RPG-ERA, what makes a class/job system 'good' or 'bad'? What is your favorite one? Any 'unique' or 'interesting' ones that stuck with you?

[TinfoilHatsROn]

TL;DR: Played an RPG with custom class system (which made me want to min/max) that made me think about other battle systems in RPGs and what I value in job systems, which I normally don't think about. Also want community opinions and answers to questions in thread title.




So I've been playing an Earthbound/Mother 3 inspired RPG-maker game called Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass. It's honestly amazing and I recommend that you look into it. Pick it up if you think you'll enjoy it because it's made by a single developer! I'll include the trailer below. (It's darkly humorous but well balanced in tone and the gameplay really utilizes the systems to its fullest. Planning on making a LTTP later on.)

The reason I mention the game is because the job system in it was pretty interesting. At certain points in the game the main character, Jimmy of course, can 'empathize' with an enemy and gain their form plus abilities. This means in battle you can switch to different forms which all have different attribute percentage buffs and powers. For example, there's one slime form that emphasizes defense and can tank physical attacks and another punk one that has a higher luck stat that can steal stuff from the enemy.

So all pretty normal so far, not unique but pretty fun to play. Here's the cool part: You still have a base human form, 'Jimmy' that can equip certain skills once you get enough job points put into that class. Each class has its own level and once you get these high enough you can put active and passive skills on your base form. Once you get these forms high enough, you can create a custom job class that can be a fucking monster. It's addicting cause now my 'Jimmy' has an ultra high physical attack stat and can wipe those enemies weak to physical in one go. Min/max-ing has never been so addicting.

The downside is that it takes a while to gather up the levels and skills needed for this. I'm like 10 hours in and I feel likevI finally have enough skills to play around with it without hardcore grinding. However, the other forms are still there and work pretty competently in the meanwhile. There's also an easy mode that can give double EXP which you can switch to. More importantly, it's fun to play around with the job system like this.

I was watching some videos/stream on the game and there was a comment about how the job system/Custom class was something in Final Fantasy 5. I've never played FF5 so I plan to look into it after I finish my current game. Hopefully it's on Switch or PC.

And that got me thinking about job systems in other games... Persona/SMT (actually SMT is a pretty good comparison for this game. Kinda a blend of Persona's and SMT's systems because you can change forms but also attach skills to your MC), FFT, Fire Emblem (kinda, not typical RPG but I enjoyed a custom character to make into whatever class I wanted in Awakening/Fates along with the regular class system), Bravely Default. I also enjoyed the sphere grid system in FF10 too, I admit. Nier Automata had chips you could insert that could change up a certain playstyle, which is kinda like this.

In my RPG job systems that I think are good, I tend to value more freedom in shaping the characters a certain way. And the devs do it in a fun and unique way, it gets me addicted to min/max-ing to get the most overpowered skills of all time. Not that there's anything wrong with linear job systems. Lisa: The Painful is one of my GOAT and it doesn't have anything like that. However there are RPGs that do this wrong and feel suffocating to play.

Final Fantasy 13 is one such example of a 'bad' system. The level up system was called the Crystarium or something like that and it was a huge pain in the ass. Once you leveled up, you could go into it and spend points to gain attributes like +2 strength or whatever. The problem was that there was usually only one path to go which made me wonder why exactly the developers didn't just give me the fucking stats when I leveled up. Why waste my item. Plus there was a level cap that stopped you at a certain level until some arbitrary point in the story. It was aggravating and made me more willing to drop it. To be fair, my description could be entirely inaccurate because I dropped it early and played FF13 a while ago. Perhaps it opens up later on.

Anyway, I want community opinions on this. ERA, what job systems do you remember that stuck with you? What aspects do you enjoy about them? What are some bad ones and why? What are your favorites?

 

[Tfritz]

I'm pretty #basic so:
Good: The characters change outfits/costumes when they change jobs
Bad: The characters do not change outfits/costumes when they change jobs

 

[Nairume]

Great: You can freely change classes and pass abilities between classes based on your prior progress
Good: You can freely change classes but nothing specific passes over from your previous class
Also good: You can't freely change classes but you can upgrade a class linearly and stuff carries over
Okay: You can upgrade classes linearly but nothing carries over
Bad: You are punished for changing classes and nothing carries over

 

[TinfoilHatsROn]

I'm pretty #basic so:
Good: The characters change outfits/costumes when they change jobs
Bad: The characters do not change outfits/costumes when they change jobs

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I actually enjoy that too. I like that the in-game sprites change for Fire Emblem characters once you change classes. Unfortunately it doesn't get reflected in the character art. I know it's really hard on the art team and unreasonable to want but... I really wish that would happen once.

 

[Pendas]

I recently played FFX and never realized how terrible the (Standard) Sphere Grid is. It gives the illusion of choice, but every character other than Khimari is locked into a single path until around.. 80% through the game when you get Key Sphere's that allow you to branch off. By that point you're so far near the end, you're at the point you can max every character and gain every stat.

I guess what I'm saying is a good Job System let's you make changes *during* your journey. FFX gives you the option to do so at the endgame, and at that point, it really doesn't matter.

 

[spiritfox]

I love RPGs that let you mix and match different skills from different classes/jobs. Final Fantasy V is still the epitome of job systems, but games the like FFTA games, Bravely Default, and EO3 are also great examples of that.

 

[Deleted member 419]

I view job systems sort of under the same lens as fighting game rosters, what I value the most is balance. To me the entire point of a job system is, not to wade through an array of options in order to find the few clearly overpowered/viable setups, but rather to strike out in any direction in the expectation that whatever off-the-wall strategy you're attempting will generally work, assuming you put the commitment into polishing the build and understanding its proper strengths and limitations. So in my mind flexibility to change jobs isn't necessarily all that important, assuming the game has proper balance between each of the jobs; because I like the idea of committing to a build and sticking to it.

In that sense, for me a job system is really more of an incentive to replay the game than something that I change on-the-fly during the playthrough. That's part of the reason why I don't mind the PC version of FFXII not having the job change feature that the Switch and Xbox versions do.

That being said, if the game does have flexibility in changing your jobs/classes, then obviously I don't mind that either, since I can just keep the same jobs as a self-imposed limitation.

 

[Professor Beef]

Final Fantasy 5 is the gold standard that most games should follow, with FF Tactics coming in a close second.

Conversely, Final Fantasy 3 is NOT how you do it, but I'm willing to give that game a (slight) pass since it was their first shot.

 

[Dary]

That we've yet to better FFV is quite depressing, really.

 

[Transistor]

I actually think Final Fantasy X-2 is my favorite job system. Swappable on the fly, as long as they're mapped to your garment grid. Great variety of skills. Cool costumes.

The game would have been SO much better if it was a new Final Fantasy instead of a subpar sequel

 

[Arulan]

Classes are an abstraction that designers can use to model thematic and mechanical differences around. To that end I value whether it succeeds at making me feel like I'm role-playing a particular class. A Barbarian should play very differently from a Paladin. This can be expressed visually, through unique dialogue choices, world and encounter reactivity, unique class mechanics such as enrage and aura mechanics respectively, and a number of other examples. You sometimes have options for sub-classes that can go a long way to fleshing out this identity for your character (Priest deities, Paladin orders, Wizard schools, etc.). You can find examples of all of this from most of the D&D-inspired CRPGs (Baldur's Gate II and the rest of the Infinity Engine RPGs, Pool of Radiance and the rest of the Gold Box RPGs, Pillars of Eternity I & II, Wizardry VI-VIII, etc.). Check out Baldur's Gate II for one of the best examples of what high-level magic combat should feel like. I haven't played it yet, but I hear Dragon's Dogma is another good example of this.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodline's clan system works similar to classes, and is another fantastic example. Playing as a Nosferatu, Malkavian, and Toreador will dramatically change how you play your character. Thematically this is handled wonderfully. The hideous Nosferatu has to hide themselves from view, and scurry the the sewers, while the Toreador charms his way into people's hearts.

I view job systems sort of under the same lens as fighting game rosters, what I value the most is balance.

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I agree only in so much that they're interesting and enjoyable to play, but disagree in terms of combat power. I think that type of balance is often overrated, and can easily fall into the trap of safe design. There is something to be said for encountering a Barbarian in an open-field and knowing they outclass you.

Great: You can freely change classes and pass abilities between classes based on your prior progress
Good: You can freely change classes but nothing specific passes over from your previous class
Also good: You can't freely change classes but you can upgrade a class linearly and stuff carries over
Okay: You can upgrade classes linearly but nothing carries over
Bad: You are punished for changing classes and nothing carries over

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Personally I have to strongly disagree with this. Classes can be made flexible with sub-classes, multi-classing, and some other methods, but outright I'm free to be whatever I want whenever I want breaks character identity for me. Even class-less systems that use skills (and perhaps traits and perks) to identify a character have permanence of character and choices.

 

[Nairume]

Personally I have to strongly disagree with this. Classes can be made flexible with sub-classes, multi-classing, and some other methods, but outright I'm free to be whatever I want whenever I want breaks character identity for me. Even class-less systems that use skills (and perhaps traits and perks) to identify a character have permanence of character and choices.

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For me, it depends on how important character identity is to the game. In games like FF Tactics where you are largely fielding a team of generics or characters with only light character traits to inform their characters (which is the same for FF5 and many games I think people are probably thinking of when they think of a class system). Obviously something like Fire Emblem where class informs the character is a different beast and I do think that freely shifting classes in the more recent games have made those games a smidge sloppier.

For what it's worth, FF9 is my favorite in part because it does lock characters down to unique classes that you can tweak within the classes but can never change. But when it comes to games that have class systems where you do have the ability to change things, yes, I would prefer that you get to carry over the progress you make (which I believe we agree that choice should matter, albeit we are looking at different angles) like FF5 does versus, say, FF3's implementation of the system where you either pay a cost to change classes or are temporarily punished (depending on if you are playing the remake or original) and none of your work/choices from previous classes carry over.

 

[Kendall]

Good: You can customize them with outfits or type advantages.

Bad: Weak/low HP characters that are useless outside of healing. Eliminate fluff like that and replace with an item.

 

[Eppcetera]

Honestly, I prefer games where characters have more restricted jobs, a recent example that I like being Dragon Quest XI. In DQXI, the characters automatically learn some abilities, but the player can make some meaningful (but not wrong!) choices about which skills they learn on a tree. When every character can do everything, I don't find much meaningful difference between the characters in battle, and I often spend too much time optimizing my party members. That said, my favourite traditional job system is Final Fantasy Tactics.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Good: most classes feel fun to play (dragon's dogma)

Bad: you make Mages and rogues wear dorky robes and capes throughout the majority of the game (also dragon's dogma)

 

[TwinBahamut]

For proper job/class mechanics, Final Fantasy 5 and Wild Arms XF are two of the best examples.

The main strengths of these are thus:
1) Immediate access to the class's full power
2) Levelling the class unlocks powerful moves that can be used in any class
3) Every class brings something unique
4) Cross-class abilites are almost never weak
5) Strong synergies between class abilities lets characters be more than just the sum of their parts.

These qualities are all really valuable, but many good RPGs that implement fun class systems still fail to possess all of these qualities. It's a real shame.

For class systems that don't allow you to change class freely, the Etrian Odyssey series is the gold standard. It features really fun classes which allow for many different builds for each class, yet still requires careful planning to make the most of your options.

It's not what you think of normally as a class system, but the different character types from the SaGa series, such as Mecs, Mystics, Mutants, and Monsters are fun because they are so different from each other. Each one has a completely unique set of character growth mechanics and combat options, so they really provide distinct experiences.

 

[Razorrin]

I LOVE job-class systems! I might pop in once in a while to explain various systems that I feel do it well, but if I can point out someyhing I value apart from fundamentally good idea's like flexibility in changing between classes or in changing one class with another's abilities, it's Abstract Abilities!

I love abstract abilities! While there's nothing wrong with providing straightforward skill sets in most classes, where you abstract them with each other, I go BANANAS when jobs show up that get crazy right away!

Like, for example, Bravely Default. As you progress in the game, you get access to multiple classes, most inspired by Final Fantasy, with a few special ones along the way. One of those classes is Red Mage, and holy crap, does it get crazy!

When you get the class, it seems like it's purpose is pretty clear, you're okay with weapons and armor, you can cast both healing and attack magic up to an intermediate level, and by the time you get it, you'll make good use of the limitation. It seems like the basic "jack of all trades" class.

But when you level it up, you start getting passive abilities that trigger in difficult circumstances, like getting inflicted with a status effect, for example.

In BD, you have a mechanic where you can take multiple turns in a row using "BP," saving it up by defending, or using a bunch without the BP to pay, but being temporarily unable to act while you pay back your debt in missed turns.

The Red mage's true purpose becomes clear then. You play risky, you get to be more efficient, and get a ton of more turns...

...but once you find out how easy it is to Inflict your whole party with Poison, then Revoke it, then Inflict it again, then Revoke it again, all with one character's full four turns, that's when you've opened pandora's Box.

You see, by this point, contrary to what is usually true in games, it is now YOU who are no longer playing by the same fair rules as the computer.

Another fun, crazy passive ability comes from the Time Mage called "Slow World," where everyone, even all enemies, lose a BP every two turns, as if everyone's turns are cut in half.

Normally, that's just to make both you and you're opponent take half the turns, facilitation less offence from both parties, except now you have discovered Forbidden Knowledge, and can take such a restriction on the chin, while you're AI opponents lose half of their turns being unable to keep up!

You not only can provide you're WHOLE party with a full set of four turns, consequence free, with just one party member for upkeep, but now you're enemies can't even get TWO in a row!

That's crazy. And that's also indicative of another thing I value; Making Crazy Unique Setups and Characters.

 

[Moist_Owlet]

Meaningful progression with choices and consequences. Why I love the etrian odyssey series. FFXIV feels boring to me because every dragoon is the same, every red mage is the same, etc.

 

[Woylie]

The one that comes to mind for me is the Final Fantasy Tactics games, especially FFTA and FFTA2, which tied learnable skills to equipment. It made the process of getting new weapons and figuring out which skills to train really engaging, and the fact you could have a primary job, secondary job, and passive/counter abilities that you can mix and match made jumping around the different jobs fun as well. I'm dying for an FFTA3, but I don't think it'll ever happen. Anyone know of other SRPGs with that level of customization? The 3DS FE games scratched that itch a bit, but I'd love to hear about others.

I'm also about 10 hours into Dragon's Dogma right now, and the skill/vocation progression system is really satisfying. I like venturing out into the world to do quests and gathering discipline points that I can then pour into skills/jobs that feel make the gameplay feel meaningfully different. It's a great loop.

 

[Weiss]

One day I want to play an RPG entirely about the useless classes you never use.

 

[Demacabre]

The Calculator Class in FFT was wild. Broken as fuck, but wild and novel. In FFT defense, it did take forever to unlock and then flesh out their skills. So by that point, it was like the game was telling you, "Eh... here's your god mage. You put in enough time."

Also a good class is one that offers a viable and different play style compared to others.

A bad one is to take an established archetype and give it only cosmetic differences or makes them a one trick pony. I don't mind job specialization that does that. But it isn't a different job or class at that point.

 

[Razorrin]

Another thing I enjoy is Abstract Character Classes, which interestingly enough, is usually a staple of western indie JRPG systems! Stuff like Battle Chasers: Nightwar, Cosmic Star Heroine, or even Sonny if you used to play awesome flash games! (that have more developed sequels on mobile, check it out)

In these games, almost ALL of the roles and abilities these characters use are abstract _and varied outright, in order to better facilitate the core gameplay design, that is, making nutbar ability combos.

Like for example, a tradition healer is a little bulkier then the mage, but is physically weak both offensively and defensively, but has the unique role of mastering restoration, letting your other characters focus on offence while they tend to their wounds and status ailments, and bestow increased protection.

Callibretto is a massive War Golem with three times the size and ten times the weight of any other party member, and equips different Huge guns inside his arm, which still changes into a fist he flattens enemies with. He is your healer class.

And he does it well! He still has the good stuff, single target, multi target, regen, the works. But, he is also your best bet for smacking enemies with defense reducing debuffs, and also has frankly obscene damage output through multiple hit attacks.

That's all because even though the characters are technically one role, they eventually gain a ton of different options that you facilitate yourself alongside equipment and passives to make the most of them. you stick an accessory on Callibreto that makes his attacks sometimes deal a bunch of extra damage, his multihit can now do WAY more damage! Another one that sets enemies on fire, his multihit attack now applies obscene amounts of damage over time!

...These examples are limited, as it's been a while since I've played the game, but you get the jist of it.

This kind of system ends up merging both other kinds of gameplay systems in RPGs, the old fashioned style with multiple party members with strict roles that you switch based on narrative or composition, and the free-form class systems, where your characters are blank slates that become defined by the jobs they take on, before diversifying themselves with learned abilities from multiple professions.

While I love most RPG systems in general, I'll always appreciate Class based systems taking lessons from these types of games to create unique, diverse ability sets to enjoy and mix around.

 

[Johann Mistletoe]

Anything that gives me more ways to play the game is a must. A weak job system (like in Diablo) expands your playstyle options in a linear manner when they add new ones. A strong job system (like FFV, FFT, Bravely Default) expands your options exponentially. I guess it really comes down to jobs having the ability to mix and match abilities/gear and that most or all jobs have something interesting about them.

 

[Aaronrules380]

For games with flexible job systems like FFV the goal should be to make it so that if you try hard enough you can completely break the game while still offering a challenge to those who aren't min maxing, with each job having a unique identity and playstyle. Also end game superbosses that look at ways you might min max and go "Nope".

For stuff with inflexible job systems where at most you take a subclass I love Etrian Odyssey's progression and skill trees while making different classes feel super distinct even if some ultimately fill similar roles

 

[ara]

This depends entirely on the type of RPG I'm playing. What I want from a job/class system in JRPGs (like Bravely Default or what Nairume mentioned in post #3 - lots of freedom, being able to change classes anytime, being able to transfer skills, passives etc. between classes, essentially getting the tools to utterly break the game if I wish) is vastly different to what I want from D&D like CRPGs (very distinct classes with no possibility of switching between them as I please, clear advantages/disadvantages per class, but still a fair amount of flexibility with subclasses and dual-classing) which is different to what I want from very narrative-heavy RPGs (usually don't really care about gameplay stuff that much, I'm more interested in the classes affecting the narrative, e.g. VtMB and Malkavians vs. the rest of the clans).

 

[Aaronrules380]

This depends entirely on the type of RPG I'm playing. What I want from a job/class system in JRPGs (like Bravely Default or what Nairume mentioned in post #3 - lots of freedom, being able to change classes anytime, being able to transfer skills, passives etc. between classes, essentially getting the tools to utterly break the game if I wish) is vastly different to what I want from D&D like CRPGs (very distinct classes with no possibility of switching between them as I please, clear advantages/disadvantages per class, but still a fair amount of flexibility with subclasses and dual-classing) which is different to what I want from very narrative-heavy RPGs (usually don't really care about gameplay stuff that much, I'm more interested in the classes affecting the narrative, e.g. VtMB and Malkavians vs. the rest of the clans).

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Yeah, both approaches have their own merits while well done, as does a game with no real class system where character's progress linearly

 

[Deleted member 18021]

Cool: Varied jobs that, while maybe not perfectly balanced with each other, allow for interesting combinations and strategies.

Not Cool:

 

[Rhaknar]

Originality is a big one. Case in point, the Railmaster in Torchlight Frontiers

 

[werezompire]

For proper job/class mechanics, Final Fantasy 5 and Wild Arms XF are two of the best examples.

The main strengths of these are thus:
1) Immediate access to the class's full power
2) Levelling the class unlocks powerful moves that can be used in any class
3) Every class brings something unique
4) Cross-class abilites are almost never weak
5) Strong synergies between class abilities lets characters be more than just the sum of their parts.

These qualities are all really valuable, but many good RPGs that implement fun class systems still fail to possess all of these qualities. It's a real shame.

For class systems that don't allow you to change class freely, the Etrian Odyssey series is the gold standard. It features really fun classes which allow for many different builds for each class, yet still requires careful planning to make the most of your options.

It's not what you think of normally as a class system, but the different character types from the SaGa series, such as Mecs, Mystics, Mutants, and Monsters are fun because they are so different from each other. Each one has a completely unique set of character growth mechanics and combat options, so they really provide distinct experiences.

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You basically stole what I was planning on writing, even using the same examples.

 

[Ganransu]

If I had to choose, I would prefer a class system that let me carry over progression, and eventually build my own class. Much like FF5 or FFT.

That is not to say I don't also appreciate a more rigid class system akin to the one in Etrian Odyssey. Though I guess like the cross-progression kind, I like it when I can create my own style (somewhat) through sub class.

That said, it depends on the game, if a game has a strong narrative focus, I wouldn't mind as much if the flexibility isn't there, but then if they do decide to put in a class system, I would have to ask why. I would similarly ask why if a game is all about that class system but lack the flexibility.

 

[spiritfox]

Cross-class skill synergies are something that I want to see more of. An example I always like to go back to is the Spellcrafting system in Bravely Second. At its core it allows you to modify a spell you use to add different effects like multihit or splash damage. But you can also apply this to all other spells, from other classes too. You can turn summons into multihit skills, or single target heals into AoE ones. This and other synergies in the Bravely series is why I really enjoy the games so much.

 

[ffvorax]

Final Fantasy XI.
Job + SubJob system.
(ok it was not the first and not the last to use it, but I like the concept)

 

[Pellaidh]

Guild Wars still has the best class/skill system I've seen in a game.

For those unfamiliar with it, the game has 10 different classes, each with 5 different categories of skills you can use. And in total, each class has access to hundreds of different skills. But the main feature of the system is that you're only allowed to use eight of those skills at a time. You can change which skills you want to use any time you're in town, but once you enter a mission, the skills are locked.

This means that the game has a huge amount of variety. There's millions of skill combinations you can use, and since you can change what skills you're using anytime you're in town, you're encouraged to experiment and tailor your build for the specific mission you're trying to take on.

In addition, the max level of 20 is incredibly easy to reach. In some of the expansions, it just takes hours. That means that the game is entirely free of the grind-heavy gameplay that's almost universal in MMORPGs. Instead, you develop your character by getting new skills, thus increasing your diversity instead of your power. A lot of games like to brag about having "horizontal progression", but Guild Wars is the only one I've seen that really nailed it.

Another thing that the game really gets right is making sure no single class is locked to just one role. For example, Monks are the traditional healing class. But one of their skill categories is explicitly tied around dealing damage, and it's totally viable to make a DPS monk build. They even make the best tanks for some of the game's content. Even their healing skills are split in two widely different categories: healing and protection spells, with healing being reactive and protection being proactive. And most teams would usually take one of each.

And finally, building on this class variety is dual classing. Your' free to pick any other class you want as your secondary class, which gives you access to almost everything that class can do, except for its armor and its primary attribute (which strengthens certain skills and provides some powerful bonuses. For example, the Necromancer primary attribute gives you mana when things die around you). With this, the already huge amount of possible builds just skyrockets, giving you an incredible amount of customization options.

 

[Fictive]

FF5, how you can combine or even inherit abilities from classes and the stat bonuses spilling over is a big justice. It's not complex in that too much thought is needed in deciding how to balance your characters statistically, but its a strong point in how simple it can execute.

Its job system is also the reason why it's one of the strongest FF's mechanically and my personally pick of them all. You can open up to a new adventure and lock your characters in, each play through is another refreshing chance to switch it up without hassle.

 

[Sasliquid]

FFV is the GOAT that is all.

Flexible, fast, varied, colourful. Love it

 

[Red Arremer]

FFV is the GOAT that is all.

Flexible, fast, varied, colourful. Love it

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Came here to say this.

The only improvement I would make is making it easier to level up jobs to make the Freelancer/Mimic viable options faster, but other than that, FF5 is easily my favourite.

 

[Deleted member 5621]

Hmmm, I'm actually not sure. It really depends on the game. And I don't think I can explain better than some other posters, plenty of good stuff - but, I would like to mention one case that most will not know/remember (or not what most think when RPGs and jobs are mentioned): Phantasy Star Portable.

It does something that I don't remember any other game doing: allows you to customize what your class allows you to equip. Instead of giving the Hunter (aka the soldier/warrior/melee guy) swords, daggers and axes and saying no-no to guns and wands, it gives you a set amount of points that you are allowed to freely distribute between all weapon types. Of course, the Hunter has decreased cost for 2 handed melee weapons, shields and the like, but has normal cost for the lighter guns and increased cost for magic staffs. Weapons in PSPo also have varying grades (C, B, A, S, etc), and you have to set points in each grade separately. So I can allow my Hunter to equip A grade Daggers because I found a pretty good one, and spend the remaining points in allowing him to equip almost any C grade weapons just to test things out. Or specialize more and give him some more B grade stuff, but in exchange be able to use less weapons overall. The higher your class level, the more points you have.

And of course, you can freely redistribute those points any time you are in town without any cost.

PSPo also handles abilities similarly, you have a few slots and each ability requires 1-3. Unlike weapons though, you can mix and match abilities from different classes. So I can be a Hunter with a Lv3 Hunter ability that requires 2 slots and a Lv1 Ranger ability that requires 1.

It's a cool system IMO because it allows you to create multiple "roles" or styles for your character without penalizing you for either going multiple class leveling or specializing, not to mention the freedom/novelty of having a mage with machine guns even though you are supposed to use wands, for instance. It's also a cool way of letting the player create their own "sword class" or "shotgun class" while also giving freedom to undo that at any point and become a generalist or something else entirely.

Shout outs to Wild Arms XF, Etrian Odyssey, FFTA, Bravely Default (even though I have issues with it), Diablo 2 and classless games that allow me to create my own in a way like Valdis Story.

Oh, I also would like to add that too many games don't know how to make skill trees properly (coughs coughs Torchlight 2). When in doubt, just pull a FFT(A) instead pls.

 

[MoonFrog]

Generally I prefer my class systems neat and tidy--I want units with distinct class-informed identities that operate in synergy with each other such that there is elegance and beauty in fulfilling roles within a party. I tend to get overwhelmed and disenchanted with class systems based on switching classes and accruing a massive ability pool and/or leveling off weaknesses/strengths. So I want minimal subclassing, hard job-switching if it exists, and classes with distinct combat roles that moreover work well together. Basically, I want systems that give me personal involvement in creating what I think an RPG party should be. I'm not big on wide-open customization honestly. I want a more tailored experience and I want choices that encourage and reward dedicated builds.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Force magic in Dragon Age 2 is awesome. If the game is going to spawn baddies from the ground below or out of thin air, you might as well as have fun with them.

 

[Hate]

I like FFX-2. A LOT.

Basically, you're not locked to any form but they limit the abilities you have in each dress. You're also able to swap them while fighting.

among the games I've played. This one is mu favorite.

 

[Pottuvoi]

When job or class affects actual game outside battles.
Quest for Glory had nice one.

 

[FallenGrace]

Divinity Original Sin 2 for me. It might start you on a class but you can customise each one with skills from others to create some great mixes but it's limited enough not everyone is identical. Allows for great strategic planning from leveling up to equipment that effect skill levels but also has an easy reset if you want to change anything. I loved having a sword and shield warrior that could summon a demon, teleports and also turn things into chickens etc

Might be too trial and error for some people though.

 

[Geist 6one7]

FFV, FFT, and Dragon's Dogma are they best I've played personally as many have said. Also (at least the first time) it is highly entertaining to break the game wide open with a Calculator/Arithmetician in FFT. You can just Holy the entire map indiscriminately.

 

[PSqueak]

The best job systems allow you to mix and match skills as you build up your job/classes.

This is what made the system in FFT so damn good and fun to work with, you invested in leveling up your jobs and getting their skills to mix and match them into custom units with wack out combos.

 

[Saint-14]

FFXIV's Astrologian is probably my favorite one, it's such a cool idea for a healer and support.

 

[tiesto]

One day I want to play an RPG entirely about the useless classes you never use.

Click to shrink...

Wasn't that the concept behind the Bard's Tale series?

Anyways, my favorite class systems are the ones that allow you to respec pretty quickly, with minimal hits to performance... games where classes are mainly used to add a puzzle element to the battles (FF5 and Wild Arms XF for example)

 

[Demacabre]

Wasn't that the concept behind the Bard's Tale series?

Click to shrink...

Funny aside, my dream "kinda joke but kinda not really" game is a fantasy RPG where the entire party is bards in the style of a Dethklok and the world based on the art direction of epic metal album art.

Each member of the band has different skills determined by their instruments and role in the band and are oblivious to the fact they are in a RPG plot trope of saving the world.

They themselves.... just want to be the biggest bard troupe in the world and have fans. The level of awesome art direction and de constructive humor is amazing for this. They are just Black or Death Metal Bards.

DEVS I BEG YOU! CONSIDER THIS.

 

[plié]

I always choose a basic fighter/soldier. Always. Even on second playthroughs.

 

[Geist 6one7]

The best job systems allow you to mix and match skills as you build up your job/classes.

This is what made the system in FFT so damn good and fun to work with, you invested in leveling up your jobs and getting their skills to mix and match them into custom units with wack out combos.

Click to shrink...

This so much. Iaido Black Mages, Jumping White Mages, Brawler Ninjas, Summon Time Mages etc.

 

[PSqueak]

Funny aside, my dream "kinda joke but kinda not really" game is a fantasy RPG where the entire party is bards in the style of a Dethklok and the world based on the art direction of epic metal album art.

Each member of the band has different skills determined by their instruments and role in the band and are oblivious to the fact they are in a RPG plot trope of saving the world.

They themselves.... just want to be the biggest bard troupe in the world and have fans. The level of awesome art direction and de constructive humor is amazing for this. They are just Black or Death Metal Bards.

DEVS I BEG YOU! CONSIDER THIS.

Click to shrink...

I keep saying they should make a fantasy videogame series based on the band "Glory Hammer", would be very close to this, technically they wouldn't be all bards since the characters are specific clases, but in their videos they almost always are seen playing their instruments.

And if they did a series the first game would be a high fantasy one and the second a space opera set in the same universe, that would be awesome.