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mario_O

mario_O

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,755
As someone who knows very well what Sam Harris has at least professed, people are definitely being hyperbolic calling him a nazi. We can infer a lot from his stated positions and the people he interviews and socializes with, and one of those inferences is not "he wants a white ethnostate with an authoritarian militaristic government".

Well, he honestly believes Islam is pure evil and that american exceptionalism is actually a real thing. I'm sure he thinks that all the hundreds of thousands that have died in the middle east, is all for 'the greater good' or some shit.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Well, he honestly believes Islam is pure evil and that american exceptionalism is actually a real thing. I'm sure he thinks that all the hundreds of thousands that have died in the middle east, is all for 'the greater good' or some shit.

He's got fucked up views on Islam and colonialism (among other things, like black intelligence), that's for sure. We should use the entire scale of fuckeduppedness instead of giving everyone with fucked up views a 10 out of 10 "pure nazi".
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,274
What does this have to do with anything

The right and friends of the right think freedom of speech has something to do with commercial companies. On paper their ideology tells them that the market decides what should and should not be censored. In apparently a not very comical manner, I accused them of being far left because they fail to understand that by their own political positions they are owed nothing regarding free speech by anyone that is not a government body.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,206
Fascism and Nazi ideology never died. All they did is change their PR strategy. End goal is the same.

Charlottesville was a massive PR disaster for them as they showed their true colors and killed someone.

Right now you've got immigrant children getting numbers on their forearms and there was a famous argument here some time ago whether those were "concentration camps" or not.

As a species we have the capacity to learn from our history and we should.
We do learn. We learn to be more efficient in our awfulness.
 

shem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,955
df8.gif

Was hoping for this gif, am not disappointed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,206
As someone who knows very well what Sam Harris has at least professed, people are definitely being hyperbolic calling him a nazi. We can infer a lot from his stated positions and the people he interviews and socializes with, and one of those inferences is not "he wants a white ethnostate with an authoritarian militaristic government".
I agree with this only because calling someone like Sam a nazi becomes an endless back and forth that goes nowhere and derails the whole conversation.

He is definitely an enabler though. There's only so many times a person can use the excuse "I don't know x that well but I'll defend them until I die" which he's done with Milo when he was facing mass protests and bans, and with Charles Murray during the Ezra Klein debate.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I agree with this only because calling someone like Sam a nazi becomes an endless back and forth that goes nowhere and derails the whole conversation.

He is definitely an enabler though. There's only so many times a person can use the excuse "I don't know x that well but I'll defend them until I die" which he's done with Milo when he was facing mass protests and bans, and with Charles Murray during the Ezra Klein debate.

He certainly enables these people with actual dangerous ideologies and actual affecting reach, he's just morally feckless and substitutes a principled "intellectual" stand for actual well thought out and reasoned ethics.
 

Falcon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
151
I really truly understand we should deplatform and isolate people with dangerous ideas but I just wanna throw my hat into the ring too of not jumping to call someone like Harris a nazi immediately. It does seem like he's skimmed the line but I generally think you should argue with people in good faith and persuade them why his ideas are dangerous and wrong. I just feel like I see people genuinely trying to have a discussion, albeit uninformed or wrong, and calling them a troll just shuts that person down and invalidates them immediately. I understand it has been fucking exhausting explaining all the reasons why these fringe alt-righters are dangerous but I think we have to keep taking it seriously.

People like Peterson and Steven Crowder try to employ every strategy in the book by wrapping their evil shit in with other more common sense or logical reasoning. Or arguing with people who are no match for them, or being disingenuous in arguments. Its really not that hard for me to understand that people might initially be persuaded by it and although it's become far easier to recognize once you can see through it all, there are still tons of people being exposed to it for the first time every day. Dismissing them as trolls and "gateway" intellectuals like Harris as nazi's WILL do damage unless you back it up by explaining why the things they say and do are wrong, uninformed or evil. That's why I love someone like Contrapoints or even a Destiny, facing their rhetoric head-on and exposing them in a way that makes complete sense. Refer people to sources like this if you get tired of convincing people. I'll just leave this here because I love watching this shit:
 

Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
5,217
Last I checked Patreon isn't the government, so these dipshits whining on about freedom of speech is just delicious to me. You don't have a right for private entities to give you platform.
Came here. Especially with conservatives, it's baffling because they are always going on about rights for businesses. (Like being able to deny service to LGBT+ people.) This is what you guys fight for, dudes.
 

moujouflou

Banned
Dec 17, 2018
1
User Banned (permanent): Defending Bigotry, Trolling, Account in Junior Phase
Are WE really the perfect ones and ALL others are (i) mean (ii.a) morons or (ii.b) carefully strategizing hideous racist smartasses!?
I listen to Sam Harris very regularly and I'm not liking all he says in all detail, but nearly all mentions of him here are not close to doing him, and esp. his intentions, justice.
Maybe you are the lucky one that gets EVERYTHING exactly right and he gets it ALL wrong, congrats to you, I hope you are enjoying yourself in your pride, you actually deserve it!
But to claim he has such bad will and is deep down so badly racist as you seem to enjoy implying here, shows a bit a sad unwillingness to engage with the thoughts of people with actually truly quite similar aims of contributing to a globally good world. I can understand some of Harris' claims better after seeing many of the posts here.
 

HiredN00bs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
826
Laurel, MD
I really truly understand we should deplatform and isolate people with dangerous ideas but I just wanna throw my hat into the ring too of not jumping to call someone like Harris a nazi immediately. It does seem like he's skimmed the line but I generally think you should argue with people in good faith and persuade them why his ideas are dangerous and wrong. I just feel like I see people genuinely trying to have a discussion, albeit uninformed or wrong, and calling them a troll just shuts that person down and invalidates them immediately. I understand it has been fucking exhausting explaining all the reasons why these fringe alt-righters are dangerous but I think we have to keep taking it seriously.

People like Peterson and Steven Crowder try to employ every strategy in the book by wrapping their evil shit in with other more common sense or logical reasoning. Or arguing with people who are no match for them, or being disingenuous in arguments. Its really not that hard for me to understand that people might initially be persuaded by it and although it's become far easier to recognize once you can see through it all, there are still tons of people being exposed to it for the first time every day. Dismissing them as trolls and "gateway" intellectuals like Harris as nazi's WILL do damage unless you back it up by explaining why the things they say and do are wrong, uninformed or evil. That's why I love someone like Contrapoints or even a Destiny, facing their rhetoric head-on and exposing them in a way that makes complete sense. Refer people to sources like this if you get tired of convincing people. I'll just leave this here because I love watching this shit:

Well said. If you think well-evidenced and rational arguments don't change some people's minds, you're flat out wrong. There is room for shaming, and for normalizing zero tolerance for intolerance, but these are all tools in the toolbox. Trying to fix everything with a hammer when every vote counts is a less than ideal strategy. Harris appeals to people with rational argument, which can give the illusion of being airtight. False, skewed, or otherwise misrepresented premises have to be challenged with evidence to combat his wrong ideas. People are right to criticize his platforming of toxic figures, but you don't beat Harris with vilification, you beat him with better evidence. Natalie's videos do just that, and I'm not sure anyone is doing what she's doing as well as she is, even without the theatricality. I'd love is someone linked me to some contenders, though.
 

Drek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
He's got fucked up views on Islam and colonialism (among other things, like black intelligence), that's for sure. We should use the entire scale of fuckeduppedness instead of giving everyone with fucked up views a 10 out of 10 "pure nazi".
I like this concept.

1 out of 10 - dubious side-eye.
to
10 out of 10 - you're a goddamn nazi.

On that scale I'd put Harris in the 4-5 range. Well into the known to be shitty range but hasn't blossomed into the other half of the spectrum which I think takes viewing all non-conformity with their self identified "ideal" (as opposed to some non conformity being tolerated) as the enemy. The 7-8 range is when they start paying veiled lip service to the ideas of manifest destiny/white cultural priority. 9-10 is the full on ethnic cleansing/white ethnostate bullshit.

You make it past a 1-2 you're already clearly shit, but with this method we can grade the purity of shit.
 

Pickleslips

Member
Jan 25, 2018
464
For what its worth, as a lapsed Harris fan (liked him before I grew up), I will say that Harris' political viewpoints are a lot closer to Gaf/Era than many of you realize- he was an ardent Hillary supporter and Obama before her, and very anti-Bernie.
GAF is basically a white nationalist misogyny site now, don't lump that in with Era.
 

TwntyOneTwlv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,595
Ohio
This is the second time Sam Harris has quit Patreon. The first time was in solidarity with Laura Southern when she was banned for playing pirate with refugee boats in the Mediterranean. This time it's in solidarity with Sargon of "I wouldn't even rape you" Akkad and Milo.

Sam Harris is a clown.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,206
Via Business Insider:
Neither Peterson nor Harris immediately responded when asked for their response on the transcript. Peterson and his partner Dave Rubin referenced their knowledge of the general context surrounding Benjamin's ban in their video announcing their new platform, but did not address the aspect of hate speech directly. Harris simply said he did not "share the politics of the banned members," but did not address the aspect of hate speech.
They're mad without knowing the whole context. How ironic. True modern intellectuals.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
Owen Ellickson on Twitter was saying just how loaded Harris is. His mother being a proficient writer in Hollywood. I had no idea he came from (major) money.The fuck did he need a Patreon for?
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,206
Owen Ellickson on Twitter was saying just how loaded Harris is. His mother being a proficient writer in Hollywood. I had no idea he came from (major) money.The fuck did he need a Patreon for?
He doesn't. He's a grifter who used the post 9-11 anti-Muslim hysteria and new atheist movement for his own personal gain.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Sargon, and a bunch of other bigots.

Also Sam Harris is a joke. If you still think he's worth listening to after the Ezra Klein debacle, you need to take a hard look in the mirror.
I already considered him a joke but I had no idea what you were referring to, lol. I also like how just googling sam harris ezra klein leads you to a bunch of youtube videos talking about how he destroyed ezra klein based on his lies
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,631
As someone who knows very well what Sam Harris has at least professed, people are definitely being hyperbolic calling him a nazi. We can infer a lot from his stated positions and the people he interviews and socializes with, and one of those inferences is not "he wants a white ethnostate with an authoritarian militaristic government".
You're right in that he hasn't claimed to be a Nazi. However, he has encouraged others to be.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Not a nazi just promotes false science that white people are intrinsically superior to minorities. Wait a minute.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,206
Not a Nazi you just see Marxists as one of the biggest threats to the civilised world. Wait a minute.
He actually feels college students are a greater threat to free speech because they protested the likes of Been Shapiro and Milo, than Trump and the GOP.

Otherwise he wouldn't keep going on about SJWs and aligned himself with people like Peterson and Sargon.
 
Last edited:

Razgriz417

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,105
So how soon until we hear that pay pal and other financial institutions pull away from hatreon or whatever
 

TheWordyGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,623
Well, he honestly believes Islam is pure evil and that american exceptionalism is actually a real thing. I'm sure he thinks that all the hundreds of thousands that have died in the middle east, is all for 'the greater good' or some shit.

He has stated multiple times.... as clearly as anyone possibly could... that he himself is not the best proponent of radical Islam... that the people best suited to do this are Islamic people themselves.

How on earth anyone can state that Harris is a Nazi is beyond me. I've read every one of his books, and there's nothing that even remotely suggests he's a Nazi.

Could you please provide me with a quotation from one of his books to prove your point. I have every one of his books here on my shelf and I haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about?
 

TheWordyGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,623
Not a nazi just promotes false science that white people are intrinsically superior to minorities. Wait a minute.

This is patantly false.

I'm about to propose marriage to a black lady, so I can assure you I would never support a person who believes that 'white people are intrinsically superior to minorities'. Harris has never supported such a gross claim - ever.

The level of confusion in this thread is utterly shocking.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,537
This is patantly false.

I'm about to propose marriage to a black lady, so I can assure you I would never support a person who believes that 'white people are intrinsically superior to minorities'. Harris has never supported such a gross claim - ever.

The level of confusion in this thread is utterly shocking.

Just wanted to appreciate the fact we officially evolved from "I know black people so I can't be racist" to "I know black people so people I like can't be racist".

Also maybe try to red the Bell Curve again, you know, the book partially about how black people have a genetically lower IQ than white people do and that's just how nature is.
 

Enzom21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,989
This is patantly false.

I'm about to propose marriage to a black lady, so I can assure you I would never support a person who believes that 'white people are intrinsically superior to minorities'. Harris has never supported such a gross claim - ever.

The level of confusion in this thread is utterly shocking.
Wait do you think that because you're in a relationship with a black woman that you couldn't possibly be a racist? Hey do me a favor and tell her your little theory and then report back to us what her reaction was.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
This is patantly false.

I'm about to propose marriage to a black lady, so I can assure you I would never support a person who believes that 'white people are intrinsically superior to minorities'. Harris has never supported such a gross claim - ever.

The level of confusion in this thread is utterly shocking.
Yikes

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...ace-iq-forbidden-knowledge-podcast-bell-curve


He had the Bell Curve author on his show and stated this

Harris sought to rehabilitate the conversation over race and IQ as well as open a larger debate about what can and cannot be said in today's America. Here is Harris framing the discussion:

People don't want to hear that a person's intelligence is in large measure due to his or her genes and there seems to be very little we can do environmentally to increase a person's intelligence even in childhood. It's not that the environment doesn't matter, but genes appear to be 50 to 80 percent of the story. People don't want to hear this. And they certainly don't want to hear that average IQ differs across races and ethnic groups.

Now, for better or worse, these are all facts. In fact, there is almost nothing in psychological science for which there is more evidence than these claims. About IQ, about the validity of testing for it, about its importance in the real world, about its heritability, and about its differential expression in different populations.

Again, this is what a dispassionate look at [what] decades of research suggest. Unfortunately, the controversy over The Bell Curve did not result from legitimate, good-faith criticisms of its major claims. Rather, it was the product of a politically correct moral panic that totally engulfed Murray's career and has yet to release him.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
Not a nazi just promotes false science that white people are intrinsically superior to minorities. Wait a minute.

Thats not quite right either. He specifically says he does NOT think minorities are inferior, he just thinks he has a very specific point about population wide mean IQ.

Its still stupid, because he dismisses years of repression, lower income and all the side effects like worse nutrition, education, etc by saying people have been basically equal since the 70's. Not the mention the problems with measuring IQ in general.

I actually thought Ezra's discussion with him was not great, because it just focused on if he said people were inferior, when the point is that he makes dumb assumptions.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,086
He's got fucked up views on Islam and colonialism (among other things, like black intelligence), that's for sure. We should use the entire scale of fuckeduppedness instead of giving everyone with fucked up views a 10 out of 10 "pure nazi".
"Guys, he's just a little racist is all. Let's not get crazy here."
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
"Guys, he's just a little racist is all. Let's not get crazy here."

"I like to make up quotes that have no intellectual honesty so that the person I'm 'quoting' has no recourse but to defend themselves against an entirely made up thing that they never said"

Oh wait, I did it wrong because that's exactly what you do.

Sorry you guys, but there is a difference between racist and Nazi, to suggest otherwise make you look very stupid.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Thats not quite right either. He specifically says he does NOT think minorities are inferior, he just thinks he has a very specific point about population wide mean IQ.

Its still stupid, because he dismisses years of repression, lower income and all the side effects like worse nutrition, education, etc by saying people have been basically equal since the 70's. Not the mention the problems with measuring IQ in general.

I actually thought Ezra's discussion with him was not great, because it just focused on if he said people were inferior, when the point is that he makes dumb assumptions.
He can frame it however he wants, that's what he means and he uses racist nonscience to back it up.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
He can frame it however he wants, that's what he means and he uses racist nonscience to back it up.

Sam Harris is a broken man intellectually, you can put him in the Michael Schemer and Richard Dawkins camp where they've attached their identities to this flawed view of rational skepticism and rode it all the way into abject anti-science racism.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,086
"I like to make up quotes that have no intellectual honesty so that the person I'm 'quoting' has no recourse but to defend themselves against an entirely made up thing that they never said"

Oh wait, I did it wrong because that's exactly what you do.

Sorry you guys, but there is a difference between racist and Nazi, to suggest otherwise make you look very stupid.
"How dare you accuse me of telling people to go easier in their phrasing because he's just racist. Also, he's just racist, you're stupid if you don't go easier in your phrasing."
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Cool. You still can't have it both ways.

Oh, do you actually want to have a discussion now or would you still rather mockingly make up quotes that imply I said things that I did not say?

If you're confused about what I'm trying to say, then you could always ask for an explanation rather than this hostile act.

What do you mean by I can't have it both ways? What both ways am I attempting to have?
 

cebri

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
221
User Banned (1 Week): Consistent history of trolling and inflammatory drive-by posting
The lack of understanding of what Sam Harris says and the level of manipulation of some Era users never ceases to amaze me. This is truly the ERA of fake news.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
Sam Harris is a broken man intellectually, you can put him in the Michael Schemer and Richard Dawkins camp where they've attached their identities to this flawed view of rational skepticism and rode it all the way into abject anti-science racism.

Dawkins too? I've seen some shit from him, I don't remeber any actual racism.

I have to say its really fucking heartbreaking to see someone I used to admire go down this path. Mainly because his thinking is just so incredibly fucking stupid. I don't see how you can lay out a rational argument in one domain and then completely fall on your face in another. At the very least he should be aware of the limits of his knowledge.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
The lack of understanding of what Sam Harris says and the level of manipulation of some Era users never ceases to amaze me. This is truly the ERA of fake news.
Pls respond to my post I made the last time someone said something like this.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Dawkins too? I've seen some shit from him, I don't remeber any actual racism.

I have to say its really fucking heartbreaking to see someone I used to admire go down this path. Mainly because his thinking is just so incredibly fucking stupid. I don't see how you can lay out a rational argument in one domain and then completely fall on your face in another. At the very least he should be aware of the limits of his knowledge.

It's like people who tried to use Newton's laws to explain complex celestial motion, they're using an inherently flawed line of thinking and following it to what they think is the logical conclusion. Then when someone challenges their conclusion or their logic they simply claim to be utilizing the best rational tools we have available, which isn't true.