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shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,353
Let's see if there is as much rabid "good lmfao" militant posting in this thread as the Apple sales forecast threads get.
There doesn't need to be any 'warring' here, let's be level headed. And in a level-headed tone myself, I think a lot of folks probably feel Apple grossly overprices all their products. I'm looking at phones myself so I can upgrade from my 6S and holy hell I ran for the hills looking at new iPhones honestly. Can we say the same for Samsung products? Probably not.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I mean I was asking a question not implying. Dont be so sensitive

It's not the components. It's the fact that Huawei and ZTE (and possibly other Chinese phone manufacturers) have extremely shady connections to Chinese military and government. Meaning that it's not implausible that the information gathered by these companies can end up in the hands of PRC government, which has a massive hard-on for information control.
This is the reason multiple governments including the US and several EU member states banned Chinese phones from being used as service phones for government officials and military personnel.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,925
Same as in the Apple thread - smartphones/tablets/wearables have peaked in feature sets.

The only thing left to improve upon is battery life and longevity, which doesn't sell more phones long-term.

All the focus in recent years has been on different ways to unlock devices (face/iris/fingerprint/etc...) but that's not giving you any new features to USE on your devices.

Apple/Samsung/etc... need to find new things to DO with your devices. Not just new ways to unlock them.
 

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,210
South East Asia
There doesn't need to be any 'warring' here, let's be level headed. And in a level-headed tone myself, I think a lot of folks probably feel Apple grossly overprices all their products. I'm looking at phones myself so I can upgrade from my 6S and holy hell I ran for the hills looking at new iPhones honestly. Can we say the same for Samsung products? Probably not.

One thing Samsung (and most Android phones) have going for them are the steep price cuts you get 3-4 months after launch. Right now I can pretty much get a Note 9 at 50% off with a ton of freebies included.

Not sure how it is in the west but iPhones rarely go on sale here.
 

Vinnie20

Banned
Dec 23, 2018
450
Samsung's smartphone market share in China went from 20% to literally 1% in the last few years. Samsung basically is following Apple closely.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,736
Both Apple and Samsung got cocky with their prices. That's the reason why Chinese brands sales are going through the roof.

I don't think Samsung has dramatically shifted the starting price between the S7, S8, and S9? Hasn't it consistently been at $720?

The Edge or plus model has usually been a $100 premium.

I don't think this has anything to do with becoming cocky. This was always going to happen because Samsung always had premium pricing. It was all a matter of time before Samsung took the hit. It was mainly the Note line where they attempted to go for extremely high pricing. If the Note line stayed at $800ish dollars and the plus line didn't exist, nearly the same results would have had happened.

Remember though that smartphone sales are still dropping everywhere. Obviously the relatively cheaper devices that offer bang for buck will do better on a world scale once an individual realizes what they can get to replace their old flagship Samsung or Apple.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
edit: misread, ignore

There doesn't need to be any 'warring' here, let's be level headed. And in a level-headed tone myself, I think a lot of folks probably feel Apple grossly overprices all their products. I'm looking at phones myself so I can upgrade from my 6S and holy hell I ran for the hills looking at new iPhones honestly. Can we say the same for Samsung products? Probably not.
I think you're grossly understating the level of anti Apple fanboyism that shits up every thread and I'm disappointed to see admin endorsement because it basically helps to ensure phone threads will remain a cesspool on Era.
 
Last edited:

Vinnie20

Banned
Dec 23, 2018
450
I really don't want to buy Chinese phones. Potential future security risk + supporting an authoritarian regime. I know, I know, it's not like I hold top secret clearance, but still, I'm funny that way.

You can look up premium Xiaomi phones. Their bootloaders are unlockable and you can flash whatever rom you want. They are usually cheaper than Huawei even in China.

Or LG phone if you just want cheaper non chinese phone.
 

borghe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,112
Yeah this is something a lot of people don't think about. You simply can't make "amazing" upgrades year over year
I get what you're saying, but I do want to phrase it differently. People want amazing CUSTOMER FACING upgrades year over year. They want new bells and whistles on their immediate user experience. And from 2000 to ~2012 this was possible because of the rapid advancement of all mobile technology. ALL MOBILE technology. Cameras, speakers, screens, enclosures, sensors, connectors, etc. Now that growth in a lot of those areas has slowed (speakers, camera sensors are at the limits of physics for their current size, USB Type C with enough headroom for the next 7-10 years, display density reaching the limits of human vision, etc) most of the major advancements are under the hood.. and unfortunately these don't become customer facing until devs figure out cool and widespread uses for them... and devs won't do this until said devices reach critical market penetration... and on and on we go.

so yeah, we do see amazing upgrades every year... but the nature of those upgrades at this point needs dev enablement.. which means mass critical adoption of a tier of hardware.. which means time. and of course consumers are like "OMG THIS IS COOL" when it happens... for about a month.. and then it's "well duh every app does that" even though a month or two earlier... no app did.
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,353
I think you're grossly understating the level of anti Apple fanboyism that shits up every thread and I'm disappointed to see admin endorsement because it basically helps to ensure phone threads will remain a cesspool on Era.
Endorsement? I'm telling everyone not to do it. I've rarely stepped into phone threads on here as it's not what I'm generally interested in, I don't see everything. If you see clear trolling going on, report it and move on.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
edit: misread, ignore

Endorsement? I'm telling everyone not to do it. I've rarely stepped into phone threads on here as it's not what I'm generally interested in, I don't see everything. If you see clear trolling going on, report it and move on.
To be clear, you said there's no warring to someone pointing out the ongoing warring, then you give a justification for what people were doing. That's why it comes off as an endorsement.

I've reported people that basically say up front that their posts are driven by a personal hate for apple as justification for their fanboy posts and the reports rarely are acted upon so here I am.
 
Last edited:

ISOM

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,684
Both Apple and Samsung got cocky with their prices. That's the reason why Chinese brands sales are going through the roof.

Samsung in particular can't continue to chase high prices when there are cheaper as good Android options on the market. Apple will always be that marquee rich device to some but Samsung isn't that to anyone imo.
 

Spartancarver

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,453
Let's see if there is as much rabid "good lmfao" militant posting in this thread as the Apple sales forecast threads get.

Lol you guys are really going all out trying to paint poor Apple as the victim here.

Sorry my sympathy for companies trying to sell me the same overpriced phone while artificially slowing down their existing phones every year is limited.
 

Deleted member 4518

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,278
That's not really surprising. The phone market has been stagnant for years. New devices haven't really had any interesting features to warrant upgrading year over year.

Plus, I imagine poor iPhone sales also hurt Samsung as well since some of their parts are used in Apple's devices as well.
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,353
To be clear, you said there's no warring to someone pointing out the ongoing warring, then you give a justification for what people were doing. That's why it comes off as an endorsement.

I've reported people that basically say up front that their posts are driven by a personal hate for apple as justification for their fanboy posts and the reports rarely are acted upon so here I am.
I said there shouldn't be any, which goes for anyone. I don't know which posts you refer to specifically as I rarely go into those threads, so giving a possible reason (not 'justification) is me speaking in hypotheticals.

Again, if something's clearly being said in bad faith to rile people up, keep reporting. If something's not acted upon, it's likely not that serious.
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
To be clear, you said there's no warring to someone pointing out the ongoing warring, then you give a justification for what people were doing. That's why it comes off as an endorsement.

I've reported people that basically say up front that their posts are driven by a personal hate for apple as justification for their fanboy posts and the reports rarely are acted upon so here I am.
I hope you're consistent when it comes to reporting and, report Apple fanboys, too (like: android users are poor, green bubbles are "x, y and z", I rather gouge my eyes instead of using Android, etc)
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
I said there shouldn't be any, which goes for anyone. I don't know which posts you refer to specifically as I rarely go into those threads, so giving a possible reason (not 'justification) is me speaking in hypotheticals.
Ok whoops, missed the "need" -- you're right. Sorry had just woken up.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Samsung and Apple are both going to lose marketshare because the smartphone market is becoming a value market. Innovation will be incremental, and the primary features customers will select are lower cost and reliability.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Samsung phones probably just about warrant their current prices. Best screens in the industry, always well made, waterproof, headphone jack, sd card slot, arguably one of the best cameras on Android and Samsung Experience has actually transformed into something that adds a lot to Google's barebones featureless AOSP.

When you start going super cheap with Xiaomi you tend to lack NFC, have to play the screen quality lottery with cheap LCD panels and even with phones being sold in Europe warranty is always a concern with less established manufacturers. Or no warranty if you're importing from China.

I don't think you can say Samsung overcharge as such, just there is competition if people are willing for some corners to be cut. Apple definitely overcharge, but you're paying for the brand/paying into a closed ecosystem with zero hardware competition.

The OnePlus was becoming a good competitor for Samsung, but lol at them cutting the headphone jack. They're starting to do what most companies do when you grow your brand, ramp up the price and follow the trends set by Apple/other bigger manufacturers.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
Samsung and Apple are both going to lose marketshare because the smartphone market is becoming a value market. Innovation will be incremental, and the primary features customers will select are lower cost and reliability.
This seems like the correct take. Market is simply maturing. Cheap foreign alternatives are more competitive in hardware markets when the technology behind the components are ubiquitous (see cars)

Apple's ecosystem might make its position more sticky though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,229
Same as in the Apple thread - smartphones/tablets/wearables have peaked in feature sets.

The only thing left to improve upon is battery life and longevity, which doesn't sell more phones long-term.

All the focus in recent years has been on different ways to unlock devices (face/iris/fingerprint/etc...) but that's not giving you any new features to USE on your devices.

Apple/Samsung/etc... need to find new things to DO with your devices. Not just new ways to unlock them.

Counter point: They need to figure out better ways to leverage their services. Apple is probably the best positioned here to make this transition (as evident by the AirPlay news the other day).
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,165
Toronto
Samsung and Apple are both going to lose marketshare because the smartphone market is becoming a value market. Innovation will be incremental, and the primary features customers will select are lower cost and reliability.
That's why Apple is positioning itself in the phone market like BMW is in the car market. A premium product at a premium price for those who can afford it. The Chinese brands are going to eat everyone's lunch on the lower tier.
 

Laserdisk

Banned
May 11, 2018
8,942
UK
With what they have at CES and the S10 being the change that people wanted from the s9 I think they will be fine
 

Razgreez

Banned
Apr 13, 2018
366
I was referring to other goods such as TVs

Same situation there as well. Samsung have never been a "premium focused company" and have, arguably, had more TV sales in the mid to lower segments. The main reason why people have been able to "afford" their premium flagship phones has been due to 24 month contracts which significantly soften the blow. The blow is just becoming too big to adequately soften at the top.

The biggest issue facing all technology producers is market saturation. The mythical "innovation" people are clamoring for does not exist. Tech producers need to, and are beginning to, market and sell value added services in order to maintain revenue growth. The services you're using are/should be more important than the device through which you are accessing them however, the make of the device still remains relevant as it is your gateway to the services and a way, for the producer, to access/mine your data.
 

Falchion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,947
Boise
It must be hard for these companies though. You want to build phones that last longer and provide more years of software support but at the same time sell more phones. Samsung probably counting on folding phones to push people to buy. I think most don't give a shit about minor camera / screen res. ugprades for the price anymore. From any manufacturer.

Yep, need bigger innovations to get people buying now.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
I work in Phones and here is my opinion on the subject.

Price: People are on programs where they are paying off a phone over 24-30 months. Carriers are getting people on plans where the customer gets a discount on phones over the 24-30 months. So for example you go in to buy a phone and they tell you it's going to be FREE/reduced, the bill shows a charge for a $25 equipment installment and then somewhere else on the bill is a promo credit for $25. If you cancel or get a diffrent phone early that doesn't have a promo you lose the credit. It really comes to price and what the customer want's to pay monthly.

Excitement: On the Samsung side the jump from a S8 to a S9 was not drastic, a lot of people seen that they could save money buying the old phone or keeping what they have. I think phone fatigue has set in with most customers as it seems a slight processor bump and a slight camera upgrade is what is shown every year. Until something mind blowing (foldable?) comes out I don't think you will see excitement like years past.

This is very true. Something phone makers need to understand is that phone carriers want everybody on a 2 year contract or more, and thus they help reducing the price of a phone which is a good option. And that practice, along with phone makers like Huawei, LG, Alcatel, Oneplueone, and other making cheap but good spec'd phones, is a bad combination for Samsung and Apple.