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PeterVenkman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
music surprised me, I've been enjoying it quite a bit.

Just unlocked boxer and it is fantastic. I really like how different the classes play and feel.
 

Nkcell

Member
Jun 24, 2020
754
The further I get the lower my opinion of the game becomes.

I know the grind was Rogue Legacy's thing, but this takes it to an absurd degree. You can do entire runs and level up 1 thing from the tree. And it feels like the game is balanced are you spending hours grinding because as you get to the later areas everything hits ridiculously hard, probably counting on you having a ton of armor upgrades, and the bosses become giant wads of HP.

This is not a game that respects the player's time, but I think that's the point. The game is built to be a giant time sink of grinding. I've played around 10 hours and had my fill though. I can feel myself getting bored with it.
 

adz2ka

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,034
Quick question for when I get back this evening - do changing any modifiers (contact damage, reduced enemy health) disable and/or remove access to any achievements?
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,078
While I'm enjoying this, I think the level/combat encounter design is somewhat lacking.

Sometimes it feels there are just too many hazards at the same time, in really small areas. Some enemies being able to go through walls doesn't help either.

I know this is likely due to the nature of being procedurally generated but still.

4th heirloom spoilers: I think it was a missed opportunity to not make your dash give you i-frames in general and not just against void stuff
 

Plax

Member
Nov 23, 2019
2,818
The further I get the lower my opinion of the game becomes.

I know the grind was Rogue Legacy's thing, but this takes it to an absurd degree. You can do entire runs and level up 1 thing from the tree. And it feels like the game is balanced are you spending hours grinding because as you get to the later areas everything hits ridiculously hard, probably counting on you having a ton of armor upgrades, and the bosses become giant wads of HP.

This is not a game that respects the player's time, but I think that's the point. The game is built to be a giant time sink of grinding. I've played around 10 hours and had my fill though. I can feel myself getting bored with it.

Yeah this is pretty much where I'm at. Barely levelling at all anymore even with some decent gold bonuses. I'm up to the 5th area and the entire place is just filled with projectile spamming enemies. I've reached the boss a couple of times but not sure I can be bothered grinding out the gold and ore to continue upgrading.

It's very much feeling like a F2P title in this way. I'm half expecting it to tell me I can buy 500 ore with real dollars soon.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,078
Yeah this is pretty much where I'm at. Barely levelling at all anymore even with some decent gold bonuses. I'm up to the 5th area and the entire place is just filled with projectile spamming enemies. I've reached the boss a couple of times but not sure I can be bothered grinding out the gold and ore to continue upgrading.

It's very much feeling like a F2P title in this way. I'm half expecting it to tell me I can buy 500 ore with real dollars soon.

Yeah I'm in the 5th area as well and it's a bit of a pain. I think I'll lock the dungeon when I reach the boss so I don't have to go through it over and over.
 

Plax

Member
Nov 23, 2019
2,818
While I'm enjoying this, I think the level/combat encounter design is somewhat lacking.

Sometimes it feels there are just too many hazards at the same time, in really small areas. Some enemies being able to go through walls doesn't help either.

I know this is likely due to the nature of being procedurally generated but still.

4th heirloom spoilers: I think it was a missed opportunity to not make your dash give you i-frames in general and not just against void stuff

I also agree with this, particularly the heirloom.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,532
Switzerland
Is it normal that the upper right of the manor is empty? Even though i unlocked all the stuff around it, nothing new appear there

unknown.png
 

chanman

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,602
I had a run where I had the ballista + the relic that made it so your attack was 200% strength but you could only attack once every 2 seconds. I was doing 360 damage per shot. Probably one of my best runs so far until I got overwhelmed by one of those red gate rooms.

Damn that's crazy I guess it suited your playstyle I just need more flexibility with attacking but I guess you can use your jump kicks if you need aerial attacks.
 

Brodo Baggins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,914
Damn that's crazy I guess it suited your playstyle I just need more flexibility with attacking but I guess you can use your jump kicks if you need aerial attacks.

In general I don't like the ranged classes either, but the combo of both the Ballista plus the relic just really offset their weaknesses. I feel like the relics and weapons do a really good job diversifying the gameplay across runs.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,078
Really happy to see there's a option to lock a class of your choice, should've checked that soul store sooner.

Also I love how certain classes trivialize some bosses. I already mentioned the archer with the second boss, but now I was struggling against the fifth until I decided to try the Bard (which I only used once and never picked again) and killed it with barely any effort just jumping on my notes on the top left of the screen lol
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,480
Finally finished a complete run, my legacy has finally been written after countless runs, had 50 HP left when I bested the final boss.

The ronin has by far been my favorite class due to its high damage output and range, it's a very solid performer in many situations.

Gonna give the game a few days off and pick it up when my Steam deck arrives, what a great game.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,937
California
i just finished the forth boss and now I don't know where to go. I went to dried up lake area but I don't think this is correct because it jumps from 4-star to a 6-star level. Also it's dark and I don't know if the artifact for that level allows me to see.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,078
i just finished the forth boss and now I don't know where to go. I went to dried up lake area but I don't think this is correct because it jumps from 4-star to a 6-star level. Also it's dark and I don't know if the artifact for that level allows me to see.

Where you first meet the pizza girl, the 5 star area is above it. Can't remember exactly where you find it but I think it's in the second area?
 

Happy Puppy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,480
It's very much feeling like a F2P title in this way. I'm half expecting it to tell me I can buy 500 ore with real dollars soon.
lol ... fuck, at times it does feel like that. I only do gold runes cause of that. When you have over 100% gold gain it feels nice.
 
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ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,000
The further I get the lower my opinion of the game becomes.

I know the grind was Rogue Legacy's thing, but this takes it to an absurd degree. You can do entire runs and level up 1 thing from the tree. And it feels like the game is balanced are you spending hours grinding because as you get to the later areas everything hits ridiculously hard, probably counting on you having a ton of armor upgrades, and the bosses become giant wads of HP.

This is not a game that respects the player's time, but I think that's the point. The game is built to be a giant time sink of grinding. I've played around 10 hours and had my fill though. I can feel myself getting bored with it.

It is weird, but I remember the first one being pretty much the same--a game that should've been 10-20 hours stretched to 50+. So I can't say it's particularly surprising.

It's not enough to ruin the game for me at all cause I'm finding the moment-to-moment gameplay so much fun (spent a big part of yesterday just doing challenge runs with high gold multiplier traits, not even trying to progress the "story"), but I definitely agree that it is simply way unnecessarily grindy. I really wish there was a gold multiplier option in the house rules. Probably going to mess around with cheat engine today, see if I can do the multiplier stuff myself.
 

Edward

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,104
Geeez this game is tough! I breezed through Returnal compared to this.
I breezed through Returnal, Hades, Rogue Legacy 1 and Dead Cells.

I'm getting fucked slapped around like a goddamn ragdoll in this game to the point where after 2 hours i feel like i have made absolutely no progression.
 

Shiki

Member
Nov 30, 2017
507
on NG+ 3 and just activated a burden making the first biome harder... jesus... they were not kidding XD

The gold issue some are having is only a problem on the first run, at least in my experience. After I unlocked the gold gain perk (unlocked from soul shop, trait is right above pirate) and boosted the negative trait gold bonus, it made a world of difference. I cleaned 5 biomes and raked in 120k. Enough to buy 10~ upgrades... and that's NG+1. Where I'm at in NG+3, I'm getting 40k-ish just from Agartha and still buying plenty of upgrades each run.
 

Shiki

Member
Nov 30, 2017
507
I breezed through Returnal, Hades, Rogue Legacy 1 and Dead Cells.

I'm getting fucked slapped around like a goddamn ragdoll in this game to the point where after 2 hours i feel like i have made absolutely no progression.

*breezed* through Dead cells O_O ? 5 boss cells ? Must be something I'm doing wrong cause I'm at 3 boss cells and I'm *NEVER* beating that... let alone 4-5 boss cells and the true final dungeon. I find RL2 much much easier than Dead cells (unless we're talking about the first run only ?)
 

wrhwk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
681
Szeged, Hungary
I breezed through Returnal, Hades, Rogue Legacy 1 and Dead Cells.

I'm getting fucked slapped around like a goddamn ragdoll in this game to the point where after 2 hours i feel like i have made absolutely no progression.

The odd thing is that I feel the complete opposite. Is it a tough game? For sure. Do I feel like I make some progress? All the time!
I think this is where the game shines, that no matter how your run ends, at point you'll always make some progress. Picking up a new heirloom, getting enough xp to rank up a class, getting some gold to upgrade the manor, buy a new armor / rune or just giving it to Charon for that sweet stat upgrade. And it feels like the smallest upgrades can mean to world, that 1% higher chance to crit can be the difference on winning or losing a boss fight.
10 hours in, 2 bosses down and can't stop loving this game, easily on this years goty list for me.
 

Edward

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,104
*breezed* through Dead cells O_O ? 5 boss cells ? Must be something I'm doing wrong cause I'm at 3 boss cells and I'm *NEVER* beating that... let alone 4-5 boss cells and the true final dungeon. I find RL2 much much easier than Dead cells (unless we're talking about the first run only ?)
I've fully beaten Dead Cells on 3 platforms with relative ease. The iframe from dodging gives you such a massive advantage. I think maybe it's just more my speed/style.

RL2 i just can't deal with i think i might be just under 2 hours for a refund which is unfortunate because i want to like the game.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,000
I've fully beaten Dead Cells on 3 platforms with relative ease. The iframe from dodging gives you such a massive advantage. I think maybe it's just more my speed/style.

RL2 i just can't deal with i think i might be just under 2 hours for a refund which is unfortunate because i want to like the game.

Try changing the house rules before refunding, the no contact damage one in particular made the game a lot more manageable (and fun!) to me.
 

B4mv

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,054
The fact that this game supports 32:9 5120 x 1440p out of the box is just sublime.
It plays SO well. Been absolutely addicted so far.
 

Happy Puppy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,480
on NG+ 3 and just activated a burden making the first biome harder... jesus... they were not kidding XD

The gold issue some are having is only a problem on the first run, at least in my experience. After I unlocked the gold gain perk (unlocked from soul shop, trait is right above pirate) and boosted the negative trait gold bonus, it made a world of difference. I cleaned 5 biomes and raked in 120k. Enough to buy 10~ upgrades... and that's NG+1. Where I'm at in NG+3, I'm getting 40k-ish just from Agartha and still buying plenty of upgrades each run.
Just finished a run with 120k gold clearing all biomes. I guess it's time to beat the game. Hope NG+ doesn't go crazy with the jump in difficulty.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,037
The boss behind the golden door is such a joy to fight.

I expected something much different than what's back there :3
 

Bulebule

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,803
Is it possible to choose the class for your heir at some point or is it going to be randomized three choices every time?
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,214
Am I right in thinking that each zone has their own limited pool of runes and blueprints? I noticed that I stopped getting new runes from fairy chests in the first area.

Is it possible to choose the class for your heir at some point or is it going to be randomized three choices every time?

There is a castle upgrade to reroll them, and I saw something about locking in a class somewhere.
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,480
Am I right in thinking that each zone has their own limited pool of runes and blueprints? I noticed that I stopped getting new runes from fairy chests in the first area.

Yes, the unlocks in a zone will refresh when you get to NG+, unsure if every player get the same pool of runes/blueprints in the same order, or if it's tied to the seed of your game.
 

PeterVenkman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
I know the game isn't balanced this way, but I'd love to replay some bosses that I've already beaten - most rougelites expect you to clear everything in one go, and I forgot that's not how RL does it.

Is there any option later to replay old bosses?
 

Shiki

Member
Nov 30, 2017
507
I know the game isn't balanced this way, but I'd love to replay some bosses that I've already beaten - most rougelites expect you to clear everything in one go, and I forgot that's not how RL does it.

Is there any option later to replay old bosses?

You will in new game + (threads) and every new one after that.
There's also the scars. I got one where you fight a pair of bosses. You can do those as much as you like.
 

Ryu bogard

Member
Nov 23, 2017
399
I beat 3 bosses and at the fourth area now. The game has gotten so grindy. I have spent hours just getting gold. Game progress has just stopped. It is really annoying. Some said earlier it feels like a mobile game and I have to agree.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,687
Massachusetts
As much as I love the game, yeah there are some runs where you'll make just enough money for an upgrade or two. It's definitely grindy, but sometimes those runs will at least include you getting more ore, aether, and runes.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,625
Going through the fourth world now and starting to feel the more grindy nature of the game. Initially I thought they had managed to address the issues from the first game since I felt the same there but instead it just happens later due to the increased amount of worlds. Enemies scale up a little too much at times so your upgrades feel like you're barely keeping up rather than getting noticably more powerful.
 

PeterVenkman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
You will in new game + (threads) and every new one after that.
There's also the scars. I got one where you fight a pair of bosses. You can do those as much as you like.

ah shit I forgot about those. I did that first one where you just walk to the right, and my brain threw away the memory.
 

Shiki

Member
Nov 30, 2017
507
ah shit I forgot about those. I did that first one where you just walk to the right, and my brain threw away the memory.

Yeah same at first. Came back to it because i needed the currency for the soul shop. Afaik, outside the first one, all of them are some sort of combat challenge. Some are pretty insane lol
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,000
Finished the game. Found the last two areas to be kind of unpleasant and unfun so I dropped enemy HP and attack to 50% in the house rules and just blazed through them. The golden door boss was a very pleasant surprise though, I haven't particularly enjoyed the way the bosses were designed in this but that one was a lot of fun.

I had a blast with the first 3 areas, but I agree with many of the others that it just gets too grindy after that. Enemies get strong and gold is relatively scarce, making for a fairly unsatisfying gameplay loop. All these things in the shop and skill tree that you simply won't be getting anytime soon cause the game is clearly designed to be played through multiple times, but it doesn't really tell you that and just sort of throws all of this at your face.

edit: oh and I genuinely hate the fairy challenges lmao, and I'm not really into the fact that you get the runes that way, cause some of those runes are ridiculously good.

Still absolutely love the moment-to-moment gameplay though so I'm definitely checking the NG+ stuff out.

Yeah same at first. Came back to it because i needed the currency for the soul shop. Afaik, outside the first one, all of them are some sort of combat challenge. Some are pretty insane lol

Seems like 50/50 combat challenges and target time trials. The combat challenges seem doable (even if stupidly chaotic and messy, since they often involve fighting dual bosses), but the time trials... I don't know how the hell you're supposed to do those if the max amount of empathies for a single challenge is 9.
 
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Sparks

Senior Games Artist
Verified
Dec 10, 2018
2,879
Los Angeles
Really happy to see there's a option to lock a class of your choice, should've checked that soul store sooner.

Also I love how certain classes trivialize some bosses. I already mentioned the archer with the second boss, but now I was struggling against the fifth until I decided to try the Bard (which I only used once and never picked again) and killed it with barely any effort just jumping on my notes on the top left of the screen lol
I read that mechanic like a few times and I still have no idea what that means. So you can lock skills or equipment to certain classes?
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,108
From playing this when it first released in to early access to now is surprisingly different. I didn't really jive early on because it seemed like every class but Knight felt off or weak, or just not as fun? Maybe I'm crazy, but could have sworn at least the mage was a bit different early on. Like his spell only damaged in the indicated circle or something? Anyways, to where it is now feels so refreshing. It's nice to never really avoid a class unless I have a specific intention for the run, it's usually the traits I avoid more than anything.

I think my one complaint would be sometimes not knowing what needs to happen to progress in the metroidvania context? Like I've basically wandered around after the second boss for a while with different runs and I could never find where to get one of the traversal moves. There were the two laurels in the area, but both seemed to need the traversal skill. I don't know if it's what actually kicked it off or what, but finally getting one of those finally triggered something so that I could finally find that trial.

I feel like the gating of those aspects can seem a bit weird? Not sure if this happens again in future areas, but this was a bit confusing.