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defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,489
Austin
Serious question has there ever been any definitive proof of aliens? No right? If not what's the closest thing we have that can't be hand waves away? I'm always arguing with my father who thinks we've been visited and many other actually crazy things while I believe they're definitely out there but not visiting us.
 

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
Serious question has there ever been any definitive proof of aliens? No right? If not what's the closest thing we have that can't be hand waves away? I'm always arguing with my father who thinks we've been visited and many other actually crazy things while I believe they're definitely out there but not visiting us.
IIRC the closest thing we have to proof is... I think it's the stuff they found in the clouds of Venus? I want to say they've found the remains of microbes somewhere too (Mars?) Nothing like super complex or intelligent yet, though.

Did they ever figure out what was going on with that star giving off the crazy patterns that people thought could be a Dyson Sphere?
 

Deleted member 6645

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
657
When is the last time you bothered to go and visit an ant pile. To take an interest in anything it is doing. You know their complex, but it's boring to you. Do you even bother to kill them, unless it's an absolute nuisance in your yard. You have the power and means, but why bother. Otherwise you just go by, and ignore it.
I've stopped and taken a look at them every once in a while. We have people within our species who are in myrmecology. Most wouldn't give a shit about ants, you're right...some do. It is strange to me that we often think in extremes when it comes to the possibility of other intelligent life in the universe and how they could potentially react to other intelligent life.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,331
IIRC the closest thing we have to proof is... I think it's the stuff they found in the clouds of Venus? I want to say they've found the remains of microbes somewhere too (Mars?) Nothing like super complex or intelligent yet, though.

Did they ever figure out what was going on with that star giving off the crazy patterns that people thought could be a Dyson Sphere?
Clouds of Venus was debunked like two weeks later FYI. Other scientists ran their own tests and claimed they were using flawed methodology.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,340
I've stopped and taken a look at them every once in a while. We have people within our species who are in myrmecology. Most wouldn't give a shit about ants, you're right...some do. It is strange to me that we often think in extremes when it comes to the possibility of other intelligent life in the universe and how they could potentially react to other intelligent life.

Yup, if there's a interstellar travelling species, you can be super certain that they have entire communities of scientists fascinated by lesser lifeforms, and probably a lot of politics around how to deal with them safely. And probably factions that would just want to eradicate us and colonize our system for fuel.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,082
I've stopped and taken a look at them every once in a while. We have people within our species who are in myrmecology. Most wouldn't give a shit about ants, you're right...some do. It is strange to me that we often think in extremes when it comes to the possibility of other intelligent life in the universe and how they could potentially react to other intelligent life.
That is a sentiment I have probably heard my whole life and by a lot of very smart people, and it never really made much sense.

It seems to presume there is a point in a civilization's development where that species just decides to, in essence, become myopically selfish and in love with their own farts. Devoid of empathy for anything but themselves. Or utterly paranoid in their capacity to sustain existence they turn into civilization genocide machines. And I guess maybe, but it seems like to get to that level of civilization would require a lot of empathy and an evolved sense of resource value and harmonic balance.

Like I would almost imagine it an inevitability that if our species solved scarcity, mortality, and unlocked the science of the universe in full, that a not insignificant number of people would be like, you know what, fuck it, let's go ride around and see what else is out there or try reaching out as a hobby. Catalog the galaxy to improve our understanding of our place in it.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
That is a sentiment I have probably heard my whole life and by a lot of very smart people, and it never really made much sense.

It seems to presume there is a point in a civilization's development where that species just decides to, in essence, become myopically selfish and in love with their own farts. Devoid of empathy for anything but themselves. Or utterly paranoid in their capacity to sustain existence they turn into civilization genocide machines. And I guess maybe, but it seems like to get to that level of civilization would require a lot of empathy and an evolved sense of resource value and harmonic balance.

Like I would almost imagine it an inevitability that if our species solved scarcity, mortality, and unlocked the science of the universe in full, that a not insignificant number of people would be like, you know what, fuck it, let's go ride around and see what else is out there or try reaching out as a hobby. Catalog the galaxy to improve our understanding of our place in it.

It should be noted that an alien species can and most likely will be incredibly different than humanity and not just the physical form. For all we know it could be a species of space ants that have little to no individuality or curiosity beyond what can advance their species directly. There is no guarantee that an alien species will have an intellectual curiosity about other creatures.
 

Deleted member 9305

Oct 26, 2017
4,064
Ripley: "Well, I... it looks like a warning."
 

LilZippa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,175
Iowa
dcbf935d28b946302dc84897d8f8cb09.gif
He's just an alien trying to prep us for the truth.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,082
It should be noted that an alien species can and most likely will be incredibly different than humanity and not just the physical form. For all we know it could be a species of space ants that have little to no individuality or curiosity beyond what can advance their species directly. There is no guarantee that an alien species will have an intellectual curiosity about other creatures.
I guess it would be difficult for me to imagine how such a species could become that advanced without it?

Though if your just saying alien life in general, I certainly agree.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
I guess it would be difficult for me to imagine how such a species could become that advanced without it?

Though if your just saying alien life in general, I certainly agree.
Impossible to speculate as we only have one example, one.
It's true that a planet could well host a sentient and even intelligent specifices but what if they are not curious and just comfortable at a very low level of development. would they be considered lesser ? I don't think so.
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,321
Australia
I want to say they've found the remains of microbes somewhere too (Mars?) Nothing like super complex or intelligent yet, though.

Did they ever figure out what was going on with that star giving off the crazy patterns that people thought could be a Dyson Sphere?
Those things that were thought to be microbe fossils where wrong.
And the weird star has some type of dust cloud or something orbiting it, it's not a Dyson sphere.

So far the universe seems to be entirely natural and untouched by anyone.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
breakthroughinitiatives.org

Breakthrough Initiatives


If Breakthrough Starshot works, 20 years.






Is it possible to build whole bunch of breakthrough starshots on Earth and then build another on the alpha centari planet and have both beams point at each other for even faster interstellar near lightspeed travel for larger mass travel? Feels like the end game tech would be the Stargate from stargate sg1.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
I guess it would be difficult for me to imagine how such a species could become that advanced without it?

Though if your just saying alien life in general, I certainly agree.

There is no reason a species has to be curious about life forms on other planets. That's a trait inherent to humanity and could be near or totally absent from a race that evolved in a totally different setting. Same for things we consider a given like a sex drive. That might be a total non factor for a species that reproduces asexually.
 

Nigel Tufnel

Member
Mar 5, 2019
3,153
Those things that were thought to be microbe fossils where wrong.
And the weird star has some type of dust cloud or something orbiting it, it's not a Dyson sphere.

So far the observable universe seems to be entirely natural and untouched by anyone.
I've made an adjustment, which is a major adjustment because what we can observe is an incomprehensibly tiny fraction of what is.
 

javiBear

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
886
In a week or so, the message will be decoded and all it'll say is 'They're coming' as 2020 draws to an end.
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,321
Australia
I've made an adjustment, which is a major adjustment because what we can observe is an incomprehensibly tiny fraction of what is.
What we can see in detail is quite small but we can still see a decent amount of the universe on large scales.

And when I said natural I mean we haven't seen any large scale megastructures of stellar engineering. Some of these while large and complex projects aren't particularly technologically advanced. Like a Dyson sphere, we could start building one within a century or a few. You just need a lot of thin solar collectors around the star. We haven't seen anything like this. An example of this would be expanding spheres in galaxies where the star light fgoes dim du to a civ expanding out building Dyson spheres.
 

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
Clouds of Venus was debunked like two weeks later FYI. Other scientists ran their own tests and claimed they were using flawed methodology.
Those things that were thought to be microbe fossils where wrong.
And the weird star has some type of dust cloud or something orbiting it, it's not a Dyson sphere.

So far the universe seems to be entirely natural and untouched by anyone.
Oh damn! Thanks for the update on the microbes, that's a bummer. Also cool that they finally figured out the star thing. How'd they land on dust clouds? I thought they initially ruled those out?
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,082
There is no reason a species has to be curious about life forms on other planets. That's a trait inherent to humanity and could be near or totally absent from a race that evolved in a totally different setting. Same for things we consider a given like a sex drive. That might be a total non factor for a species that reproduces asexually.
Actually there is a very good reason why we would be correct in assuming that and I already gave it to you.

If you are a species that does not evolve to understand how to balance resource consumption, manage scarcity, and have intellectual curiosity I am not sure how you become an advanced species capable of traversing the stars and unlocking the secrets of the universe, do you?

This also circles back to the point I made about this notion that somehow a species should be expected to operate monolithically. Almost no species I am aware of that is considered to have intelligence(humans, elephants, octopus, dolphins) tend to have inter-species personality quirks, but this sort of analysis seems to just assume, without justification, that we should presume an advanced alien species all essentially has the same motives and personality quirks.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Actually there is a very good reason why we would be correct in assuming that and I already gave it to you.

If you are a species that does not evolve to understand how to balance resource consumption, manage scarcity, and have intellectual curiosity I am not sure how you become an advanced species capable of traversing the stars and unlocking the secrets of the universe, do you?

I never said they lacked intellectual curiosity but that it's not a given it would turn out like humanity's i.e. being at all concerned about life on other planets.
 

offtopic

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
2,694
I think I just read this book. We are ok for now as their first wave of attacks would be an assault on humanity's belief in science and expertise in order to create division and halt our scientific and cultural advancement. This, of course, will leave us very weak for when the fleet arrives in a couple centuries.

Oh shit...
 

CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
Clouds of Venus was debunked like two weeks later FYI. Other scientists ran their own tests and claimed they were using flawed methodology.

The original team that made the phosphine Venus discovery re-analyzed the data and responded to those criticisms about a month ago in November.


In September, an international team announced that based on data obtained by the Atacama Millimeter-submillimeter Array (ALMA) in Chile and the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope (JCMT) in Hawaii, they had discovered phosphine gas (PH3) in the atmosphere of Venus. The news was met with its fair share of skepticism and controversy since phosphine is considered a possible indication of life (aka. a biosignature).
Shortly thereafter, a series of papers were published that questioned the observations and conclusions, with one team going as far as to say there was "no phosphine" in Venus' atmosphere at all. Luckily, after re-analyzing the ALMA data, the team responsible for the original discovery concluded that there is indeed phosphine in the cloud tops of Venus – just not as much as they initially thought.
...
This is the team's first public response to the criticisms that were made in the wake of their original findings. Their revised findings were also presented at a meeting of the Venus Exploration Analysis Group(VEXAG), a NASA community forum, that took place on Nov. 17th. While they have since indicated that their results are "tentative," they remain confident about the presence of phophene in Venus' atmosphere.
According to Greaves and her colleagues, the ALMA data demonstrated a spectral signature that cannot be explained by SO2anything other than the compound phosphene. This, they claim, is further bolstered by the JCMT spectra that indicated the chemical fingerprints of phosphine. Based on the new ALMA data, the team estimates that phosphine levels average at about 1 ppb – about one-seventh of their earlier estimate.
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,321
Australia
Oh damn! Thanks for the update on the microbes, that's a bummer. Also cool that they finally figured out the star thing. How'd they land on dust clouds? I thought they initially ruled those out?
Actually I'm not sure if it was dust clouds or some other type of debris, I might have a look later. But it being artificial in origin was pretty much ruled out.

And if an alien civilisation wanted to attack us we would be totally so fucked we'd probably be all dead before we even knew what hit us. Something like a relativistic weapon:
(i.e., light-speed lag). Relativistic rockets, if their owners turn out to be less than benevolent, are both totally unstoppable and totally destructive. A starship weighing in at 1,500 tons (approximately the weight of a fully fueled space shuttle sitting on the launchpad) impacting an earthlike planet at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed will release 1.5 million megatons of energy -- an explosive force equivalent to 150 times today's global nuclear arsenal...
In the forests below, lakes caught the first rays of the rising Sun and threw them back into space. Abandoning the two-dimensional sprawl of twentieth-century cities, Sri Lanka Tower, and others like it, had been erected in the world's rain forests and farmlands, leaving the countryside virtually uninhabited. Even in Africa, where more than a hundred city arcologies had risen, nature was beginning to renew itself. It was a good day to be alive, she told herself, taking in the peace of the garden. Then, looking east, she saw it coming -- at least her eyes began to register it -- but her optic nerves did not last long enough to transmit what the eyes had seen.

It was quite small for what it could do -- small enough to fit into an average-sized living room -- but it was moving at 92 percent of light speed when it touched Earth's atmosphere. A spear point of light appeared, so intense that the air below snapped away from it, creating a low-density tunnel through which the object descended. The walls of the tunnel were a plasma boundary layer, six and a half kilometers wide and more than 160 deep -- the flaming spear that Virginia's eyes began to register -- with every square foot of its surface radiating a trillion watts, and still its destructive potential was but fractionally spent.

Thirty-three kilometers above the Indian Ocean, the point began to encounter too much air. It tunneled down only eight kilometers more, then stalled and detonated, less than two-thousandths of a second after crossing the orbits of Earth's nearest artificial satellites.

Virginia was more than three hundred kilometers away when the light burst toward her. Every nerve ending in her body began to record a strange, prickling sensation -- the sheer pressure of photons trying to push her backward. No shadows were cast anywhere in the tower, so bright was the glare. It pierced walls, ceramic beams, notepads, and people -- four hundred thousand people. The maglev terminal connecting Sri Lanka Tower to London and Sydney, the waste treatment centers that sustained the lakes and farms, all the shops, theaters, and apartments liquefied instantly. The structure began to slip and crash like a giant waterfall, but gravity could not yank it down fast enough. The Tower became vapor before it could fall half a meter. At the vanished city's feet, the trees of the forest were no longer able to cast shadows; they had themselves become long shadows of carbonized dust on the ground.

In Kandy and Columbo, where sidewalks steamed, the relativistic onslaught was unfinished. The electromagnetic pulse alone killed every living thing as far away as Bombay and the Maldives. All of India south of the Godavari River became an instant microwave oven. Nearer the epicenter, Demon Rock glowed with a fierce red heat, then fractured down its center, as if to herald the second coming of the tyrant it memorialized. The air blast followed, surging out of the Indian Ocean -- faster than sound -- flattening whatever still stood. As it slashed north through Jaffna and Madurai, the wave front was met and overpowered by shocks rushing out from strikes in central and southern India.

Across the face of the planet, without warning, thousands of flaming swords pierced the sky...
 
OP
OP
Forerunner

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,646
www.seti.org

A Signal from Proxima Centauri?

//--> English Español

But does this mean that SETI researchers have finally stumbled upon their holy grail, a radio emission that could only come from a deliberately constructed transmitter on another world? It's possible, of course. But the Breakthrough Listen folk are careful not to indulge in any chest beating until the signal is subjected to additional observations.

So, what are the possible implications of this finding? Let us count the ways:

Indeed, it just might be a telemetry signal from an orbiting satellite. The orbital motion of these satellites cause their transmissions to rise and fall in frequency, after all. And while you might think that the chances of accidentally tuning in a satellite are not great, you should think again. There are more than 2,700 functioning satellites buzzing our planet, providing information on the weather, imagery for Google Earth, GPS signals for navigation, and high-resolution photos for the military, just to name a few. This flood of information from hardware a few hundred miles above our heads is obviously important for a high-tech lifestyle, but it jams a lot of the radio spectrum. SETI scientists are trying to find a needle in a pile of pins.

But if it's not a satellite signal, what else might it be? It's possible that the signal is actually coming from something behind Proxima Centauri that just happens to line up with it. There's an example of this coming your way next week, when Jupiter will seem to be intruding upon Saturn's personal space as the two planets get close in the evening sky. On December 21, their separation will be only 6 arcmin, or about the width of a dime held at 20 feet. But of course Jupiter and Saturn won't actually be close. You'd find 500 million miles of uninteresting space behind Jupiter before you encountered the ring thing. They just appear to line up.

Yet another participant in this lineup is the possibility that what's been found are merely natural radio emissions from a world having a strong magnetic field. In our own solar system, Jupiter's noisy radio bursts have been studied for many decades. Maybe there's such a beefy, magnetically laced planet orbiting Proxima Centauri?

That may seem plausible, but if you were to transport Jupiter to the distance of Proxima, its cacophonous outbursts would be roughly a thousand times weaker than the faintest signal our radio telescopes can detect. In other words, this explanation for the detection depends on there being an extraordinarily noisy world orbiting Proxima Centauri. Not impossible, but a bit unlikely.

Of course, there's always the possibility that the signal is really, really local. A microwave oven in the break room of the Parkes radio telescope caused considerable consternation five years ago when it produced signals that, at first, suggested that something remarkable was happening in the distant cosmos. In fact, it was just someone heating up lunch.

So, given even this short laundry list, we see that there are several possible explanations for the signal that are, regrettably, rather prosaic. Yes, as long as we still don't know, we should continue to consider the alien hypothesis viable. After all, any SETI detection is going to be dicey when we first make it … there will be plenty of calls for restraint intended to pacify the all-too-eager. But it's reasonable to expect that someday one of these suspicious signals will, indeed, be the sought-after proof of intelligence on another world.

Caution is often a good idea, but one must be careful not to toss the baby with the bathwater. After all, this baby could change our concept of the cosmos.