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Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
I'm only halfway through TR2 myself, but I still remember the centaurs with grenade bazookas in TR1 that would shoot you while you try to get out of the water. Is it worse than that?

First few seconds of the very first level: you do a step forward, you're starting to slide down and out of nowhere there are spikes you have to jump over. You jump too late: you're dead. You jump too soon: you're dead. Those centaurs are nothing compared to that because at least they are a) a boss fight, b) a couple of levels into the game.

EDIT: To remember the first level I've just watched the let's play of it on YouTube. To add to the description of how cruel the game can be: while you are sliding down, you can notice a flat space on the side of the slide with some items laying there (a health pack and some ammo). With some skills you can jump there (but you still need to know it's even there first, because you can't just stop sliding or go back up there). And when you start picking up the health pack, the screen starts to shake: it's a boulder that rolls down and lands just where the health pack is/was. So if you don't move in time, you end up dead. Again: first minutes of the game.
 
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allintospace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
72
I've been slowly working my way through Tomb Raider 3 (PC) over the last few months and I've been enjoying it more than I expected. I loved the India levels, Nevada was just fine and the South Pacific levels are proving to me really enjoyable. TR3 has felt brutal at times and without the luxury of saving anywhere, I'm sure I would be tearing my hair out. With only save crystals this game must have been hellish. =/
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Well made games have shortcuts unlocked at the top of a massive platforming trek so that if you fall down later you have a quick way back up. Sigh.

Not that this causes me to lose much progress since I can just reload my save and all I've done since that save is stumble around trying to see what the hell I'm supposed to do.

2 switches in the underwater pool. One unlocks a gate that just gives me ammo nothing else. The other unlocks a gate that has another underwater switch in it which seemingly does nothing? Gate at the top of this tunnel of water still shut I see no switch for it anywhere in this water.

Tried exploring the land area in this area nothing. There's a section with a ladder that goes down and a chain in the middle holding a platform thing at the bottom. Nothing here no switches or items. I need to find a detonator I assume to blow the tnt in the area a bit back at the top of the platforming section. Can't find anything so far.

I dunno this game is confusing.
 
Dec 7, 2018
238
Great memories with this game, I was the only one in my class that finished it so i explained to everybody what to do in some parts, figuring out the antartica levels was no joke as 12 years old.

And I didn't mind the difficulty that much, I took it as a challenge to overcome, but I was a big TR fan back then.
 

Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
The other unlocks a gate that has another underwater switch in it which seemingly does nothing? Gate at the top of this tunnel of water still shut I see no switch for it anywhere in this water.

If this is the water tunnel next the dam-like structure then that switch definitely should have opened that door. Maybe try using it again?
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
I hate the save system in this game so much. You never know when death will suddenly strike. This wasn't what I'd call an unfair death. My bad. Was trying to jump somewhere accidentally went in to the electric fence. Happens. But I lost a looooooot of progress. I hadn't saved at all since my last update. I can easily get back to where I was but it's just annoyingly time consuming.

Look, either have set checkpoint saves like TR1 or have unlimited saves wherever. The mix of both just makes for a bad time. I never know when the right time to save is with this system and it causes frustration like this.

Funny thing is immediately before going for my jump I almost did choose to save but thought.....nah level is probably nearly over and even if this jump goes wrong this isn't high enough to kill me anyway. I'll be fine. Then I was sad.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,783
I hate the save system in this game so much. You never know when death will suddenly strike. This wasn't what I'd call an unfair death. My bad. Was trying to jump somewhere accidentally went in to the electric fence. Happens. But I lost a looooooot of progress. I hadn't saved at all since my last update. I can easily get back to where I was but it's just annoyingly time consuming.

Look, either have set checkpoint saves like TR1 or have unlimited saves wherever. The mix of both just makes for a bad time. I never know when the right time to save is with this system and it causes frustration like this.

Funny thing is immediately before going for my jump I almost did choose to save but thought.....nah level is probably nearly over and even if this jump goes wrong this isn't high enough to kill me anyway. I'll be fine. Then I was sad.
IIRC, the save crystals were actually a response to fans complaining that Tomb Raider 2's "save anywhere as much as you want with multiple save files!" system made the game too easy and wanting save crystals back. The only reason they didn't implement the save crystals the same way on PC as the PSX version is they ran out of dev time.
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
IIRC, the save crystals were actually a response to fans complaining that Tomb Raider 2's "save anywhere as much as you want with multiple save files!" system made the game too easy and wanting save crystals back.

Couldn't they simply choose NOT to save anywhere to keep the challenge for themselves and leave the feature for others? Because Tomb Raider is the kind of game where every bad step can kill you so having save anywhere system is really helpful (especially when the level design is so cruel).

The only reason they didn't implement the save crystals the same way on PC as the PSX version is they ran out of dev time.
I played TR3 long time ago on PC but I remember save crystals were still there even though they weren't required for saving. What was their purpose then?
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,783
Couldn't they simply choose NOT to save anywhere to keep the challenge for themselves and leave the feature for others? Because Tomb Raider is the kind of game where every bad step can kill you so having save anywhere system is really helpful (especially when the level design is so cruel).


I played TR3 long time ago on PC but I remember save crystals were still there even though they weren't required for saving. What was their purpose then?
In the PC version they just refill your health when you collect them. They were meant to function like in the PSX version but they ran out of time to code them to work that way.
 

Deleted member 9237

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,789
I hate the save system in this game so much. You never know when death will suddenly strike. This wasn't what I'd call an unfair death. My bad. Was trying to jump somewhere accidentally went in to the electric fence. Happens. But I lost a looooooot of progress. I hadn't saved at all since my last update. I can easily get back to where I was but it's just annoyingly time consuming.

Look, either have set checkpoint saves like TR1 or have unlimited saves wherever. The mix of both just makes for a bad time. I never know when the right time to save is with this system and it causes frustration like this.

Funny thing is immediately before going for my jump I almost did choose to save but thought.....nah level is probably nearly over and even if this jump goes wrong this isn't high enough to kill me anyway. I'll be fine. Then I was sad.
I honestly think I would've disliked the game had I played it with the PSX save system as well
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
5,822
Tomb Raider 3 was my birthday present back then and a huge disappointment. Controls and difficulty killed any interest in it, I remember using cheat codes just to reach the last level and still not managing to complete the game. Sometimes I think I was too young but during the same days I finished Burai Fighter on the Gameboy and Batman Return of Joker, those were super hard.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
Tomb Raider 3 is my least favorite of all the PS1 Tomb Raider titles for all the reasons mentioned in here.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Finished Nevada Desert. Definitely one of the best levels so far. I tell you what though that switch on the wall that instantly kills you if you try to pull it is such a dick move. Luckily I saved very close to it so I wasn't set back far. But that shit isn't good design. They could have made that switch not able to be pulled yet without instantly killing the player.
 

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,381
Washington
This thread is a trip, and I'm eagerly awaiting new updates. I love the TR series but 3 has always been a balls busting nightmare I could never finish legitimately.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
This toilet is disgusting.

And that guard is an idiot. He literally opened the door to let me out...

Also it's too dark and they took my flares.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Ah there we go bullshit death because it was too dark to see some sort of death trap in front of me. Wonderful!

God I can't wait to get through this so I can move on to The Last Revelation, a genuinely great game.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So that's the gimmick of this level then. INSTANT DEATH BARBED WIRE EVERYWHERE AND DO IT BLINDFOLDED LOLOLOLOL

This game is a joke.

To clarify after my first death in pitch black made me slide down a slope to instant death, I was prepared and walked to the edge. Still couldn't see fuck all and I was forced to make a blind running jump and hope for the best. Survived. Made it to the end of the hallway walked through barbed wire unharmed to pull the switch at the end which opened a trapdoor. So I climb down a ladder in pitch black. Climb down as far as it lets me. Can't see jack shit. Had to make a blind judgement. Dropped down oops barbed wire you couldn't see death lol.

Awful game design guys. They are literally asking me to play a game with instant death traps blind.
 
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Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
You're definitely supposed to be able to see there, but, as others have said, another problem with the PS version on top of the saving is that the default brightness is screwed up and too dark.
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,975
TR3 + The Lost Artifact, on PC with save-anywhere => one of my all-time most cherished gaming experiences

Holds up today IMHO (once you master the so-called "tank" controls)

Without save-anywhere though? Eeep, I wouldn't even bother lmao
 
Mar 30, 2019
9,066
I'm actually surprised you have still kept at it with how painful it sounds for you. It is entertaining to read the updates, but it's best to stop when you've had enough. Unless you like the pain...
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,923
TR3 + The Lost Artifact, on PC with save-anywhere => one of my all-time most cherished gaming experiences

Holds up today IMHO (once you master the so-called "tank" controls)

Without save-anywhere though? Eeep, I wouldn't even bother lmao
Same today, I still love it!

I actually played the game through originally on PSOne and it was a ridiculously tough experience. I had to resort to using the all items code to get unlimited save crystals. That did help considerably.

I've only ever played it since on PC though. As you say, so much better!
 

samwyse

Member
Oct 28, 2017
683
I played the shit out of it on PC. Yep, it's difficult. I got far, but I don't think I ever finished the game. I've briefly played a Tomb Raider game on PS1 and Saturn. I would hate playing them on gamepad. The originals need the accuracy of a keyboard. Also having your face close to the screen helps timing all the crazy stuff.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,140
This is crazy, tomb raider 3 is the only tomb raider i actually finished as a kid. Should have tried harder on the others i guess. loved all the games but this was the only one i saw through to the end
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Sigh. I was hopeful that I was beyond the gotcha instant death out of nowhere lulz portion of this level.

High Security Compound feels like quite a weak level. Lose all your weapons levels in TR games I often am quite fond of. Natla's Mines and Offshore Rig are great. Here though I'm just not feeling it.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Christ this stage NEEDS to give you flares. Like what is the fucking logic in making a stage so dark and not give the player flares to offset it? Borderline unplayable especially on Vita where I'm also fighting glare.

Not counting High Security Compound as I will not completely judge it until I finish it, my current stage ranking from best to worst is

River Ganges
Nevada Desert
Jungle
Caves of Kaliya
Temple Ruins of I Wanna Be The Tomb Raider

But right now High Security Compound is looking to be second bottom.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Trololololol

Why does this game do this to me? So I move the aerial to reveal the hole in the floor at the top of the structure. I look down. Hmm long fall can't really see what's at the bottom. Water? No safe way down and this must be where I'm supposed to go. Gonna have to make a blind drop and hope I do land in water. Here goes....

Yay water no instant dea....

Immediately gets cut in pieces by a fan in the water.

This game guys. This game.
 

*Splinter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,087
I've always remembered TR3 being my favourite of the series, but I'm pretty sure when I played them as a kid I used strategy guides which, yeah, kinda changes a game full of unavoidable instant death traps.

IIRC, the save crystals were actually a response to fans complaining that Tomb Raider 2's "save anywhere as much as you want with multiple save files!" system made the game too easy and wanting save crystals back. The only reason they didn't implement the save crystals the same way on PC as the PSX version is they ran out of dev time.
A harsh lesson in not listening to fans :p
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Got tired of repeating the same section over and over again only to die at the same water part so I've used an extra save crystal right at the water drop.

I feel like there must be some way to switch off the fan because there's no way for me to fight the current.
 

Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
Doesn't Vita have brightness control? You can probably up it a bit to make the brightness closer to what it's "supposed" to be.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Gone in the tunnel in the water in the corner but that just led to a room with a guard with a gun in it and a dead end with a closed door with no way to open it. I even luckily glitched the guard out so it stopped moving which gave me free reign to explore the room without worrying about him but theres definitely nothing in here no switches or anything.

And I spent a lot of time in the main water room looking for any other tunnels or underwater switches. All that's there is the water tunnel at the bottom with the death fan(and the lol fuck you alluring save crystal).

No wait here we go! Once again darkness is the true villain of this level. Pitch black blinding the fact there's a non sloped platform here in the main room to jump to.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
I'm sure I'm near the end of the stage I can feel it. If I can just find where this damn last yellow security pass goes I assume that'll be the end of the stage. Can't see anywhere this can possibly go.

But in my attempts to find where it goes I did find a secret which had a grenade launcher.

You know that feeling when you hear the secret chime and you cant help but groan? Got that pretty bad. Thought I found out where I was supposed to go then got the secret chime of doom.

Wow. It was right in front of my face. Don't know how I missed it.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
There we go High Security Compound done. I feel like that stage would have been alright if the lighting was good. So much of that stage was frustrating simply because I couldn't see. It still would have had its annoyances regardless such as the impossible to avoid water fan trap, but a lot of frustration would have been avoided. And the game only giving you flares after you no longer need them was like.....why?

Anyways on to Area 51. The name of the level has me intrigued. I hope to see Aliens or something.
 

Deleted member 9237

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,789
What exactly are you referring to? The level to level backtracking?
That too, but I was thinking more of the kind of more complicated item system and how it interacts with the puzzles, as well as the puzzles themselves. At some point I think you need to fetch a hook, so you can grab something through some metal bars for example. I should replay it again to give you more concrete examples, but last time I did I came away with a different feeling than from the first three.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
That too, but I was thinking more of the kind of more complicated item system and how it interacts with the puzzles, as well as the puzzles themselves. At some point I think you need to fetch a hook, so you can grab something through some metal bars for example. I should replay it again to give you more concrete examples, but last time I did I came away with a different feeling than from the first three.
I know what you mean and I remember that exact puzzle. Funny the addition of item combining is something that I saw as a major positive addition.
 

Scanna

Member
Nov 27, 2017
177
Never went past the first level as a kid. Was my first and last TR since the reboot arrived because of that.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Playing Area 51. I was having a pretty good time with it. Then I died out of nowhere and was set back a fair bit from my last save. Goddammit if the platform will electrocute me to death instantly if I climb on it can you at least make that platform look really damn dangerous? Nothing about looking at that screamed "this will kill you"

Goddammit.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,783
Playing Area 51. I was having a pretty good time with it. Then I died out of nowhere and was set back a fair bit from my last save. Goddammit if the platform will electrocute me to death instantly if I climb on it can you at least make that platform look really damn dangerous? Nothing about looking at that screamed "this will kill you"

Goddammit.
But the "platform" was a monorail track with animated electricy flowing on top.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
But the "platform" was a monorail track with animated electricy flowing on top.
Yeah I see that now just came back to say that. Viewing it from above it looks electrified. From below it just looked like something to climb on.

I'll allow this one. An extra second taken to move the camera to see if the top was safe would have avoided it. No matter.
 
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I Wanna Be The Guy
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
Ok now THAT was pure bullshit. Literally pulled the rug from under me. Lets take this floor away from the player as they walk on it to instantly kill them lulz

I wouldn't be so bothered about this stuff if you had unlimited saves.
 
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