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Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
I was surprised to not see a thread about it.
First up in details, the reader choices:
10. Astral Chain - 1.6% (Nintendo - Switch)
9. Dragon Quest Builders 2 - 1.6% (Square Enix/Nintendo - PS4, Switch, PC)
8. Pokemon Sword / Pokemon Shield - 2.1% (Nintendo - Switch)
7. The Outer Worlds - 3.5% (Private Division - PS4, Xbox One, PC)
6. Disco Elysium - 5.1% (ZA/UM - PC)
5. Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers - 6.4% (Square Enix - PS4, PC)
4. Kingdom Hearts III - 8.1% (Square Enix - PS4)
3. Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age Definitive Edition - 8.6% (Square Enix/Nintendo - Switch)
2. The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III - 12.6% (NIS America - PS4)
1. Fire Emblem: Three Houses - 32.3% (Nintendo - Switch)
And now, Staff picks (I really recommend checking the link for detailed writeups):
  • Commendation for Writing & Storytelling - Disco Elysium
  • Commendation for Art - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
  • Commendation for Music - Kingdom Hearts III
  • Commendation for Design & Immersion - Fire Emblem: Three Houses
  • Commendation for Ongoing Support - Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers
  • Commendation for a Non-RPG - Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Runner-up Five:
  • FFXIV Shadowbringers
  • The Outer Worlds
  • Judgment
  • Kingdom Hearts III
  • Ring Fit Adventure
Final Five and RPG of the Year:
  • Dragon Quest Builders 2
  • Monster Hunter World: Iceborne
  • Fire Emblem: Three Houses
  • Disco Elysium
  • SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions
Again, please check the two links above for more details. That was a good year for the genre.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,872
Trails of Cold Steel 3 being that high is crazy to me. Not cause if quality or anything but I assumed not many people played it cause you don't hear people talking about it that much.
 

The Kidd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,034
I enjoyed SaGa quite a bit, but ended up falling off. Put 40hrs into it running around Urpina's route, and combat got relatively easy and think I sequence broke a few things so the story wasn't making any sense, and wasn't very interesting to begin with.

Still a good game, and may have caused the issues I'm having myself by running around every territory doing the side quests rather than progress.

I personally would put Fire Emblem as my RPG of the year, but haven't gotten around to Disco Elysium or Dragon Quest Builders yet. Also waiting to start FF14 until they drop the patch that cuts out alot of the early game fat, supposed to happen early this year I believe.
 

Zukuu

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,809
Disco Elysium got robbed.
Weird how a dedicated RPG site doesn't put it first, when it even wins GOTY from mainstream outlets.
 

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,794
Disco Elysium got robbed.
Weird how a dedicated RPG site doesn't put it first, when it even wins GOTY from mainstream outlets.
Weird how other sites don't put SaGa first, when even a dedicated RPG site has it win GOTY.

... Why is it weird for different sites to have different results?
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Everyone's arguing about Disco Elysium vs SaGa while I'm over here still feeling odd that they consider Zelda games to be RPGs.
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,435
SaGa was a December release, lots of sites did their GOTY voting before it was even out. I bought and really like both Fire Emblem & SaGa. FE has better character stuff and production values, while SaGa ironically has much more strategic combat. I'm cool with either winning, but SaGa is the feel-good underdog here, a labour of love for a producer whose series was dead and brought back for a cursory 25th anniversary entry, and only given the budget of a high school play.
 

Elven_Star

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,954
I tried SaGa after hearing all the praise, but couldn't get into it. Everything seemed confused and without direction. Seriously don't understand why people like it so much.
 

MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
I tried SaGa after hearing all the praise, but couldn't get into it. Everything seemed confused and without direction. Seriously don't understand why people like it so much.
People like different things than you, news at 11. SaGa has a dedicated fanbase, it's not for you and that's okay, but it's a great game and one of the best RPG's released in a long time.
 

HaremKing

Banned
Dec 20, 2018
2,416
Were the reader choice selections write-in or did they already have the possible choices set? I'm perplexed that Ryza didn't at least make the top 10.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Someone is going to have to explain to me how Monster Hunter is an RPG... Great game, lots of fun with it... but an RPG it is not.
 

Massicot

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,232
United States
Thanks for linking this. It was, as it is every year, a very tough choice. Fire Emblem and SaGa were pretty much tied until the very end, with Disco just falling short right ahead of it. I recommend anyone curious about the choices and inclusions/omissions to listen to the attached podcast if they have a chance.

Everyone's arguing about Disco Elysium vs SaGa while I'm over here still feeling odd that they consider Zelda games to be RPGs.
Someone is going to have to explain to me how Monster Hunter is an RPG... Great game, lots of fun with it... but an RPG it is not.

Yea. We get this every year about numerous things. We also get asked where our reviews are for God of War and Sekiro. There really isn't a good answer other than our staff is comprised of volunteers and hobbyists and we cover what we're interested in. When Capcom calls Monster Hunter an RPG on their website, and we have people who love the series, we're not going to decide NOT to cover it, right?
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
When Capcom calls Monster Hunter an RPG on their website, and we have people who love the series, we're not going to decide NOT to cover it, right?
Fair enough, it wasn't meant to be a critique to site or staff, just i always wonder what the criteria is for RPGs anymore, or even if the term has much meaning with nearly every genre incorporating more and more RPG elements.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,318
Someone is going to have to explain to me how Monster Hunter is an RPG... Great game, lots of fun with it... but an RPG it is not.

You fight monsters to get stuff to become more powerful to fight more monsters. That's more like a standard RPG than something like Disco Elysium which sounds a lot more like a point & click adventure game crossed with a tabletop than a traditional RPG.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Yea. We get this every year about numerous things. We also get asked where our reviews are for God of War and Sekiro. There really isn't a good answer other than our staff is comprised of volunteers and hobbyists and we cover what we're interested in. When Capcom calls Monster Hunter an RPG on their website, and we have people who love the series, we're not going to decide NOT to cover it, right?
Honestly, this is exactly what I expected and I totally don't have a problem with it. Figuring out what is and isn't an RPG was never a scientific process I'd imagine.
 
OP
OP
Naga

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Were the reader choice selections write-in or did they already have the possible choices set? I'm perplexed that Ryza didn't at least make the top 10.
From what I remember there was a ton of choices, but you could vote for only one game.

edit: and yeah, I'd argue that MonHun falls under the (vasrt) ARPG umbrella.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
You fight monsters to get stuff to become more powerful to fight more monsters.
This is kind of what I was getting at though, if you reduce the meaning of the genre that far, then most games will be considered RPGs. A racing game where you get faster cars from winning to challenge faster cars in new maps for example, would broadly fit into that framework.

I'm just an old man yelling at clouds I guess.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,482
Trails of Cold Steel 3 being that high is crazy to me. Not cause if quality or anything but I assumed not many people played it cause you don't hear people talking about it that much.
Small but devoted following. Other than also taking a good while to play through even once, as with other games in the series, the time investment associated with familiarizing with the events/characters/setting/lore of the series and how everything connects between arcs needed to have much of a discussion only further limits how many people will typically be discussing it.

Then of course there's how long the games take to localize, with the most hardcore Trails fans importing and playing the games years before they become available in English.
 

TYRANITARR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,962
I need to check out this Saga Grace game
All I heard about it was great combat and bleh everything else.
 

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,794
I need to check out this Saga Grace game
All I heard about it was great combat and bleh everything else.
No? It isn't a character driven narrative heavy game, but it has great writing, tons of choices, incredible music, and probably one of the best world maps ever in an RPG, and some of the best quests ever to go with it. I also like the graphics but I've seen enough people dissing then to realize I'm an outlier.
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
I thought the music for KH3 was disappointing honestly.
Same, my favourite tracks were the remixes from past games, with the originals never reaching the level of past songs, except for Scala Ad's theme . A consequence of Yoko Shimomura taking a lesser role on that game. Also, the opening is awful and they should've never collaborated with Skrillex.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,592
You fight monsters to get stuff to become more powerful to fight more monsters. That's more like a standard RPG than something like Disco Elysium which sounds a lot more like a point & click adventure game crossed with a tabletop than a traditional RPG.

I always found it weird that the "role playing game" genre was characterized more by gaining experience points and fighting monsters than actually allowing people to play different roles.

Not a commentary on MonHun's qualification or anything. Just personally I feel like Disco Elysium embodies the "role playing" spirit more than most other rpgs I've played so it's weird to see that comparison.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,909
I always found it weird that the "role playing game" genre was characterized more by gaining experience points and fighting monsters than actually allowing people to play different roles.

Not a commentary on MonHun's qualification or anything. Just personally I feel like Disco Elysium embodies the "role playing" spirit more than most other rpgs I've played so it's weird to see that comparison.
Because it's based on D&D. It's a gameplay definition, not a narrative one.

MH really isn't an RPG though and Capcom doesn't consider it one. They call it a Hunting Action game.
 

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,923
I tried SaGa after hearing all the praise, but couldn't get into it. Everything seemed confused and without direction. Seriously don't understand why people like it so much.
Which character did you play as? If Leonard, then that's understandable, since it is non-linear by design, and I would definitely not recommend him as a first character.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,482
Because it's based on D&D. It's a gameplay definition, not a narrative one.

MH really isn't an RPG though and Capcom doesn't consider it one. They call it a Hunting Action game.
Capcom started reclassifying MH as an action RPG by World, for some reason (don't really agree with it myself, either).
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,435
I tried SaGa after hearing all the praise, but couldn't get into it. Everything seemed confused and without direction. Seriously don't understand why people like it so much.

I'm sure everyone's got their own reasons, but I could summarize most of my feelings as:

1. The combat demands as much if not more strategy in any average fight in the game as a typical Final Fantasy boss fight does. There's none of the "just hit attack for 15 minutes until you get to the end of the dungeon for a fight that finally matters" stuff.

2. That combat itself is pretty fun & ingenious once you figure out how much there is to it. It starts to feel almost like a puzzle game, manipulating the timeline in ways that would be counter-intuitive in another game, setting up chain reactions of things crashing together.

3. It's streamlined. Some might find that lacking, but you don't have to drag yourself around a dungeon backtracking from dead ends before anything of note happens. You don't get constantly interrupted by random battles. You don't have to wander around a town talking to mindless npcs until you find the signpost character that lets you go to the next part.

4. What you see as confused and without direction, is just as easily seen as freedom. You can explore everything or just skip it. There are things in the world which change, strange mysteries that pop up if you do certain locations, but it doesn't do that much to force you down particular alleys.

5. That mystery is another take it or leave it type of thing - it fosters a community figuring everything out, working though the ins & outs of the battle system & weapons & abilities, but I get that some don't want that sort of thing in their single player rpgs.

6. You've got tons of control over your party, builds, etc. You can make anybody any class. You get piles of characters to choose from. You don't even have to use the main character if you don't want to. The game even rewards variation & mixing & matching classes as it unlocks unique abilities through the role system. The levelling up is interesting in that there aren't even (character) levels, just skills and abilities which are improved though use.

7. The stories are kind of refreshing. You can play as a ceramicist who just wants to make her bowls stop coming out weird. You don't have to be the chosen one who is the only person who can slay the dark demondragon but for some reason nobody will lend him any money. There's a decent amount of lore that comes through in the constant vignettes peppered throughout the game. I've found even most of the minor characters likeable, and I've gotten attached to a few of them.

It's not going to be for everyone. It revolves around a whole lot of battling. It's low budget. It's often really hard & punishing.

It's mainly aimed at hardcore jrpg players who like messing around with systems on systems and are looking for something a little off the beaten track. It's clearly the work of an experienced designer, who's taken some of the best elements from games like Final Fantasy V, Chrono Cross, Grandia, and of course past SaGa games and crafted them into something new that works quite well. In that way it's a lot more fluid & enjoyable than other games which aim for the same crowd like Stranger of Sword City.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,318
I always found it weird that the "role playing game" genre was characterized more by gaining experience points and fighting monsters than actually allowing people to play different roles.

Not a commentary on MonHun's qualification or anything. Just personally I feel like Disco Elysium embodies the "role playing" spirit more than most other rpgs I've played so it's weird to see that comparison.

I feel like at this point RPG and role-playing game are two very different genres. Like something like Disco Elysium is much more of a roleplaying game than most RPGs, and much less of an RPG than most RPGs.
 

Seda

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,069
Were the reader choice selections write-in or did they already have the possible choices set? I'm perplexed that Ryza didn't at least make the top 10.
Late to this reply. Fun fact, both Ryza and Saga Scarlet Grace tied at #15 in our Twitter poll.

And yes, we've been doing this for years and field a bunch of commentary about what is an RPG or not, we're used to it. We decided a while ago to generally just be flexible and sometimes er on the side of over-inclusion, and even still people wonder why we didn't cover something like Sekiro (we probably could have to be honest). FWIW Capcom does call Monster Hunter World an RPG in places, like their website or in the Iceborne announcement press release. We try not to be stubborn arbiters of the genre or whatever.

For example, we were NOT covering Astral Chain at first, because it wasn't announced or described as an RPG initially. But the E3 2019 presentation showed more RPG elements and as these elements became more apparent, we decided to review it at launch even if people still debate if it "is an RPG or not". It did well enough in the Poll to grab #10. People voted for it, so cool.
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Scarlet Saga, Disco Elysium and Cold Steel 3 are my top 3 this year. Fire Emblem was a disappointing game personally (horrible first half, great 2nd)
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,464
Man, few games these last few years look as visually unappealing as Scarlet Grace. Like if a 2012 mobile game and a remastered PS3 game had a baby.
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,435
Man, few games these last few years look as visually unappealing as Scarlet Grace. Like if a 2012 mobile game and a remastered PS3 game had a baby.
The visuals put me right off playing it for the first couple of weeks it was out. Once I got the game they grew on me though, it wasn't as hideous as I was expecting. Helps that I'm on Switch Lite, can't speak to how they translate to a bigger screen.