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Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
y'all sure suddenly give a lot of shits about grammar huh

Yeah, it's a bit frustrating to see someone open up about who they are and what they prefer, and people trying to tell them that they're wrong or making things difficult by using a pronoun that has been used for singular people for an incredibly long time.
 

TheAbsolution

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,389
Atlanta, GA
I am on the same boat. It can get very confusing with singulars and plurals. Of course, I have no issue with respecting that decision but given the myriad words that get added to the english oxford dictionary year after year, it feels like that they could at least add specific pronouns for gender neutral folks.
My friend, people tried introducing neo pronouns like a Xim/Xir and the like. Hasn't taken off really and the general population seems to have dismissed those pronouns as viable among everyone. So that leaves They/Them as the generally understood pronouns. If that isn't an option, what else is left?
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
I'm certain youve used "they" in the singular form countless times in your life. It works in the singular, you just arent used to using it consciously.

Exactly. Many people use they to refer to a singular person quite often and not just for non-binary people.

It's such a weird argument to get hung up on the grammar. And as others have said, when new pronouns are introduced, people don't want to use them or make a huge stink about them.

I wish them the best.
 

Doc Holliday

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,806
More power to Sam! We do need a better pronoun imo. It's a bit confusing in a business setting. It can lead to awkward conversations situations like thinking a group of people are working on something versus one person. Not sure what the answer is, and not up to me so.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
My friend, people tried introducing neo pronouns like a Xim/Xir and the like. Hasn't taken off really and the general population seems to have dismissed those pronouns as viable among everyone. So that leaves They/Them as the generally understood pronouns. If that isn't an opinion, what else is left?

Xir/Xim sounded good tbh. They/them feels kind of them folks getting scraps because "traditional" people got bent out of shape. Language shapes perception- for better or worse.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
As a bi guy, I get people who don't feel like they don't fit the agressively heteronormative mold we were brought up in, and the anguish that it can cause.

I am glad for them, seeing Sonicfox also come out as non-binary, and how they were moved by the acceptance, was really beautiful as well!
 

Kangi

Profile Styler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,948
Cis straight dude voice: "Singular 'they' doesn't exist in English!"

Also cis straight dudes: "'<insert slur here> means whatever I want it to! Language evolves!"
 

Deleted member 22901

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
240
Going to post this again, this time with quotes. Feel free to point anyone who still insists on another word instead of they...



There is 600 years of history of They being used as both singular and plural, with it being only plural being a much more modern construct. People tried to create new gender-neutral pronouns and everyone at large took offense. So, if no one wants to use a new set of pronouns, but doesn't want the non-binary crew to use "they/them"... what's left? Oh yeah, being pidgeon holed back into their "proper" pronouns... *sigh*
thank you for this post.

it's honestly kinda infuriating that people are trying to tell non-binary people to stop using they/them and come up with something new when cis people give people who use neo-pronouns shit too. we can't win. anything outside of he/him and she/her is never going to be good enough for cis binary folks who have never once needed to confront their own conceptions of gender.

using pronouns that are new to you really isn't as hard as some people make it out to be, it's pretty easy to adapt when someone informs you what their pronouns are. just be respectful to people and stop worrying so much about the rules of language or whatever. all of it is made up anyway.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,507
Earth
More power to Sam! We do need a better pronoun imo. It's a bit confusing in a business setting. It can lead to awkward conversations situations like thinking a group of people are working on something versus one person. Not sure what the answer is, and not up to me so.

In a business setting they would probably just use their names.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
They*, but yeah, I am sure they did. Not that that's something to complain about, just thought they'd already come out.
So I saw this mentioned a couple times, so I looked it up.

"I'm so excited and privileged to be surrounded by people that support me in this decision," Smith continued, "but I've been very nervous about announcing this because I care too much about what people think but fuck it!"

When they previously came out as nonbinary, Smith said they would keep he/him pronouns. Their thoughts and feelings on the matter have since evolved.
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,890
What? Like a lot of the time you can't even tell. If I see a turtle, groundhog, or young deer in the yard it's definitely getting called "it". An animal literally can not care about that.
I'm not saying it's bad for every animal, but I don't like calling my pets "it" for example. You can call any sexed animal "he" or "she" without seeming weird, but calling most inanimate objects "he" or "she" other than ones we anthropomorphize like ships and cars would be pretty strange. I would prefer if there were a gender neutral pronoun that we could use for any animal.
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,890
Going to post this again, this time with quotes. Feel free to point anyone who still insists on another word instead of they...



There is 600 years of history of They being used as both singular and plural, with it being only plural being a much more modern construct. People tried to create new gender-neutral pronouns and everyone at large took offense. So, if no one wants to use a new set of pronouns, but doesn't want the non-binary crew to use "they/them"... what's left? Oh yeah, being pidgeon holed back into their "proper" pronouns... *sigh*
Thank you for this. I still hate the ambiguity of it, but it's just one of many ambiguous parts of grammar. I guess I had the "don't use they/them" for singular pronouns ingrained into me too much in school. Also, my issues were NOT with people using they/them. Instead, I'm more annoyed by the language restrictions. I fully support people using any pronouns they choose.
 

hurroocane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,866
Germany
Well I'm not exactly surprised I remember reading about an interview where they said "I feel equal parts man and woman" or something like that

It feels like non binaries are getting a big push into the mainstream
 

echoshifting

very salt heavy
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,695
The Negative Zone
Going to post this again, this time with quotes. Feel free to point anyone who still insists on another word instead of they...



There is 600 years of history of They being used as both singular and plural, with it being only plural being a much more modern construct. People tried to create new gender-neutral pronouns and everyone at large took offense. So, if no one wants to use a new set of pronouns, but doesn't want the non-binary crew to use "they/them"... what's left? Oh yeah, being pidgeon holed back into their "proper" pronouns... *sigh*

This article should just be posted immediately in all of these threads.

Good for Sam.
 

rhandino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,609
8LQXC9f.png
 

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
It's this mindset that make people care less and less about people wanting support in this situation.

Of course, it's only fair to call out underprivileged minorities for not taking the time out of their lives to explain just how shitty their situation is to a dude who couldn't even be assed to do a Google search.
 

SaintBowWow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,082
not to sound offensive but i dont get it

My general understanding of it is that non-binary rejects having an identity mapped to either male or female. It helps to think about it in comparison to trans. Trans people are born with a body that does not map to their identity, such as a female born with a male's body. When that female identifies as trans, she's still saying that her identity maps to one of the two choices for gender (male and female), just that she identifies as a different gender than her biological sex. Non-binary instead says that they don't identify wholly with either of the binary genders and therefore refuse to identify as either.

I'm no expert on this stuff though so if any of this is incorrect I'm all ears.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,694
I'm always fascinated by people that identify as non-binary. The thought of not feeling like any particular gender is alien to me. What is it that they don't identify with regarding either gender? Is it societal norms?

Either way, I respect it and support it; I just want to understand it better.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
I'm not saying it's bad for every animal, but I don't like calling my pets "it" for example. You can call any sexed animal "he" or "she" without seeming weird, but calling most inanimate objects "he" or "she" other than ones we anthropomorphize like ships and cars would be pretty strange. I would prefer if there were a gender neutral pronoun that we could use for any animal.
I feel like I hear some new thing that makes me scratch my head everyday on this board. I guess I can understand it being an issue to someone for an animal they own like a pet, or cattle, or like a famous zoo attraction. But to the extent that you don't think "it" can be used for sentient creatures in general? That's wild.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
It's this mindset that make people care less and less about people wanting support in this situation.
It's this kind of entitled mindset that turns threads like these into perverbial blood baths. If you want to know something, at least have the decency to ask nicely if you aren't going to take a few seconds to look it up yourself. "not to sound offensive, but I don't get it." is just an attempt to derail or start a fight.

But by all means, continue to think that you're the victim.
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Their James Bond track for Spectre still sucked.

Congrats otherwise I guess.
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,659
Good for them being non-binary is something that I don't have a lot of experience with but I respect other people's decisions. I would be lying if I said the "they/them" pronouns aren't difficult for me to remember, but that's part of change. I want everyone to feel comfortable being who they are and if it takes a little effort on my part to make someone feel included and welcomed it's well worth it.
 

How About No

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
The Great Dairy State
Jesus christ this "we need something other than they" arguing from cis people is irritating and tired as shit. Sto fucking telling people how they should refer to themselves if they're comfortable with it

On topic, I'm not familiar with Sam Smith but I'm happy for them :D
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
I'm always fascinated by people that identify as non-binary. The thought of not feeling like any particular gender is alien to me. What is it that they don't identify with regarding either gender? Is it societal norms?
I can almost relate, in that I don't feel particularly attached to any gender identity and probably would not mind, for example, if some freak cosmic occurrence caused me to wake up in a woman's body one day. I'd feel that nothing of significance about my identity had changed.

That seems like the opposite of what this is, though, where they're rejecting both identities instead of accepting either.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
It's this mindset that make people care less and less about people wanting support in this situation.
You know what... I'm going to address this a bit more in depth. You are not an ally. You are not a hero. You are not a savior. You are absolutely 100% part of the problem. You THINK you're one or all of those previous things because you like to tell yourself that you are. You WANT to be those things, but you don't want to have to prove it or stand openly for something. You want to be able to jump into a conversation and go "Oh yeah I totally support trans rights!" but you don't want any even slight inconveniences that would come with any of those tags.

Well, this is the real world and this is not how it works. If you want to seem supportive of the LGBTQ+ community, you have to actually know what it means. You don't need to know everything, but you need to be at least willing to put in some effort to educate yourself or others. If you don't know where to begin it's 100% fine to ask (again, neither the original person being quoted, or you did ask. You said "The polite thing to do would be to explain it", implying that if a trans person doesn't feel the need to play someone's personal tutor, they are the ones that are rude).

No one owes you an explaination on their personal life choices.

So get out of here with this "It's this mindset that make people care less and less about people wanting support in this situation." because you never cared to begin with. At best you pretend to care, but you quickly dropped it and shown your ass and we're all better for it. Knowing someone is a fraud makes it much easier to not waste time on you in the future.