• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
You speak for all black women? I assume it is a black voice actor playing the role, and therefore the mannerisms are authentic to the actor.
Funny you should mention that. There's this thing called voice direction. And this was incredibly racist voice direction. Here's a transcript of the actress actually talking:

"What is the difference between Medea and my blackness? I think the issue with Deus Ex, again I did not have a visual of the character I was playing. Possibly because the roles I played were not major. So the idea that there are characters for priority does not exist, AS if I were the main character who is allowed to develop this."


Hmmmmm


Hmmmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I mean surely she has a positive opinion on the character after all she played the char----


"Personally I was under the impression that the voice that seems to be under the stereotypical depiction of blackness was the voice of the homeless character."


Ok ok, well maybe i'm just making assumptions and projecting. Maybe i'm misinterpreting her words and she really DID put a lot of herself and her mannerisms into the ro---


"Again. After the first character they called me in for, I could've made a better match as to who that lifeless character (Letitia) was and brought to life if these character's were of value to the story and the director's 'point of view.' My character was not that important. And that is where the industry fails actors. I was payed a full days wage for working, no more than, an hour and a half. I would've gladly stayed for eight hours to bring these characters to life."

🤔 Next time you decide to wag your finger at people taking issue with this kinda shit maybe do some research first. 🤔
 
Last edited:

Payoneku

Banned
Nov 16, 2018
5
User Banned (Permanent): Concern trolling in sensitive subject thread; account still in junior phase
You do pepole realise that you are shitting on world that is created by afro american who is constantly helping in game development? It's a little bit racist if you ask me.
 

motherless

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,282
The creators of Witcher 3 creating another game with poor game play is not exactly something people should be surprised with. I can't judge until I play it for myself but I was hopeful they would take this game more seriously and put effort into the game play unlike Witcher 3. Witcher 3 is a shame because it dose many things right and if they had put effort into the game play it would be a top tier game.
 

GreatFenris

Banned
Apr 6, 2019
404
For the most part it is not dystopian like 1984 or Brave New World but Philip K Dick's early works, specifically Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, had a dystopian feel to them. Same with Alfred Bester, John Brunner, Lewis Shiner and more recently (if we can call 1992 recent) something like Snow Crash by Stephenson.
Hmm, maybe I should read some of those. Cyberpunk to me sort of started with Snowcrash/Neuromancer.

You do pepole realise that you are shitting on world that is created by afro american who is constantly helping in game development? It's a little bit racist if you ask me.
To quote one of my best friends: lolwut?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
You do pepole realise that you are shitting on world that is created by afro american who is constantly helping in game development? It's a little bit racist if you ask me.
This is literally the same thing as saying, "Well I have a black friend. Therefore nothing I say or do can never be problematic." Somehow I doubt it was Mike Pondsmith's idea to make the Voodoo Boys predominantly black when in his own work they're predominantly white. I'm also 100000000000% sure it wasn't his idea to use "ebonics" for subtitles by replacing they with "dey" and them with "dem."

Well I quite like the Allies and usually agree with their opinions whereas my opinion of RPS is, as I said, "lol". So in this case, yep!
So what's your opinion on the stereotyping?
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,813
The bullet spongey gameplay I could really do without.

My least favorite part of the gameplay of Destiny and Borderlands. Kind of takes away from the impact of your weapons.
 
OP
OP
derFeef

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,354
Austria
You do pepole realise that you are shitting on world that is created by afro american who is constantly helping in game development? It's a little bit racist if you ask me.
We aren't shitting on Cyberpunk. We are critizising the representation of this world in this video game. And I am pretty sure you exaggerate the influence Pondsmith has on the game's development. Also bad joke.

Well I quite like the Allies and usually agree with their opinions whereas my opinion of RPS is, as I said, "lol". So in this case, yep!
Fair. But you think RPS is just lying? I tend to believe bad things that get called out because they stick out and SHOULD get adressed. Weren't Allies jumping up from their seats, screaming and hugging themselves when last year the Cyperpunk trailer came up? Not sure if I would trust their neutrality there (if this was this game, can't remember sorry)
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Gameplay and controls has never been CDPRs forte, I guess nothing has changed. The combat in the Witcher series has been, and continues to be, subpar.
 

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
17,967
The game's described as "Deus Ex"-like... and having your gun damage tied to your gun skill will generally mean the gunplay won't feel as meaty (the only real notable exception is the aforementioned E.Y.E.- Divine Cybermancy- for all its MANY, many faults, the game was an amazing "badass simulator" FPS-RPG).

As for the diversity commentary.... sigh. Yeah, as someone coming from even further East then CDPRED and living in Canada for most of my life... I'm not wholly surprised.

Given that Witcher 3 did a pretty solid job mixing its sex appeal with actually strong independent female characters, I'm hopeful we will actually get more nuance in the whole game-as the previews mention, we are looking at a run-down, marginalized area for the demo-and the main point of it is to show off flashy (if not very punchy, apparently) combat- so I can see why there wouldn't be much focus on other aspects, if your main goal's to show off "the ACTION "

We will see, I'm sure. I was perfectly all right ignoring the diversity complaints levelled at Witcher 3 (because we were dealing with an IP that was rooted in Medieval North-Central Europe), but with a West Coast American city I'd expect things to be a lot different. The ongoing existence of ethnic enclaves isn't that far-fetched, but if PoCs only exist in those, and if race defines the person's social class throughout the game... then yeah, that'd be a serious issue.
 

MegaMix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
Gameplay for RPGs are focused on the roleplaying aspects. Aspects like gunplay are secondary thought at best. For the best example of this look at Alpha Protocol.
 

Darkstorne

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,812
England
The bullet spongey gameplay I could really do without.

My least favorite part of the gameplay of Destiny and Borderlands. Kind of takes away from the impact of your weapons.
This is the part I'm least worried about, because mods will fix this on PC. Double all damage dealt and received, and I'll be good. Hopefully they'll even add that option into the difficulty sliders so console gamers can benefit.

Stereotyping, shitty subtitles, and transphobic in-game marketing though? That's a huge problem.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
Witcher 3 ain't exactly the beacon of great gameplay yet it was still lauded as one of the best game simply because the writing and graphics was superb. Add in the immersive lore and options and you've got yourself a great game still.

I'm not expecting much for Cyberpunk but as long as they nail those above, I'm willing to overlook the flaws.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Witcher 3's combat was awful.

Shooter RPG's tend to have really bad gunplay simply because they have to shoe horn it into a genre with a specific type of play and system.

The last Shooter RPG I played was Division and the bland bullet spongey gunplay really turned me off.
 

Payoneku

Banned
Nov 16, 2018
5
We aren't shitting on Cyberpunk. We are critizising the representation of this world in this video game. And I am pretty sure you exaggerate the influence Pondsmith has on the game's development. Also bad joke.
Mike Pondsmith can exit game development like anytime if he will start to think this isn't "his game". Till ten, It's as his game as CD Project Reds
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,813
This is the part I'm least worried about, because mods will fix this on PC. Double all damage dealt and received, and I'll be good. Hopefully they'll even add that option into the difficulty sliders so console gamers can benefit.

Stereotyping, shitty subtitles, and transphobic in-game marketing though? That's a huge problem.

Here's hoping the shitty subtitles can also get fixed through a mod and the transphobia in-game ads removed by the developers (and not having them rely on a mod team to do it)
 

Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,236
I'm starting to think CDPR's consistent and regular faux pas are not coincidence or by accident.
 

moustascheman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,661
Canada
How is it that nearly a decade that after Deus Ex was trashed for it's ridiculously racist stereotypes another company comes and does it worse, while also utilizing a cyberpunk setting no less. Why are game devs so fucking creatively bankrupt when it comes to cyberpunk and PoC?
I feel like part of the reason is because entertainment media is so predominantly white that minority voices are just drowned out. While things are getting better for movies and TV, video games are lagging behind. I also imagine that a good deal of white writers haven't actually met a PoC in real life, especially if they live in places where there's a low amount of PoC to begin with, and thus are just regurgitating the same tired stereotypes they've seen in other media. A clear example of this would be the infamous Sikh taxi driver stereotype we saw in one of the earlier trailers which isn't even accurate to Sikh communities today, let alone in a future with self-driving cars.
 

LabRat

Member
Mar 16, 2018
4,229

that's what i was worried about. there is nothing... NOTHING worse than a shooter with weak gunplay. i know that cyberpunk is an rpg, but if it has fps elements then those are going to be compared to the best of the genre. i have no idea why they think this borderlands style combat with damage numbers and enemy health bars is the right way to go. if i shoot someone with my cyberpunk machine gun i want visual feedback and ragdoll physics. combat in the tabletop rpg was lethal as fuck and that's how it should be in the videogame.

on the other hand i'm not sure if i can 100% trust gaming sites with their impressions. last year they all hyped up the demo as the best thing since sliced bread which was a little bit too much and now the same might happen just in reverse.
 

ResidentDuke

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
37
User banned (permanent): trolling over a series of posts
ha cmon.....

Lets kill peoples and have fun.... oh wait they are not progressive !!! (Cancel preorder)
 
Last edited:

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,573
Thank God Vampire is coming out next year too. Looks like Cyberpunk gonna be a mess.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
I feel like part of the reason is because entertainment media is so predominantly white that minority voices are just drowned out. While things are getting better for movies and TV, video games are lagging behind. I also imagine that a good deal of white writers haven't actually met a PoC in real life, especially if they live in places where there's a low amount of PoC to begin with, and thus are just regurgitating the same tired stereotypes they've seen in other media. A clear example of this would be the infamous Sikh taxi driver stereotype we saw in one of the earlier trailers which isn't even accurate to Sikh communities today, let alone in a future with self-driving cars.
Sounds about right.
 

Sax

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,321
So what's your opinion on the stereotyping?

It's disappointing but it's not going to stop me from buying and likely enjoying the game, for now I can hold out hope that there's still a while til April 2020 and that dialog/depictions can get tweaked or straight up changed for the better.

Fair. But you think RPS is just lying? I tend to believe bad things that get called out because they stick out and SHOULD get adressed. Weren't Allies jumping up from their seats, screaming and hugging themselves when last year the Cyperpunk trailer came up? Not sure if I would trust their neutrality there (if this was this game, can't remember sorry)

I don't think they're lying, but that it doesn't look good to them doesn't mean it can't look good to others, and most other impressions of the gameplay out there fairly positive. About the Allies' hype levels, they can get pretty high and they're definitely riding a high for Cyberpunk but it wasn't quite on those levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFkqWsWYkz4 just a bunch of wows and whoas and claps.
 

Sinder

Banned
Jul 24, 2018
7,576
RPS in 2019 shouldn't be considered more credible than PCGamer. They're a hot take factory looking to put a negative spin on literally everything while throwing out an "rps recommended" once a month for appearances. All of the staff they had was decent is now gone.
 

Trice

Banned
Nov 3, 2018
2,653
Croatia
So who do we believe on combat and gunplay? Do we flip-flop on every article and impresssion piece that comes out? Could've posted dozen others that say otherwise.

RPS have never filled me with trust. I tend to think of them as contrarian hot-takers.
 

Payoneku

Banned
Nov 16, 2018
5
You guys really have some serious problem with your brains. Someone, here it's Mike Pondsmith, made an universe with transphobic and xenophobic society which is set in future. No one cares you feel bad with shitting on transgender pepole in this game, IT'S A VIDEO GAME, AND IT'S A PART OF THIS UNIVERSE. It's not a real world. Oh, you don't like this universe? You don't buy it, simple as that. Eleven pages because someone is making their jobs right, good lord.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Gameplay for RPGs are focused on the roleplaying aspects. Aspects like gunplay are secondary thought at best. For the best example of this look at Alpha Protocol.
I don't see why this is an excuse for bad gunplay or melee systems at all. Alpha Protocol also had really terrible gunplay. You can have meaty gunplay and RPG-elements. Like increased damage with better gear, aim-assistance with better skills, elements and status changes and so on.
 

ResidentDuke

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
37
You guys really have some serious problem with your brains. Someone, here it's Mike Pondsmith, made an universe with transphobic and xenophobic society which is set in future. No one cares you feel bad with shitting on transgender pepole in this game, IT'S A VIDEO GAME, AND IT'S A PART OF THIS UNIVERSE. It's not a real world. Oh, you don't like this universe? You don't buy it, simple as that. Eleven pages because someone is making their jobs right, good lord.
this !

Vote with your wallet.
 

Antiax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,652
I don't see why this is an excuse for bad gunplay or melee systems at all. Alpha Protocol also had really terrible gunplay. You can have meaty gunplay and RPG-elements. Like increased damage with better gear, aim-assistance with better skills, elements and status changes and so on.

Are you aware of the fact that it's only one opinion piece which is negative about gameplay mechanics, shooting in particular? There are many others which are satisfied with what they've seen so far.
 

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
Are you aware of the fact that it's only one opinion piece which is negative about gameplay mechanics, shooting in particular? There are many others which are satisfied with what they've seen so far.
Weren't you gonna leave this thread? I distinctly remember you saying that on the first page.
 

MegaMix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
I don't see why this is an excuse for bad gunplay or melee systems at all. Alpha Protocol also had really terrible gunplay. You can have meaty gunplay and RPG-elements. Like increased damage with better gear, aim-assistance with better skills, elements and status changes and so on.
Almost everything you listed would make the bad. Aim-assistance?

Regardless there is only so much a developer can focus on at once.
 

Chronos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,203
that's what i was worried about. there is nothing... NOTHING worse than a shooter with weak gunplay. i know that cyberpunk is an rpg, but if it has fps elements then those are going to be compared to the best of the genre. i have no idea why they think this borderlands style combat with damage numbers and enemy health bars is the right way to go. if i shoot someone with my cyberpunk machine gun i want visual feedback and ragdoll physics. combat in the tabletop rpg was lethal as fuck and that's how it should be in the videogame.

on the other hand i'm not sure if i can 100% trust gaming sites with their impressions. last year they all hyped up the demo as the best thing since sliced bread which was a little bit too much and now the same might happen just in reverse.

Meh, good gunplay is obviously preferable, but for a game like this, it is probably lowest on my priorities or wants for them to polish and get right. If we were talking about a PvP game, it would register a lot higher, but I don't really care, I just want to explore the world and role play with great story telling and that is what CDPR excels at.
 

Andrew-Ryan

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
645
The Matrix. Blade Runner. Ghost in the Shell.
I can keep going.
Blade Runner doesn't have a single black character in it, despite being based in los angeles. All the replicants are also white. The only other race is Asians (bar the one Latino character) and you have no mixing between the races. The Asians are basically the poor peasants that run the various stalls etc.. and all the people in power are exclusively white. I mean you talked about a "typical power fantasy future stuff for targeting a perceived straight white male audience" for CyberPunk 2077 but it's never been clearer than in something like Blade Runner.

Correct me if I'm wrong (since it's been a while since I watched it) but I'm pretty sure Ghost in the Shell has zero racial diversity as well.

Not that I think either of these films are doing it nefariously anything, I'm just pointing out that if CDPR had followed these cyberpunk approaches which so many people seem to be in love with in other mediums then they'd be crucified even more than they already are.

Again, I want to make it clear that I have no problem with any of the films you listed or CyberPunk 2077.
 

Atisha

Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,331
In a simlar vein to fromsofts Sekiro, because Cyberpunk is so far out of their comfort zone, i'm gonna have to wait and see, not only for the reviews, but also the release omg hype to dye down to get a better appraisal of what i'll be getting for my money.
 

ShutterMunster

Art Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,446
You guys really have some serious problem with your brains. Someone, here it's Mike Pondsmith, made an universe with transphobic and xenophobic society which is set in future. No one cares you feel bad with shitting on transgender pepole in this game, IT'S A VIDEO GAME, AND IT'S A PART OF THIS UNIVERSE. It's not a real world. Oh, you don't like this universe? You don't buy it, simple as that. Eleven pages because someone is making their jobs right, good lord.

Someone's trying to get banned...
 

moustascheman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,661
Canada
You guys really have some serious problem with your brains. Someone, here it's Mike Pondsmith, made an universe with transphobic and xenophobic society which is set in future. No one cares you feel bad with shitting on transgender pepole in this game, IT'S A VIDEO GAME, AND IT'S A PART OF THIS UNIVERSE. It's not a real world. Oh, you don't like this universe? You don't buy it, simple as that. Eleven pages because someone is making their jobs right, good lord.
Okay, first off people in this thread aren't complaining about the tabletop game. Despite the fact that Pondsmith's original game does have problematic elements such as the "feminazis" which were mentioned previously in the thread, that's not what the overwhelming majority of people in this thread are talking about. The actual subject is the game catering to stereotypes, which includes purposefully changing its source material to do so (see turning the voodoo boys from being predominantly white to black).

Second, just because a work is fictional doesn't mean it can't have real life consequences for actual minorities. Like, this shouldn't even have to be explained to people in the year 2019.
But clearly it seems you don't actually care about how minorities feel anyways.
 
Last edited:

Dongs Macabre

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,284
You guys really have some serious problem with your brains. Someone, here it's Mike Pondsmith, made an universe with transphobic and xenophobic society which is set in future. No one cares you feel bad with shitting on transgender pepole in this game, IT'S A VIDEO GAME, AND IT'S A PART OF THIS UNIVERSE. It's not a real world. Oh, you don't like this universe? You don't buy it, simple as that. Eleven pages because someone is making their jobs right, good lord.
Oh shit sorry didn't realize that anything and everything is okay as long as it's a fictional universe. Shit pack it up everyone sorry sorry can't be critical about fiction.
 

oxymoron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
821
I am sometimes confused about how we can reconcile the legitimate call for a better and fairer representation of all races, genders, cultures and the artistic representation of a dystopian society (or, if that matter, even a realistic society) which will most likely include a depiction of it's wrongs.

I know I wouldn't stand for anything making the "apology" of racist, homo/trans-phobic or even violence. But on the other hand, I'm quite at ease with having games full of a**holes if this is part of the world. The "dem" is maybe a bit too much here for me as it comes from the protag'. The "ad" with the trans looks more like a satire of excessive marketing deviance from this world though.

I don't know, I don't have a clear answer to that, but I am actually less troubled by that than a lot of the satire pieces in a GTA V for instance.

It's a really hard question! My thinking is that when you're working in a medium where the dominant form of relationship the player has to the world is "power fantasy", you have to be really careful.

Baseline, the "scope" of the realism of the game is a choice. You're making a cyberpunk game, and then you decide what you want in the game/simulation: can your character swim, are there vehicles, what are the character customization options, what are the weapon options, is the world racist/bigoted, is there one big map or various gated off sections, and so on.

Then, you scope the game and decide what you're able to include in the game while still delivering a good experience. It's no use including motorcycles if your engine or level design isn't able to support that choice, and it's no use adding them in - they won't be fun, and (in the case of, say, Arkham Knight don't @ me) whatever you do add in might actually make the game worse.

For any choice you make, that's going to be "believable" in the final product: we don't actually expect games to be actually realistic simulations, and we're perfectly happy to accept "oh there are no delivery trucks in this city" or "my character can't swim" or "this waist-high barrier is impassable I have to go around it instead of jumping." By the same token, "there are various ethnicities in this world and it doesn't matter" is a perfectly fine choice that next-to-nobody would complain about. If you're making the choice to include bigotry in your world, you have the responsibility to make sure that it's part of the narrative and isn't just going to make people who play the game feel shitty, in kind of the same way that you're going to only include motorcycles if you're able to make them satisfying, but with much higher real-world stakes. That's where CDPR looks to be on shaky grounds - they've made the choice to include bigotry, and crucially to *have the PC occasionally commit racist acts* but they haven't shown that they have the sensitivity or a plan to actually make that *interesting*.
 

AllChan7

Tries to be a positive role model
Member
Apr 30, 2019
3,670
So who do we believe on combat and gunplay? Do we flip-flop on every article and impresssion piece that comes out? Could've posted dozen others that say otherwise.

RPS have never filled me with trust. I tend to think of them as contrarian hot-takers.

I'd say look at the overall impressions to the gunplay. I liked what I saw in 48 minute demo from last year personally so it probably depends on what you expect and what you enjoy in terms of an RPG shooter like this. Idk the history with rockpapershotgun or their tastes