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CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
https://www.theguardian.com/science...lunteers-lab-controlled-human-challenge-trial

The team behind the Oxford Covid-19 vaccine hope to begin tests on volunteers who will be intentionally exposed to the virus in a "challenge trial", a move seen as controversial since there is no proven cure for the illness.
Although challenge trials, in which healthy volunteers are given a pathogen, are routine in vaccine development, taking the approach for Covid-19, where there is no failsafe treatment if a volunteer becomes severely ill, has been questioned.




https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/sci...ed-with-the-coronavirus-to-test-vaccines.html

Over 100 prominent scientists, including 15 Nobel laureates, are calling for healthy volunteers to be exposed to the coronavirus to see whether vaccines against Covid-19 actually work.
The scientists signed an open letter to Dr. Francis Collins, the head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the U.S., on Wednesday calling for human "challenge trials" that they say could "greatly accelerate" the development of a Covid-19 vaccine.
Challenge trials see healthy volunteers deliberately exposed to a virus, after being given a vaccine, to test whether the vaccine works to prevent infection.
...
Scientists that signed the letter, including the director of the University of Oxford's Covid-19 vaccine program, said "human challenge trials can provide information much faster than conventional efficacy trials, which take months longer."
"In such trials, volunteers still receive the vaccine candidate or a control. Instead of resuming life as usual and waiting to 'catch' a virus, volunteers are deliberately exposed to the pathogen under controlled conditions. Beyond being faster than conventional trials, a challenge test is likelier to conclude with interpretable results, e.g. should the presence of virus around the study site begin to fade over time," they added.
...
Guidance from the World Health Organization (WHO) says that human challenge trials are ethical when they meet certain criteria. Protections that should clearly be in place, experts said, including that trial participants are relatively young and in good health and provided with the highest quality medical care with frequent monitoring.
The WHO notes that it is essential challenge trials are "conducted within an ethical framework in which truly informed consent is given" and that they should be undertaken with "abundant forethought, caution, and oversight." Consideration must be given to both potential individual risks and benefits, WHO says, as well as to potential societal benefits and risks, such as the release into the environment of a pathogen that might not otherwise be present.




How do you feel about the potent use of human "challenge trials" to speed up the vaccine trials?
 

nny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,261
I'd say refusal to wear a mask counts as signing in to this study. Round 'em up.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,205
I guess this is a little controversial because the control group will just be exposed and a percentage of them could potentially die. Do we need a control group with this since we have so many folks already effected?

So..... Black folks, brown folks?

Honestly if it's like the trials I have seen it's a lot of college students. It generally requires you to have a lot of free time and easy transportation. Also they don't really pay that well.
 

Swiggins

was promised a tag
Member
Apr 10, 2018
11,446

Nivash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,463
Maybe low income and / or people in developing countries. That's how they viewed the world.

youtu.be

French doctors discuss testing Covid-19 vaccine in Africa

“Should we do this study in Africa, where there are no masks, no treatments, no reanimation” Two French doctors suggest on live TV to carry on experiments fo...

That's not how this is typically done, which is why everyone reacted pretty strongly to that particular clip. It's like Wereroku says, it's likely going to be healthy college students with a minimal risk of getting a severe infection. Like always.

I'm somewhat confused by the article to be honest. Well no, of course there's no cure, it's a virus. There's no cure for any virus, just various treatments.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
I'd do it for the right amount of money.

EDIT: the above poster is a better human than me lol
 
Apr 11, 2020
252
Paid, or unpaid 'volunteers'? Here in Australia, clinical trials nearly always use volunteer in their wording for applicants, however, you are compensated. I actually believe (this isn't substantiated, however) that they use the word volunteer because the compensation avoids being taxed.
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
some-of-you-may-die-but-that-is-a-sacrifice-i-am-willing-to-make.jpg
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
100 scientists and 15 Nobel laureates should lead by example. Will they even pay people enough to cover bills?
 

Tiger Priest

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,120
New York, NY
Given the immense implications for human society at the moment and the losses we stand to face, if people are willing to volunteer to do this, then godspeed. If it saves us three months of this hell and saves hundreds of thousands of lives, those people would be absolute heroes.
 

Deleted member 6215

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,087
There is no cure for many viruses but humans resolve. Most people without underlying health conditions will get it and move on.
Check back with us in 6-12 months when all the studies about long term effects of COVID-19 start rolling in. We've already started to see how this virus fucks you up from "nose to toes" and we've barely scratched the surface of our understanding.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
23,310

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,205
Paid, or unpaid 'volunteers'? Here in Australia, clinical trials nearly always use volunteer in their wording for applicants, however, you are compensated. I actually believe (this isn't substantiated, however) that they use the word volunteer because the compensation avoids being taxed.
In the US it's generally just advertised as looking for study participants. Some are paid participants while others are compensated through other means like free health check-ups or I have seen some dental studies that will do other treatments you might need as well. It is generally tax free but usually it's because it's not a ton of money.
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
100 scientists and 15 Nobel laureates should lead by example. Will they even pay people enough to cover bills?
It's actually pretty standard research practice that all medical costs related to the research are covered, so fuck off with this bullshit.

Scientists were talking about challenge trials for a future coronavirus vaccine since the beginning of the epidemic. This is just typical piss poor science journalism trying to spread fear about a fairly common and, likely, necessary practice.
 

brochiller

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,191
I mean this is the only way to get real data on the efficacy of the vaccine, unfortunately. Without real data you cannot have a proven treatment, so it is necessary to get a vaccine ASAP.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,316
America
I hope they're paid well ($100k each sounds fair) and I hope that the vaccine works perfectly and none of them catches it (or at least fewer than 30%), much less dies from it.

Still, there is a small risk and the volunteers would be doing humanity a solid favor.
 

smurfx

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,578
how much are they gonna charge for the vaccines though? people are putting their lives at risk for the common good and i hope they don't then go and charge and arm and a leg for the vaccine. you already have one company charging like 3k for the vaccine so i don't trust these companies.