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Saint Seiya is a really good anime/show that works against toxic masculinity

PhoenixAKG

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,814
ScoobsJoestar said:
I watched Tenkai Hen as a kid and I just remember being confused. Like I just didn't understand the plot at all. I should rewatch it lol
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Same here. I HATED it as a kid, but I've been thinking about rewatching it.

rottenpie said:
Tenkai-Hen is the best Saint Seiya movie ever, I'll never tire of saying it!!

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And I'm heartbroken because we will never have such an amazing movie like this one ever again.
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This movie is responsible for the state of Saint Seiya today. Do we know why they made so many changes that angered Kuramada?


Sargerus said:
"Hey Hyoga, remember that time I almost ripped your heart out?"
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He did it twice in fact.
 
OP
OP
DragonSJG

DragonSJG

Banned
Mar 4, 2019
14,341
Imagine we got 3 tenkai hen movies like originally planned to finish the story
It would have been huge, Rebuild of Evangelion before ROE
 
PhoenixAKG

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,814
Anyone else find it weird Ikki fell in love with a girl that looks like a gender swapped version of his brother?
 

Deleted member 721

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its been a long time, but i remember that i didnt hated tenkai hen, and i was kinda happy that they would fucking finaly do the zeus arc, and finish saint seiya.

btw i know there's animes that are after saint seiya, did they spoil what happened after hades?
 
PhoenixAKG

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,814
Eylos said:
its been a long time, but i remember that i didnt hated tenkai hen, and i was kinda happy that they would fucking finaly do the zeus arc, and finish saint seiya.

btw i know there's animes that are after saint seiya, did they spoil what happened after hades?
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The Tenkai Hen spoils the whole Hades Arc honestly.

DiipuSurotu said:
Honestly Kurumada wrote a lot of iffy shit
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It's worse in the Netflix remake (ugh) as Esmerald is just "Shaun" but blonde. Massive Yikes.

At least in the original Ikki also has Pandora.
 
Mewzard

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
3,454
Eylos said:
idk i never watched anything besides the og saintseiya (+movies, hades, nd), and lost canvas, i'm curious if omega, etc talk something about it
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Pretty sure Toei'd avoid referencing that to avoid stepping on any toes. Since Tenkai-Hen, they've avoided the Olympians for the most part (not counting Roman versions).
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
PhoenixAKG said:
So is there a reason why Aiolos wasn't brought back as a Specter for the Hades arc?
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Nothing about Aiolos has a reason or makes any sense

A 10-year-old Shura somehow killed Aiolos lol. But not before Aiolos somehow had the time to go back to his temple and write a message on the wall for the future Bronze Saints
 

Erigu

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,937
DiipuSurotu said:
Nothing about Aiolos has a reason or makes any sense
A 10-year-old Shura somehow killed Aiolos lol. But not before Aiolos somehow had the time to go back to his temple and write a message on the wall for the future Bronze Saints
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Saint Seiya Episode Zero covers that bit. Not that that makes a lot of sense anyway, but hey.
 
PhoenixAKG

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,814
Erigu said:
Saint Seiya Episode Zero covers that bit. Not that that makes a lot of sense anyway, but hey.
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Ugh. Episode Zero is pointless honestly. We already knew enough about Aiolos's story.

Eylos said:
i think its due he was a legit extremly loyal good guy, famous for the sacrifice and stuff, and if saga told aiolos and he joined, hades would get suspicious
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Yet why wasn't Hades suspicious of good Saga whose loyalty rivals Aiolos's and was known as a god among men?
OhSatan said:
Yeah in canon in a subtle way it seems to be implied that Aiolos soul lives now in his cloth so Hades could not claim him.
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Could be. Maybe there is something about the gold cloth that can escape Hades' influence. Would explain how they all got to Elysium

On another topic who are people's favourite Marine Generals? I like Isaac, Sorrento, and Kanon.
 
PhoenixAKG

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,814
DiipuSurotu said:
So was he possessed by the god of war Ares, as the fan theories said?
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No.

So Thanatos and Hypnos have a never mentioned or foreshadowed sister (because she conveniently has the power to erase people's memories of her) named Ker who controls evil spirits and when Saga was born she put one in him. Also she was the one who revived Saga, Deathmask and Aphrodite in the Hades arc and said she was always watching them so don't think of a betrayal which doesn't make sense with them being in on Shion's plan to help Athena especially with regards to Saga.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
There's a lot of things to this day I don't get about St. Seiya. Like I still don't get why he didn't just make Seika=Marin, was there even a point to them being distinct?
 

Deleted member 721

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sanctuary hades arc is very good, but after that is shit

after you finish that watch lost canvas, while its not canon, its great
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
mrmoose said:
There's a lot of things to this day I don't get about St. Seiya. Like I still don't get why he didn't just make Seika=Marin, was there even a point to them being distinct?
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Yeah, that whole thing is so weird lol. Including the introduction of Marin's brother Toma in Heaven Chapter / Next Dimension out of nowhere.
 
Mewzard

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
3,454
mrmoose said:
There's a lot of things to this day I don't get about St. Seiya. Like I still don't get why he didn't just make Seika=Marin, was there even a point to them being distinct?
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I would counter with this:

If Marin was actually Seika, why wouldn't she have said anything at some point? Would she really have let her teenage brother scour the planet looking for someone who is already close to him?

Hell, if she was Marin...WHEN did she have the time to become a Saint? Seiya was close to his sister until he was forced to go train to be a Saint...and would have met Marin within the next day or so of leaving his sister.

Honestly, it makes absolutely no sense for Marin to be Seika. She was clearly always meant to be a red herring.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
Mewzard said:
I would counter with this:

If Marin was actually Seika, why wouldn't she have said anything at some point? Would she really have let her teenage brother scour the planet looking for someone who is already close to him?

Hell, if she was Marin...WHEN did she have the time to become a Saint? Seiya was close to his sister until he was forced to go train to be a Saint...and would have met Marin within the next day or so of leaving his sister.

Honestly, it makes absolutely no sense for Marin to be Seika. She was clearly always meant to be a red herring.
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But why? It's not like Marin's true identity was super important (at least not that I remember), why even include that?
 
thetrin

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,652
Atlanta, GA
Let's not pretend like Japan is so bereft of beautiful emotional men with feminine features. Saint Seiya is cool and all, but it's not like this defiant wall standing against the tidal wave of macho japanese media. Japan is a country full of examples of non macho men. In fact, these so called feminine men are the height of masculinity in Japanese culture. Macho men are often perceived as homosexual.
 
Mewzard

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
3,454
mrmoose said:
But why? It's not like Marin's identity was super important (at least not that I remember), why even include that?
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Why what? The mystery? Probably to get kids to want to keep reading, since his last book before Saint Seiya, Otoko Zaka, was cancelled super early (which he waited like 30 years to continue and is now finishing up at a much larger size).

Marin's actual identity matters a little more now, given
we see that Marin's actual kid brother, Touma, is an Angel serving Olympus.

Heaven Chapter version:

TenkaihenSleepGlory.jpg


Next Dimension version:

Sleepangelgloryenglish.jpg
 

Deleted member 721

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now that i think about this seika plot point it doesnt make much sense especialy in the manga, like dude is a millionaire with lots of contacts and they cant find a girl of a orphanage? there's register and stuff it would be very fast to find her, and hell she's mitsumasa kiddo child, why the hell do you left her alone in an orphanage

wtf
 
Mewzard

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
3,454
Eylos said:
now that i think about this seika plot point it doesnt make much sense especialy in the manga, like dude is a millionaire with lots of contacts and they cant find a girl of a orphanage? there's register and stuff it would be very fast to find her, and hell she's mitsumasa kiddo child, why the hell do you left her alone in an orphanage

wtf
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Well, what actually happened was

Seika pretty much immediately went to find Sanctuary to be with her brother, but suffered a head injury and ended up with Amnesia, living in a Greek town for the next several years. Marin disappeared after the Sanctuary Arc because she decided to help Seiya finally track down his sister and found her with no memories of Seiya. I assume she started her search close to Sanctuary because that's the one place Seika knew Seiya would be.
 

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Mewzard said:
Well, what actually happened was

Seika pretty much immediately went to find Sanctuary to be with her brother, but suffered a head injury and ended up with Amnesia, living in a Greek town for the next several years. Marin disappeared after the Sanctuary Arc because she decided to help Seiya finally track down his sister and found her with no memories of Seiya.
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i know but why they took seiya alone, and why mitsumasa never cared to take care of her, dude is a gigantic asshole.
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Kurumada himself said he didn't decide who Seiya's sister was until he actually wrote the Hades chapter
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

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Mewzard said:
Oh? Was that in one of the volume comments, or from an interview?
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It's in an interview in something called Saint Cloth Chronicle:
French version said:
4. Est-ce qu'il y a un personnage qui a beaucoup dƩviƩ par rapport Ơ ce que vous aviez prƩvu pour lui ?

Kurumada : Il n'y a pas vraiment de tel personnage. Au dĆ©but, je comptais faire de Milo le maĆ®tre de Hyōga, mais ensuite je me suis dit que de la glace avait aprĆØs tout un rapport direct avec l'eau, j'ai donc changĆ© pour Camus. Au dĆ©but, je n'avais pas encore dĆ©cidĆ© si Marin serait oui ou non la sœur de Seiya. Je me suis dit que je verrais Ƨa au cours de l'histoire. Si on construit son histoire avec un choix en tĆŖte, on prend le risque que les lecteurs percent le mystĆØre en cours de route.
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Google Translate said:
4. Is there a character who has deviated a lot from what you had planned for him?

Kurumada: There really isn't such a character. At first, I intended to make Milo the master of Hyōga, but then I thought that ice had a direct relationship with water after all, so I changed to Camus. At first, I hadn't yet decided whether or not Marin would be Seiya's sister. I told myself that I would see that in the course of the story. If you build your story with a choice in mind, you run the risk that readers will unravel the mystery along the way.
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mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
The dumb thing is, it wasn't much of a mystery (oh, she's not Seiya's sister? ok.) and it feels like that was at least initially the primary reason for the "female saints have to wear masks" thing. And then I looked up why female saints actually had to wear masks in canon and it gets even worse, something about "discarding their womanhood."
 
Mewzard

Mewzard

Member
Feb 4, 2018
3,454
mrmoose said:
The dumb thing is, it wasn't much of a mystery (oh, she's not Seiya's sister? ok.) and it feels like that was at least initially the primary reason for the "female saints have to wear masks" thing. And then I looked up why female saints actually had to wear masks in canon and it gets even worse, something about "discarding their womanhood."
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It's even weirder given no other god army has this rule.

It's definitely a thing that wouldn't have even existed had Saint Seiya been written a decade later (Marin still could have worn a mask for the mystery, but nobody else would, which is pretty much what the CG Netflix show did).
 
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