São Paulo court orders Sony to “unblock” PS5, a video game console that costs more than R $ 5,000

[PunkSxE]

The thing is a lot of people exploited the system and profited from it. There were streamers trading the Plus Collection games for Twitch Prime subs

I'm redeeming the games from PS Plus Collection for those who are Prime Members on my channel [...] Those who want it can send me your login info to my channel's inbox.

Click to shrink...

He did it for more than 200 people, and had his PS5 banned live

 

[BubblegumNemesis]

I didn't know they blocked the whole console, I thought just the account?

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

I guess this is a good thread to talk about how utterly bullshit it is when Sony bans an account and it winds up permanently revoking access to all of the user's digital games. It is long past time for Sony to handle it like Valve, where your account is only restricted from making new purchases; old games are still accessible.

Click to shrink...

Wow. I always assumed that's how it worked. That's fucked up.

 

[JhOnNY_HD]

Netflix shut down my cellphone or pc if I do that?

Click to shrink...

Your cellphone is manufactered by netflix?

Anyone trade more than 50 accounts for the collection and make profit for that.

Anyone has their PS5 blocked by mistake without knowing what are you doing stop defending exploits.

 

[Adamska]

What do you mean once the information comes to light? Sony presumably present their facts during trial assuming this is not an injunction but rather a final order.

Click to shrink...

They did not present anything yet, they haven't even been duly notified yet. It's an injunction for now.

 

[Alvis]

nvm

 

[Hesdry]

Your cellphone is manufactered by netflix?

Anyone trade more than 50 accounts for the collection and make profit for that.

Anyone has their PS5 blocked by mistake without knowing what are you doing stop defending exploits.

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry, but what you see as an exploit defense is nothing less than the taste of Sony's boot in your mouth. Sony has transformed a car price console (in Brazil) into a paperweight of the price of a car and without any justification, something that is against consumer rights.

And if I may ask: You are Brazilian, right?

 

[Theswweet]

Again, I must stress, at a bare minimum you should be angry at Sony for making these systems e-waste. There's no excuse for that.

 

[Richietto]

Yeah they should ban the account from making any more purchases and whatnot and be done with it. Blocking the entire console is fuckin dumb. Steam is a good example.

 

[Hugo Scamander]

Hugo Scamander I have some news for you
Unless... it was you all along

Click to shrink...

Lmao it wasn't me! But there's a catch. The decision is to unban that one specific console so I don't see mine getting unbanned unless a miracle happens.
Oh. And a British dude tweeted me that his console got unbanned out of nowhere so idk.

 

[Hugo Scamander]

You can still play unpatched physical games (since patches require PSN), I believe. But it does limit usability a ton.


Nah, just revoke access to the collections in that case, but even then, making somebody lose all their digital games that they paid for (I know, you don't "own" anything) and essentially leaving a perfectly fine working console useless is stupid.

Click to shrink...

Nope. I bought a banned console for pennies and it updates all games just fine. It's the weirdest thing ever.

 

[JhOnNY_HD]

Yeah they should ban the account from making any more purchases and whatnot and be done with it. Blocking the entire console is fuckin dumb. Steam is a good example.

Click to shrink...

You can create a new account in 3 minutes.
Some people have years of psplus using the 14 days new account trial.

Banning the console was a thing since 360 you cant do everyting you want

 

[nekkid]

Console banning should absolutely be made illegal for Sony to do. Same goes for MS.

Actually this should just blanket apply to any hardware that's controllable via remote updates. No single company should have the power to decide the fate of your investment. Questions of behaviour should go to some sort of independent arbitration.

 

[w00tmanUK]

Console banning should absolutely be made illegal for Sony to do. Same goes for MS.

Actually this should just blanket apply to any hardware that's controllable via remote updates. No single company should have the power to decide the fate of your investment. Questions of behaviour should go to some sort of independent arbitration.

Click to shrink...

You cool with modified hardware that can cheat in every multiplayer game - right?

Cause banning a PSN account takes about 3 or 4 minutes to set up a new account, 7 day trial and boom- back to cheating.

I'd probably have more sympathy for the people with banned hardware if they hadn't turned it into a business enterprise - selling access to the games on PSN, for instance.

 

[Palette Swap]

Console banning and banning accounts from being able to redownload their purchases are two huge red lines, and there has to be jurisdictions where neither would stand.

If you can't manage your service or user base without resorting to either, I don't know what the fuck you've been doing over the past few years.

 

[nekkid]

You cool with modified hardware that can cheat in every multiplayer game - right?

Cause banning a PSN account takes about 3 or 4 minutes to set up a new account, 7 day trial and boom- back to cheating.

I'd probably have more sympathy for the people with banned hardware if they hadn't turned it into a business enterprise - selling access to the games on PSN, for instance.

Click to shrink...

Did you read my post properly? Or did you read the first sentence then just dive right in?

 

[w00tmanUK]

Did you read my post properly? Or did you read the first sentence then just dive right in?

Click to shrink...

Oh you were being serious about an independent arbitration process for little jimmy who has put a lag switch in his PS4. Sorry yes, great suggestion.

 

[nekkid]

Oh you were being serious about an independent arbitration process for little jimmy who has put a lag switch in his PS4. Sorry yes, great suggestion.

Click to shrink...

So you're comfortable with companies playing the roles of judge, jury and executioner?

In a more direct answer to your question: I care more about consumer protections than I care about kids getting an unfair leg up in CoD.

 

[w00tmanUK]

So you're comfortable with companies playing the roles of judge, jury and executioner?

In a more direct answer to your question: I care more about consumer protections than I care about kids getting an unfair leg up in CoD.

Click to shrink...

Have we heard of any false positive banning for this PS5 game-sharing situation or is this a hypothetical?

Who would fund the arbitration?

 

[nekkid]

Have we heard of any false positive banning for this PS5 game-sharing situation or is this a hypothetical?

Who would fund the arbitration?

Click to shrink...

No idea, I'm not going to pretend it's my problem to solve. But don't you agree that it's not right that a company should have the right to disable hardware because of their own judgement?

 

[Dreazy]

Great decision unless they were using the console to do foul shit

 

[w00tmanUK]

No idea, I'm not going to pretend it's my problem to solve. But don't you agree that it's not right that a company should have the right to disable hardware because of their own judgement?

Click to shrink...

Not directly, no, I don't agree.

I think these things will need "policing" (for want of a better phrase) better in the future, but I have no particular concern with this as a concept. I am sure that it could, and probably will, be misused but some company somewhere, but the likelihood of this being a wide scale problem is remote because it is so short sighted of a business tactic. What would a business have to gain by doing this for nefarious reasons? the moment a brand goes nuclear and does something like - "you can only use your device if you pay this one-time fee of $100 or your hardware is bricked" - is the second the brand dies.

Maybe its because i'm not expecting to be the target that it doesn't concern me. What does concern me is that my game time is ruined (theoretically) by people who don't play by the same rules - hence I also disable cross-play where I can.

 

[deathkiller]

I agree with console banning for hacking, I don't agree with console banning because Sony didn't bother to put an error message when you go over their arbitrary hidden number of activations. Nobody should get banned for using a menu option.

 

[nekkid]

Not directly, no, I don't agree.

I think these things will need "policing" (for want of a better phrase) better in the future, but I have no particular concern with this as a concept. I am sure that it could, and probably will, be misused but some company somewhere, but the likelihood of this being a wide scale problem is remote because it is so short sighted of a business tactic. What would a business have to gain by doing this for nefarious reasons? the moment a brand goes nuclear and does something like - "you can only use your device if you pay this one-time fee of $100 or your hardware is bricked" - is the second the brand dies.

Maybe its because i'm not expecting to be the target that it doesn't concern me. What does concern me is that my game time is ruined (theoretically) by people who don't play by the same rules - hence I also disable cross-play where I can.

Click to shrink...

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree. Because I can't fathom taking the side of a corporation on this. Maybe you're cool with this on consoles, but it's a much bigger topic than that. Tech firms are are doing this because they technically can, and because, once again, legislation is way behind the curve.

 

[Ricky Baker]

Good. Fuck DRM.

 

[Richietto]

You can create a new account in 3 minutes.
Some people have years of psplus using the 14 days new account trial.

Banning the console was a thing since 360 you cant do everyting you want

Click to shrink...

Get rid of the trial???

 

[JustinH]

I guess I can see why they'd console ban a PS5 that's used to sell access for the PSN+ Colletion thingy since when you're selling that access, you're using other people's accounts and not yours. I still think that's a little extreme, though.

I think the best move would be for them to just figure out a way to remove that console's ability to redeem those games. That way people can't continue to exploit the system and still be able to use their consoles. Like a "different kind of ban" that doesn't render it completely useless.

 

[HardRojo]

I guess I can see why they'd console ban a PS5 that's used to sell access for the PSN+ Colletion thingy since when you're selling that access, you're using other people's accounts and not yours. I still think that's a little extreme, though.

I think the best move would be for them to just figure out a way to remove that console's ability to redeem those games. That way people can't continue to exploit the system and still be able to use their consoles. Like a "different kind of ban" that doesn't render it completely useless.

Click to shrink...

Yeah like a 3 month long ban from buying games on the console or something like that. Thing is, and I'm speaking from experience, these things won't be developed into the system unless law mandates it (thus prioritizing its inclusion) or unless Sony decides its necessary and find a spot within their pipeline for the development of such a thing. Hopefully they do.

 

[Deleted member 81119]

If Sony aren't allowed to ban consoles any more, then they just have to adjust offers like PS Plus Collection so they're not abusable. It's not that hard.

 

[Adamska]

Sony has informed they unblocked the PS5 for now and will present their defense in due time. Looking forward to seeing how they'll try to justify banning the consoles.

 

[headspawn]

In some cases it's warranted. When you sell access to the ps+ games collection and sign over 50 accounts into one ps5 you deserve it.

Click to shrink...

What does that have to do with the console though? That should be an account infraction or a PS+/PSN ban.

A console ban is ridiculous unless they plan on giving them a refund.

 

[Iron Eddie]

Sony has informed they unblocked the PS5 for now and will present their defense in due time. Looking forward to seeing how they'll try to justify banning the consoles.

Click to shrink...

The account owner should also have to justify their actions, no? Sony should have parameters put in place to stop abuse. We all know people abuse or exploit things all the time. Netflix accounts have been shared for years, I think they have since made it harder? Not sure but I doubt you are able to have 20 people on one account.

In this case I would ban the account from going online and making future purchases but any game that can be played offline should remain.

 

[Amnixia]

Instead of banning the devices, just ban all the involved accounts? They get a slap on their wrists and Sony doesn't brick consoles.

 

[Yuuber]

According to the Brazilian consumer law, any contract clause that might cause a limitation to the consumer's right must come with the proper highlight.

So, for this punishment to be somewhat legal here, Sony should have a disclaimer, right before the purchase of PS Plus for example, stating clearly and loudly that using it on more than one console will result in the brickage of the console. But even in this case you could still argue that such punishment is extremely severe and it's an abusive contract clause, and the judge could nullify the clause itself.

Sony's also violating fundamental rights related to due process (such as the right to present your reasons/defense), that are applied to private contracts here. They can't just ban a console out of nowhere without presenting any reasons to the customer, not giving him any way for him to defend against it, this is insane.

So yeah, this is deservedly not looking good for Sony here and I hope they lose. It's such a bullshit behavior.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the thorough consumer's rights explanation. While I agree those people clearly abusing the system should face some punishment, you can't block the console. It's ridiculous.

 

[Era of not Yakuza]

According to the Brazilian consumer law, any contract clause that might cause a limitation to the consumer's right must come with the proper highlight.

So, for this punishment to be somewhat legal here, Sony should have a disclaimer, right before the purchase of PS Plus for example, stating clearly and loudly that using it on more than one console will result in the brickage of the console. But even in this case you could still argue that such punishment is extremely severe and it's an abusive contract clause, and the judge could nullify the clause itself.

Sony's also violating fundamental rights related to due process (such as the right to present your reasons/defense), that are applied to private contracts here. They can't just ban a console out of nowhere without presenting any reasons to the customer, not giving him any way for him to defend against it, this is insane.

So yeah, this is deservedly not looking good for Sony here and I hope they lose. It's such a bullshit behavior.

Click to shrink...

Oh, sometimes we do have some to be happy about here in Brazil

 

[justiceiro]

It never costed more than R$ 5000, even before the tax reduction.

 

[Stoof]

Good. Any platform owner that blocks use of a console or takes away digital game rights is shitty. Stop them from going online or making new purchases on that account if you want but essentially bricking the console (in the case of the digital PS5) is garbage.

 

[Adamska]

Sony has offered their defense in this matter, and even have added excerpts from previous favorable rulings regarding how the sharing of content is forbidden under the terms of the PSN user agreement and how banning the console when such violation happens is within the platform holder's rights under the agreement.