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Scarlett Johansson Says She Has the Right to Portray ‘Any Person’ She Wants
- Thread starter T'Chakku
- Start date
Ariel isn't real, she's a mermaid. Sonic isn't real, he's a hedgehog. Fans went nuclear on Sonic and forced Sega to change Sonics design. Ariel fans enraged are just as justified as Sonic fans in their rage. Yes some are racist, but I think they're simply the vocal minority.
Fans went nuclear because they hated the design. People aren't going nuclear because they hate Ariel's design, shit we haven't even seen it yet. They are going nuclear because they don't want a black woman playing what was previously a white character. That's it. You can be naive, or try and defend that bullshit, but that's the reason. If you honestly believe racists, in an instance like this, represent a "vocal minority" you are just plain ignorant.
I suppose she's right. She does have that right. However I also have the right to voice my disdain for her position and her role in displacing and erasing actual opportunities for minority actors in minority roles
I can't believe we've arrived here.
I'm giggling. I'm actually giggling.
We're comparing racism to sonic. It's such a wonderfully stupid place to take the conversation, and yet, it went there.
When will we see equal rights for blue hedgehogs?
Justifications for racism usually end up becoming really really stupid, but this might be a favourite.
I'm giggling. I'm actually giggling.
We're comparing racism to sonic. It's such a wonderfully stupid place to take the conversation, and yet, it went there.
When will we see equal rights for blue hedgehogs?
Justifications for racism usually end up becoming really really stupid, but this might be a favourite.
We already agree that some fans mad are indeed mad because of racism, but I maintain it's a minority. However, Ariel isn't real, like Sonic. She's a mermaid who had a previously well-established design, like Sonic. If anything, the changes to Ariel are much bigger than the changes that made Sonic fans go berserk. Making Ariel black would be like Sega making Sonic Red. It's such an over-the-top, drastic change to what fans remember before.
We're comparing fandoms going berserk to changes made to beloved fictional characters. Ariel is a Mermaid, she isn't real. Sonic is a Hedgehog, he isn't real. It's literally the same thing.
Must be nice to be able to live in a perpetual state of blissful ignorance.
Wow, how rude of you to call me ignorant, I never once talked down to you. I just don't agree with you is all, no need to make it personal.
WOW! Why are you being so mean to me man? Here I am having a nice, if heated, discussion and now you're being so very disrespectful.
I liked Rush, which also didn't do well, but agree, white actors are given chance after chance after chance.
Sure, and people have the right to criticize her casting in a role and lament that a more appropriate minority actor or actress wasn't chosen.
I'm surprised these multi-millionaires don't have common sense PR people telling them basic do's and don'ts.
Your argument is an insulting one and you're acting like it's just neutral disagreement. The frustration isn't coming out of nowhere.
No matter how passionate you are there's no need to result to personal attacks. It's fine for us to disagree, it's not fine to be disrespectful. There's nothing insulting about my argument, it's a very fair and valid comparison between Ariel and Sonic, who are both fictional, fantasy characters. Fans mad about Ariel are the same as fans mad about Sonic for the most part. Yes there are bad actors in the Ariel fandom, but they're a minority. It's fine if you disagree, but no need to insult me.
If this were the kind of thinking everyone adopted, what do you think would be the outcome in predominantly white Hollywood?
Keep in mind there's an inherent bias in how people perceive "more talented" or "more deserving actors" that leads to a certain trend...
People are getting mad at you because your analogy is broken and makes no sense.
For Sonic, people saw Sonic's movie design, compared it to the game design and said this looks better.
For Ariel, people heard that she will be black instead of white and went insane. There is no comparison, there is no design that we've seen yet. The very idea that she is a black woman is what they are angry about.
If they saw what she looks like in the movie and then complained that the animated version looked better (which frankly is true of every single one of these live action remakes) you might have a disengenous leg to stand on. But they aren't angry at the design they haven't seen. They are angry that a black woman is playing the character.
And if you want to argue that they are upset by the VERY IDEA OF CHANGE (which is a stupid argument and they should be mocked anyways in that case), then they wouldn't want any live action remakes in the first place as they must make changes by their very nature and there would've been similar outrage to every other live action remake (WHY WASN'T BALOO BLUE MOTHERFUCKERS?!?!???).
So, people are interpreting your broken argument as you either being a racist that's trying to be subtle about it, or you being naive and lacking in critical thinking who is willing to give racists the benefit of the doubt.
Stop comparing "Sonic fans" to "Ariel fans". The argument is not sound and makes you look horrible.
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One is inherently a humanoid, even with a fish tail. The other is an anthropomorphized animal. These are not equivalent. Pick a different bad analogy.
You're comparison with actual real world racism with sonic the hedgehog is disrespectful.
This whole "pick the best regardless" mindset completely ignores the FACT that one color is predominately given more chances over the other. That's what's insulting about it.
And the fact that we're all pretending that we're not arguing with someone's alt account.
Sonic people look to the OG game design they remember, and Ariel fans look to the OG 2D film design they remember. Yes there are some fans who simply hate black people, but they're a loud minority of fans who are arguing in good faith. As I said before, the Ariel change is much bigger than the Sonic change, because Sonic still had the same color design, just a few changes that made fans go nuclear. Ariel is a pale as a ghost Mermaid who was suddenly given a very noticeable change in design with her skin. That's just as much of a valid reason to complain as Sonic, if not moreso. Being a black woman has nothing to do with it, so much as the drastically different design that comes with said black woman. A Red Sonic would have made fans go even more crazy than they already did, it's more or less the same thing.
Design change for the sake of a new medium is different than design change that affects the characters entire OG design, ala Sonic looking different from his OG design, live action or not. Sonic fans weren't freaking out because he was realistic, but because his realistic design didn't match his OG design. It's the same thing for Ariel fans, minus a few loud racists complaining. And I'm not some self-hating black guy here, so I don't know why you're insinuating I'm somehow racist. I'll respectfully ask you and others to refrain from further personal attacks.
Okay I think this is more than enough evidence that this is a troll account.
Asian people aren't fucking fictional like a goddamn mermaid, friend.
Ariel isn't real, and neither is Sonic. Just because a few loud racists are hijacking the discussion doesn't mean the majority of Ariel fans upset are racist as well. Like I've been explaining, Ariel had a distinct design that fans loved & wanted faithfully adapted. They're entitled to their outrage without being labeled as a bunch of racists due to a few bad faith actors.
Racists trying to make the whole conversation "absurd" to prevent actual discussion of merit. And so they can call us "mean" and "unreasonable" when we point out the deep flaws in the argument and dismiss them. The usual playbook.
Jesus Christ the hostility needs to stop, I'm not a troll, I just have a different opinion from some of you. I get this is a passionate discussion, but that doesn't justify the rudeness & disrespect. Why can't I just disagree without being a troll? This is my picture, not some fake one. I can post another one if you need more proof, it's from my photo bucket.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing concerns surrounding representation over multiple posts
This whole conversation is because she wasn't asian enough to adapt 2D anime [robot] titties to the big screen.
The same nerds will complain that Ghost in the Shell has lots of titties.
I'm 100% serious here, I'm not joking around. Ariel isn't real, neither is Sonic. I've seen some Ariel fans try to argue about light under the water would make her Pale, or use some other kind of ridiculous real world fish example when all they need to do is simply say they don't appreciate the change to the OG design. She's not real, she's a fictional, fantasy character, like Sonic. It's OK to be upset by her drastic design change.
Have you considered the potential idea that all those majority ARE also racist? But don't want to admit that to themselves? Just asking.
Yes, the racists need to be coached on how to not be so openly racist. That's the issue.
Nah, you're conveniently forgetting that she almost did a trans person/character before a backlash happened.
youre right, if we want to be respectful to the Japanese source material we need to get an 'asian' actress (maybe Chinese, they'd love that)
Is this the hill that people are willing to die on?
I understand that yes, somtimes the vocal majority don't represent a fanbases silent majority, and genuine complaints about a film or character can be overshadowed by racism/misogyny (See: The Last Jedi) But that's not whats happening with the little mermaid. Why? Because the film isn't fucking out yet.
The difference is that Sonic (i can't even believe this is a point of argument) fans weren't necessarily annoyed that the design was changed, it's that the new design itself was almost objectively bad. His origin for the most part has been changed, as has robotniks yet people don't mind that aspect. At most, it's staying true to the character attitude, and the main points of his character.
Ariel's character is not defined by her being white, hell the only feature she is defined by is that she is young, sings, and is a mermaid. That's it. Thats her character. She can be any skill colour she needs to be, because her skin colour has nothing to do with her origin or characteristics. Whereas someone like Mulan has a character that is directly tied to the culture and her story it is based on, and that's why you can't have the usually alt right thing off 'WelL WHat IF I MADE MuLAN A WHITE MAN HUH????????'. Then you're ruining an important aspect of the entire plot and character
The little mermaid is not a franchise with established lore or a roaring fanbase. It is a singular movie from years ago that people are using as an excuse for there battleground of 'Fuck SJW/PC disney, black people/women only get cast because of diversity not because they are good'.
Like honestly, you keep saying that Ariels character design is drastically changed (Without even seeing her incostume mind you). That arguement doesn't hold up, and i genuinely don't understand how you could be missing whats wrong with the undertones of racism that people are giving off when they complain (even if they themselves don't know what they are doing.). Literally the only difference with her character design will be that she's black. You genuinely don't think the people complaining are racist when they will go 'Ariel Design with white skin ? Great. Black Skin? No don't want it'. Are you that dense or just blissfully ignorant?'
Back to scarJo. Yes, in a perfect world any could play anyone. However, we don't live in a perfect world. And saying 'I should play whoever i want, at the expense of other people more suited for the role' is missing a colossal amount of context. the Minority roles she has chosen are historical low in number, and especially low in leading roles. Many actors and actresses are fighting against being type cast and only being able to play minor characters, which are usually stereotypes, and so the opportunity both cultural, for the industry, and for the actors to be able to play a character like them in a leading role in a blockbuster franchise is huge, and something that hollywood needs.
ScarJo however is not entirely to blame, as its the studio execs and casting directors who gave her the opportunity in the first place.
Her redesigns aren't even released yet, and you're claiming people are upset over the redesign and you're claiming it isn't just racism.
And look at your own comment.
You either can't decide if the racist are a minority or a majority. Your argument is falling apart cause you are ignorant.
Straight people play LGBTQ and LGBTQ play straight people from time to time. It's only a problem when they make ignorant jokes at the expense of their roles and stereotyping.
It doesn't matter if the film is out, Ariel fans already know she's going to be changed from her original design to a radically different one. Why did Sonic fans think the new design was terrible? Because it was so drastically different from the OG game design, that's the point. The most Sega would do is restore his design to the one fans remember from the games, in live action form. Ariel's pale skin tone was without a question a core part of her design, like literally any other fictional characters with recognizable color palettes.
Sonic fans would get mad if Sega made him Red even more than they already did with the small changes they gave him. Why? Because it's drastically different to what they remember, for no justifiable artistic reason. If Disney fans as a whole made as big a stink about say Princess and the Frog then they'd just be racist, but Ariel fans angry that the character they remember is being drastically changed design wise are within their right to be upset without being labeled racist, ala Sonic fans that were outraged. It's a matter of drastic design change, when fandoms are know to go off over petty changes all the time.
Yes absolutely racists latch onto this to engage in their culture wars, but I maintain they're a minority of fans who are otherwise arguing in good faith. And here's another pic to prove I'm not some white dude using black face.
User Banned (Permanent): Troll account.
Released or not she's going to be radically different design wise from her OG design via a radically different color palette. Going from white skin to black skin is a drastic change that you don't have to be racist to take note of. If fans sperg out over the tiniest changes then why wouldn't they sperg out over such a drastic change as this? That's why I bring up the Sonic backlash. And I've stated both times in those quotes that racists are a vocal minority, so what are you arguing? And again, please drop the personal attacks.