RPS: Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes

[OrdinaryPrime]

I never said you're excusing it, but it certainly sounded like you were accusing Poland of being homogenized, as if they were specifically attempting to keep a homogenous population, whereas the reality is that A) they don't have a history of occupying and exploiting people of other races, and B) their transformation into a market economy and subsequent joining of the EU means that their population has generally decreased, especially with regards to young people, and a lack of investment and need to adhere to EU competition rules meaning that it's difficult for Poland to invest in it's own industries and attract immigrants, especially from outside Eastern Europe.

Also we can't forget the huge xenophobia directed at Eastern Europe over the past decade, driven by a combination of anti-Russian feeling, the remnants of anti-Communism, a sort of Western-supremacist anti-Slavic primitivism and a very deep rooted and barely acknowledged anti-semistism.

Obviously you are not doing any of those things at all. I just think that we, in the West, have to be super, super careful when criticising countries like Poland. They're not 'fair game' just because they look white. Poland is a complicated country with complicated socio-political and ethnic identities.

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I am stating a fact about the population spread of Poland. I never attributed any sort of intention one way or another. Obviously I'm sure a lot of Polish people don't necessarily want to move to the UK to work construction if they could make a living in their own country.

Your post doesn't seem to address the actual issues in Poland and instead wants to focus on how the issues are okay because they suffered massively previously. I'm not disputing their suffering, and visiting Auschwitz is something that I won't ever forget. However, that doesn't make it okay, and the way their government is going, their attachment to the Catholic Church to the point where it's almost a theocracy, is not something that should be above criticism simply because of their history. Nor is racism just because the country didn't choose to be homogenized.

As a sidenote the last time I went to Katowice, the amount of construction and overall building was startling.

 

[zombiejames]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time CDPR gets the combat wrong. It was the #1 reason why I dropped The Witcher 3 after only a few hours. Hopefully they listen to criticism since they still have 10 months to figure it out.

 

[OléGunner]

It's an opinion. Deal with it. The story was dull, except for the Bloody Baron bit. Playing as Ciri wasn't fun. The fighting was boring. Way too many side quests. Lots of jank.

Oh, and it's way overlong. Been plodding through the damn game for years. I have the big battle at the castle, thinking it's the end. No! Two hours after and it's still going! The devs need to learn when to end a story.

The best part of the game was Gwent. The rest was ehhhhhhh

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Fair enough if its opinion my G.
I thought it was more of a statement of fact.

But yeah I disagree whole heartedly with everything you wrote about that game.

 

[KillLaCam]

[

It's unnerving to me that seemingly the majority agrees that a depiction of a cyberpunk world like is expected to be depicted in such a way that it is charitable and compassionate to it's inhabitants- to be an ideal of what should be, or at the very least what should definitely not be. CDPR should be able to depict this world and it's inhabitants according to their vision without the responsibility of representing people fairly and justly. A bleak future where humanity exploits each other and technology to endure and escape a grim socioeconomic, political and technological future is going to have some harsh things to say about humanity.

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There are definitely some people who are upset that the cyberpunk game is actually being cyberpunk. I see them more on Twitter and stuff (random gaming journalists) than here though.

It seems like most of the people here just want the characters to be better than "Hispanic from Cali stereotype"

I don't think he's that bad considering who makes the game, but that's definitely a fair criticism.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Oh for fuck sakes.

Let me guess, the character controls like a tank and the car driving is shite. Then it would be your typical CDPR game.

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Even if this was the case, they wouldn't know, since no one played the demo first-hand.

 

[Marcus Brutalius]

It's an opinion. Deal with it. The story was dull, except for the Bloody Baron bit. Playing as Ciri wasn't fun. The fighting was boring. Way too many side quests. Lots of jank.

Oh, and it's way overlong. Been plodding through the damn game for years. I have the big battle at the castle, thinking it's the end. No! Two hours after and it's still going! The devs need to learn when to end a story.

The best part of the game was Gwent. The rest was ehhhhhhh

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I agree with everything here. Had the same exact experience with W3: a 9-10/10 til you get to Novigrad, then it drops to a 7-8/10 and a 6/10 towards the end.

 

[ManixMiner]

Some of the posts in this thread are just to much.

Gun combat was probably going to be serviceable at minimum, which is fine by me.
The world, characters, story, RPG elements can carry the game for me beyond shooting if all that other stuff is world class.



TW3 extremely mediocre?
I can understand not enjoying some aspects of the game or the world etc but this is just hyperbolic crap.

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Agreed, The world in TW3 is just amazing and the storys are fantastic. Ok the fighting in the game isn't great but it's very serviceable and doesn't bring the game down for me. I just finished HoS last night and really enjoyed it can't wait to play B&W now.

 

[Council Pop]

However, that doesn't make it okay, and the way their government is going, their attachment to the Catholic Church to the point where it's almost a theocracy, is not something that should be above criticism simply because of their history. Nor is racism just because the country didn't choose to be homogenized.

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Of course not, and I entirely agree with you. I suppose my point was a more general one that we in the West are very much complicit in what has happened to modern Poland.

 

[SolidChamp]

Eurogamer said basically the same thing. The dialogue by far looked the worst thing about this game during the demo released last year. Just makes me cringe.

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Yep. And at the time, when I pointed out how awful the dialogue was, I got ripped a new one from some people on Era because the defense force for this game was almost as "hardcore" as the game wants to be. lol

 

[Zealuu]

Leaning into contemporary racism as window dressing for your future dystopia is both banal and lazy writing, in addition to just straight up being racism. If you can't conceive of a convincingly oppressive Cyberpunk scenario without dividing your megacity into ethnic burroughs and letting the protagonist make fun of black people talking, you haven't got much going for you. If the entire idea of the genre is that identities are constantly in flux and can literally be modified on-demand, leading to an enormous plurality of identities that just existm, why would people fixate on identities to derive slurs from?

"Racism/sexism/transphobia as shorthand for future grittiness" is the least imaginative shit I can think of, and frankly I expect more from CDPR

 

[Astral]

That trans woman poster is fucked up. Honestly, V seems like a real unlikable dipshit.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

Shit gameplay sounds like CDPR all right. I'm happy to skip their games in the future.

 

[misho8723]

It's an opinion. Deal with it. The story was dull, except for the Bloody Baron bit. Playing as Ciri wasn't fun. The fighting was boring. Way too many side quests. Lots of jank.

Oh, and it's way overlong. Been plodding through the damn game for years. I have the big battle at the castle, thinking it's the end. No! Two hours after and it's still going! The devs need to learn when to end a story.

The best part of the game was Gwent. The rest was ehhhhhhh

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Yeah, it's a opinion.. that most people don't agree with you.. shame that you didn't liked the game, but majority of people did

 

[Florin4k4]

Maybe that xenophobia in cyberpunk has merit after all. First Deus Ex, now this.

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This Looks like one of those photos with altered subtitles you find online where you know its fake.
Except it isnt. Jesus

 

[OléGunner]

Some of the posts in this thread are just to much.




Agreed, The world in TW3 is just amazing and the storys are fantastic. Ok the fighting in the game isn't great but it's very serviceable and doesn't bring the game down for me. I just finished HoS last night and really enjoyed it can't wait to play B&W now.

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Yup I also thought the sword combat/magic abilities in TW3 were fine (not total garbage as many believe) and everything else is just created to such an insanely high quality level that you forgive some short comings in gameplay.

And you're in for a treat with B&W which is pretty much a 10/10 old school expansion so enjoy it!

 

[PrintedCrayon]

Could be something as simple as size, or referring to changing other parts of your body.

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Maybe, but it does seem like more of a soft-drinks ad than that of a bodymod one.

I wouldn't like to guess though. I guess we'll just know more when the game launches or if CDPR open up about the in-game universe (unlikely)

 

[garion333]

Nothing in this article surprises me. It's exactly what we thought we'd end up getting.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

The Witcher had an incredible world but none of the 3 games had compelling gameplay. It seems like it's improved for Cyberpunk but this opinion is somewhat worrying. I don't want to play a dull shooter for 50-100 hours just because of a good story or world, the game has to feel good for me to bother.

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Totally agree. This is the reason why I've never got very far into TW3. I like the world design and the character designs, but I find the combat and gameplay to be such a drag.

 

[Deleted member 249]

Yeah, I'm not sure about this game at all. The Witcher 3 was ultimately a masterpiece based on tapping into rich source material but the actual gameplay parts of it fell flat.

Cyberpunk looks like it plays poorly as well, and it also looks like the developers alone don't quite get their own setting beyond it just being a fancy aesthetic.

 

[Jonnax]

Yeah, it's a opinion.. that most people don't agree with you.. shame that you didn't liked the game, but majority of people did

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Right. It's only important what the majority thinks.

Just like Cyberpunk seems to have racist stereotypes and seems to be transphobic.

It doesn't matter because the majority of people don't care and will enjoy the game.

Isn't that right?

 

[Soupman Prime]

Maybe because most people didn't had a problem with the gameplay in TW 2 and TW3? ..they don't have the best combat systems, but I played TW2 3x times now and never had a problem with the combat and the same with TW3, where I have more than 400 hours played already and I'm still really enjoying the combat - difficulty on the highest, some powers or signs max out, using bombs, oils, crossbow and potions/decoctions, armors with enhancements from Hearts of Stone and mutagents from Blood and Wine and the combat is really enjoyable and fun :)

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When I was playing 3 one of the toughest things was to just walk around in a house. I may be in the minority but I had problem with it and the combat wasn't great at all. I've heard it's since gotten better with updates but Gwent, story and characters were probably what I enjoyed the most out of it.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

This is what this game has boiled down to for me. Defenders dismissing the complaints about the regressive undercurrent of CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077 because they're excited about the shiny toy.

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Sounds like the exact opposite of the truth.
They are depicting a dystopian future filled to the brim of social issues, where criminal gangs run the streets and corporate entities overrule governments.
And people are complaining their depiction of the agents at play is less than flattering.

 

[Yerffej]

I never particularly cared for how Witcher 3 played but I loved it anyway. I kind of look at GTA games the same way. I'm not there for the gameplay the way I am in other games. I get absorbed in the world, but playing the thing always leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Wolfgunblood]

This is a very bad faith reading of this thread. People mainly want characters of color to be more than just stereotypical.

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I'll re-read it. I don't believe everyone who isn't white will be depicted as a stereotype. That would require some significant malice and/or incompetence on CDPR's part and I am not there with that kind of accusation. If that ends up being the case, we will have played the game and have a full understanding of it to be able to reach that conclusion. It just seems like we're seemingly requiring every piece of media- even one that depicts one particular city in a dystopian science fiction world where civilization obviously took many wrong turns- to prohibit any depiction that could be considered problematic or stereotypical.

 

[Xibal]

Increasingly confident this is just playing into typical power fantasy future stuff for targeting a perceived straight white male audience and will lack the cutting commentary of the best cyperpunk works (but it will review great anyway because the majority of critics are white males who don't care about themes)

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Mike Pondsmith, the creator of Cyberpunk 2020, is a black guy, he worked as advisor for the Cyberpunk 2077 game and was depicted as a NPC (the Fixer). Frankly I'm not concerned about the game more than about people arguing just for the sake of It...

 

[Sal]

So CDPR is bad at 3rd person combat and 1st person shooting with stereotyping to boot. Disappointing, this was my most anticipated game ever. Basically my dream game

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One persons opinion and you 180. Ah the modern age.

 

[Bunga]

Cyberpunk's core idea is 'high tech/low life' or how rapid technological advancement actually hinders the life of individuals in a society where most forms of democracy have been replaced by oligarchies and megacorporations. Social divide, class consciousness and problems like classism/racism are usually a big part of the social commentary in cyberpunk works. Cyberpunk that dwells in body modification also usually involves identity issues, body dysmorphia, questions about what truly constitutes a human being etc.

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Thank you for clarifying - so am I to take it that we should really be expecting stuff like in the OP in the game rather than being surprised by it? Apologies if I'm causing any offence here but it sounds like what we're seeing is true to the source material the game is based off of from what has been said. We see racism etc. addressed in television shows all the time without the shows being lambasted for portraying it. Maybe it's different that the player character saying it in this instance?

 

[rein]

What does it mean ? I don't understand

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The character is making fun of the NPC's pronunciation of the word "them".

 

[BabyMurloc]

We have so little in depth information about the game's world (the actual video game, not CP2020 in general), that it seems hasty to draw any far reaching conclusions. The elements described here are crass and offensive, but that doesn't make a work of art bad by itself. Maybe they'll tie it all together in a way that makes it good. Or maybe they don't.

 

[Firefly]

People seem to forget that William Gibson wasn't exactly floored with Blade Runner 2049 either. Does Era also think the same way?

Mike Pondsmith, the creator of Cyberpunk 2020, is a black guy, he worked as advisor for the Cyberpunk 2077 game and was depicted as a NPC (the Fixer). Frankly I'm not concerned about the game more than about people arguing just for the sake of It...

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How would the creator inspired by literary works know more about it than random forumers and media journalists?

 

[Marble]

Well they've never made shooters OR first person games. Even if some of the staff is new or from Remedy etc.
As an example Respawn Entertainment didn't nail down their mechanics in Medal of Honor yet, took awhile and some games to get it right for COD4 and now finally we have Apex Legends.

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Respawn only made Apex and Titanfall. ;-)

But I don't buy that. Guerilla Games never made a third person game (unless we count Shellshock 15 years ago) with melee and RPG mechanics before and they nailed the combat big time. Especially when you're going first person, you'd expect to hire some experience in regards to gunplay and bullet/impact feedback.

But hey, release is still far away, so let's assume it will be better when the time comes.

 

[andymoogle]

Nothing in this article surprises me. It's exactly what we thought we'd end up getting.

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Yep. This game is going to be a mess, but people will still eat it up and praise it to infinity.

 

[Yasuke]

If the gunplay is anywhere near as "bad" as Witcher 3's combat, I'm sure I'll love it.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Rockpapershotgun is a awful site with bad journalism. I'll wait until this is spoken about by other sites, but Witcher 3's combat being supposedly bad as people say, I still consider it one of the best games I've played.

 

[datbapple]

Cyberpunk is supposed to be dystopian, it is supposed to be full of awful things. Did y'all get mad at the movie Dredd because it had a black man as a drug dealer that didn't speak the queens English? y'all upset 24/7 smmfh

 

[Deleted member 2254]

Totally agree. This is the reason why I've never got very far into TW3. I like the world design and the character designs, but I find the combat and gameplay to be such a drag.

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It's such a shame because I have such great memories connected to the franchise, but I just can't find myself to enjoy it as a game to play. The first game was coming out at a time I recently started working for a small-ish gaming website (my first experience of this kind), and we were invited to attend the presentation for the game to our surprise. So I went to the event (it wasn't at their HQ, it was a press event in a different country), talked to the passionate guys from CD Projekt (so much changed since then, both for better and worse imho), even had the chance to try the game. It felt like... eurojank. It was like playing Gothic, except in a much more fascinating world and with a cooler lore. I probably even have a couple photos and videos which I didn't share due to NDA but it would probably be interesting to look back to a pre-release TW1 in hindsight. Not sure if I still have that stuff around, to be honest.

The Witcher 2 is a game I got for free from CD Projekt's reviewer registration program: they allowed a select number of small blogs/gaming websites/video creators to receive a free promo copy in exchange of a review, so we applied and despite the likely huge numbers we got in, and it was cool. I played the game and I loved the worldbuilding again, but I just couldn't get myself to like the gameplay in the slightest. It felt even slower and clunkier in some ways.

I have The Witcher 3 in my backlog. I tried it very briefly. I want to play it, I bought it for that reason. Third time's a charm, right? But as cool as it all is, I just can't get myself to keep on playing it. It is not fun for me, simple as that. I can get over a meh gameplay if the game last 3 hours, but not if it takes me away a hundred, which nowadays equals to weeks as I don't have that much time for gaming as I used to.

Fast forward to this game which looks one of the best things ever made in this industry. There's few gaming worlds in my long gaming history that I've found more fascinating and detailed than this one. If I could, I'd dive in this very second. But I have this giant fear that the game will not be fun. That for all the brilliant stories, characters, breathtaking worlds... it will just be a dull shooter with RPG stats to fill, a lot of same-y fetch quests, shootouts being bad, etc. etc.. I don't have anything concrete to base this on as this is a brand new game, but all I know that this studio's last three ambitious RPGs were games I played, I wanted to like, but I just could not find them not clunky.

This game has it all: it's got shooter mechanisms (my favourite genre), an exciting sci-fi world (my favourite style), incredible worldbuilding, insane graphics, Keanu fuckin' Reeves. I'd so hate it if, once again, I'd find the game unfun to play. Because I hate watching Let's Plays, so it's either me playing it to the end or I don't experience it at all.

 

[Virdix]

Well at least the person working on the music isnt problamatic....



Hmmmmmm.... HMMMMMM

 

[FTF]

Ugh, I really hope both get fixed before release.

 

[Hierophant]

Well at least the person working on the music isnt problamatic....



Hmmmmmm.... HMMMMMM

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bro are you just not allowed to read books from famous authors now what is this take

EDIT: Looked it up mb the book looks trash lmao

 

[Detective Loki]

But I thought they fired their garbage social media person?

Oh that person doesn't also write their games?

That must mean...

 

[Xibal]

Unless the main character is an imbecile, he clearly understands what is being said (for basic linguistic reasons I can explain if you really want), but actively chooses to take the time to mock the way the black person talks. Mocking the way black people talk is a time-honored racist tradition that has been instrumental in portraying them as less intelligent and/or more savage, so resorting to that in 2019 isn't a good look anywhere.

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Or Maybe, simplier, in a multicultural society where only Money, Power and Fire Power really counts, people can mock each other the way they want, 'cause real surviving problems are fuckingly others than feeling bad for the way someone think about or depict you. Sorry but in 2019 this kind of debate, in a Cyberpunk setting, is awkard as trying to write something on the phone and getting the T9 continuosly judging what you should really write. And getting wrong 99% time.

 

[Mivey]

This is what this game has boiled down to for me. Defenders dismissing the complaints about the regressive undercurrent of CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077 because they're excited about the shiny toy.

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sadly on point

 

[Cyn]

I saw this headline so I looked around at a few other takes on the demo. This one was by far the most negative/clickbait.

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RPS quality fell off a cliff years ago once some of the founding staff left or their better writers went on paternity/maternity and left. It's been dire for a long while now.

 

[The Curry Witch]

Yeeah I'm gonna hold off any judgement until the game is out. I'm ready to dunk on the game for bad representation and blatant racism and sexism or phobias if that is indeed so, but I'm not convinced just yet.

Ater all... I wouldn't want a Cyberpunk world in which brands do not think tone-deaf sexist or transphobic advertisements are a terrific idea. I wouldn't want to play in a shitty city without racists or people who aren't driven by irrational hate towards those they make responsible for their own shitty situations. And I wouldn't want to not meet characters who are somehow, by society, driven into a life where they are have somehow become a comic representation of a stereotype they once fought against being.

The tone makes the music. The question still stands for me if the games dares to take a stand against a a regressive culture or if these examples we've seen so far point to the exact opposite.

 

[MilkBeard]

I can't really jump to conclusions yet, though their demonstration last year gave me a window into how characters would be portrayed. Dialogue seemed really hamfisted and shallow. Unless proven otherwise, this game does feel like it will have shallow portrayals of character. CDPR no longer have books to rely on for this.

That being said, we still need context in the game and the story. I'm still going to give it a chance.

 

[derFeef]

Let's not forget how they use Asian/Oriental imagery as windows dressing. There was an article after last year's demo got public, can't find it right now. It's simply there to make the game look more "futuristic" and "cool" for the western audience because of japanese/chinese writing and virtual ads i nthe game.

 

[Flipyap]

LOL. Yeah, who knows at this point.

Hoping Mike Pondsmith has guided CDPR on some of these themes and it's not just transphobic or anything.

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Pondsmith and his company don't exactly have a great track record. The Cyberpunk 3.0 Gang Book (co-written by Pondsmith) features a gang of literal FemiNazis ("glamour Blitz-krieg, a violent, dolled-up transgender Wehrmacht on spike heels").

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And this is how the spin-off sourcebook When Gravity Fails (published by his company) handles the topic of "sex change":

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(the "humanity cost" part is related to the wildly outdated concept of cyberpsychosis - the idea that prosthetics somehow make you less human and could eventually drive you insane)

This was a long time ago, so who knows, maybe they've changed and realized how idiotic all of this was, but as of right now, I definitely wouldn't go to them for a progressive take on the genre.

This is what this game has boiled down to for me. Defenders dismissing the complaints about the regressive undercurrent of CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077 because they're excited about the shiny toy.

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I feel like this cyberdude should be shooting himself with another, much larger gun firing "COOL FUTURE!" bullets because the genre has always indulged tenfold in the things it's supposedly criticizing.

 

[Hierophant]

Let's not forget how they use Asian/Oriental imagery as windows dressing. There was an article after last year's demo got public, can't find it right now. It's simply there to make the game look more "futuristic" and "cool" by western audience because of japanese/chinese writing and virtual ads i nthe game.

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dude night city is supposed to be a melting pot of every kind of culture imaginable, japan is the number one superpower in the game and controls most media, japanese would be a common language among many people, i don't get this take, i'm actually quite happy for once i hear spoken chinese in a videogame and can understand it

 

[Loudninja]

Cyberpunk is supposed to be dystopian, it is supposed to be full of awful things. Did y'all get mad at the movie Dredd because it had a black man as a drug dealer that didn't speak the queens English? y'all upset 24/7 smmfh

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This is such a weak defense.

 

[iareharSon]

Did they look to Deus Ex for inspiration?