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RPS Contributor Tim Stone outs themselves as a transphobe UP: RPS cuts ties

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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,188
UK
Tim Stone does wargame and SIM reviews on RPS.

Jennifer Unkle (trans games writer, Scanline Media, Waypoint, Paste)

Tim Stone​
​
​
@​
"there are diverse voices within RPS when it comes to games, genres, preferences etc but I would say (and i'd be prepared to be challenged on this) there is zero diversity in respect of political views and arguable groupthink and alignment particularly around trans issues."​
There's at least one regular RPS contributor who'd like to see the site show a little more respect for the gender critical position in the trans rights debate. Me.​
I believe arguments like the ones articulated in pieces like these…​
link to not today satan​
link to not today satan​
…are perfectly reasonable. I agree with all those arguing for more constructive discussion and less name-calling in this debate.​
Jessica Harvey (trans games developer, Paratopic, Tangiers) mentions UK games media being bedfellows with bigots:


I hope Rock Paper Shotgun takes some action towards this to keep the site inclusive. "Gender critical" is just a quieter way of saying transphobic things.

www.rockpapershotgun.com

Watch Dogs Legion is removing Helen Lewis

UK journalist Helen Lewis's voice is being removed from a fictional radio show in Watch Dogs Legion due to her controversial writing on transgender rights.
www.rockpapershotgun.com www.rockpapershotgun.com

UPDATE:
Jiffy Smooth said:
He's toast
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These bigots who code their hatred in polite, respectable language and callously demanding for people's lives to just be ammo for arguments and devil's advocating are worse than explicit bigots because they take up more space and longer to be knocked down, so they use their platform for more dehumanisation and demonising. More people can get roped in with the coded language and concern trolling. Good on RPS for doing right by the trans community.
 
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aiswyda

aiswyda

Member
Aug 11, 2018
3,093
First of all, Fuck TERFS.

I've never heard of rock paper shotgun before, so I apologize for probably obvious questions but what exactly is the focus of their site beyond gaming generally? Are they considered to be more progressive? Do they cover everything gaming wise or?

Just curious as the comments on the article are presenting sort of a mixed bag—people are getting close to not being sketchy but then spew some shit about "not all TERFS are transphobes". Hate to see if
 
eonden

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,087
aiswyda said:
First of all, Fuck TERFS.

I've never heard of rock paper shotgun before, so I apologize for probably obvious questions but what exactly is the focus of their site beyond gaming generally? Are they considered to be more progressive? Do they cover everything gaming wise or?

Just curious as the comments on the article are presenting sort of a mixed bag—people are getting close to not being sketchy but then spew some shit about "not all TERFS are transphobes". Hate to see if
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They are a pretty well respected PC gaming focused website.
 
Xater

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,907
Germany
That it's coming from a guy that is focused on war games and sims is somehow way too fitting.

Gender critical...oh fuck off.
 
Shirkelton

Shirkelton

Member
Aug 20, 2020
5,996
Rock Paper Shitgun, IMO.

aiswyda said:
First of all, Fuck TERFS.

I've never heard of rock paper shotgun before, so I apologize for probably obvious questions but what exactly is the focus of their site beyond gaming generally? Are they considered to be more progressive? Do they cover everything gaming wise or?

Just curious as the comments on the article are presenting sort of a mixed bag—people are getting close to not being sketchy but then spew some shit about "not all TERFS are transphobes". Hate to see if
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It's always had a fairly firm reactionary contingent in it's audience.
 

laser

Member
Feb 17, 2018
310
His argument is, I'd like people to respect my opinion that trans people shouldn't exist. He can go fuck right off.
 
Rosebud

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,597
"We should respect all people"
"You know, that's a pretty bold political statement"
 
Adree

Adree

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,072
Geez those comments. The UK has a severe transphobia problem among the people who would consider themselves liberal.
 
Dreamwriter

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Wikipedia says this about TERFs:

"Those referred to with the word TERF typically reject the term or consider it a slur; some identify themselves as gender critical. "

Sounds like this person...
 
Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,206
Hull, UK
i like big butts said:
Its always the wargamers and simulation nerds that are chuds. Always the case.
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Damn right!

unknown.png


Nah but seriously it's an issue among wargamers, one that the companies making those games are actively trying to fix. Fucking TERFs.
 
Nanashrew

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Reading that second tweet, I'm actually kinda glad I unfollowed John Walker years ago. Also fuck TERFS!
 
Jay_AD

Jay_AD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,911
Ooof.

I loved his flare path column on RPS, so this actually stings a little. Well. So much for that. Dude can fuck right off.
 
Arsene no Kiseki

Arsene no Kiseki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,974
Canada
eonden said:
They are a pretty well respected PC gaming focused website.
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I always find it funny how RPS is considered a respected site when co-founder John Walker thought until last year that sites like Humble Bundle, GMG and Fanatical were unauthorized grey market sites like G2A.

Like how are you a PC gamer and co founder of a long running PC gaming enthusiast site and not know about Humble lmao
 
Fevaweva

Fevaweva

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,491
Man I remember reading Tim Stone's stuff years ago in PC Gamer.

Shame he has come out as a TERF. Fuck that guy.
 

Deleted member 3196

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
This is disappointing, but not surprising. The chummy media inner-circle in the UK is full of revolting TERFs.

They influence each other, pat each other on the back and promote from within, and it has a toxic effect in lots of ways.
 
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
The removal of Helen Lewis really poked the TERF nest on this one lol. I'm glad he outed himself and I hope RPS take note of it. There's no sympathy to be had toward TERFs and the Gender Critical position. No open arms, no meeting half way. They all belong in the bin the second they open their mouths and spew the garbage they do.
 
Dictator

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
If you take this Position serious for a second, what does "gender critical" even mean? Is it just being a contrarian for contrarian sake? To be negative and enable Road blocks for people who already have a lot of Road blocks?

Like seriously, what does such a Position even stand for or what are its value?
Does not even Sound right when you try and take it as a serious face value.
 
aiswyda

aiswyda

Member
Aug 11, 2018
3,093
dodo said:
this is a really stupid thing to say. your favorite genre has plenty of shitty cheerleaders as well, i'm sure
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If I wasn't too lazy I'd make a meme but for now enjoy a text version:

"Don't make me tap the sign"

The sign: if someone makes a comment about how a non marginalized community largely fails to be decent, and you believe yourself to be a decent member of that community, the correct response is not to get upset that someone made a comment at that community's expense

(Also gamers largely suck but I agree that wargamers have a tendency to have worse opinions ime, and in the experience of a lot of my friends who are wargamers who would agree with the original statement lol)
 
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
aiswyda said:
If I wasn't too lazy I'd make a meme but for now enjoy a text version:

"Don't make me tap the sign"

The sign: if someone makes a comment about how a non marginalized community largely fails to be decent, and you believe yourself to be a decent member of that community, the correct response is not to get upset that someone made a comment at that community's expense
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Thank you. Would be nice to not have every topic around these issues turn into some form of "#NotAllX".
 
CandySTX

CandySTX

Member
Mar 17, 2018
1,636
Scotland
I've noticed in the English gaming that, even among the smarter left leaning people, there are strong reactionary ideas.
Been told by supposedly sensible Uni educated Labour voting types that it's our fault for being so loud that LGBT rights aren't respected.

So, yeah. Disappointing, though not a surprise.
 
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
Dictator said:
If you take this Position serious for a second, what does "gender critical" even mean? Is it just being a contrarian for contrarian sake? To be negative and enable Road blocks for people who already have a lot of Road blocks?

Like seriously, what does such a Position even stand for or what are its value?
Does not even Sound right when you try and take it as a serious face value.
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You're not wrong at all. The position of being Gender Critical is that we should move away from respecting gender in order to focus on biological sex - effectively removing trans people's ability to exist as ourselves.

In their warped view of things they also claim to not be transphobic as they support trans men - who they view as confused women, because of that; that they are 'actually' women. The considerable majority of their focus is spent on targeting trans women who they paint as men looking to play dress up in order to prey upon and access women's areas. This is usually in the form of a littany of recycled homophobic arguments, now repurposed to throw against trans people.

Thread below goes comprehensively into the arguments you see today and how they're just repurposed forms of homophobia.

 
Redcrayon

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
discotheque said:
What is it with so many Brits being TERFs, seriously
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mentok15 said:
I'm not familiar with these people or the site bit it's good when these things get pointed out. And what is it with the UK and terfs?
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Maximo said:
What the fuck is up with the UK?
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A large chunk of our media columnists on both the right and the left subscribe to this exclusionary bullshit and they all know each other (it's not uncommon for opinion writers to move across the political divide from one to the other). Combine that with Mumsnet backing all these idiots and how close the media and government are altogether in London due to both the social and career links between media>PR>government press officers and even the toothless BBC thinking it's still a 'contested debate' rather than a matter of prejudice and bigotry, and you end up with a media circus that is utterly vile on this topic. Where even the outlets that claim to stand against prejudice and for progressive views host TERFs in their opinion pages, on the basis that some of the leading voices used to write about women's rights and have a huge following on social media, and so are at the top of the section editor's contacts book when looking to commission an opinion piece on sex/gender/identity etc that will gain traction. It's then inevitably followed by famous, wealthy talking heads patting each other on the back for 'speaking out' about how oppressed they are when people call them out on their bigotry that they mask as 'legitimate opinion', which is now utterly predictable as they reach out for support from the rest of the circus, expecting U.K. media and other opinionated celebrities to close ranks around them. Which, again, predictably, is followed by a wave of idiots like this chiming in.

Some good posts here if you want to look into it.
www.resetera.com

Watch Dogs Legion Has a TERF Hosting Its In-Game Podcast (update: being removed from the game)

ffs Ubisoft, that's not even getting into conflating the criticism of Israel from a pro-Palestine point of view with anti-semitism
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
 
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fluffy pillow

fluffy pillow

Member
Sep 12, 2018
154
Dictator said:
If you take this Position serious for a second, what does "gender critical" even mean? Is it just being a contrarian for contrarian sake? To be negative and enable Road blocks for people who already have a lot of Road blocks?

Like seriously, what does such a Position even stand for or what are its value?
Does not even Sound right when you try and take it as a serious face value.
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The classical "gender critical" position — really the Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist position, as "gender critical" is a fairly recent term — is that there is something innate to cis women that cannot be present in anyone not born with XX chromosomes. They talk around the issue a lot by, among other things, inventing a sort of "innate violence" that all men have and thus, in their eyes, all trans women have, and thus they think we are a danger to cis women, but really, the classical TERF position is an almost religious reverence for the concept of a "female soul". Classic TERFs have a whole academic structure they've built around this shining pearl of shit but always, if you keep questioning them, it comes down to, "I've got something inside me you haven't got and never will."

Modern TERFs and gender critical people don't come from this tradition. Modern "gender crits" are naked bigotry with no attempt to justify it. They're the Q Anon of gender, they hang out in forums and Discords and on the arse-end of Twitter and Reddit and share their basest fears trumped up into "facts": trans women will replace "real" women; trans men are erasing "real" women; trans people are trying to convert/steal our children. If you switch the words around you can see it's just recycled homophobia, racism and antisemitism, which isn't a coincidence as these people are mostly also homophobic, racist and antisemitic.

Classical TERFs and modern gender crits do work together, and it's often difficult to tell the two groups apart — particularly in, say, the modern UK media — but they also fight a lot, and one of the things they are currently disagreeing on is whether or not they should ally with the extreme right wing in order to achieve their trans-exterminationist goals: classical TERFs mostly say no, because they are still hung up on their goal of protecting women (potentially admirable, but they have entirely the wrong target) and rightly see the right-wing as disastrous for abortion, women's rights, lesbians' rights, etc.; modern gender crits are mostly all for allying with Trump, Boris Johnson, the current Polish government which has targeted LGBTQ people and abortion, and other people and groups on the extreme right, because they have the Q/white supremacist worldview that states nothing is more important than their chosen existential terror (the elimination of "woman" as a concept / the elimination of "white" as a concept).

So it's why it doesn't make sense: trying to analyse it seriously is like punching air, because there's nothing there. In both cases it's a cloud of excuses around a central fear or bigotry.
 
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
Redcrayon said:
A large chunk of our media columnists on both the right and the left subscribe to this exclusionary bullshit and they all know each other (it's not uncommon for opinion writers to move across the political divide from one to the other). Combine that with Mumsnet backing all these idiots and how close the media and government are altogether in London due to both the social and career links between media>PR>government press officers and even the toothless BBC thinking it's still a 'contested debate' rather than a matter of prejudice and bigotry, and you end up with a media circus that is utterly vile on this topic. Where even the outlets that claim to stand against prejudice and for progressive views host TERFs in their opinion pages, on the basis that some of the leading voices used to write about women's rights and have a huge following on social media, and so are at the top of the section editor's contacts book when looking to commission an opinion piece on sex/gender/identity etc that will gain traction. It's then inevitably followed by famous, wealthy talking heads patting each other on the back for 'speaking out' about how oppressed they are when people call them out on their bigotry that they mask as 'legitimate opinion', which is now utterly predictable as they reach out for support from the rest of the circus, expecting U.K. media and other opinionated celebrities to close ranks around them. Which, again, predictably, is followed by a wave of idiots like this chiming in.

Some good posts here if you want to look into it.
www.resetera.com

Watch Dogs Legion Has a TERF Hosting Its In-Game Podcast (update: being removed from the game)

ffs Ubisoft, that's not even getting into conflating the criticism of Israel from a pro-Palestine point of view with anti-semitism
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
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On point. It's become all too predictable on these topics for the circlejerk to run to the defence of whatever TERF has said some nonsense and caught heat for it. Each of which has an audience and thus a veneer of respectability that works to poison public sentiment on these issues. In the form of legitimising the views they hold, putting a crowbar in to ensure it's viewed as an acceptable 'debate' and having people push back on those rebuking them.
 
dodo

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
aiswyda said:
If I wasn't too lazy I'd make a meme but for now enjoy a text version:

"Don't make me tap the sign"

The sign: if someone makes a comment about how a non marginalized community largely fails to be decent, and you believe yourself to be a decent member of that community, the correct response is not to get upset that someone made a comment at that community's expense

(Also gamers largely suck but I agree that wargamers have a tendency to have worse opinions ime, and in the experience of a lot of my friends who are wargamers who would agree with the original statement lol)
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Kyuuji said:
Thank you. Would be nice to not have every topic around these issues turn into some form of "#NotAllX".
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i am nonbinary and i really don't appreciated being 101 lectured like this. this isn't a "ooooohhhh they're coming after my favorite games i'm so oppressed my community is good actually and that's the Real Phobic Behavior" thing, but i have to say as a queer person who quite enjoys grand strategy, simulation, etc etc (don't know if I'd call my self part of "the community" really, but nonetheless) entering a thread about someone who hates my existence and seeing everyone respond with dunks about a think I enjoy--I mean, look no further than the dumb slight about Rob Zacny being "the one good one" posted in between these replies--does not feel great! these smug comments aren't clever or helpful or really even criticizing Tim Stone's shitty words--just the media he consumes, as if that's where the blame lies. that just serves to make people like me feel doubly alienated, not supported.

we're all on a gaming forum here, and gaming as a whole has a shitty behavior problem. getting granular about it and slinging stones about specific genres just feels petty and more likely to accidentally annoy or upset the people you think you're defending in service of cheap points. glass houses and all that.
 
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Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
dodo said:
i am nonbinary and i really don't appreciated being 101 lectured like this. this isn't a "ooooohhhh they're coming after my favorite games i'm so oppressed my community is good actually" thing, but i have to say as a queer person who quite enjoys grand strategy, simulation, etc etc (don't know if I'd call my self part of "the community" really, but nonetheless) entering a thread about someone who hates my existence and seeing everyone respond with dunks about a think I enjoy--I mean, look no further than the dumb slight about Rob Zacny being "the one good one" posted in between these replies--does not feel great! these smug comments aren't clever or helpful or really even criticizing Tim Stone's shitty words--just the media he consumes, as if that's where the blame lies.

we're all on a gaming forum here, and gaming as a whole has a shitty behavior problem. getting granular about it and slinging stones about specific genres just feels petty and more likely to accidentally annoy or upset the people you think you're defending in service of cheap points. glass houses and all that.
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Cool. I'm trans and don't really appreciate derails on threads around issues concerning me and my country, in favour of discussing who is and isn't a bigot in evidently-non-literal generalisations. Something that persisted throughout the last topic and I'm keen to avoid the same on this one.
 
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