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ROTS vs TLJ
- Thread starter Halbrand
- Start date
As above average as Revenge of the Sith was, it was entertaining and a fitting end to the prequels.
The Last Jedi utterly, completely, fucking fails at the most basic of its jobs - Part 2 of 3. A shitty ending is a shitty ending. Dexter Season 8 went out exactly as you'd expect, GoT S8 didn't leave a season 9 for some other schmuck to come up and clean up after. TLJ left someone [Abrams in this case] with nothing to do for your last movie aside from killing Kylo, leading to pulling Palpatine out of his ass to retcon this miserable existence of a trilogy. When you start as a trilogy, and your strategy is to "completely fucking wing it" is a terrible idea, especially when the second one drains every bit of an interesting idea from this rehash of a trilogy.
RoTS ends one trilogy and TLJ ensures that the other is at minimum in the worst cinematic trilogies of all time. You might even put the prequels on that list, but it would be lower than the ST. Disney has handled the ST with less finesse than DC's Cinematic Universe. At least Batman V Superman had some elements that would make people want to see Justice League if it weren't a terrible movie.
The Last Jedi utterly, completely, fucking fails at the most basic of its jobs - Part 2 of 3. A shitty ending is a shitty ending. Dexter Season 8 went out exactly as you'd expect, GoT S8 didn't leave a season 9 for some other schmuck to come up and clean up after. TLJ left someone [Abrams in this case] with nothing to do for your last movie aside from killing Kylo, leading to pulling Palpatine out of his ass to retcon this miserable existence of a trilogy. When you start as a trilogy, and your strategy is to "completely fucking wing it" is a terrible idea, especially when the second one drains every bit of an interesting idea from this rehash of a trilogy.
RoTS ends one trilogy and TLJ ensures that the other is at minimum in the worst cinematic trilogies of all time. You might even put the prequels on that list, but it would be lower than the ST. Disney has handled the ST with less finesse than DC's Cinematic Universe. At least Batman V Superman had some elements that would make people want to see Justice League if it weren't a terrible movie.
I am talking aesthetically, obviously. And it wasn't "do nothing new", it was build it in line with history of the universe... pay attention.
And it doesn't matter how much the PT tried to do new when it utterly fumbled ALL of it, especially the entire point of the story: Anakin's fall.
ROTS might have the meme power, but it's an awful movie. I feel indifferent about TLJ, at best, so it wins by default, I guess?
Recently attempted a re-watch of ROTS (more like skimming through it after suffering it for a while) and I cracked up when a sandpeople scream is played in the background when Sheev talks to Anakin about his mom. What a joke of a movie lol.
Recently attempted a re-watch of ROTS (more like skimming through it after suffering it for a while) and I cracked up when a sandpeople scream is played in the background when Sheev talks to Anakin about his mom. What a joke of a movie lol.
TLJ is a much better film, but it doesn't have Ian McDiarmid giving the performance of the decade. I'll vote TLJ, but with some reservations.
The prequels fucking suck. It doesn't matter how many polls or threads you all make. They fucking suck.
It should barely even be a debate.
TLJ is a well-made movie. ROTS is not.
All of the prequels are poorly written and directed. ROTS being the "least bad" doesn't matter much when it's still bad.
TLJ is better written and saying the direction/cinematography is better than ROTS is closer to a fact than an opinion.
TLJ is a well-made movie. ROTS is not.
All of the prequels are poorly written and directed. ROTS being the "least bad" doesn't matter much when it's still bad.
TLJ is better written and saying the direction/cinematography is better than ROTS is closer to a fact than an opinion.
hahaha it's so good. And the "I HATE YOU" that anakin does, saying "from my perspective the x are evil", so many good lines
I just rewatched TLJ, like right now, and I was floored all over again by that movie's quality. TLJ is truly a love letter to Star Wars, and it really is the best Star Wars movie after ESB.
It's outrageous that some "fans" have thrown such a tantrum over hurr durr subversion just because the movie told a mature story with coherent themes, instead of being a masturbatory fan film full of two-dimensional hotshots saving the day, and sickass battles with swirling glowsticks starring Force God Luke Skywalker in his Space Jesus robe.
The most rabid segment of the fanbase doesn't know or deserve quality. It's as though they value classic Star Wars for the most simplistic wish fulfillment elements, not the great storytelling and deft character writing that partially justifies its cultural impact (along with the design, sound, and music). No wonder they prize the prequels and despise the sequels. The only way that view makes sense is if they have puerile taste.
It's outrageous that some "fans" have thrown such a tantrum over hurr durr subversion just because the movie told a mature story with coherent themes, instead of being a masturbatory fan film full of two-dimensional hotshots saving the day, and sickass battles with swirling glowsticks starring Force God Luke Skywalker in his Space Jesus robe.
The most rabid segment of the fanbase doesn't know or deserve quality. It's as though they value classic Star Wars for the most simplistic wish fulfillment elements, not the great storytelling and deft character writing that partially justifies its cultural impact (along with the design, sound, and music). No wonder they prize the prequels and despise the sequels. The only way that view makes sense is if they have puerile taste.
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It's literally the only thing that RotS is good for. Well, that and Ian McDiarmid's acting.
Having just watched every Star Wars movie, it is incredible to me that ROTS has even any votes. The prequels are so so bad, honestly ROTS is the worst of the three. Nothing makes any sense in those movies!
I do not like Last Jedi at all, but as bad as TLJ is it'll never be as terrible as the prequels
I do not like Last Jedi at all, but as bad as TLJ is it'll never be as terrible as the prequels
It's what happens when you get your film opinions from youtubers
The strengths and failings of both movies are so totally different.
ROTS has what I consider to be a good overall arc, but almost every beat is just sort of badly written and directed. If you redid the same plot but hired someone else to punch up the script and got anybody other than George to direct I feel like it would be an excellent film. As it stands it's just kind of "ok" with the main highlight being Pappa Palpatine and Backstroke of the West. The effects are constantly jarring too. There's a thick layer of cheese that can be enjoyable to some.
TLJ I found to be an extremely messy film. The acting is better, the directing is better, and obviously things like the effects are 100x better (it's a great looking film), but I still struggled to enjoy it. So many small niggly things bothered me about it, and I think that because it got a lot of things right, the things it did get wrong feel more jarring than they otherwise would.
I would have to rewatch TLJ to get it more fresh in my mind and fairly judge it. I didn't love it though, and I also don't love ROTS, so my current thoughts are that they're two very different films that both disappoint me in different ways.
ROTS has what I consider to be a good overall arc, but almost every beat is just sort of badly written and directed. If you redid the same plot but hired someone else to punch up the script and got anybody other than George to direct I feel like it would be an excellent film. As it stands it's just kind of "ok" with the main highlight being Pappa Palpatine and Backstroke of the West. The effects are constantly jarring too. There's a thick layer of cheese that can be enjoyable to some.
TLJ I found to be an extremely messy film. The acting is better, the directing is better, and obviously things like the effects are 100x better (it's a great looking film), but I still struggled to enjoy it. So many small niggly things bothered me about it, and I think that because it got a lot of things right, the things it did get wrong feel more jarring than they otherwise would.
I would have to rewatch TLJ to get it more fresh in my mind and fairly judge it. I didn't love it though, and I also don't love ROTS, so my current thoughts are that they're two very different films that both disappoint me in different ways.
Not even a contest.
One has a bad acting and bad dialogue, but an interesting thought-provoking story, great mythos, characters and worldbuilding. It moves the overall story along and ends on a high note. It isn't the best movie, but it's earnest.
The other is just bad. Too long, dull and often illogical, retreading ESB and ROTJ beats, with a muddled message, and a lot of non-characters (Rey/Finn/Poe are all diminished in this movie), cringe humor and an almost spiteful disdain for the themes and topos of the 2 original trilogies. It ends with nowhere to go. It's a hipster ironic take on SW.
One has a bad acting and bad dialogue, but an interesting thought-provoking story, great mythos, characters and worldbuilding. It moves the overall story along and ends on a high note. It isn't the best movie, but it's earnest.
The other is just bad. Too long, dull and often illogical, retreading ESB and ROTJ beats, with a muddled message, and a lot of non-characters (Rey/Finn/Poe are all diminished in this movie), cringe humor and an almost spiteful disdain for the themes and topos of the 2 original trilogies. It ends with nowhere to go. It's a hipster ironic take on SW.
The sequel trilogy is just a cynical remake of the original trilogy, copying its ideas and concepts and making them more depressing because reasons. It doesn't just fail to acknowledge the events of the original trilogy, it shits all over them by saying they didn't matter.
It only retains the aesthetics because they'd rather cash in on nostalgia than do something exciting and new with the setting.
At least the prequel trilogy didn't do that. It introduced new worlds with new aliens and civilisations, showed us the Jedi at the height of their power and the most important event in Star Wars so far - the fall of the Republic and the collapse of the Jedi Order.
What does the sequel trilogy show us? A copycat Empire with a copycat Vader and a copycat Rebellion and a copycat Luke and the lesson that there are no happy endings unless Disney says so because everything everyone spent the first six movies fighting for was pointless.
Where do you people come up with this stuff? It's mind boggling.
Literally just rewatch the Yoda scene for a complete and definitive rebuttal to all this.
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No, the PT is a hot-mess of convoluted ideas wrapped around an utterly fumbled core story. It's visuals are sterile and lacking ANY of the charm and magic of the OT.
While it isn't without its flaws, the ST is a glorious return to form.
Right so you aren't interested in any actual discussion, just parroting opinions as though they're fact. I guess we're done then.
No, I'm not interested in having a discussion that I've had to death a dozen or more times in recent months.
You came at ME with your ranting, I have no obligation to humour how wrong you are... you, the person parroting their opinions as fact! :)
- Not from the Jedi/Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise ?
- You underestimate my power
- You're shorter than I expected
- UNLIMITED PAAAWAAAAAA
- It's treason, then
- I AM the senate
- Hello there
These have gotten a SHIT TON of uses from me.
Still to this day. 100% love it.
Oh right, you're one of those people who post opinions online and don't want anyone to reply to you unless they're agreeing with you. Okay, I get it.
Well, being correct must count for something.
It's not like the prequels were ever prized as worthy followups to the OT. The backlash is very well documented. On the other hand, the sequels have been largely well received in spite of the online hysteria.
I can't imagine having taste so bad that I'd seriously and with a sober mind select RoTS.
I know a lot of you were children when RoTS came out so it has a bit of nostalgia attached to it, but goddamn.
I know a lot of you were children when RoTS came out so it has a bit of nostalgia attached to it, but goddamn.
I'm talking about platform they were Indiana jones fighting on.
Or it's just a poorly written fight and "he might use the force on me" isn't a valid reason to not be able to do a jump that's lower than the one he did two minutes ago.
The truth bombing campaign across this thread has been devastating.
It does by nature of existing, yes.
It does a horrible job of contextualizing and justifying Anakin's fall, though.
Please do not attack me personally, because you can't handle a different opinion.
Neither the prequel nor the sequel trilogy are worthy follow ups to the original trilogy. You evidently just can't recapture that magic so using the original trilogy as the benchmark is pointless. All you can do when judging the prequels and sequels is how they use the setting to tell their own story and as far as that metric is concerned the prequels are a success and the sequels... aren't.
I don't like Yoda in TLJ to be honest. He looks and sounds weird.
How did you conjure an attack from that combination of words? If you don't want to engage, then don't engage.
I just rewatched the movie and he looks and sounds perfect to me. Like a modern but not too modern version of his classic self.
Telling their own story is a very low bar that both trilogies clear. So far the sequels have the advantage of being competently directed, written, and acted, with better cinematography, along with prop, set, and costume design on par with the OT's.
The prequels have beautiful art design, excellent music, dated CG, mostly bad performances, and memorably awful dialogue. They also totally fail to effectively dramatize the story of the Republic's downfall and Anakin's turn. The writing is so, so bad. So bad. Astoundingly bad. Lucas needed an editor and several ghostwriters.
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Not an attack... some of the opinions ITT are indeed mind boggling.
TLJ certainly has better cinematography but its writing isn't miles ahead.
It starts with a god damn yo momma joke :| plus theres some real dead lines like "Master Skywalker, we need you to bring the Jedi back because Kylo Ren is strong with the dark side of the force", the delivery is alongside some of Portmans lines from Episode 1.
He looks absolutely god awful.
It genuinely looks terrible. As if there had been absolutely no improvement made to puppets in 40 years.
I was relived to see Baby Yoda looking so good in comparison as it's also a puppet.
This looks so fake it's insane.