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Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
No wonder Putin invaded. There's no downside to starting a conflict. "Oops, guess you can't join NATO now." I'm sure he thought he'd roll right over Ukraine and the West would look the other way just like Crimea.
At this point though, fuck it, Ukraine need to be admitted if they ask. Make Putin blink.
Okay, so you'd be in favor of immediately triggering article 5, invading Russia and Belarus? That is the issue.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,835
It will undoubtedly be a short term shock to the system, I'm not suggesting it won't, but they do have SPFS and CIPS as alternatives to take the sting off. I think the bank sanctions and freezing of international assets are the real 'nuclear' option.
Well no real US banks are participating in SPFS (I'm not sure about CIPS) and the real challenge I think is going to be cross border USD/EUR flows, not just moving RUB around (which is I'm guessing what SPFS' primary purpose is...though I'm sure SPFS can do USD too). I think SPFS is mostly CEEMEA-based banks with maybe a few from Switzerland if I remember right, which probably has limited value from a correspondent banking relationship point of view.

I think there's a real risk that removing Russia from SWIFT starts to create some real negative incentives for them when it comes to financial and information flows and might encourage bad behavior by the banking sector.

I'm not actually sure what sanctioning the central bank means.

edit: Also there are some German banks on SFPS I think though I'm not sure what they'll really be able to do given sanctions.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,259
I'm loving the increasing international pressure on Russia but it makes me worry they're going to start getting a lot more irrational and start doing some dangerous lashing out at NATO countries. Guess it is what it is though.
 

BFIB

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,626
The world implications on how hard this has backfired, at least so far, on Russia and alt-right groups of the world is astounding. Zelensky is the face of Democracy for the world right now, and he is uniting the democratic mindset that has felt threatened over the past handful of years in the west. Its incredible what Zelensky and the Ukrainian people are doing.

Me and the wife usually do a vacation in Florida every year, but one, we just can't give our money to a red state anymore, and two, we instead donated those funds to go to relief for the Ukrainian people.
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,653
One thing to remember about the arms being supplied to Ukraine; the troops there need to know how to use them. It's why the focus is on weapons where training was provided late last year/january such as Javelin/NLAW.

Shipping them advanced weapons they don't know how to use could actually slow them down, and there is no way to provide them training without sending NATO troops in there, which won't happen of course.

This is why the more problematic thing hasn't been Germany not directly supplying weapons, it was their blocking of other former eastern-bloc nations transferring weapons to Ukraine that they would be familiar with.

How could Germany block the weapon transfer of former eastern-bloc nations and "eastern" made weapons ?
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,935
California
I've been watching a few Twitch streams where people are effectively blaming the US/NATO for this invasion, for forcing Russia's hand, as it were, after decades of ostracisation.

I'm trying to be measured in my response to these assertions; does anyone have any good readings/sources on the topic?
You shouldn't care and move on. You can't save or convince everyone from their stupidity. I'd say eff ''em and spend your time doing something more productive than trying to convince someone that shit stinks.
 

Maquiladora

Member
Nov 16, 2017
5,068
One thing that this war has exposed is that conventional Russian military forces would be annihilated in a conflict against even a modest modern military force.
 

Matticers

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,190
I wonder how does it feel to be a russian soldier in this situation. Do you think there are some who don't want to be part of this? Because that must suck, having to obey your leaders decisions or otherwise you 'll get punished. Just asking because i'm very clueless about how does the military works.

I have to imagine unless they're bloodthirsty or brainwashed by Putin's propaganda, they don't want to be there. A lot of them are young, they must know the population in Russia doesn't support them being there, there's a decent chance they'll see fierce fighting at some point with a solid chance of dying unless they're with elite groups.
 

a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
[
Putin asked them to send troops to help. They declined.

Russia asked Kazakhstan to send forces in to support the invasion, and Kazakhstan denied the request.



As much as I wish it was is true the NBC is actually distorted from what actually happening.

There was an article by NBC about how Kazakhstan denied Russia's request for troops.

A bit more clarification Kazakhstan and Russia are part of CSTO troops (Collective Security Treaty Organization) which can be deployed only within country who are part of CSTO, the exception to deploy troops outside can be with permission of UN. In other words such request not even an option for Russia.

Kazakhstan haven't discussed the independence of DPR and LPR at this moment.

As for Kazakhstan stance in this conflict my country (do not know about other Central Asian countries) is staying quiet due to political ties with Russia and other reasons. Kazakhstan surrounded by Russia and China, support from west will be a long way and our population is barely 20 million. After this stunt Im sure our politicians are now seeing they are sharing border with a man on short fuse and tryring best to stay out of sight.

Who knows what our President Tokaev signed with Putin for his little help during our chaos days at January. One thing for sure Kazakhstan is already getting hard hits to already bad economy from Russia's sanctions, Kazakh currency dropped by 10% if not more just for couple days, hearing same about Kyrgyzstan currency.

Im for Ukraine, wish them to stay strong and win. Of all countries Kazakhstan sure has one of the most horrible experience during USSR (Kazakhstan Great Famine 1930-1933), just also saddened that rightful punishments to Russia are also affecting other countries as well.
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
I'm loving the increasing international pressure on Russia but it makes me worry they're going to start getting a lot more irrational and start doing some dangerous lashing out at NATO countries. Guess it is what it is though.

That specifically isn't something to worry about anymore now that all their resources are focused on Ukraine.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Literally the opposite in the article itself: "Turkey has not made a decision to close the Dardanelles and Bosphorus straits to Russian ships, a Turkish official with knowledge of the matter told Reuters on Saturday."
I don't know about those straits, but Zelenskyy did tweet this
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
Nah, Turkey isn't allowed to close off the Black Sea against Russia due to the Montreux agreement. Sucks, but yeah..

Would be nice if Turkey just said that "all agreements are off" since Russia started an unprovoked war of aggression within Europe but on the other hand I'm worried that Putin would simply ignore the directive anyway and have his trigger happy Navy do incredibly stupid things at the worst time possible.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,263
Lots of footage of destroyed russian armor and logistics convoys today. Feels like the ukrainian ambushes are working wonders.
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,784
He made it clear he wants the Russian Empire back, not the Soviet Union. He blamed Lenin for Ukraine existing.

Sorry, you are correct. I was remembering that he witnessed the fall of the Soviet Union and just wants to Make Russia Great Again.
(I wouldn't be surprised if that slogan wasn't provided to Trump by Putin.)
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,295
How could Germany block the weapon transfer of former eastern-bloc nations and "eastern" made weapons ?

They were largely weapons originating in east Germany during the cold war; soviet weapons that Ukraine forces would be familiar with. See:

Germany blocks Estonia from transferring weapons to Ukraine

TALLINN - Germany is blocking North Atlantic Treaty Organization ally Estonia from giving military support to Ukraine by refusing to issue permi...

Because they were sold by unified Germany, they fall under German laws including the one about weapons being transferred to war zones.

At issue with Estonia are exports of the D-30, a howitzer that fires a 122-mm shell around 20 kilometers. The howitzers, originally made in the Soviet Union, were stationed in former East Germany. After German reunification, Berlin exported the guns to Finland in the 1990s, which then passed them on to Estonia in 2009, Estonian, Finnish and German officials said.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,977
I'm loving the increasing international pressure on Russia but it makes me worry they're going to start getting a lot more irrational and start doing some dangerous lashing out at NATO countries. Guess it is what it is though.

I don't think Russia is in any position to start another war any time soon seeing how much they failed so far in Ukraine. Even if they manage to take Kyiv soon, the losses suffered and the incompetence showed here will set them back so much in being a threat to any competent military. Add to this the sanctions and I think this is another "fall of Soviet Union" in terms of projecting power for them.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
23,729
I'm loving the increasing international pressure on Russia but it makes me worry they're going to start getting a lot more irrational and start doing some dangerous lashing out at NATO countries. Guess it is what it is though.

if they attack a NATO member, things could get from bad to worse and I honestly don't think Russia has the brute strength to face all allies unless they threaten with nukes.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,259
That specifically isn't something to worry about anymore now that all their resources are focused on Ukraine.
I think what I'm trying to say is that if Putin sees his men being murdered en masse and announcements from Biden that they're supplying Ukraine with more weapons to do so, he'll basically be operating under the mindset that the US is already at war with him.

But I'm not at all saying that we shouldn't be sending weapons and aid.
 
Apr 26, 2020
736
I'm glad that The Netherlands is being so helpful even though Ukraine is on the other side of Europe.

Something to do with how Russian military personell (Under the name of pro-russian seperatist) shot down the MH17 in Eastern Ukraine killing 298 Dutch citizens + couple Australian, Malayans. Dutch-Russian relations has been cold ever since.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,263
I'm loving the increasing international pressure on Russia but it makes me worry they're going to start getting a lot more irrational and start doing some dangerous lashing out at NATO countries. Guess it is what it is though.
If anything this has shown they probably wouldn't be able to hold long against NATO forces.

The way this is going conflict with NATO is probably scaring russian high command shitless
 

Toumari

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,300
England
Screenshot_2022-02-26_at_3.45.01_pm.png


Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447
 

Zevenberge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
570
Is there a FAQ or some article which states why this fucknut Putin is invading Ukraine? is it for territory/resources? or has this cunt trying to throw his weight around to show that he matters?

A long article, but: https://acoup.blog/2022/02/25/miscellanea-understanding-the-war-in-ukraine/

The writer is a historian specialised in the military and knows quite a bit about the politics around warfare. Sometimes he writes articles like this to put current events in a historical perspective.
 

Veezy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
283
Is there a FAQ or some article which states why this fucknut Putin is invading Ukraine? is it for territory/resources? or has this cunt trying to throw his weight around to show that he matters?
There are multiple theories as to why, that I've read, but your second point seems to be a similar thread throughout all of them. If I understand it correctly, Putin really wants to see the restoration of the prior USSR (Edit: Russian Empire) and, additionally, likes having stooges and yes-man leaders of countries surround him. They get to feel powerful and suck up to Putin due to his power, both the from propaganda pushed through those nations (including within Russia, of course) and his ownership of enough nukes to end the world. Additionally, the Russian people aren't really in a great state.

So, you have a guy who wants to be surrounded by sycophants who will hang on his every word and a country on his border that's led by a man who was looking to the EU for partnership. Additionally, Ukraine has been doing better with more democratic policy compared to the dictatorship style of Russia. The more economically secure and healthy Ukraine becomes not being a suck-up to Putin is damaging to his dream of a united USSR, his own ego, and the impression he gives to his people that their suffering isn't unique.

This is what makes this situation so dangerous. Obviously, and I don't want to undersell it, the loss of life is incredibly tragic, and war is always bad in that regard, but Putin's goal isn't something that's really concreate. I mean, sure, taking the Eastern half of Ukraine would be considered, to him, a "win," but that's not everything he wants. What he is doing, and this is my opinion, is primarily fueled by his own self-image and ego. This is no "winning" for him without a complete domination of all old USSR nations that he'll be able to put a stamp on.

I'm not fear mongering in the since that I believe he'll attack NATO nations. I do have genuine concerns of how long this is going to last and what happens if/when Putin doesn't get a clear short-term victory. Maybe not for the world (although, let's be honest, there will be some worldwide consequences), but for the nation of Ukraine. The man doesn't care about the lives of his people or the civilians of Ukraine, so it's difficult to determine how far he's willing to go.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
If anything this has shown they probably wouldn't be able to hold long against NATO forces.

The way this is going conflict with NATO is probably scaring russian high command shitless
Yep Russian is getting repelled by old equipment but modern tactics. Fighting nato would be modern equipment with modern tactics.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,295
I'm loving the increasing international pressure on Russia but it makes me worry they're going to start getting a lot more irrational and start doing some dangerous lashing out at NATO countries. Guess it is what it is though.

Putin might, but I'd like to think those around him and at top levels in the Russian military will see the writing on the wall and end this with a little tap.