 60fps.

In fact, it's the pause/options menu when the latency of a 30fps lock becomes even more obvious. When you navigate through the same menu at 60fps it feels completely different. And 120fps is a big jump further again.

Higher framerates change how literally everything feels.

And in some turn based games you still move the camera around, which looks horrible at 30fps in comparison to 60fps, so they too should aim for it. Games not only look better, they play better at 60fps.

Detective Pidgey · May 30, 2020

ConHaki66 said:
Witcher 3 at 60 FPS+ is a different game, what you are getting is much more valuable than looking a little better in a still

Not for me. Not on my 65 inch C9. I immediately see the difference in clarity. For me the resolution mode is the way to go in that game.

Gatsbits · May 30, 2020

In the 80's and 90's , 90% of consoles and arcade video games was 60fps cuz it was the way to play video game : fluidity for the eyes and responsivity for the gameplay. Then , arrived the 3D consoles ....

60fps should be standard.

pswii60 · May 30, 2020

Detective Pidgey said:
Not for me. Not on my 65 inch C9. I immediately see the difference in clarity. For me the resolution mode is the way to go in that game.

"Resolution mode"? Are you talking about the X version? Because the framerate mode there only has an unlocked 30-60fps mode and it runs at a lowly 1080p. Now play it at a locked 60fps+ on PC at a decent resolution and you'll see how it feels completely different to consoles, especially where combat is concerned.

Detective Pidgey · May 30, 2020

pswii60 said:
"Resolution mode"? Are you talking about the X version? Because the framerate mode there only has an unlocked 30-60fps mode and it runs at a lowly 1080p. Now play it at a locked 60fps+ on PC at a decent resolution and you'll see how it feels completely different to consoles, especially where combat is concerned.

Yep, Xbox One X. I can only imagine how amazing Witcher 3 is at a resolution higher than 1080p at 60fps. I hope so much XSX will do this right out of the box for the game, it should in the performance mode. I think you told me in the previous thread about that.

60fps is lovely, going from Halo 4 to 5 or Battlefront is a world of difference but I'm also a graphics whore and if given the choice between the best visuals you can imagine in a RPG or 60fps with significantly less visual bells and whistles.....i go for the former. But that's probably also where dynamic resolutions and reconstruction techniques come into play.

Theorry · May 30, 2020

To be fair i dont know how much better Gears 5 could have looked and that was 60fps. Sure there are some settings lower. But it not like going between 4k and 1080p when everything comes blurry.

Rabalder. · May 30, 2020

Any FPS that's not targeting 60 on these new machines will be getting major side eye from me.

theAllseeingEYE · May 30, 2020

knight714 said:
It'd be good to see a lot of console games offering the choice - 1080p and 60fps or 4k (native or checkerboard) and 30fps

There's no reason a 4k 30fps game would have to go down to 1080p to hit 60fps. 1440p 60fps is what devs should strive for, then reconstruct the image back up to 4k, or downsample it to 1080p.

Unless a game is incredibly CPU intensive, there's really no reason anymore for devs not to have a 60fps mode, this should be standard, let us choose, and devs should build thier games to scale well for future hardware (dynamic res and other dynamic graphical features, image reconstruction, unlocked framerate options for example).

KKRT · May 30, 2020

texhnolyze said:
Not all games, as turn-based ones don't really need it.

I disagree, even without touching upon navigating UI, in almost all of those you still move the camera and it feels just worse in 30fps. I mean its playable, but it doesnt feel great.

Barkspawn · May 30, 2020

.exe said:
Good! The vast majority of games involves you playing them, so of course 60 fps should be the standard. It just feels better to play, even if it's not an action game.

I would argue that even cutscenes benefit from 60 fps. Everything looks so much clearer and smoother when in motion.

Theorry · May 30, 2020

Barkspawn said:
I would argue that even cutscenes benefit from 60 fps. Everything looks so much clearer and smoother when in motion.

Jup. Switching in Gears 5 from gameplay to cutscene was a big difference.

HStallion · May 30, 2020

Messofanego said:
The developer says they haven't had much time to employ the new technologies for Xbox One X as they just got a few weeks ago so I'm wondering if this was mainly a funding deal to get them enough resources to finish the game like it usually is for most Indies. Now they have 40 people on the team.

"In 2014 there were basically only 4 of us, in 2015 it was double that, in 2017 it was 20, and now we have 40 employees. That's what creates confusion in people's minds
regarding why it's taking so long."

I'm really curious as the history of this game and developer. A few years back it sounded like this was going to be a PSVR game though that may have just been unsubstantiated rumors.

Dreams-Visions · May 30, 2020

Scorn dev on targeting 60fps - " We also feel that responsiveness should be as important on consoles"

Alt Account

Digital Foundry

Alt Account

Comics Council 2020

Alt Account

Alt Account

Prophet of Regret