This is where I'm at. A Japanese developer going through the effort of recreating an event from Alabama 1963 seems far too so specific. Being racist and using Rodin as Shadow Mario on the Isle Delfino stage is super likely here.
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Sakurai's recent Pic of the Day for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has anti-Black implications relating to use of water cannons on civil rights activists.
- Thread starter Chief Malik
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At first, I really didn't think so. Like, something like that has to be unintentional, and it still might be. But, lol, using like, the one black character in the game to do this with? That sure is something.
Intentional or not, when these "coincidences" keep popping up in different places throughout the game, well, there's definitely a problem.
Intentional or not, when these "coincidences" keep popping up in different places throughout the game, well, there's definitely a problem.
I think Sakurai is trying to post pics that would be technically possible for any random player to take, I think using dev tools to pull out a model in a way that's impossible in normal gameplay would go against what he's trying to do with these pictures
Possible, but unlikely considering that Metal Mario would've been a much better candidate. And if it was, that comes with its own colorist implications.
that's not even Rodin's dodge animation, is it
pretty sure he's winding up for his stompy attack
Isnt that the point of the thread ? How does it get worse unless you think this thread exists if Bayonetta or another assist trophy dodging the hose water beam.
Exactly. At the very least it shows he's not bothered with these issues.
The Inkling boy and girl in Smash are from Splatoon 1 where the face Inkling was depicted with light skin while they have alts with darker skin tones. I say "light" because it's likely they were intended as Japanese cartoon characters as opposed to white as default. Splatoon 2 and 3 introduced face Inklings and Octolings with darker skin as well as Marina, a black Octoling.
I personally just see this as two characters avoiding a normal move Mario does in different comical ways. Rodin dodges rather expressively and Peach just kinda casually dodges to the side. If that makes me naive then whatever, but I don't think anyone is even being hit by the water and that's more the point.
No, there have definitely been pics of the day that go beyond what's normally possible.
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the imagery of black americans being hit with fire hoses was seen worldwide at the time. Even if it can be excused as mere ignorance, even if you can look past the past issues with black character spirits, it's just a bad look.
They're alts. There is no playable black by default character in Smash Bros.
I think most Japanese people don't really understand these issues at all and he's probably not actually recieving the feedback from the west. Honestly I think short of an interviewer asking about it it'd be hard for the info to get to him since based on interviews I don't think he likes listening to fan feedback because most of what he recieves is full of toxic shit from salty fans
Likely this is just casual racism if that, not a callout to specific American events which he likely doesn't know about. Not that it's any better, but it's likely closer to the Japanese racist ideas that black people are dirty or something.
There's a black teacher living in Japan on TikTok demonstrating how awfully casual it all is, children come up to him asking him if he's made of chocolate, some are shocked when he tells them he's as human as they are. Many adults don't realize how terrible it all is and they don't even know how it could be a problem likening a black dude to a gorilla.
Hopefully people like him, and the slight increase in representation in media, will make a difference in future generations.
There's a black teacher living in Japan on TikTok demonstrating how awfully casual it all is, children come up to him asking him if he's made of chocolate, some are shocked when he tells them he's as human as they are. Many adults don't realize how terrible it all is and they don't even know how it could be a problem likening a black dude to a gorilla.
Hopefully people like him, and the slight increase in representation in media, will make a difference in future generations.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Drive-By in a Sensitive Thread
Do you guys really think Sakurai of all people purposely set up a racist scenario, took a screenshot and posted it publicly for hundreds of thousands to see to purposely showcase his racism? Give someone the benefit of the doubt for once and put your pitchforks down jeez
I don't disagree that there are a lot of problematic instances, and I do genuinely believe it's because he has no idea what he's doing wrong because the only people he's actually discussing these things with are other Japanese people who don't understand these issues either and they haven't caused enough of a stir in western media sites for NoA to direct it to his attention
Japan has a lot of casual racism that doesn't get pushed back on there because there's so little ethnic diversity in Japan. This is a problem, but it's not a simple one to fix
... I don't see how that could be the intent. Shadow mario is like, blue, for a start.
And if they wanted that, Bowser Jr. Who was shadow mario all along Is literally a playable character in the game
He's done this EXACT thing before with the Shadow Mario Model, even mentioned that its not usual for him to do so. No reason he couldn't do it again.
Edit: Not sure where he mentioned the weirdness of it, but here's the post:
I dunno guys I'm in Canada and have never heard of this event or seen that picture, I find it exceedingly unlikely a Japanese man would have
I've said it before and taken a hit from the forum, that Smash's representation issues are not a smash problem, but an industry problem. Smash is a reflection of popular characters on Nintendo consoles.
It's sad but there aren't a lot of POC options, and the few that exist, are overshadowed by white "main characters". And primarily POCs are "reskin options."
With all that said, not a good look for this picture.
How many times?
Disagree, if they added Sephiroth they could add Barret. If they added Min Min they could add Twintelle. Also there's Marina, Splatoon 3 is coming.
part of me wondered if Mario was trying to wash off Rodin's tattoos as a Sunshine graffiti gag
Yeah, when you put these 2 points together:
- How many black characters there are in Smash (lol)
- The fact that Rodin isn't even a playable character, but an assist trophy
Yeeep. How many passes does he deserve?How many times?
Disagree, if they added Sephiroth they could add Barret. If they added Min Min they could add Twintelle.
I think, the joke is, that Mario tried to hit Rodin with FLOOD, who comical dodges out of the way, and accidently hits Peach?
If Sakurai really wanted to reference that moment on history, then he failed, since Rodin dodges the water ...
I think the issue is that the other people who'd be double checking him would likely be just as racially insensitive and ignorant as Sakurai himself because it's not a conversation that actually happens much in Japan for a number of reasons
Even if people give him the benefit of the doubt (wouldn't the first time with this game), that doesn't change that the imagery is being invoked. The pic should still come down at the very least
There's no point in thinking up alternatives that are "less bad." All the reasons why are bad, as is the image.
Creating excuses for stuff like this suggests people in japan are too dumb/sheltered/ignorant/etc. to account for this, which is messed up.
I don't know how fair this is ....understanding issues is one thing, knowing about all relevant events of the past is something entirely different.
I know a lot a about the issues as a Black Person but regarding that specific event it took a couple people explaining it for me to even connect th dots.
Many people jumping into thread now have the benefit of the potential connections being posted and presented to them...but now many would recognize something fishy on their own if they saw the screen just randomly ?
I mean, there's nuance on both sides here that people often OFTEN like to forget.
On one hand, this is not the first or second time something sketchy like this has happened. People have given Sakurai A LOT of benefit of the doubt.
On the other hand, it doesn't make Sakurai "as racist as you can possibly be". It can come down to the casual racism in Japan where black folks are often seen to be the butt of jokes. Not quite the same as someone who believes black folks don't deserve the same rights. But still not good.
Especially with the stage, I'm sure this is supposed to be some sort of Sunshine reference.
But that doesn't excuse ignorance, or possible feint ignorance. Don't present a black man being sprayed with a hose you fucking idiot. And I agree there are better choices than Rodin too. Metal Mario....alt dard Mario...the model of Shadow Mario that's in the fucking game...
If it was supposed to be a Shadow Mario reference it feels more shadow racist instead. Very sus.
But that doesn't excuse ignorance, or possible feint ignorance. Don't present a black man being sprayed with a hose you fucking idiot. And I agree there are better choices than Rodin too. Metal Mario....alt dard Mario...the model of Shadow Mario that's in the fucking game...
If it was supposed to be a Shadow Mario reference it feels more shadow racist instead. Very sus.
How many times?
Disagree, if they added Sephiroth they could add Barret. If they added Min Min they could add Twintelle.
It's not really a disagreeable situation. I've never played a FF game, I know who sephiroth is.
POC are often relegated to party characters while main characters trend white. And that's a problem. From research I learned who Barret was. And quite frankly, not the best POC representation I've ever seen, almost felt like a parody.
For Min Min, she was the most popular, and also, she was a person of color herself. And lastly, she has stretchy arms.
If these are the two examples you're referring to it's straight up the case A I described of "overshadowed by other characters in the series."
Id love to see better representation, I think there are incredible characters under represented, including twintelle and doc Louis, many different gerudo, using Splatoon characters instead of generic squid kids, etc
He could get help from some Noa social media person. He should realise he has wide fan base.
I don't know why you're so confident a Japanese person born in 1970 is even remotely familiar with an event that happened in the US in the 60s before he was born
Jesus ChristHow many times?
What in the actual fuck where they smoking when they aproved that? 😧
Japan has very few black people so the issues don't draw attention there. You're right about the stereotypes being the same, because they're being imported by US media (which is pretty much the only thing about the US that Japanese people would actively consume). Also Nintendo is not Sakurai and as a corporation, Nintendo is not your friend. If you want a corporation like Nintendo to address this type of problem, you need to be sending this to major gaming sites and the like and getting them to generate bad press. Corporations aren't going to act when they don't feel financially pressured in any way.
This is one of those things that would probably go by unnoticed if there hadn't been a series of, uh, "unfortunate" instances of anti-black-isms in the game. Rodin isn't even being hit by the water but it's difficult to look at this and forget stuff like Dee Jay. Even if the argument here is that it isn't intentionally racist, it shows apathy or negligence on their part.
I don't particularly think this is meant to be an explicit reference to the Birmingham Campaign. The way I interpret the image is that Rodin is trying to like, protect Peach or something from getting sprayed with water, kinda like how some people defend royalty from getting hurt. The coat makes me think it's meant to be like a reference to those like the business outfits that security tends to wear or something like that. I don't think they were trying to specifically reference the event but it definitely isn't the best look possible.
I do believe Sakurai does need to be a bit more educated to avoid potentially problematic stuff like that since it definitely is not ok to post something like that without context but to argue that this image has the same negative connotations as the actually racist imagery within Smash Bros itself (such as the spirits and overall lack of black characters in the roster) kinda doesn't do any service to the people that actually want these things to get better in my opinion.
but hey, I'm probably wrong about that and Sakurai is indeed a racist because hell, I had a mental breakdown a couple of days ago, partly because I'm realizing the terrible situations that affect people of my skin color are not getting better, and of course, now the best thing to happen right now is for me to feel the moral obligation to completely abandon smash, a game of my childhood that brought me close to many people simply because it perpetuates racial stereotypes and harmful imagery that impacts people of my skin tone and I just want to be happy about videogames again after literally all the awful shit I've seen come out of the industry over the past couple of months but nope, I cannot have that of course because life sometimes isn't fair
I do believe Sakurai does need to be a bit more educated to avoid potentially problematic stuff like that since it definitely is not ok to post something like that without context but to argue that this image has the same negative connotations as the actually racist imagery within Smash Bros itself (such as the spirits and overall lack of black characters in the roster) kinda doesn't do any service to the people that actually want these things to get better in my opinion.
but hey, I'm probably wrong about that and Sakurai is indeed a racist because hell, I had a mental breakdown a couple of days ago, partly because I'm realizing the terrible situations that affect people of my skin color are not getting better, and of course, now the best thing to happen right now is for me to feel the moral obligation to completely abandon smash, a game of my childhood that brought me close to many people simply because it perpetuates racial stereotypes and harmful imagery that impacts people of my skin tone and I just want to be happy about videogames again after literally all the awful shit I've seen come out of the industry over the past couple of months but nope, I cannot have that of course because life sometimes isn't fair
User Banned (2 Weeks): Whataboutism and Dismissive Drive-By in a Sensitive Thread
This reminds me of the riot in France 2 years ago (yellow jackets)
Clearly Sakurai is xenophobe and hate french people! /s
Calm down era, this is just a picture of 3 cartoonish characters.
Clearly Sakurai is xenophobe and hate french people! /s
Calm down era, this is just a picture of 3 cartoonish characters.
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