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delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
19,697
Boston, MA








We can probably say, with the exception of Nvidia's fuck-up, Nintendo has a highly secure Switch OS kernel now, and thus, it is likely you will never see any software exploits for Mariko Switches at all.

I think we can drop the waiting game for a jig-less "boothax" exploit now.
 

Theswweet

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,418
California
I feel like it's worth noting that his Xbox One comparison is flawed - nobody is looking for Xbox exploits when you can literally make your box a dev unit and do homebrew with no real caveats.
 

Borman

Digital Games Curator at The Strong Museum
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
844
I feel like it's worth noting that his Xbox One comparison is flawed - nobody is looking for Xbox exploits when you can literally make your box a dev unit and do homebrew with no real caveats.
There was a lot of time spent toying around with Microsoft Internal dev kit boards too (without some of the restrictions of the normal dev kit or user dev kit), all of which got scrapped when people got caught.
 

Theswweet

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,418
California
There was a lot of time spent toying around with Microsoft Internal dev kit boards too (without some of the restrictions of the normal dev kit or user dev kit), all of which got scrapped when people got caught.

Oh, I'm aware that folks *were* looking for exploits early on, but the point still stands - it's probably not that exploits don't exist, it's that nobody cares enough to try when homebrew is all but officially sanctioned.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,264
Oh, I'm aware that folks *were* looking for exploits early on, but the point still stands - it's probably not that exploits don't exist, it's that nobody cares enough to try when homebrew is all but officially sanctioned.
Yeah, allowing homebrew on their consoles as an expansion of the 360 XNA idea pretty much killed any motivation of "hacking to have homebrew".
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,205
Maybe first gen Switch Pro's (if that's real) will have a software exploit, but that's impressive how locked down the Switch has been.

But I had a launch Switch and never felt the need to hack it. As cool as it would have been to have Android running on it (I already own some Nvidia Shield games like Portal and HL2), I have so many Switch games that I'd rather just play those.

Plus it required that dongle thing to do it and the launch Switch's battery life was so weak it wasn't very inticing to hack.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,383
There was exploits people had, but were sold off, Nintendo & Sony will pay you quite a bit if you find an exploit for them.
The homebrew community & i might as well include the modding community in this also, are a lot more monetized than yesteryears.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
Oh, I'm aware that folks *were* looking for exploits early on, but the point still stands - it's probably not that exploits don't exist, it's that nobody cares enough to try when homebrew is all but officially sanctioned.
Officially sanctioned homebrew is probably one of the most effective ways to deter people from trying to break into a console OS.

Nintendo seems to be doing pretty good for themselves just by keeping things simple and having a bug bounty, though.
 

Atheerios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,099
Yeah, after fucking it up so many times in the past, Nintendo actually did a great job with the Switch security this time.

Nvidia: lol
 

Deleted member 11008

User requested account closure
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,627
The only reason I got a non-Mariko Switch in June 2019 is for this. When the next Switch is released that machine will turn in a hombrew machine.
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,697
Panama
i have my launch Switch still around if i ever want to mess around with homebrew (no desire atm)

seems they really took their failures on Wii, Wii U and 3DS to heart.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
i have my launch Switch still around if i ever want to mess around with homebrew (no desire atm)

seems they really took their failures on Wii, Wii U and 3DS to heart.
I think it's more they scolded out Nvidia for the security hole and got them to fix it while further strengthening their own firmware.

The current switches can still be hardmodded, lets be clear, but now it's not so easy anymore.
 

Roo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,049
seems they really took their failures on Wii, Wii U and 3DS to heart.
With those systems it was like Nintendo went to sleep with the front door wide open lol

I still don't fully believe someone won't be able to find a software hacking solution for Mariko but it's good to know Nintendo/nvidia at least put some effort trying to keep hacking at bay.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,494
That's why I have a clean Switch with my main account, with all my games and online connectivity, and a hacked Switch for all my homebrew and experiments that I keep online all the time (self-banning to prevent a ban!). Overclocking with Tesla Overlay is great for some titles, plus portable RetroArch <3

Person: "You'll never be able to hack thing."
Thing: *gets hacked*

Well, yes. The same was said of the Vita and here we are. But to be fair, SciresM is by far the most knowledgeable dev about Switch hacking. He's the main dev to blow the whole thing open in the first place. If he says that (currently) there's no point of access for homebrew on Mariko, I'll fully trust him.
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,697
Panama
I think it's more they scolded out Nvidia for the security hole and got them to fix it while further strengthening their own firmware.

The current switches can still be hardmodded, lets be clear, but now it's not so easy anymore.

that's the idea pretty much. every platform will be hackable with hardmods but they need to do a good enough job that it's so inconventient and hard that very few bother with it and those few won't impact their game sales.
 

Adulfzen

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,606
I guess it'd be impossible to know the exact numbers but I'm wondering how many OG Switches are in circulation vs the revised Switches
At this point it'd be fair to assume there are more revised Switches owners ?
One could look at Nintendo quarterly reports and some basic math to have an answer I suppose.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
I guess it'd be impossible to know the exact numbers but I'm wondering how many OG Switches are in circulation vs the revised Switches
At this point it'd be fair to assume there are more revised Switches owners ?
One could look at Nintendo quarterly reports and some basic math to have an answer I suppose.
The first revised switches happened around September 2018, so less than 20 milliom switches before that point were OG.

Mariko Switches would come out August of last year so less than 17 million were the first revision Switches. From that point, the old models were phased out so nearly all Switches shipped are mariko, with some exceptions (2019 Mario Kart Bundle).
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,390
I imagine they wanted to patch this up because the exploit available, unless I'm mistaken about the scale of it, was just literally based on hardware. This assured nearly every system Nintendo had out there was at risk. That's a good motivator to close up all issues for later hardware revisions.

Never say never though. Every time we've seen the "impossible to hack" claim being thrown around, something eventually gets hacked. The goal of a hardware manufacturer should be to prevent those hacks from being mainstream during the course of the hardware's lifespan. Vita had small windows of being hacked while it was being officially supported, but I believe it's much easier to hack the device now more than ever, but it's also basically discontinued by Sony.

Nintendo's not been so lucky. I believe outside of the Gamecube, they've had not only easily mainstream ways to hack their systems for every platform they've released this century, but they've had emulators playing a number of their key titles day and date of the official release. We might be in the Switch's "halfway point" and there's barely a break between what the console can do, and what emulators can try to boot into.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
I imagine they wanted to patch this up because the exploit available, unless I'm mistaken about the scale of it, was just literally based on hardware. This assured nearly every system Nintendo had out there was at risk. That's a good motivator to close up all issues for later hardware revisions.

Never say never though. Every time we've seen the "impossible to hack" claim being thrown around, something eventually gets hacked. The goal of a hardware manufacturer should be to prevent those hacks from being mainstream during the course of the hardware's lifespan. Vita had small windows of being hacked while it was being officially supported, but I believe it's much easier to hack the device now more than ever, but it's also basically discontinued by Sony.

Nintendo's not been so lucky. I believe outside of the Gamecube, they've had not only easily mainstream ways to hack their systems for every platform they've released this century, but they've had emulators playing a number of their key titles day and date of the official release. We might be in the Switch's "halfway point" and there's barely a break between what the console can do, and what emulators can try to boot into.
It's not that the system is completely unhackable, but that it can only be hacked via hardware mods, and even the main Switch homebrew devs think that that probably isn't going to change for the foreseeable future. When the bar for hacking is that high, most people won't do it.
 

ApeEscaper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,720
Bangladeshi
I feel like it's worth noting that his Xbox One comparison is flawed - nobody is looking for Xbox exploits when you can literally make your box a dev unit and do homebrew with no real caveats.
Yeah theres definitely less demand to exploit Xbox One, atleast from what I see from those hacking places Nintendo and PlayStation consoles is what they're always interested in most to exploit
 

M4xim1l1ano

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,094
Santiago, Stockholm, Vienna
Just a side note/comment on the Xbox One security. Maybe MS was onto something there because what started there, developed into Microsoft Pluton, a security processor for windows pcs

www.theverge.com

Microsoft Pluton is a new processor with Xbox-like security for Windows PCs

Pluton uses the same technology found in the Xbox One

one more link from Microsoft:
www.microsoft.com

Meet the Microsoft Pluton processor – The security chip designed for the future of Windows PCs | Microsoft Security Blog

In collaboration with leading silicon partners AMD, Intel, and Qualcomm Technologies, Inc., we are announcing the Microsoft Pluton security processor. This chip-to-cloud security technology, pioneered in Xbox and Azure Sphere, will bring even more security advancements to future Windows PCs and...
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,205
They'd have to introduce new bugs, which won't happen.
Any future Switch devices will use the same bootrom that current mariko devices use and will run the same OS as all current devices.

You can do more than just play games with Android, you can use it as a fully functional Android tablet; web browsing, streaming, etc

A usb A to usb C cable and a PC also works :p
I already have an Android phone which has longer battery than the OG Switch, but it was definitely something I thought about doing for a while.

At the very least I was able to get what I payed for my launch Switch when I sold it for the newer model. Hopefully someone can take advantage of the hackable model!