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Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,671
Miami
The scalebound that he had been making and showing didn't look great, far from it, so I'm going to trust Microsoft's judgement on this one. They don't sink tens of millions of dollars and years of investment in to games and then just cancel them for fun.

Let's trust the company that has poor judgement on games and not the guy with the perfect track record. Ok.

MS is the perfect company to just throw away money cause they have so much of it. They have no need for a Japanese action game when crap like sea of thieves sells so much.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,872
Look at the NeoGAF threads I linked up above - everyone saying it was one of the most disappointing of the show and how bad it looked.

Then it got cancelled and suddenly everyone says it was looking amazing. How quickly the narrative changed just so MS could get shit on.

You are really over simplifying things. Most people thought it was a bad showing, but plenty of people were still looking forward to it. Even when the game was cancelled plenty of people talked about the bad showings.

Not "everyone" said it looked amazing after being cancelled. No doubt there are some trolls around who just like the stir the pot, but don't let that blind you to the fact that most people are far more balanced and honest.
 

jesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,050
UK
Is that what you think this is about? Kamiya has a stellar track record with his games, Platinum is a well regarded developer, maybe people just had faith in the team behind it even if it didn't look exceptional in its demos. I didn't post on the old place but my enthusiasm isn't new, and in the places I did visit I know I wasn't alone. There was certainly negativity but it wasn't exclusive. A lot of people were looking forward to this. I feel like the frustration with Microsoft is understandable, it isn't people just looking for excuses to shit on them.

Look at the replies numbers to these Scalebound threads on the old place.
Look at the discrepancy between the cancelled threads and the new news threads

fb566ec4a79a8a1acafa577c9581b04b.png
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
I was working on ReCore at the time and for Gamescom our media room was right across the hall. I had some free time on the final day and a friend invited me to take part in one of the media sessions.

I was looking forward to the game up to that point, but I had to admit that something felt like it was missing. I was mostly just trusting Kamiya and his team's pedigree.

However, during that session they showed off the Dragon Link system and after that brief look I was a believer. It really helped hammer in the scale of the battles taking place and made for some really interesting combos.

Still disappointed that it got canceled.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
MS has had a pretty poor track record in managing game projects this gen so I'm not sure they deserve the benefit of the doubt a lot more than a director that only puts out stellar games.

MS rushed to 2014 to have an impressive showing after struggling at launch and Revealed a bunch of games via misleading CGI trailers that in at least some cases the developers didn't know about.
Crack down 3 was announced *4 years ago* and was originally slated for 2016 so poor management pushed the title back 2 years.
Phantom Dust became phantom dust.
They got the developers of Metroid Prime and pimped out their reputation resulting in a mediocre budget title released a few years later.
Sea of Thieves was announced 3 years ago and launched with very little content leading to a mixed to poor critical and gam reception.
MCC launched broken and is still being fixed.
Halo and Gears seem to in a decline.

But, sure, it's all on PG
 

CRIMSON-XIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,176
Chicago, IL
i heard from someone that Scalebound had some interesting towns to explore and that the NPC interactions were interesting and "felt nextgen for an RPG" .. It was my impression that those elements combined with the combat we saw would have been a cool AAA rpg.

Don't know how i felt about that boss battle shown at E3 though..
 

Deleted member 26104

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,362
Let's trust the company that has poor judgement on games and not the guy with the perfect track record. Ok.

MS is the perfect company to just throw away money cause they have so much of it. They have no need for a Japanese action game when crap like sea of thieves sells so much.
What poor judgement are you talking about?

Kamiya might have a good record, but platinum don't. They've made more mediocre to bad games than good recently.

If ms liked throwing money away they would've kept funding the game.
 

Eddie Hills

Alt account
Banned
May 4, 2018
49
MS has had a pretty poor track record in managing game projects this gen so I'm not sure they deserve the benefit of the doubt a lot more than a director that only puts out stellar games.

MS rushed to 2014 to have an impressive showing after struggling at launch and Revealed a bunch of games via misleading CGI trailers that in at least some cases the developers didn't know about.
Crack down 3 was announced *4 years ago* and was originally slated for 2016 so poor management pushed the title back 2 years.
Phantom Dust became phantom dust.
They got the developers of Metroid Prime and pimped out their reputation resulting in a mediocre budget title released a few years later.
Sea of Thieves was announced 3 years ago and launched with very little content leading to a mixed to poor critical and gam reception.
MCC launched broken and is still being fixed.
Halo and Gears seem to in a decline.

But, sure, it's all on PG


No it was unexpected delays.

The xbox did not struggle at launch. This revisionist history keeps being repeated. Xbox trending down were not clear until after we "seen" Titanfall. Which while it did well, basically sold to the install base.

They got "some" devs from prime most not significant with the lead being a guy who let alien about him being the creator of a franchise go on for years and the director of mighty no9 and a shady Kickstarter campaign.

The fact that crackdown is being released and not scalebound is likely because both sides had something to do with the cancellation. It seems odd to me many people are going after Ms on this including people who had no interest in the game until it was cancelled.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,286
Or they cut the cord too early because they didn't realize what they had and were deaf to the game's needs.

Eh, this is the sunken cost fallacy, thinking you can fix things with more investment. "Throwing good money after bad" and all that. The correct business decision is not to continue to throw money at something if you think it won't pay off.

I probably would've gotten this game, but it most certainly would've flopped. Maybe for a smaller budget, it could've ended up in the black. But with the dev costs over the years rising, this game wouldn't have made it back.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,671
Miami
What poor judgement are you talking about?

Kamiya might have a good record, but platinum don't. They've made more mediocre to bad games than good recently.

If ms liked throwing money away they would've kept funding the game.

You can just read the list from a few posts above yours. Kamiya was making the game, doesn't matter what platinums record was, his is perfect. But MS and most companies don't care how great the game is just how much money it will make them and I totally agree they would have lost money on it just cause that kind of game wasn't going to sell to their level no matter the quality.

Nintendo let him finish W101 and it sold like 5 copies. MS didn't let him finish scalebound because it was a bad buisness decision for them, probably not cause of the state of the game. (Maybe it went overbudget too)
 

bear force one

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,305
Orlando
Between this cancellation and the killing of True Fantasy Online I'll never really forgive Microsoft.

Endless wrath.
 

Fezan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,274
So why aren't they make such a big ambitious game for Nintendo or Sony?.

Not sure may be because platinum doesn't want to be in such a risky position again. Rumor is After scalebound was canceled Platinum was almost going to go under but Nier automata saved their asses
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,421
This always seemed pretty terrible to me. And as someone who has never played a Kamiya game in his life, and also dislikes Japanese games pretty much all around, the cancellation didn't bother me one bit.

Also, this seemed more like this Kamiya charecters fault than Microsofts. Egos can be a problem, also these Jokers consider themselves as some kind of artists. Lol

What the fuck is this post
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,993
Texas
I'm gonna be honest and say I was never very hyped for this once more detail came out and I learned it wasn't an ambitious MH clone. Each time they showed it I got less excited.

Still a shame that it got cancelled given it was one of only a few attempts at that sort of IP from MS this gen.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Wow dude, what an OP! Better and more detailed than a bloody gaming outlet article lol.

Even though the game looked rather rough, I really think Microsoft should have stuck with it. Had a tonne of potential, and was really quite grandiose in concept.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,575
Look at the replies numbers to these Scalebound threads on the old place.
Look at the discrepancy between the cancelled threads and the new news threads

fb566ec4a79a8a1acafa577c9581b04b.png
This is a pretty poor argument. I don't own an XBone, and I probably never would've played Scalebound, but discussing the cancellation of a game, from a company whose games I generally enjoy, is something I'd definitely participate in. This isn't the gotcha you seem to think it is.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
This always seemed pretty terrible to me. And as someone who has never played a Kamiya game in his life, and also dislikes Japanese games pretty much all around, the cancellation didn't bother me one bit.

Also, this seemed more like this Kamiya charecters fault than Microsofts. Egos can be a problem, also these Jokers consider themselves as some kind of artists. Lol
The flying fuck is this?
 

jesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,050
UK
This is a pretty poor argument. I don't own an XBone, and I probably never would've played Scalebound, but discussing the cancellation of a game, from a company whose games I generally enjoy, is something I'd definitely participate in. This isn't the gotcha you seem to think it is.

Well I wasn't talking to you, was I.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
This is a pretty poor argument. I don't own an XBone, and I probably never would've played Scalebound, but discussing the cancellation of a game, from a company whose games I generally enjoy, is something I'd definitely participate in. This isn't the gotcha you seem to think it is.
And yet it shows there was very little interest in the game before it's cancellation.
 

Sapo84

Member
Oct 31, 2017
309
And yet it shows there was very little interest in the game before it's cancellation.
And yet it was one of the most anticipated xbox exclusives in the voting threads.
Oh yeah, everyone was trolling, right.

Revisionism won't change the fact that it was still a project that, in a niche where W101 is a beloved game (like someone above said it sold nothing), it attracted some interest and it obviously were missed when it got canned.
We don't need to use console war arguments in every thread, MS decided to cancel the game, it may have been a good business decision but we will never know, and every cancellation leads to disappointment, and it was even more felt because at the start of 2017 there weren't many xbox exclusives to began with.
The argument about people liking the game in retrospective just to shit on MS is honestly offensive and disrespectful to the people that actually wanted to talk about the game instead of the usual petty arguments between console sides.

P.S. I think the E3 demo looked like a turd though (the concept was indeed interesting and the OP did a good job on describing what the game could have looked like, but I just wasn't feeling it from the demo).
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
Banned
May 9, 2018
5,741
a game mishandled by both Platinum and MS (with rumors from MS signaling pretty bad shit if true)

Maybe one day they can find another dev to either revive it or it take it in a slightly different direction. Definitely a game I would have LOVED to have on my X for release. Rest in Peace sweet prince.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,575
Well I wasn't talking to you, was I.
Great argument.

And yet it shows there was very little interest in the game before it's cancellation.
Maybe if you conveniently ignore where most of the initial discussion took place.

S5EiBDB.jpg


When so few details and media are released, discussion's going to inevitably drop off until something major happens. In this case, the cancellation, which brought out people who may not be interested in buying it, but are well within their rights to acknowledge this as a shitty thing to happen.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Scalebound was the Xbox-exclusive I was looking the most to, not because it demo-ed well ( it demo-ed poorly ), but because conceptually it was the most interesting of MS's announced new IPs at that time, for me personally.

There's always games that tick your every creative fantasy on paper, but ultimately do not deliver in the execution and presentation of it. (e.g. The Order )
 

jesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,050
UK
Great argument.


Maybe if you conveniently ignore where most of the initial discussion took place.

S5EiBDB.jpg


When so few details and media are released, discussion's going to inevitably drop off until something major happens. In this case, the cancellation, which brought out people who may not be interested in buying it, but are well within their rights to acknowledge this as a shitty thing to happen.

You mentioned something about you owning an xbone, I wasn't talking to you was I?
I was replying to something, someone said.
Then you started talking about yourself...

That thing you posted, I assume was a Reddit picture?
I don't use Reddit.
Why don't you post other Scalebound Reddit threads that show how popular Scalebound was back then
Some sort of new news threads.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,575
You mentioned something about you owning an xbone, I wasn't talking to you was I?
I was replying to something, someone said.
Then you started talking about yourself...

That thing you posted, I assume was a Reddit picture?
I don't use Reddit.
Why don't you post other Scalebound Reddit threads that show how popular Scalebound was back then
Some sort of new news threads.
I was relating why someone (myself for example) might participate in a big news thread, but not a small comic book announcement thread. Just because you were talking to someone else doesn't mean I can't point out how poor your argument is.

And sorry, I'll uncrop that image for you a little.

x40l7Pk.jpg
 

jesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,050
UK
I was relating why someone (myself for example) might participate in a big news thread, but not a small comic book announcement thread. Just because you were talking to someone else doesn't mean I can't point out how poor your argument is.

And sorry, I'll uncrop that image for you a little.

x40l7Pk.jpg

So that was the announcement thread in 2014, who was talking about it in 2016?
Barely anyone gave a shit, that is what I was showing.

Just look at the replies, until it got cancelled.

https://www./search/75402/?page=3&q=scalebound&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance
https://www./search/75402/?page=2&q=scalebound&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance
https://www./search/75402/?q=scalebound&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

Thousands upon thousands from when it got cancelled, 80 or 90 when there was a new thread.
 

XrossExam

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,904
Really? I found most PG games to be incredibly polished imo.

Well depends, yes they're polished to their fans but I think to some outside gamers who don't love everything Platinum makes, probably think their games are somewhat lacking in AAA presentation. Personally I think their games are polished, I basically am saying that their games tend to not be perfect score type games to the mainstream, but their audience typically finds them to be in a higher rank that what their games usually get.

Now when I think of Scalebound it makes sense that it fell apart. The whole reveal and marketing remind me of the build up and release of Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite. It just didn't seem like the game was ready to be shown but they showed it anyway. Poor reception to the trailer and gameplay can really hurt a game's future.
 

Deleted member 17403

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,664
Man, I thought that the game looked awesome. I think it's gameplay could've used some work but it's Platinum so I'm sure it would've been worked out but it's sade that it never received the change to mature and grow. I think it would've been a hit, maybe not in the way that Horizon was a hit but I think it would've done well for both Microsoft and especially Platinum. Such a waste, maybe it'll pop up again in the future having been retooled.
 

lusca_bueno

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,472
I really don't understand how this game came to this conclusion tbh. Platinum Games is one of 3 studios in the whole existence I can trust will always do a perfect job. Their games might not be the tech showcases MS hoped for apparently, but thet're authentic games to the very core at least.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
I really don't understand how this game came to this conclusion tbh. Platinum Games is one of 3 studios in the whole existence I can trust will always do a perfect job. Their games might not be the tech showcases MS hoped for apparently, but thet're authentic games to the very core at least.

There's (presumably) no such thing as an infallible studio, no matter how stellar the previous track record.

Bioware shipped ME: Andromeda. RDR's development was a nightmare. Bungie rebooted Destiny and Destiny 2 partway through development. Uncharted 4 had to be rebooted, and I'm pretty sure the list goes on on.
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,172
You can just read the list from a few posts above yours. Kamiya was making the game, doesn't matter what platinums record was, his is perfect. But MS and most companies don't care how great the game is just how much money it will make them and I totally agree they would have lost money on it just cause that kind of game wasn't going to sell to their level no matter the quality.

Nintendo let him finish W101 and it sold like 5 copies. MS didn't let him finish scalebound because it was a bad buisness decision for them, probably not cause of the state of the game. (Maybe it went overbudget too)

He is a great director but i wouldnt call his record perfect. Wonderful 102 is not a very good game in my opinion. Nobody is perfect and MS knows more about the development and state of the game then we most likely ever will.
 

Deleted member 26104

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,362
Except it was one of the most anticipated Xbox games on the old place.
It was also one of the most criticised, and clearly not one that people cared enough to discuss until it was cancelled. I posted links to threads where it was basically universally criticised.

The threads about it had next to no replies until it got cancelled then all of a sudden everyone wanted to talk about it.

Also lol at people basically just saying kamiya doesn't ever make bad games so this was going to be great. Not how it works.
 

SpinlyLimbs

Banned
Feb 1, 2018
914
You can just read the list from a few posts above yours. Kamiya was making the game, doesn't matter what platinums record was, his is perfect. But MS and most companies don't care how great the game is just how much money it will make them and I totally agree they would have lost money on it just cause that kind of game wasn't going to sell to their level no matter the quality.

Nintendo let him finish W101 and it sold like 5 copies. MS didn't let him finish scalebound because it was a bad buisness decision for them, probably not cause of the state of the game. (Maybe it went overbudget too)
Platinum and Kamiya both said they pitched the idea for Scalebound to a bunch of publishers over the years. There may very well be a good reason nobody else picked it up. Also, you'd think a director with a "perfect" record would manage to get a project running above 15fps at the very least.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,393
I really don't understand how this game came to this conclusion tbh. Platinum Games is one of 3 studios in the whole existence I can trust will always do a perfect job. Their games might not be the tech showcases MS hoped for apparently, but thet're authentic games to the very core at least.
They were making a title literally more ambitious than anything else they've ever done on top of using a new engine instead of their in-house one. The combination of those two factors is hella risky for any studio.
 

Raider34

Banned
May 8, 2018
1,277
United States
Honestly I think Phil had no choice but to pull the plug myerson was more than likely pressuring him to do so and the money had to be spent elsewhere wouldn't be shocked if we see a updated revival of the game
 

Charsace

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,871
Fable legends was a bad game. I was in the beta, gave it multiple attempts to grab me, and it was just bad. It went through like 3 different iterations and settled on being a F2P game eventually, and it would have been a financial and critical bomb. It wasn't even technically great, with some pretty graphics but a shonky framerate.

All that we'd seen of scalebound was 2-3 bad demos in 3 years. It was not in a good state.

For people saying everyone thought it was amazing and everyone was excited for it:

https://www./threads/scalebound-xb1-pc-2017-xbox-e3-briefing-2016.1232689/

https://www./threads/biggest-disappointment-of-e3.1235845/page-2

It might have won the poll on there for most wanted Xbox exclusive, but I'm certain that was just trolling because it looked bad and people said it looked bad.
I played Fable Legends for 2 years up until its last day. The game started out bad yeah. And then the devs turned it around. The last few months it was really good and one of the best looking games around. It wasn't finished though and the devs obviously needed more time and money to get in more content. The game was already a huge money sink by that point and that is what killed it.
 

II JumPeR I

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,770
Germany
I played Fable Legends for 2 years up until its last day. The game started out bad yeah. And then the devs turned it around. The last few months it was really good and one of the best looking games around. It wasn't finished though and the devs obviously needed more time and money to get in more content. The game was already a huge money sink by that point and that is what killed it.
Legends was heavily downgraded in later builds. Framerate was very rough in the first builds. At the end the game was just a terrible free 2 play grind fest. Sure it had the Fable Artstyle but everything else was just terrible
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
The original concept with the little girl who doesn't do much direct fighting is so much more interesting than the crap they ended up with.

And MS probably cancelled it because it was bad and they didn't want to finish funding a turd. I don't know that for sure, but the fact that it looked like ass seems to support this
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
London, UK
This thread was made regardless of what the games quality would have been in the end.

I understand it probably wasn't going to be a good game, but I also don't think it's an issue to collect the information we did have about the game and make a place to talk about it.

You are right and i did realise after putting my comment that this wasn't the place for it.

Apologies.