School board resigns after accidental public livestream

[Jest]

These conversations are so frustrating because people just refuse to admit any merit to the other side of the debate. You either get the "lazy teacher" argument from one side or the "free childcare" argument from the other.

The lazy teachers stuff is obviously bullshit. The teachers in my district are, I suspect, doing more work than usual to come up with remote learning plans and keep kids engaged. I've honestly been super impressed by their dedication and abilities. My sister is a teacher in a place that is back full time, and I also see the stress she's gone through trying to navigate teaching in person in the middle of all of this.

On the flip side, the childcare thing has really taken hold, and it's unfortunate, because it absolutely ignores the fact that there are many detrimental effects of the current situation. There have been threads on this forum over the past few months discussing how education experts believe kids will have long lasting negative effects from this, suggesting that we keep kids in school through the summer, and even suggesting that suicides among children are up because of it.

Let me be really clear, I don't think we should re-open schools in the vast majority of cases, but I think we have to admit that the decision is more complex and the effects more detrimental than just losing "free childcare."

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Good post that more people should pay attention to.

 

[Kill3r7]

They are the ones who got caught. I imagine this line of thinking runs rampant in many districts.

 

[Zoe]

Not to defend them in anyway but the last part about wanting a message system for recording questions and capping it at 3 minutes to cut people off is really nothing.

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Yeah, I'm not sure of the law in California, but in Texas they have to allow everyone who signed up an opportunity to speak. If you don't have a hard cap, the board meeting would never end. Considering that school board meetings almost always begin after the workday, that means they usually stretch into the AM hours.

 

[LProtagonist]

I'd like to echo that school board =/= teachers. They don't represent us at all.

As a teacher most of my "free childcare" comments are geared towards the politicians who don't ever actually support schools or education, but when they need to open them back up so that parents can go back to work (especially those who were pushing this conversation very hard during the summer) it's suddenly "education for our children is so important, blah blah blah". Complete hypocrites.

I feel and understand for parents and I know the situation is much more complex.

 

[Landy828]

I've literally had a parent complain that they want their free childcare back.

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They're definitely right on that one as far as there being people like that. No excuses for the other stuff though.

Parents have yelled at my wife for sending sick kids home. Even parents that are "stay at home" parents.

I'd like to echo that school board =/= teachers. They don't represent us at all.

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This is also very true, the school board (especially inner city GT/Lower Class split) isn't often on the same page as teachers.

 

[scitek]

As someone who works in video production, anytime you're near a microphone always assume it's hot.

 

[gozu]

By the way, we make disparaging comments about a good portion of our clients. I wouldn't want them to hear us. Then, again, I wish some would and go away forever. I think this is pretty standard in many industries. I'm not surprised to find out that teachers are the same.

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This is true of all workplaces I've worked at.

I generally try not to do it or to use euphemisms because it's safer to be nice than not but some people need to vent.

 

[killerrin]

I'll give them a pass on the babysitter comment. Thats unfortunately how a lot of parents treat Teachers and is an extremely stupid viewpoint. As for the rest of the comments? Absolutely abhorent. Glad they resigned.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I've literally had a parent complain that they want their free childcare back.

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I don't see a problem with that statement

I will add that teachers should be first in line for vaccines (behind the obvious health care workers)

 

[Book One]

I don't see a problem with that statement

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It's a belittling, reductive, disrespectful way to view what teachers are there to do.

 

[TSM]

I don't see a problem with that statement

I will add that teachers should be first in line for vaccines (behind the obvious health care workers)

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The child care aspect is probably the biggest service schools and teachers provide after education. In a world where you can be arrested for leaving your under 12 year old child alone for any length of time schools bridge the gap that allows many parents to even maintain a job.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[Captain Tuttle]

It's a belittling, reductive, disrespectful way to view what teachers are there to do.

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I agree its a bit reductive but when the whole economy is built around both parents working this is what you get.

Whatever you call it it's not free, I pay more than a grand a month in school taxes

 

[spookyduzt]

It's a belittling, reductive, disrespectful way to view what teachers are there to do.

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Thank you.

 

[LegendofJoe]

We definitely need better people to step up and run for school board positions. Once my kids get older and I have more free time I for sure plan on making my mark in the community. We can't just shake our heads in dismay while assholes make decisions that negatively impact our communities.

 

[Tendo]

I agree its a bit reductive but when the whole economy is built around both parents working this is what you get.

Whatever you call it it's not free, I pay more than a grand a month in school taxes

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I'm not your daycare.

 

[Pandaman]

Let whosoever has never complained about a client cast the first stone.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[Tendo]

What do you have against watching kids and keeping them safe as part of your responsibilities?

Like is this just a thread for teachers to shit on childcare providers?

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Nothing. But my job is to teach kids. Not provide a resource for parents to go to work. I understand a school being open allows that to occur, but that isn't why I do what I do and it sure isn't why I'm desperate for in person instruction.

 

[Book One]

What do you have against watching kids and keeping them safe as part of your responsibilities?

Like is this just a thread for teachers to shit on childcare providers?

Babysittimg is a base level responsibility of a teacher. You sure as shit are my daycare AND MORE if I'm sending my 5 and 6 year old to you for 8 hours.

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saying you are not a thing is not holding something 'against' people who do that thing. that is disingenuous and intellectually dishoneat.

but you probably know that.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[Book One]

We definitely need better people to step up and run for school board positions. Once my kids get older and I have more free time I for sure plan on making my mark in the community. We can't just shake our heads in dismay while assholes make decisions that negatively impact our communities.

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One example of why local elections are more important than some people believe.

around here people love to try and vote in some real right wing shitheads in those school board positions

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[Tendo]

Saying "I'm not your daycare" makes it sound like you have something against doing that job. So which part of babysitting do you have a problem with? The keeping them safe part? The watching them part? You have to do that AND MORE as a teacher. If the teachers can't handle that base responsibility (like literally the absolute minimum) they shouldn't be teaching.

How are those not base responsibilities of a teacher? I get that isn't your motivation, but that doesn't change that it is 100% part of your responsibilities as a teacher to do what most people associate with babysitting or daycare, which is watching and keeping kids safe.

The younger the kid the more those lines are blurred, certainly.

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You here to have a conversation or be pissed off?

Do you think I let my kids play with fire and have staple fights? I don't even get where your agression is coming from? I sheltered kids in a closet once for an hour while police pursued an active shooter on campus. Like, I'm not sure what kind of answer you are looking for here.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[hydrophilic attack]

yikes

 

[Obi Wan Jabroni]

If you've been failed by society, and the education system, and you're working a shitty underappreciated job and living paycheck to paycheck, we shouldn't chastise people for thinking that it's not much more than babysitting, especially if that's the level of individual attention they received in their education.

In good schools that's almost never the reality. But it doesn't mean it's not the reality anywhere.

If you don't have family help and are working low wage job paycheck to paycheck, the babysitting is the more important function, as it allows them to work which allows them to feed their kids. Or in many MANY cases they get their meals directly from the school, because the parents are not able to provide consistently.

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Bullshit.

Ignorance is ignorance regardless of justification. Anybody reducing what I do to daycare can fuck right off given the amount of effort I've put into this job over the last sixteen years. Frankly, your talk of "good schools" underscores your own ignorance about what is actually going on in public education because the issue is less about good versus bad schools and more about the ridiculous ways schools are funded, the continued insistence on standardized testing, which is antithetical to any real learning, the digital divide, the crushing effects of poverty on a child's learning, and two decades of both political parties trying to entirely obliterate public education through charter school advocacy. Public education is a mess and the teachers are the ones who have consistently held it together.

Is daycare part of my job? Absolutely. I'm also a teacher, mediator, mentor, confidant, social worker, counselor, lesson planner, organizer, and often a surrogate parent. I teach middle school in a low-income district with classes as large as forty kids and I still get them engaged and learning all the while making connections, many of which last well beyond those ten months we are together.

So yeah, there's no excuse for calling what I and most teachers do daycare/babysitting, though that level of disrespect is pretty much par for the course in regards to educators here in the U.S.

And to be clear I don't think you are being disrespectful but you are giving others justification for their ignorance and not only is that not okay, it's only going to make things worse on a broader scale because education is reaching a point of implosion and if a ton of teachers finally break over this incredibly stressful year, it could take several years for the educational system to recover. As it is there is a teacher shortage in most states and filling those positions won't be easy if that were to happen.

Teachers need support, not more bullshit about how easy our jobs are. (Not that daycare is all that easy either)

And sincerely, I'm sorry if I come off as curt but I'm really tired of the shit associated with this job. The way educators are treated in this country is just bizarre.

 

[Commedieu]

I'm a child care provider? Why would you say "I'm not your daycare" when you obstensibly are, or if you have nothing against it? You have the same responsibilities of a childcare provider, and more.

Like what part of daycare do you take issue with?

If my kids first grade teacher or kindergarten teacher said that to me I'd be switching schools.

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this all stemmed from a quote of "we want our free childcare back" then another poster sorta agreed with that...
the whole job of teaching was reduced to being free childcare. Scroll up a bit.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

Bullshit.

Ignorance is ignorance regardless of justification. Anybody reducing what I do to daycare can fuck right off given the amount of effort I've put into this job over the last sixteen years. Frankly, your talk of "good schools" underscores your own ignorance about what is actually going on in public education because the issue is less about good versus bad schools and more about the ridiculous ways schools are funded, the continued insistence on standardized testing, which is antithetical to any real learning, the digital divide, the crushing effects of poverty on a child's learning, and two decades of both political parties trying to entirely obliterate public education through charter school advocacy. Public education is a mess and the teachers are the ones who have consistently held it together.

Is daycare part of my job? Absolutely. I'm also a teacher, mediator, mentor, confidant, social worker, counselor, lesson planner, organizer, and often a surrogate parent. I teach middle school in a low-income district with classes as large as forty kids and I still get them engaged and learning all the while making connections, many of which last well beyond those ten months we are together.

So yeah, there's no excuse for calling what I and most teachers do daycare/babysitting, though that level of disrespect is pretty much par for the course in regards to educators here in the U.S.

And to be clear I don't think you are being disrespectful but you are giving others justification for their ignorance and not only is that not okay, it's only going to make things worse on a broader scale because education is reaching a point of implosion and if a ton of teachers finally break over this incredibly stressful year, it could take several years for the educational system to recover. As it is there is a teacher shortage in most states and filling those positions won't be easy if that were to happen.

Teachers need support, not more bullshit about how easy our jobs are. (Not that daycare is all that easy either)

And sincerely, I'm sorry if I come off as curt but I'm really tired of the shit associated with this job. The way educators are treated in this country is just bizarre.

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%100 agreed, thank you.

I mean, I'm not going to chastise ignorant people, but I certainly wouldn't blame ya for it.

Although I'd push back on childcare being easy. Amazed people are saying that during the pandemic! For younger kids, the difficulties facing a teacher and a summer counselor trying to lead an activity are about the same. Getting and keeping them focused is 90% of the battle!

 

[Znazzy]

Bullshit.

Ignorance is ignorance regardless of justification. Anybody reducing what I do to daycare can fuck right off given the amount of effort I've put into this job over the last sixteen years. Frankly, your talk of "good schools" underscores your own ignorance about what is actually going on in public education because the issue is less about good versus bad schools and more about the ridiculous ways schools are funded, the continued insistence on standardized testing, which is antithetical to any real learning, the digital divide, the crushing effects of poverty on a child's learning, and two decades of both political parties trying to entirely obliterate public education through charter school advocacy. Public education is a mess and the teachers are the ones who have consistently held it together.

Is daycare part of my job? Absolutely. I'm also a teacher, mediator, mentor, confidant, social worker, counselor, lesson planner, organizer, and often a surrogate parent. I teach middle school in a low-income district with classes as large as forty kids and I still get them engaged and learning all the while making connections, many of which last well beyond those ten months we are together.

So yeah, there's no excuse for calling what I and most teachers do daycare/babysitting, though that level of disrespect is pretty much par for the course in regards to educators here in the U.S.

And to be clear I don't think you are being disrespectful but you are giving others justification for their ignorance and not only is that not okay, it's only going to make things worse on a broader scale because education is reaching a point of implosion and if a ton of teachers finally break over this incredibly stressful year, it could take several years for the educational system to recover. As it is there is a teacher shortage in most states and filling those positions won't be easy if that were to happen.

Teachers need support, not more bullshit about how easy our jobs are. (Not that daycare is all that easy either)

And sincerely, I'm sorry if I come off as curt but I'm really tired of the shit associated with this job. The way educators are treated in this country is just bizarre.

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Thank you so much for this post! If anything, this thread has show me just how little people know of what we as educators handle/deal with on a day-to-day basis. ALL of my colleagues, including myself, can't wait to get back to normal and have students back in the building every single day. Hell, my job would be so much easier with all students in every single day. However, I want to know I'm safe and students are safe first.

A post in here equated teachers being "low intelligence" and that's why they're underpaid, unless I was misunderstanding that. Just further proves my point that the general public has no idea what we do on the daily. The fact that most teachers require a masters degree to be in the classroom, the fact that we have to have so many hours of continuing education that we need to complete outside of our hours (and a lot of the time with our own money) to renew our licenses.

 

[Froyo Love]

What do you have against watching kids and keeping them safe as part of your responsibilities?

Like is this just a thread for teachers to shit on childcare providers?

Babysittimg is a base level responsibility of a teacher. You sure as shit are my daycare AND MORE if I'm sending my 5 and 6 year old to you for 8 hours.

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Teaching, in the sense of actual pedagogy, is a difficult and sophisticated professional field. Babysitting is "unskilled" labor, which like all supposedly unskilled labor is not necessarily easy, but doesn't require years of professional training.

Teachers are constantly being evaluated and asked to improve themselves by the metrics of pedagogy. It is almost uniformly demanded of them to agonize over their success at imparting information, i.e. a class that's failing is a teacher that's failing and will face reprimand for it. There's a huge amount of emotional burden that goes with this - teachers are constantly told they're responsible for the futures of the people they teach, and are constantly exhorted to do additional unpaid labor (and personally pay for classroom resources, without compensation) because "it's for the kids."

So, imagine that you've put in the time, training, and professional development to become a certified teacher. You've made sacrifices and put in huge amounts of effort, both in time and emotional energy spent, because you believe that teaching skills and information is important.

Then someone comes along and says "Nah, you're a babysitter. That's at least the second most important thing you do. We need you because parents need someone to look after their kids." That's an incredibly disrespectful Fuck You that devalues all their skill and effort. It's the same kind of slap in the face that IT workers get when clients assume they're morons who just plug in cables. There's a lot of people who will walk off a job rather than have their professional value be insulted like that.

 

[Book One]

You here to have a conversation or be pissed off?

Do you think I let my kids play with fire and have staple fights? I don't even get where your agression is coming from? I sheltered kids in a closet once for an hour while police pursued an active shooter on campus. Like, I'm not sure what kind of answer you are looking for here.

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im fairly certain what the poster is here to do and it's not worth engaging in. That last response to Obi Wan Jabroni kind of seals it IMO

 

[Fletcher]

I feel so bad for teachers. I hope this year opens peoples eyes to how hard and important their jobs really are. They should all be paid so much more and each classroom should have a teacher and an assistant to help. So sad.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[HotHamBoy]

I agree with the babysitter comment...

teachers are teachers, they're not babysitters. But a lot of parents do see them that way...

the rest of it is shitty but I also do know that everyone everywhere is talking shit about clients/customers behind their backs.

 

[TSM]

This thread took a weird turn. Schools are both an important step for our children's future through learning, and also the primary source of post preschool child care for the vast majority of this country. Without that child care a lot of lower income families would have trouble making ends meet.

 

[DinoBlaster]

Am I crazy or was none of this that bad? The "baby sitter" issue struck a chord but it's clearly something that is discussed a lot. Three minute cap for a voicemail isn't bad at all. The weed joke, sure, but it seemed lighthearted and was pretty tame as far as venting sessions go.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[platocplx]

"They want to pick on us because they want their babysitters back," one member said about parents.

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ah well yeah this is true in ways...

Another implied that parents wanted their children out of the house so they could take drugs during the day.

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oh no no no.

they def should resign based off of that. I def get parents frustration and I think schools should be able to open back safely and I hope the govt can help to do so but also I think this also shows how important schools are and teachers also should be offered hazard pay during the pandemic as well with schools back opened up.

 

[Midramble]

Understaffed and underpaid education system in the US has created a war between parents and teachers that is ridiculous. Both my parents were teachers. Salaries in the south were garbage so we moved to Cali but nationally it keeps getting crunched to where teachers have to handle more and more students every year and yet are required to still maintain unviable passing rates. It gets to the point that educators either work 70+ hour work weeks or stop caring all together and simply give passing grades for nothing leaving students to basically self teach. All the while teachers get an angry parent nearly every day berating them for failing their kid. The sheer amount of threats and mockery my parents got over their careers is insane. It broke them. Sure there are victories and validating moments where they elevate some kids who were struggling or turn around a troubled kid, and they held onto those moments for sanity but the vast majority of the work is being berated without thanks or reasonable pay.

As for opening schools during an ongoing pandemic I don't understand doing it before a vaccine is given to staff. Don't understand threatening lives for something that can be done with partial effectiveness remotely.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

As for opening schools during an ongoing pandemic I don't understand doing it before a vaccine is given to staff. Don't understand threatening lives for something that can be done with partial effectiveness remotely.

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I think you're unintentionally underplaying the negative impact of the remote learning setup for children (developmentally, emotionally, even physically as the rise in suicides indicates), while not seeing / acknowledging that many US schools, especially elementary schools, have operated in person this past semester safely with enforced protocols.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

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[loco]

I have a friend from highschool on facebook that is a public school teacher with a wealthy husband and she's been very transparent about traveling the world since the school year started and still teaching her virtual classes from campgrounds, a resort in hawaii, lake havasu boating and NYC for the entire month of December. She's been promoting this vacation lifestyle on social media while being a teacher and everyone is like "you go girl!". Oh yeah and her own kids from previous marriage are back in a physical class in private school.

 

[Ryuelli]

simply give passing grades for nothing leaving students to basically self teach.

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A lot of times that's what admin tells them to do. Maybe not directly, but they make it very clear very quickly on if they're actually willing to uphold consequences for kids not doing their work. Retention is becoming more and more taboo, and when there's no real consequence for kids failing, I'm not surprised that it creates a sense of apathy real quick. Especially when, like you said, failing them and actually giving them the grade they earned potentially results in a ton of meetings, tons of documentation, angry parents, and admin who make you feel like you did something wrong.

I think very few people enter teaching not wanting to make a difference, but the system and overall lack of professional respect breaks them real quick.

 

[Replicant]

Let's be honest here, while the rest of the meeting is offensive the lede about babysitting kids is true. There was another thread about rushing kids back to school and one of the most common comments in that thread is the reason was to 'babysit kids'. I don't think even parents deny that.

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School is free day care for many parents. It's just a reality.

 

[Tendo]

im fairly certain what the poster is here to do and it's not worth engaging in. That last response to Obi Wan Jabroni kind of seals it IMO

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Yup. I'm out haha.

A lot of times that's what admin tells them to do. Maybe not directly, but they make it very clear very quickly on if they're actually willing to uphold consequences for kids not doing their work. Retention is becoming more and more taboo, and when there's no real consequence for kids failing, I'm not surprised that it creates a sense of apathy real quick. Especially when, like you said, failing them and actually giving them the grade they earned potentially results in a ton of meetings, tons of documentation, angry parents, and admin who make you feel like you did something wrong.

I think very few people enter teaching not wanting to make a difference, but the system and overall lack of professional respect breaks them real quick.

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You got it. First time in 12 years I regretted becoming a teacher was this year. Kids are fantastic, as they always are. But all the stuff from admin, public treatment etc. I'm kind of done. I'm only still here because my kids are awesome. I'm incredibly depressed all the time.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I've literally had a parent complain that they want their free childcare back.

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Education is care.
Free education is great.

 

[MrCheezball]

If teachers don't want to be in a classroom since it's "babysitting", I can practically see the arguments being made to consolidate teaching efforts;having only the most effective teachers teach hundreds if not thousands at a time, and letting go of huge portions of teachers.

 

[Lakeside]

I agree that some parents want their childcare back but holy hell some of the Zoom teachers have been assholes to my kids (different state). Fuck them.

Teachers that don't want to follow the school conventions regarding where assignments and scores are posted, then want to screw the students over for "late" work. Or are flexible as hell for in-class kids but if a child is 5 minutes late for a Zoom call they are locked out so as not to cause "disruption". Umm, very frequently the Zoom sessions themselves are the issue. It goes on and on.

Zero tolerance in an era of education being totally off script is bullshit basically.

 

[Zip]

A lot of times that's what admin tells them to do. Maybe not directly, but they make it very clear very quickly on if they're actually willing to uphold consequences for kids not doing their work. Retention is becoming more and more taboo, and when there's no real consequence for kids failing, I'm not surprised that it creates a sense of apathy real quick. Especially when, like you said, failing them and actually giving them the grade they earned potentially results in a ton of meetings, tons of documentation, angry parents, and admin who make you feel like you did something wrong.

I think very few people enter teaching not wanting to make a difference, but the system and overall lack of professional respect breaks them real quick.

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Not in the U.S. but I always remember from my later teaching days a student that I gave a failing grade to for not submitting his final major assignment in time or with proper citations and solid content. Guy had been half-assing the whole course from the get-go with low quality work, so a bad mark for the final just tipped him over the edge.

Admin stepped in immediately to reverse it, mentioning that the program could get in trouble if a student failed out because entry was supposed to be selective.

Student ended up dropping out of the program a bit later anyway.

On-topic - it is all too common for people to characterize and come to look down on those they are providing service to. Those teachers and staff forgot themselves in a circle jerk of self-given sense of superiority.