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Ryan McCaffrey (IGN): I was wrong to drink the "current-gen won't hold next-gen back" Kool-Aid
- Thread starter orochi91
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Scaling nowadays in PC reaches where Jaguar reaches. With next gen the baseline will be another, much higher than before.
User Banned (2 Weeks) - Platform Warring with history of similar
theres a reason they are called Xbots
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And I'm sure you were vigilant for deception or misinformation during the "supercharged pc" days, right? Please. The Visited by Knack brigade have their biases alongside everyone who parrots Phil Spencer's statements.
If I never hear people describe next generation games as anti consumer again I'll be a happy person.
the discussion and framing around Microsoft and Sony's different approaches as being purely pro/anti consumer basically made those terms Meaningless.
the discussion and framing around Microsoft and Sony's different approaches as being purely pro/anti consumer basically made those terms Meaningless.
No, because the Pro and the X install base is minimal compared to the base models. It wouldn't make any sense
That's...how journalism works?
Why would John or Ryan expose their sources? They have nothing to gain by contradicting Spencer's claims.
If anything, they're doing us a service by clearing up misinformation/misconceptions.
Maybe cause its Monday but I read that tweet 5 times and I can't understand what it is saying. I should go to the doctor.
So he originally had a stance that, "current gen will NOT hold back the next gen" and has since realized that it definitely will. But that mainly applies to the Large Triple A type titles? Why did he assume that before...?
So he originally had a stance that, "current gen will NOT hold back the next gen" and has since realized that it definitely will. But that mainly applies to the Large Triple A type titles? Why did he assume that before...?
I don't think it's completely clear cut. No generations are as seamless as this one. The time it takes to make games, when they start and the time they line up, there is going to be overlap and it's not neccessarily holding things back, just the reality and some economics. Yes it's obvious at some point that it holds things back but it's neither here nor there initially when devs are making a current gen game long before next gen takes off and want the install base safety net. Of course in an ideal world they want best specs and those only to develop for and have the install base size to make the most out of it but things don't often line up.
Same jaguar pos cpu, the sooner we drop it the better it will be.
Great to see it. There are PLENTY of 2021-beyond games that will be fine and even flourish on current gen or cross-gen.... indies, old ports/remasters, Switch ports, annual sports games, etc etc
Halo is not one of those games. Mega-budget AAA and GaaS games will be compromised, AAA because you can't push high end while supporting Jaguar and GaaS because you are chaining your game to Jaguar for the duration of its life, unless you intend to kill support early (in which case why even bother with cross gen)
Halo is not one of those games. Mega-budget AAA and GaaS games will be compromised, AAA because you can't push high end while supporting Jaguar and GaaS because you are chaining your game to Jaguar for the duration of its life, unless you intend to kill support early (in which case why even bother with cross gen)
It's actually kind of funny how extremely dark the origin of the phrase "drinking the Kool aid" is and how it just gets used all the time without really thinking about that.
What? I don't even know what visited by Knack brigade means, or what supercharged pc even alludes to, but yes, of course there is PR on all sides and people who believe it all without question, that doesn't change the merit of the points I raised.
I think what was distinct about this particular example is that it was counter to generations long understanding of cross-gen negative implications. In other words, a pretty big re-write of an established narrative.
Read up on "Jonestown." It's a reference to a mass-suicide/murder by a cult leader in a communal compound.
Developer insights~
Bahh, gotcha. Interesting takes... I've worked on Console Exclusives and PC Exclusives and you feel extremely limited when working on a PC Exclusive title, since you HAVE to develop it with the lowest of the low in mind or else you'll get such reduced sales it makes it pointless. Working on a console exclusive is so freeing, because you can just keep squeezing the juice of the console until it doesn't run anymore, then scale back a tad, so your original vision has an easier time holding throughout the production.
There are of course exceptions, like certain engines will scale regardless, but it's always nice to know exactly what you are aiming at.
Oh yeah that's actually what I was thinking when I wrote that out! It's used for such innocuous things such as this for example lol
Oh I know about it! Was just poking a bit of fun at Ryan's choice of words.
I thought the whole point of Unreal Engine 5 is that developers will be able to easily and seamlessly "scale down" assets to fit the requirements of various hardware specs.
The time and effort it takes to create PS4/X1 ports will always be costly, but I have a hard time really thinking that they will really compromise anything beyond graphics.
The time and effort it takes to create PS4/X1 ports will always be costly, but I have a hard time really thinking that they will really compromise anything beyond graphics.
I actually thought about it when I put that phrase into question on my first post in this thread lol
for AA indie game it wont matter much as it wont be using the power but for AAA games sure .there is always generation cut offs for this reason.
On another note Xbox marketing for next gen has been not so on point in past few months. I wonder if COVID is effecting that? It seems They need to always address something after whatever they say . From their May events to halo Showing to this where they said we don't believe in generation and most are not convinced as highlighted by Ryan.
On other side their gamepass marketing has been great. Are these same teams or different teams??
On another note Xbox marketing for next gen has been not so on point in past few months. I wonder if COVID is effecting that? It seems They need to always address something after whatever they say . From their May events to halo Showing to this where they said we don't believe in generation and most are not convinced as highlighted by Ryan.
On other side their gamepass marketing has been great. Are these same teams or different teams??
Having to design around ancient shit tier CPUs will always have a direct impact on whatever next gen game you're making.
There's nothing wrong with targeting next gen. But it's also a fuck you too your previous 100 million customers.
I don't think all games are going to take advantage of next gen hardware even if it's exclusive to next gen.
What industries abandon their previous customers en masse? Maybe I'm thinking to narrowly.
I'm always looking forward to the next experience, but nothing really wows me anymore. Guess I'm just jaded.
I don't think all games are going to take advantage of next gen hardware even if it's exclusive to next gen.
What industries abandon their previous customers en masse? Maybe I'm thinking to narrowly.
I'm always looking forward to the next experience, but nothing really wows me anymore. Guess I'm just jaded.
I've always been wondering why Phil is so adamant in supporting the Xbox One for this long when hardware sales for this line of system is not that great to begin with.
It would be perfectly logical for Sony to keep suppoting their 110+ million userbase and Xbox could have put the One gen under the rug an start anew. That's what I though they would do when they announced Project Scarlett so early.
It would be perfectly logical for Sony to keep suppoting their 110+ million userbase and Xbox could have put the One gen under the rug an start anew. That's what I though they would do when they announced Project Scarlett so early.
People take Phil and Booty's words out of context. If you think about the games announced from first party during the 1-2 year timeframe, it's Halo and psyonauts in addition to Gears tactics, Flight Sim, and Grounded. If I'm missing something then someone let me know. Point is, they made a decision to try and support these games and financially it makes sense for them, regardless of the extra work involved.
Well yeah, pretty obvious games need to scale to the lowest common denominator. Can still make a really good game though without bleeding edge tech. Just will be limited by those dang jaguar cpus for a couple years.
What have you done...you monster!
What have you done...you monster!
I honestly think they want to get game streaming working on the One. Get a gamepass ultimate sub instead of a new console.
Out of curiosity, how viable do you reckon that high-end market is on PC? Would a developer survive in that scenario if they put out a AAA caliber title, without targeting the lowest common denominator?
Why people are talking about graphics? It isn't about that but potato CPU. The bigger impact is on NPC (from IA to path finding and animations) and physics (destruction but also clothing).
Most AAA(A) are about very big world supposed to be believable. And a big part of that is with NPC. You felt the city was empty in the CP 2077 demo in the driving part? Thank Jaguar :-)
Most AAA(A) are about very big world supposed to be believable. And a big part of that is with NPC. You felt the city was empty in the CP 2077 demo in the driving part? Thank Jaguar :-)
IMHO is because they want to center in GP in the future leaving console production back.
So this is what a cross-gen Phil Spencer looks like, huh? So much for scalability!
Very interesting. Can people remind me why exclusive nextgen games are anti consumer again?
We're still in the cross-gen phase, he's still held back by Mattrick, you see. Can't wait to see next-gen only Phil.
Jesus, no it isn't.
If a developer wants to focus on new hardware and not have to deal with multiple skus and being constrained by it, that's perfectly fine.
This Idea that customes are owed access to new games or that Devs are saying"fuck you" to customers is some serious toxic shit.
Honestly, I really hate how Microsoft's marketing of the series X has created this narrative.
No offense to shinobi's post, but what he wrote was pretty obvious. He was making a good point, but I wouldn't exactly calling quote worthy.
Being easier for devs has nothing to do either way, with consumer friendliness.
The whole debate on this has been really weird to me.
Cross-generation releases were always going to happen for the first couple years of a console's life. Developers and publishers aren't going to simply drop an install base of 150M. For some games it'll work, for others it won't. Games are more scalable than ever, but some games will really need the SSDs and the extra CPU power and just won't be feasible on current consoles.
Microsoft has some cross-generation games coming out, but AFAIK haven't they already announced some games that are next generation exclusive?
The whole thing just seems like a non-issue. People placing way too much on what was said rather than what we've seen.
Cross-generation releases were always going to happen for the first couple years of a console's life. Developers and publishers aren't going to simply drop an install base of 150M. For some games it'll work, for others it won't. Games are more scalable than ever, but some games will really need the SSDs and the extra CPU power and just won't be feasible on current consoles.
Microsoft has some cross-generation games coming out, but AFAIK haven't they already announced some games that are next generation exclusive?
The whole thing just seems like a non-issue. People placing way too much on what was said rather than what we've seen.
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