SarahZ discusses the Twilight phenomenon, including its current renaissance

[Naijaboy]

As with many things, what o was old is new again. In that case it's the most infamous book series of the modern era. After a few years of irrelevance, the books have become popular again, both creating new fans as well as more mature criticisms of the series. SarahZ looks into the history of the Twilight fandom as well as its return to prominence.

 

[Bradford]

Thanks for posting. I've smashed the bell, demolished the like button AND subscribed but YouTube has decided not to give me notifications for her channel despite this, so I would have missed it otherwise.

 

[Lobster Roll]

One of my closest friends is a huge Twilight nerd and sends me Twilight / KStew stuff every day. Gonna share this with her and also give it a watch. Thanks, OP.

 

[EloquentM]

Oh my
Some girl on bumble told me she's been watching these a lot. Is this gonna be a thing again? I can't ERA, I can't experience this horror again.

 

[MrNewVegas]

I've never read them but I haven't seen a book series like it. I remember seeing those books everywhere and anywhere. I assume the advent of the smart phone has killed off any future series being carried around everywhere.

 

[Birdie]

Maybe it's too late but I gotta get on that YA train and make some money

 

[BAW]

Shouldn't a renaissance be about something... good?

 

[EloquentM]

I've read all the books and seen all the movies...for research purposes. I still have nightmares.

 

[Bradford]

I would like to share this Lindsay Ellis video as required reading as well for those surprised that Twilight is coming back:



A good companion piece and primer on how Twilight has been essentially ripe for a fandom revival for a long time as it continues to be re-examined in new contexts.

 

[Cipherr]

Misunderstood what this was about.

 

[Deleted member 511]

I watched this earlier and enjoyed it. I appreciate her highlighting the series issues. I've been enjoying the memes from it all but I don't think I can ever fully 'like' Twilight as I did when the first movie game out lol. Also Leah deserved better!

I would like to share this Lindsay Ellis video as required reading as well for those surprised that Twilight is coming back:



A good companion piece and primer on how Twilight has been essentially ripe for a fandom revival for a long time as it continues to be re-examined in new contexts.

Click to shrink...

I personally stopped watching her stuff after this video. She could've (and should've) titled this video 'I'm Sorry Twilight fans'. because making a video that's putting someone who is mostly likely a racist in a sympathetic light was strange to me. I kept waiting for her to address the racism within the series and the issues with Meyer in that video and she never did from what I remember which kind of made me uncomfortable as a person of color watching.

 

[Deleted member 52442]

it's... coming back??

i like the series but had no idea. maybe it's cause midnight sun came out kinda recently?

 

[El Bombastico]

I would like to share this Lindsay Ellis video as required reading as well for those surprised that Twilight is coming back:



A good companion piece and primer on how Twilight has been essentially ripe for a fandom revival for a long time as it continues to be re-examined in new contexts.

Click to shrink...

I mostly love Lindsay but I fucking hate this video cause it makes Myer out to be some victim an completely ignores the fucking racism present in her books.

 

[Bradford]

I mostly love Lindsay but I fucking hate this video cause it makes Myer out to be some victim an completely ignores the fucking racism present in her books.

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I watched this earlier and enjoyed it. I appreciate her highlighting the series issues. I've been enjoying the memes from it all but I don't think I can ever fully 'like' Twilight as I did when the first movie game out lol. Also Leah deserved better!


I personally stopped watching her stuff after this video. She could've (and should've) titled this video 'I'm Sorry Twilight fans'. because making a video that's putting someone who is mostly likely a racist in a sympathetic light was strange to me. I kept waiting for her to address the racism within the series and the issues with Meyer in that video and she never did from what I remember which kind of made me uncomfortable as a person of color watching.

Click to shrink...

This is a good call-out for the video and I appreciate you taking the time to articulate. It is an angle I would like to watch more content directly about.

I still think the video is interesting as a critique of the predominantly male criticisms of twilight fandom but I do agree that she gives Meyer a lot of charitable slack that was not necessarily earned. Still, it is an interesting companion piece to this video due to the fandom aspect, which I thought paired nicely with some of the points Sarah is making about how participation has changed over time.

I also realize I may have come off like a twilight fan trying to rehab the view of twilight here - I am not, haha. I do not like Twilight one bit for, among others, the reasons you have stated.

 

[Naijaboy]

Shouldn't a renaissance be about something... good?

Click to shrink...

I just you can say that it's popular again, either ironically or genuinely. Sarah definitely did a more nuanced look at the franchise than Lindsay did. It helps that she went through both the loving and hating phases.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Wait, what? There's a Twilight renaissance? How did it happen?

 

[Regiruler]

I'm a straight dude, idk what compelled me to read all 4 books in middle school.

 

[Arebours]

.

 

[Royalan]

Another good video by SarahZ.

But whoa, how the heck did I miss that Meyer actually finished and released Midnight Sun last year?

 

[Naijaboy]

And let's be real, Twilight vampires would curbstomp most other vampires in fiction, even the modern ones like Vampire Diaries and True Blood.

 

[Barrel_Roll]

SarahZ puts out videos at a rate that I wish her frequent YT recommended cohorts Lindsay Ellis and Jenny E Nicholson would, though I guess the latter two probably have patreons with more content.

Sarah's video on Supernatural was very entertaining to someone who's never watched a single minute of the show.

 

[Deleted member 9241]

After 50 Shades of Gray became a thing, I honestly expected another Story of O revival similar to what happened in the late 80's/early 90's but that never happened.

If the Twilight series is on a cycle, it seems like a short one. Admittedly, my wife and 12&13 yr old daughters love both Twilight and Hunger Games. I wonder what their opinion on this video will be.

 

[Royalan]

SarahZ puts out videos at a rate that I wish her frequent YT recommended cohorts Lindsay Ellis and Jenny E Nicholson would, though I guess the latter two probably have patreons with more content.

Sarah's video on Supernatural was very entertaining to someone who's never watched a single minute of the show.

Click to shrink...

Well, to be fair to Jenny, she did just make a nearly 3 hour video on Vampire Diaries (...another 2010s white vampires media thing I loved hate watching. What was in the water in the 2010s?).

 

[molnizzle]

And let's be real, Twilight vampires would curbstomp most other vampires in fiction, even the modern ones like Vampire Diaries and True Blood.

Click to shrink...

Anne Rice vampires would fuck their sparkly asses up.

 

[Ariakon44]

SarahZ puts out videos at a rate that I wish her frequent YT recommended cohorts Lindsay Ellis and Jenny E Nicholson would, though I guess the latter two probably have patreons with more content.

Sarah's video on Supernatural was very entertaining to someone who's never watched a single minute of the show.

Click to shrink...

I think those other two have more editing to do and understand why their videos take a bit longer. Sarah is great, but her videos are more just her sitting at her couch and talking (which is perfectly fine) while Jenny to a certain extent and Lindsay to a greater extent tend to intersplice their commentary with video clips and other skits (I'm thinking of the werewolf porn/Addison Cain legal conversations specifically, haha) that must take a long time to sync with their commentary.

Not saying one way is worse or better, just that one takes longer than the other.

 

[lorddarkflare]

I watched this earlier and enjoyed it. I appreciate her highlighting the series issues. I've been enjoying the memes from it all but I don't think I can ever fully 'like' Twilight as I did when the first movie game out lol. Also Leah deserved better!


I personally stopped watching her stuff after this video. She could've (and should've) titled this video 'I'm Sorry Twilight fans'. because making a video that's putting someone who is mostly likely a racist in a sympathetic light was strange to me. I kept waiting for her to address the racism within the series and the issues with Meyer in that video and she never did from what I remember which kind of made me uncomfortable as a person of color watching.

Click to shrink...

I remember watching the video and the main point was really about just how shitty people were to Myer and her books at the time, and largely for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, it would have been nice had she actually called out Myer in that regard, but I don't think not doing so was some serious shortcoming.

At the very least, I did not think twilight was LESS shitty after watching it. Just a lot of the reasons we collectively thought it was shitty at the time had a lot less to do with some of its more egregious failures.

THAT SAID: I think you have identified something I have noticed about Lindsey's editing style: she is very focused with her central theses and does not tend to deviate from that as her contemporaries would. It does lead to things like this where some context not related to her original point would be valid, even if not necessary. The last time this frustrated me was her Borat video.

 

[GrimGrinningGuy]

Fun fact: I met the actor who played Spike in Buffy, at a comic con. Got my then girlfriend (now wife) an autograph. You shoulda heard him going on and on about the glittery sad twilight vampires. Was hilarious, he hates them so much haha

 

[Leeness]

Wasn't aware that there was a renaissance but I guess it happened because of Midnight Sun? That's all anyone ever wanted from her lol

Hour and a half? Going to watch this in the morning...haha. Really looking forward to it, as an early adopter of the "Twilight is abusive" camp back in the day.

However, I did somewhat soften on that stance a bit once 50 Shades came out and was like "lol hold my beer". Twilight is abusive, but it's very similar to many other "woman + immortal" stories, it's just got that "but it's actually true love and fine" marketed to teens twist that makes it shitty.

Then Midnight Sun came out and Edward spent nearly 50 minutes of my audiobook listen figuring out different ways that he could kill Bella and dump her body and I was dying lol. He also made sure to let us know he brought WD-40 when he frequented Bella's house at night, so, like a gentleman, he wouldn't wake her with a squeaky window when he broke in to watch her sleep lol.

(I want more Midnight Sun because Edward is insane, and New Moon from his perspective might actually be fun because he's gone for most of the Bella-centric book.)

 

[Oliver James]

Is Twilight making a comeback?

I'm a straight dude, idk what compelled me to read all 4 books in middle school.

Click to shrink...

It was all the rage back then. I personally just read the first book and I thought the powers were cool.

 

[Lynd]

I haven't felt it being mentioned online or whatever much. I know there was a new book that came out last year, but haven't felt the fandom gaining steam again.

Anyway, I wouldn't have met my wife without the series, so that's something lol.

 

[Neece]

Will watch this tomorrow.

Her and Jenny's hours long videos about subjects I otherwise know nothing about are great put on in the background stuff I like to listen to while I'm at work. Jenny's Vampire Diaries stuff was a fun listen. Sarah's Sherlock stuff was too. I like how they offer an overview of the series, critique, but also clearly outline why there is a fandom surrounding the material. It never feels mean spirited, even when they have real critique. Keep em coming.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

I was into the first 3 books as a 15 year old and would have defended the series till the last book which was just awful.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I was into the first 3 books as a 15 year old and would have defended the series till the last book which was just awful.

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The Breaking Dawn climax in the book is the greatest anti-climax in literary history... lmao

The movie ruins it by making it action packed and exciting.

200 pages of standing in two lines facing off at each other, like it's the start of a game of capture the fucking flag, in fight poses and then never fighting because ta-da Brazilian Vampire Baby Outta Nowhere... incredible stuff, I fucking laughed... reenacting by myself the anti-climax of Breaking Dawn was one of my go to ice breakers when I'd meet new people

 

[Nakho]

I thought it was cool how the vampires were basically mutants, each with a different power. But the rest was... yeah. I was definitely not the target audience, though lol

 

[excelsiorlef]

The fascinating thing about the series is... The Cullens minus Edward fucking rule....

 

[gunlovefiction]

The climax of the first film is extremely visceral

 

[Rendering...]

All I'm saying is Edward has a jawline for days, and the memory of Jacob's abs keeps me warm at night.

Also, please take note: Alice Cullen is best waifu, and I shan't hear otherwise.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

She is going to give herself arthritis holding her coffee cup like that for so long.

 

[Neece]

Why does she never drink from her coffee mug

 

[Naijaboy]

All I'm saying is Edward has a jawline for days, and the memory of Jacob's abs keeps me warm at night.

Also, please take note: Alice Cullen is best waifu, and I shan't hear otherwise.

Click to shrink...

Fun fact: I watched Eclipse right after The Last Airbender movie and despaired how I ended up liking the former better. Almost joined Team Jacob on Taylor Lautner's performance alone.

 

[Birdie]

I mocked the series when I was younger too but to be fair I always thought the "vampires don't sparkle!" complaint was bizarre since, you know, vampires aren't real.

Reminds me of the time I was on a fanfic site and this one holier-than-thou critic got on a dude for his werewolves not obeying proper werewolf behavior.

 

[Rendering...]

Fun fact: I watched Eclipse right after The Last Airbender movie and despaired how I ended up liking the former better. Almost joined Team Jacob on Taylor Lautner's performance alone.

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Honestly you can't be blamed.

 

[ChaosXVI]

I guess I'm out of the loop, I thought this series was continuing its gentle slide into obscurity, other than Midnight Sun finally coming out.

I do remember enjoying the books a great deal when I was in high school, but as soon as the movies came out they retroactively poisoned the whole series for me.

 

[RunningMan]

Well it is the quintessential love story of our time.

 

[Deleted member 46493]

Is the renaissance because of people who grew up with it now being old enough to have nostalgia?

We saw it happen to NES/SNES games in the early 2010s, now we're seeing it with GameCube/PS2 era games.

 

[Aaron]

This is a good call-out for the video and I appreciate you taking the time to articulate. It is an angle I would like to watch more content directly about.

I still think the video is interesting as a critique of the predominantly male criticisms of twilight fandom but I do agree that she gives Meyer a lot of charitable slack that was not necessarily earned. Still, it is an interesting companion piece to this video due to the fandom aspect, which I thought paired nicely with some of the points Sarah is making about how participation has changed over time.

I also realize I may have come off like a twilight fan trying to rehab the view of twilight here - I am not, haha. I do not like Twilight one bit for, among others, the reasons you have stated.

Click to shrink...

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be readily available but there was an amazing blog series called "Mark Reads Twilight" chronicling a guy's journey through the series chapter-by-chapter where he does an amazing job digging into the series' racism, misogyny, pedophilia, Mormon propaganda etc. and general toxicity that kind of gets glossed over by the go-to "LOL the vampires sparkle" commentary you'd see from non-readers.

Spoiler

Edward chagrinned

 

[AlexMeloche]

Wait, what? There's a Twilight renaissance? How did it happen?

Click to shrink...

Lockdowns.

Everyone I know who watched the movies when they were released rewatched them during COVID.

 

[Tabaxi]

I would like to share this Lindsay Ellis video as required reading as well for those surprised that Twilight is coming back:



A good companion piece and primer on how Twilight has been essentially ripe for a fandom revival for a long time as it continues to be re-examined in new contexts.

Click to shrink...

I get that popular criticism at the time was shallow, overtly misogynistic and dismissive because the primary audience was young women.

But also, fuck Stephenie Meyer. The blatant racism, the white nationalist mythologizing, the fact she explicitly didn't want POC portraying her vampires, the right-wing moralizing, glorifying grooming, glorifying the confederacy, the fact Breaking Dawn is an extended "abortion is bad" metaphor.

Meyer is a right-wing fundamentalist Mormon who wrote the books from that perspective - It's not a coincidence she previously singled out Orson Scott Card as an inspiration.

The misogyny and vitriol directed at the Twilight series because of its audience deserves to be examined and critiqued, but unless someone wants to play the "separate the artist and intent from the art" card, the series itself and the Meyer don't deserve an apology or a redemption arc.

 

[Leeness]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be readily available but there was an amazing blog series called "Mark Reads Twilight" chronicling a guy's journey through the series chapter-by-chapter where he does an amazing job digging into the series' racism, misogyny, pedophilia, Mormon propaganda etc. and general toxicity that kind of gets glossed over by the go-to "LOL the vampires sparkle" commentary you'd see from non-readers.

Spoiler

Edward chagrinned

Click to shrink...

Apparently Mark's host deleted everything. :( That was an incredible series.

He did sell them as e-books, but they weren't the same without the GIFS lol.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

I had no idea Meyer fought against having POC vampires.