What I'm saying is there's no reason to defend anything Sakurai does at this point because it's past the point of coincidence or ignorance.
Your argument I would understand if this was his first slipup, be he's far past that lol
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Sakurai's recent Pic of the Day for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has anti-Black implications relating to use of water cannons on civil rights activists.
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Your argument I would understand if this was his first slipup, be he's far past that lol
I get you. Benefit of the doubt should be about the specific situation as opposed to a blanket, IMO. As an example, if you said a GOP Senator said "black people are evil and we shouldn't have them alive," I would need to see the evidence, because that's not their brand of racism.
For me, it's the same here - there are some things I would not give benefit of the doubt on, based on what we've seen in other parts of the game. This doesn't necessarily fit with those, so I'm more willing to say it seems like a stretch.
I don't feel like pulling up the images, but here is a link to it. There was a thread here for it and all
Some Smash Bros. Ultimate players are pointing out what they believe to be racist stereotypes in Spirits mode
From the GoNintendo Archivesgonintendo.com
Along with the fact that there is yet to be a single black Smash fighter, I don't have any sympathy for that man or anyone who wants to blindly defend a person they don't personally know
I appreciate the link.
I mean, I think Sakurai is ignorant to some degree, just not consciously malicious. I do agree that certain members' reactions to Min Min were exceptionally bad, though.
I like Doc Louis and he's already been playable in Punch-Out!! before with relative respect given to him, so yes, I would personally like to see him in Smash.
Those ping pong eyes probably need to be changed, though.
No one outside the US associates water hosing with the civil rights movement. Here in Europe for example water hosing is associated with a weapon against protests in general. I'm not sure this image is a good look but it isn't that.
The black stereotype in the spirits battle thing is the real killer and that's where the focus should be on. How has Nintendo not removed that one?
The black stereotype in the spirits battle thing is the real killer and that's where the focus should be on. How has Nintendo not removed that one?
Not a friend of yours so don't try that.
No it's not ok because you ain't adding you are saying you are ignorant of the situation and then saying it ain't a problem. Because. You. Don't. See. It.
So yes, just sit this one out and listen to the others if you are so unaware of the situation.
Dont really see the point of using a character added 3 games and 19 years ago, I mean at the end of the day they were still "Protagonists" and Retro which was what they were looking for
And they can look for a black character if they so choose. They just choose not to. Nothing is constraining them but their own choices.
You know, I can't wait until we get another director for Smash. At this point I have given up hope that they will improve as long as he is on the helm.
Not that it is a guarantee that it will improve but you know what I mean.
Not that it is a guarantee that it will improve but you know what I mean.
What thread do you mean?
I didn't even know Birmingham campaign. I don't expect a Japanese born and raised man to know much about that type of stuff.
You could look into other implications but the Birmingham stuff is extremely unlikely.
You could look into other implications but the Birmingham stuff is extremely unlikely.
I mean this is probalby going to be Sakurai's last Smash Game sooo
User Banned (2 Weeks): Trolling Over Multiple Posts in a Sensitive Thread
ok so don't call people clown, jeez
This is where I'm at. I see these pictures all the time from Sakurai's account, and he uses all kinds of random trophies, side characters, and frame-specific timing to get wacky compositions.
On one hand, in so many threads, I see people saying things like "Arrogant US era expecting the rest of the world to default to its currency / be familiar with its pop culture references," and yet, we're expecting native Japanese to be familiar with specific instances of US history that often times isn't even taught in schools due to its damning implications and the shadow it casts on white leadership and white citizens.
I'm not saying it's not important, but I do think we can probably offer Sakurai the benefit of the doubt, here.
I didn't comb through all 8 pages but I did see someone mention that this wasn't the first time he's posted something that could be seen as racist. I'm not a Sakurai stan or anything so if that's true, I'm willing to give him all of my side-eye. This instance though, to me, does actually seem like a stretch. If the OP didn't include that photo from Birmingham I never would have made the connection.
Nintendo could have solved the representation problem in Smash any number of ways. They deliberately choose not to. Watching users twist themselves up to defend this here is really something.
This topic wouldn't even exist if Nintendo wasn't so shit on racial issues. That's at the core of it all.
I think we should have more representation. ANd I agree they don't prioritize it, I have literally said as much. I'm saying that it's clear Smash prioritizes based on star power first and foremost and doesn't add supporting characters from any series unless they're super iconic. And that the better fix here is to encourage Nintendo (and the industry at large) to make more games starring minorities and underrepresented groups. Rather than starting at Smash it'd make more sense to address the root cause
I'd say he's more likely to have come across the imagery from Birmingham, rather than be aware of the specifics behind it. The pictures aren't exactly rare, and you don't have to know anything about the specific incedent photographed to know what's going on in the photo. His actual historical knowledge is pretty irrelevant.
This is me here. I live and breathe American culture daily, been speaking English since I can remember, and live a couple of hours from the US border, a country which I've visited countless times, and this is the first time I've ever heard about this or seen that picture. I highly doubt that Sakurai did that intentionally but it is a very very VERY unfortunate coincidence. Now I do know what the Birmingham campaign was thanks to this thread but, for worse or worst, I don't think it's very well known outside of the US like other similar incidents.
I mean they aren't rare in the US, I'm not so convinced the imagery is common at all in Japan
The OP makes it clear that it may not be intentional, which I believe is the case. But the implication is there and it, within the context of other anti-Black content in Smash & other Sakurai works, is very concerning & is showing itself as a glaring blind spot for Sakurai.
There isn't an easy answer to this my guy, and I'm dreading the conversation with my little brother once I get back home but at the end of the day we gotta do what we gotta do.
You could "quit" smash, but in effect Sakurai already has your money, and getting a refund would mean little. I personally would continue to play smash, but basically mark Sakurai and not touch what ever else he has his hands on from this moment forward. Kinda like with JK and my old ass first edition of copy of Harry Potter 1 on my book case.
I can understand if your frustrations keep you from playing but in situations where the milk is already spilt I wouldn't stress over it but live and learn.
It's OK, It's my own fault really. I was just on some guy the other day about not saying the quiet part loud. I need to take my own advice.
I'm going to be honest and you probably are going to dislike me for it but, of those the only one I'm down with is Leroy. Forspokens' lead is cool don't get me wrong but I really want to wait until that game is out before I hold it up to be good as far as representation goes.
I played with Master Raven at home once and my sister was like wtf is she wearing and all I could do was shrug
Kinda like how I really want to see how Square handles the second half of Barret's story in FF7R2. Funny enough I distinctly remember getting serious heat for pointing out that Barrett was significantly better offerings than the big other big western blockbuster game that was around the same time TLOU2.
Who cares? It's still an imagine of a black man getting hosed by a white character.
Ignorance isn't an excuse for racism, be good if folk weren't so desperate to jump to that as some sort of defence in this thread. Or is simply cause Sakuria is a developer of a popular game? 🤔🤔🤔
Whether one is aware or not and whether one should have been aware is important for how we should respond to it.
In this case Sakurai has done nothing wrong as the image to me doesn't express anything that is even remotely close to racism as I don't have that kind of association in my head and have never heard of it up until now. And don't think this reflects it either.
If you do feel offended by the imagery you can ask him to take it down and it would be great of him if he did, even if it doesn't register as such to him. But I for example don't need anything to be done with the image.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Rationalizing the lack of Black representation
Regarding the comments about the lack of a black playable character - I think it's straight up just because race isn't something considered when deciding Smash characters. For the most part, Smash is all about representing the primary/most important characters of the franchises it features, and those franchises are generally the biggest ones in the Japanese gaming sphere, with the occasional retro Nintendo classic tossed in as a throwback.
So when they look to add an FF7 character, of course it's not going to be Barret, because Cloud and Sephiroth are head and shoulders above him as the most popular/important characters in that game. The same reason is why Splatoon's Marina wouldn't get the nod over the actual playable Inklings - the main/primary character, just about every time, is the one chosen.
The one exception, really, is Min Min, and she was such an oddity that we got an actual explanation from Sakurai himself. While they could have gone for Twintelle there, the creator of ARMS specifically asked for Min Min. Twintelle herself also unfortunately had the problem of not representing the actual main gimmick of ARMS well due to using her hair to fight, instead of, you know, her arms.
It's not like Sakurai sits down to make this series and goes "I must ensure there are no playable black characters", it's just that what he's looking for is the primary characters of longtime popular and important Japanese franchises - which pretty much ousts most black characters from the selection process. It's an unfortunate and painful fact of the industry that the amount of characters that fit the criteria Smash is targeting while also being black are pretty much nonexistent.
Comparisons to other franchises like Guilty Gear or Tekken don't really work, because those games are creating characters from scratch. Smash, with very few exceptions, only pulls from what's already there and what's already made itself an important part of the Japanese gaming landscape - an environment with pretty much no black characters that fit the bill Smash Bros. is aiming for.
So when they look to add an FF7 character, of course it's not going to be Barret, because Cloud and Sephiroth are head and shoulders above him as the most popular/important characters in that game. The same reason is why Splatoon's Marina wouldn't get the nod over the actual playable Inklings - the main/primary character, just about every time, is the one chosen.
The one exception, really, is Min Min, and she was such an oddity that we got an actual explanation from Sakurai himself. While they could have gone for Twintelle there, the creator of ARMS specifically asked for Min Min. Twintelle herself also unfortunately had the problem of not representing the actual main gimmick of ARMS well due to using her hair to fight, instead of, you know, her arms.
It's not like Sakurai sits down to make this series and goes "I must ensure there are no playable black characters", it's just that what he's looking for is the primary characters of longtime popular and important Japanese franchises - which pretty much ousts most black characters from the selection process. It's an unfortunate and painful fact of the industry that the amount of characters that fit the criteria Smash is targeting while also being black are pretty much nonexistent.
Comparisons to other franchises like Guilty Gear or Tekken don't really work, because those games are creating characters from scratch. Smash, with very few exceptions, only pulls from what's already there and what's already made itself an important part of the Japanese gaming landscape - an environment with pretty much no black characters that fit the bill Smash Bros. is aiming for.
Super Smash Bros should have a black character. I agree 100% that diversity and inclusion is important in all forms of media including gaming.
This picture being racist and a callback to the Birmingham campaign, is a HUGE stretch. Sakurai is Japanese, NOT American, and should not be expected to have the same cultural lens and understanding of American history when it comes to race and race relations in the United States. It's a goofy picture, nothing more, nothing less. The other Spirit battles have also been similarly debunked in those old threads, as there are other reasons they were selected instead of with racist intent. Of course, they could have been corrected in the American localization given that it certainly can be viewed as racist, so I think that is the fault of the American localization team that they didn't choose to change that.
Also, Smash is a huge game with a huge development team. Isn't it another HUGE leap to say that these specific obscure instances = Sakurai himself is a racist?
This picture being racist and a callback to the Birmingham campaign, is a HUGE stretch. Sakurai is Japanese, NOT American, and should not be expected to have the same cultural lens and understanding of American history when it comes to race and race relations in the United States. It's a goofy picture, nothing more, nothing less. The other Spirit battles have also been similarly debunked in those old threads, as there are other reasons they were selected instead of with racist intent. Of course, they could have been corrected in the American localization given that it certainly can be viewed as racist, so I think that is the fault of the American localization team that they didn't choose to change that.
Also, Smash is a huge game with a huge development team. Isn't it another HUGE leap to say that these specific obscure instances = Sakurai himself is a racist?
Which is the exact reason I mentioned getting cooked for pointing out the same exact thing with Barret, with another title with the same company no less.
Not disagreeing, just pointing out the irony
I don't see anything wrong with it seems like a reference to Mario sunshine to me.
Highly doubt he knows what the Birmingham campaign is. This is the first time I am hearing it, just read the wiki page and as a non American I can't relate really. I do see how it can be toxic for someone that lives in US. But considering Sakurai is Japanese, I doubt he knows this and don't expect him to
Now Sakurai being racist well that's still up for debate, cultural differences that lead stereotyping is big in many countries that's not US. So he may be a victim of that, then again he is making a game for a global
audience he should be more considerate in character selection. This I just think it's a sunshine reference and that's it
Highly doubt he knows what the Birmingham campaign is. This is the first time I am hearing it, just read the wiki page and as a non American I can't relate really. I do see how it can be toxic for someone that lives in US. But considering Sakurai is Japanese, I doubt he knows this and don't expect him to
Now Sakurai being racist well that's still up for debate, cultural differences that lead stereotyping is big in many countries that's not US. So he may be a victim of that, then again he is making a game for a global
audience he should be more considerate in character selection. This I just think it's a sunshine reference and that's it
Please explain to me how this spirit battle being racist has been "debunked." I'll wait.
Please explain to me how this spirit battle being racist has been "debunked." I'll wait.
Jesus. That's blatant as hell. Please tell me it was patched out.
Tomorrow's pic of the day: Simon and Richter throwing burning crosses at mans
ResetEra replies: "It's because he's a witch and they're monster hunters"
The base game Spirit battles were never changed with patches as far as I know.
And to whoever changed the thread title, thank you.
This is really bad, but I'd argue this one is probably because of DK being the final boss of Punch Out Wii and kind of playing the same role as Mr. Dream in the older punchout games in this case. It's a problem, but in this case I think the intent was almost certainly something else. I think the Dee Jay spirit example is way more sketchy if you wanted to choose onePlease explain to me how this spirit battle being racist has been "debunked." I'll wait.
now this is fucking racistPlease explain to me how this spirit battle being racist has been "debunked." I'll wait.
But you are. You put on them shoes, put on the nose, put on the makeup and walked into this thread and announced it yourself. You a clown.
The "black people=monkeys and apes" Spirits that keep popping up should make it clear that NOA doesn't care.
Isn't this specific one because Mr. Sandman and DK are final bosses in different Punch-Out! games?Please explain to me how this spirit battle being racist has been "debunked." I'll wait.
The Deejay Spirit battle is the one people are primarily hung up on (for justifiable reasons).
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