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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
So lawyers... I'm no expert, but Rudy and his co-chair, or whatever her position is called, sounded like they lacked some basic knowlege of the law, and struggle a bit understanding simple directions. Does this seem to be the case to you?

Yes. Rudy especially lacked basic understanding of the most barebones concepts and was just winging it.
 

Team_Feisar

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,353
Probably around the "Marry your own Cousin" part of the scale.

Judge is giving them a chance to work on their game but its probably not gonna go their way.
0%



Judge is in actuality making sure their arguments are actually on paper so that when he denies it, it becomes that much harder to appeal. Rudy made a bunch of oral arguments and responses today that were not in the legal briefs submitted. Judge wants that all written down so Trump's lawyers can't say shit later on about how they didn't say something or meant something else.


B-b-but a certain other video game Forum told me that, and I quote, "The left has tried to make a mockery of Rudy but they forget that America's Mayor is one of the best prosecutorial legal minds in recent history."

Surely the frankfurt server raid will make sure Biden ends up in prison any day now, right?

Fucking LOL
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,758
here
giphy.gif
 

Nigel Tufnel

Member
Mar 5, 2019
3,151
So lawyers... I'm no expert, but Rudy and his co-chair, or whatever her position is called, sounded like they lacked some basic knowlege of the law, and struggle a bit understanding simple directions. Does this seem to be the case to you?
My SO is a 3rd year law student. The stuff that Rudy struggled with is stuff she had in class as a 1L.
 

Spock

Member
Oct 27, 2017
769
Is there a a summary of the positions Giuliani took and a breakdown of how and why they apply legally?
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
B-b-but a certain other video game Forum told me that, and I quote, "The left has tried to make a mockery of Rudy but they forget that America's Mayor is one of the best prosecutorial legal minds in recent history."

Surely the frankfurt server raid will make sure Biden ends up in prison any day now, right?

Fucking LOL

LOL, someone actually said this?

Is there a a summary of the positions Giuliani took and a breakdown of how and why they apply legally?

It's hard to clarify his positions when he was basically throwing every word he knew around that made no legal sense and then couldn't articulate his legal reasons when asked.

But, you could follow this tweet thread for the general summary:
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,020
So the general vibe I'm getting here is that literal Lionel fucking Hutz would be a better lawyer than this guy
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,380
Last edited:

Spock

Member
Oct 27, 2017
769
LOL, someone actually said this?



It's hard to clarify his positions when he was basically throwing every word he knew around that made no legal sense and then couldn't articulate his legal reasons when asked.

But, you could follow this tweet thread for the general summary:


Much appreciated.

They don't have a position.

I'm trying to find clarification on some claim about a change made in a law by a legislature or someone who they claim cannot make said changes to the law?

Possibly involving curing ballots. I also heard something mentioned about the Constitution and differing laws?

I know they're also saying that they didn't have observers or some s*** at certain locations.

That should be a straight yes or no, true or false type answer.

I'm kind of going off bits and pieces, hence why I'm trying to find an actual lawyer or someone with more knowledge explaining what is actually being claimed and how they are true or false, etc.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,703
So can anyone square the circle between the Rudy G we saw today and the one we saw in the 80s breaking the mob.

Because honestly... I'm seriously starting to believe that the old Rudy died, and this guy is just a pale imitation.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,441
So can anyone square the circle between the Rudy G we saw today and the one we saw in the 80s breaking the mob.

Because honestly... I'm seriously starting to believe that the old Rudy died, and this guy is just a pale imitation.
For starters, he's pretty clearly had a major mental decline since then. I believe his daughter has said as much.
 

piratepwnsninja

Lead Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,811
I'm trying to find clarification on some claim about a change made in a law by a legislature or someone who they claim cannot make said changes to the law?
- This was in reference to the Secretary of State having sent out an email providing guidance for counties entering ballots onto a website that needed to be cured so that those people could come in and vote using a provisional ballot. They argued that she effectively changed state election law by doing this (question mark?)

Possibly involving curing ballots. I also heard something mentioned about the Constitution and differing laws?
- The crux of their argument is that, based on the said guidance, some counties did it while others did not, and thus they have two people whose votes did not count and they were in counties that did not, so it was 'unfair' to these two people.

I know they're also saying that they didn't have observers or some s*** at certain locations.
- Not that there weren't observers, but that their observers couldn't get close enough.


I think that's accurate, based on listening to it. Gulliani threw out a bunch of other random claims, too, that weren't in the complaint.
 

Thequietone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,052
Much appreciated.



I'm trying to find clarification on some claim about a change made in a law by a legislature or someone who they claim cannot make said changes to the law?

Possibly involving curing ballots. I also heard something mentioned about the Constitution and differing laws?

I know they're also saying that they didn't have observers or some s*** at certain locations.

That should be a straight yes or no, true or false type answer.

I'm kind of going off bits and pieces, hence why I'm trying to find an actual lawyer or someone with more knowledge explaining what is actually being claimed and how they are true or false, etc.
I think what you're referring to is the fact red counties didn't allow voters to cure (law term meaning to fix errors) their ballots while blue counties did so they want the blue counties to throw the ballots out but the judge said shouldn't you be suing the red counties for not allowing their votes to be fixed and he's like no all votes should be thrown out that needed curing.
 

Spock

Member
Oct 27, 2017
769
- This was in reference to the Secretary of State having sent out an email providing guidance for counties entering ballots onto a website that needed to be cured so that those people could come in and vote using a provisional ballot. They argued that she effectively changed state election law by doing this (question mark?)


- The crux of their argument is that, based on the said guidance, some counties did it while others did not, and thus they have two people whose votes did not count and they were in counties that did not, so it was 'unfair' to these two people.


- Not that there weren't observers, but that their observers couldn't get close enough.


I think that's accurate, based on listening to it. Gulliani threw out a bunch of other random claims, too, that weren't in the complaint.

Very much appreciated. That clarifies quite a bit and gives a better context to things.

I think what you're referring to is the fact red counties didn't allow voters to cure (law term meaning to fix errors) their ballots while blue counties did so they want the blue counties to throw the ballots out but the judge said shouldn't you be suing the red counties for not allowing their votes to be fixed and he's like no all votes should be thrown out that needed curing.

Thank you, this is not one of the positions I was familiar with so I appreciate it.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
This sounds like a real life version of My Cousin Vinny.

Nope, because as pointed out, Vinny is actually a competent attorney. My Cousin Vinny is actually pretty factual when it comes to courtroom proceedings and trial prep, barring some licenses. It's why many attorneys will say it's probably the most accurate legal film.
 

Thequietone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,052
I dont see any links so I'm not sure :/
Only way to listen was to call a phone number and listen in but it was two phone numbers with 4000 max listeners per number, so one of the lucky ERA users that got in streamed it over Twitch. Maybe they have a VOD of their stream. Other wise we'll have to read the transcript.
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,460
She took the picture. He dismissed it as worthless until he actually looked at them. He then recognized what it was and then called her to testify.

I guess in my yout I didn't realize or over time I forgot that Vinny saw the answer, but let her self discover on the stand.

I love this movie and don't get me wrong, Marisa Tomei is a beautiful woman, but Mona's fuck you attitude and car knowledge is the real attraction.

www.youtube.com

My Cousin Vinny (5/5) Movie CLIP - Automotive Expert (1992) HD

My Cousin Vinny movie clips: http://j.mp/1LDy0fmBUY THE MOVIE:FandangoNOW - https://www.fandangonow.com/details/movie/my-cousin-vinny-1992/1MVfb864a0b044c768...



I need to watch this again, but I just watched the biological clock is ticking scene and she says you promised we would get married after you won your first case. It's been 10 years at this point. Vinny is a terrible lawyer.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
I guess in my yout I didn't realize or over time I forgot that Vinny saw the answer, but let her self discover on the stand.

I love this movie and don't get me wrong, Marisa Tomei is a beautiful woman, but Mona's fuck you attitude and car knowledge is the real attraction.

I need to watch this again, but I just watched the biological clock is ticking scene and she says you promised we would get married after you won your first case. It's been 10 years at this point. Vinny is a terrible lawyer.

Vinny had to take the bar like 10 times, that's why it took so long for him to win his first case. He couldn't practice. The movie is his actual first case.
 

Mett

Member
Oct 29, 2017
673
I guess in my yout I didn't realize or over time I forgot that Vinny saw the answer, but let her self discover on the stand.

I love this movie and don't get me wrong, Marisa Tomei is a beautiful woman, but Mona's fuck you attitude and car knowledge is the real attraction.

www.youtube.com

My Cousin Vinny (5/5) Movie CLIP - Automotive Expert (1992) HD

My Cousin Vinny movie clips: http://j.mp/1LDy0fmBUY THE MOVIE:FandangoNOW - https://www.fandangonow.com/details/movie/my-cousin-vinny-1992/1MVfb864a0b044c768...



I need to watch this again, but I just watched the biological clock is ticking scene and she says you promised we would get married after you won your first case. It's been 10 years at this point. Vinny is a terrible lawyer.

I think that case is his first case though, he just couldn't pass the tests until his sixth time, iirc.
 

The Llama

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,026
I think that case is his first case though, he just couldn't pass the tests until his sixth time, iirc.
Isn't it heavily implied (if not made pretty clear) that he never actually passed the bar, hence the running joke about the judge not being able to find any information about him when he calls the clerk in NY?
 

Mett

Member
Oct 29, 2017
673
Isn't it heavily implied (if not made pretty clear) that he never actually passed the bar, hence the running joke about the judge not being able to find any information about him when he calls the clerk in NY?

movies.stackexchange.com

What was Vinny's motivation for lying to Judge Haller?

In the movie My Cousin Vinny, there is a scene in which Vinny lies about his "successful" legal career to Judge Haller. Later in the movie, he worries that this lie will get him arrested to the ex...

I found this here that can explain it better, he was just trying to make himself look better.
 

RiOrius

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,080
Nope, because as pointed out, Vinny is actually a competent attorney. My Cousin Vinny is actually pretty factual when it comes to courtroom proceedings and trial prep, barring some licenses. It's why many attorneys will say it's probably the most accurate legal film.

Vinny was good at arguing, but didn't know proper procedure in the state (Alabama IIRC) because he was from out of state, so he fucked up a lot during the first half of the movie. But when time came to cross-examine witnesses he shone because that was his strength. Not the law, just being a smart guy who thinks things through (including a demonstrated curiosity and good recall, eg learning about grits when he arrived and applying that knowledge in trial to establish a timeline and thereby refute one witness's testimony). Plus, logically he must've had the same level of automotive expertise that Mona had to see the tire marks and know what they implied (he even was able to tell the sheriff what car to look for before conferring with her).

But like, the dude didn't know about discovery. He tried to schmooze the prosecutor to get access to files he was entitled to. He wasn't knowledgeable about the law. He was street smart, not a competent attorney.
Isn't it heavily implied (if not made pretty clear) that he never actually passed the bar, hence the running joke about the judge not being able to find any information about him when he calls the clerk in NY?
He passed the bar eventually, but was embarrassed that it took him so long, and that he'd never actually tried a case. Plus IIRC he needed the judge's approval to practice in that state, so he wanted to talk up his experience, so he lied about having tried real cases (including murders).
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
Vinny was good at arguing, but didn't know proper procedure in the state (Alabama IIRC) because he was from out of state, so he fucked up a lot during the first half of the movie. But when time came to cross-examine witnesses he shone because that was his strength. Not the law, just being a smart guy who thinks things through (including a demonstrated curiosity and good recall, eg learning about grits when he arrived and applying that knowledge in trial to establish a timeline and thereby refute one witness's testimony). Plus, logically he must've had the same level of automotive expertise that Mona had to see the tire marks and know what they implied (he even was able to tell the sheriff what car to look for before conferring with her).

But like, the dude didn't know about discovery. He tried to schmooze the prosecutor to get access to files he was entitled to. He wasn't knowledgeable about the law. He was street smart, not a competent attorney.

He passed the bar eventually, but was embarrassed that it took him so long, and that he'd never actually tried a case. Plus IIRC he needed the judge's approval to practice in that state, so he wanted to talk up his experience, so he lied about having tried real cases (including murders).

This is the thing that always gets me, but that's clearly movie license. He HAD to know about discovery, he took the bar 10 times and eventually passed. Discovery is all over the bar exam. That's the one part I always cringe at. It's not some obscure thing, it's basic pre-trial preprepation.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
I can't get over how hard they're pushing the "mail-in voting is pure fraud" when the President himself and his entire family voted by mail in this very election.
The argument is basically that the democrat votes should be thrown out.

Its pure stupidity and its really disgusting how there is zero leadership in the Republican party.

Our country looks like a total joke.

This is the shit you see in countries that don't have strong democratic institutions. Hopefully that is not where we are headed in the near future.
 

Stencil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,378
USA
I love how much My Cousin Vinny discussion is happening in this topic.

Any major updates about the actual case tho?
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
Oh....oh my.

This is whack. Not wiggity whack. Just the regular kind.

You truly have to appreciate how monstrously stupid Rudy is here. The judge could easily destroy him but instead let's Rudy tie his own noose.

Judge asks him if he should apply strict scrutiny here, a standard that would greatly favor the Trump legal team. Rudy being the dumbass that he is has no idea what he's talking about despite it being very basic con law. So, he bullshits and says "normal" scrutiny should apply, something that doesn't exist.

Now, the judge being extremely kind doesn't embarass Rudy and attempts to parse his nonsense reply inferring that Rudy means "rational basis" as the level of scrutiny. This would be the standard that is HIGHLY deferential to the government, you know the thing Rudy shouldn't want. Thus, the judge is asks how the government doesn't simply win under rational basis? Rudy, again not knowing a damn thing, just replies that their actions aren't "rational."

Complete buffoon.
 

Thequietone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,052
I love how much My Cousin Vinny discussion is happening in this topic.

Any major updates about the actual case tho?
Judge would have thrown it out today based on what he said but Rudy was verbally arguing something different than what they filed on paper so if he threw it out it gives them wiggle room for appeal, so he told them they need to file what they verbally argued on paper ASAP. As soon as there is no grounds for appeal they'll throw it out. Just like all the other cases it'll be thrown out based on the facts they have no evidence. Even if they miraculously push this case beyond the vote certification date it won't stop the certification as no judge would file an injunction after the election happened.