Rocksteady received the following unsolicited letter

IMCaprica · Aug 20, 2020

Mandalorian said:
I'm sorry to you and others for this. I'm ashamed of trying to have a conversation in good faith, I should have known better from the first posts. I will not reply to this thread any longer, I feel like I'm involuntarily helping this thread being derailed and I'm not allowing this to happen again. This is an important issue for people constantly trying to derail, generalize or deflect. Hopefully this situation will be properly handled and not buried by people white knighting corporations.

I mean you blasted someone for saying "lol" and then you came at me sideways with an "lol" for not magically knowing where you lived. I don't know that not showing the same respect that was shown to you counts as "good faith", nor does actively evading other people's perspectives on the topic, or telling someone to get their "priorities in order" because they disagreed with you and you didn't like that.

I gave you suggestions (one of which didn't involve your government), and in a single sentence you simultaneously told me you were going to do as you see fit and also admitted your way of handling this situation was powerless because voting with your wallet doesn't hurt them.

To a certain extent you admitting that makes your handling of this issue at Rocksteady totally relevant to the actual topic, because it's a prime example of why things don't change. People are trying to show you why your way may not be as productive as you think, and your response is essentially "I don't care". I think it's lame you went so hard judging people only to admit your way doesn't actually do anything but you're stubbornly going to stick to it anyway. You want to talk to me about not doing victims any favors? Dude...

Spring-Loaded · Aug 20, 2020

Any word from WB Games yet? Rocksteady's statements have been completely so empty that the parent company needs to chime in.

Vash · Aug 20, 2020

Spring-Loaded said:
Any word from WB Games yet? Rocksteady's statements have been completely so empty that the parent company needs to chime in.

Nothing yet.

Kinda pissed off at the "gamers" attacking Kim on Twitter, thanks to what Rocksteady posted earlier.

Also glad to see developers speak up about what the studio did, and condemning them for it. With that PR/HR statement. Trying to paint Kim, who only spoke up about the situation because she felt she needed to when the letter was leaked (not by her, from my understanding), as the bad guy in all this.

Spring-Loaded · Aug 20, 2020

Vash said:
Nothing yet.

Kinda pissed off at the "gamers" attacking Kim on Twitter, thanks to what Rocksteady posted earlier.

Also glad to see developers speak up about what the studio did, and condemning them for it. With that PR/HR statement. Trying to paint Kim, who only spoke up about the situation because she felt she needed to when the letter was leaked (not by her, from my understanding), as the bad guy in all this.

I haven't even looked at general twitter responses since that garbage seems almost inevitable. It's cowardly of Rocksteady to have further throwing MacAskill under the bus be their first public response. They could've easily weathered public blowback after making a real acknowledgement of their wrongdoing.

Hopefully more prominent figures in the industry show their support for the victims here. Feels like that's the only way some fans will care.

BetoJR · Aug 20, 2020

Vash said:
Kinda pissed off at the "gamers" attacking Kim on Twitter, thanks to what Rocksteady posted earlier.

That kinda behavior makes you feel like gamers should stop being considered a "good" category of people, doesn't it? At least, it makes me not want to identify as one, anymore.

spman2099 · Aug 20, 2020

Spring-Loaded said:
I haven't even looked at general twitter responses since that garbage seems almost inevitable. It's cowardly of Rocksteady to have further throwing MacAskill under the bus be their first public response. They could've easily weathered public blowback after making a real acknowledgement of their wrongdoing.

Hopefully more prominent figures in the industry show their support for the victims here. Feels like that's the only way some fans will care.

They knew what they were doing when they deflected with that letter. They knew that a lot of their fanbase would use that to go after MacAskill. They did it anyway, furthering the abuse they have inflicted on that woman. If they had really cleaned up their shit they would have made a good faith gesture towards MacAskill, instead they have left her to twist in the wind. What an awful, awful company.

Doc Holliday · Aug 20, 2020

https://twitter.com/_kateharrison/status/1296420331847143426?s=21

Sadly the cases of harassment in this industry are all too prevalent. I'm aware of certain events at Rocksteady that took place and in no way discounting anything that the girls experienced. Said instances were dealt with by management with the UTMOST urgency and professionalism.

The claims that nothing was done to improve life for us as women there are inaccurate. As soon as the letter was received, the women were brought into a series of meetings by management to discuss how we could make the studio better.

WordsintheWater · Aug 20, 2020

Doc Holliday said:
https://twitter.com/_kateharrison/status/1296420331847143426?s=21

So going off this, the letter is real and the complaints were handled by management. We have 2 very different accounts from women previously on the team.

Oneandonly16 · Aug 20, 2020

WordsintheWater said:
So going off this, the letter is real and the complaints were handled by management. We have 2 very different accounts from women previously on the team.

Yeah that makes the situation a little odd. Two completely different takeaways from how Rocksteady changed, or didn't, after the letter. If you take into account the tweets from the previous page, there is another current employee that validated this letter and claims that the women that were involved actually do think it's changed for the better.

If Rocksteady has changed within the two years that's great.

Alienous · Aug 20, 2020

Doc Holliday said:
https://twitter.com/_kateharrison/status/1296420331847143426?s=21

This seems skewed to me. First it's an ex-employee speaking with confidence on the state of the studio currently. Then there's the claim that the letter was inaccurate, but feeling ostracised by other employees who saw the letter as accurate. Then there's the claim that instances of harassment were dealt handled with "utmost urgency", which, how would you know - and what does that pertain to if the letter was inaccurate?

I wouldn't think anything of it if the last tweets didn't suggest this controversy as a conniving act of revenge. That seems biased to me.

This all feels like it needs to be filtered through a journalistic process.

rras1994 · Aug 20, 2020

Doc Holliday said:
https://twitter.com/_kateharrison/status/1296420331847143426?s=21

If she's a talent acquisition specialist as it says in her twitter bio, wouldn't that probably make her hr when she was at Rocksteady?

udivision · Aug 20, 2020

BetoJR said:
That kinda behavior makes you feel like gamers should stop being considered a "good" category of people, doesn't it? At least, it makes me not want to identify as one, anymore.

"Playing games" is too broad of a description to assign anyone positive or negative categorization based only on that.

spman2099 · Aug 20, 2020

Doc Holliday said:
https://twitter.com/_kateharrison/status/1296420331847143426?s=21

It makes me feel really uncomfortable that Kate Harrison seems to be intentionally providing a stick for the online masses to beat MacAskill with...

Like, even if things have improved, where is the solidarity on that front? Also, why is there intentional deflection of more recent accusations and, once again, an apparent attempt to further the abuse of someone who had already been mistreated by Rocksteady in the past?

It is pretty hard for me to believe these claims of everything having improved so dramatically when they clearly have done nothing to right the wrongs of the past (especially in regards to MacAskill). Maybe conditions are far better now, they sure as hell should be trying to reach out to the people who experienced the awful conditions in the past. People who were wrongfully terminated due to these conditions.

ItchyTasty · Aug 20, 2020

spman2099 said:
It makes me feel really uncomfortable that Kate Harrison seems to be intentionally providing a stick for the online masses to beat MacAskill with...

Like, even if things have improved, where is the solidarity on that front? Also, why is there intentional deflection of more recent accusations and, once again, an apparent attempt to further the abuse of someone who had already been mistreated by Rocksteady in the past?

It is pretty hard for me to believe these claims of everything having improved when they clearly have done nothing to right the wrongs of the past (especially in regards to MacAskill).

Sounds kinda like "I'm okay with it, so everyone else should also be okay with it"

Fact remains that at least 1 out of the original 8 abused that remained within the company still doesn't think that it's okay. Even if it's only one it is one too many.

Edit: and given that a senior writer was fired for being a "troublemaker" I fail to see how this letter can be 100% unsolicited, given the implication that they could lose their job in the middle of a pandemic for not being agreeable.

Gitaroo · Aug 20, 2020

How big is the studio?

N75 · Aug 20, 2020

spman2099 said:
It makes me feel really uncomfortable that Kate Harrison seems to be intentionally providing a stick for the online masses to beat MacAskill with...

Like, even if things have improved, where is the solidarity on that front? Also, why is there intentional deflection of more recent accusations and, once again, an apparent attempt to further the abuse of someone who had already been mistreated by Rocksteady in the past?

It is pretty hard for me to believe these claims of everything having improved so dramatically when they clearly have done nothing to right the wrongs of the past (especially in regards to MacAskill). Maybe conditions are far better now, they sure as hell should be trying to reach out to the people who experienced the awful conditions in the past. People who were wrongfully terminated due to these conditions.

She also claims that it was done to sabotage the reveal of their new game, which is a pretty shitty to say.

Same goes for her recently liked tweets. Like these:

Vash · Aug 20, 2020

ItchyTasty said:
Sounds kinda like "I'm okay with it, so everyone else should also be okay with it"

Fact remains that at least 1 out of the original 8 abused that remained within the company still doesn't think that it's okay. Even if it's only one it is one too many.

Edit: and given that a senior writer was fired for being a "troublemaker" I fail to see how this letter can be 100% unsolicited, given the implication that they could lose their job in the middle of a pandemic for not being agreeable.

Aye, and there's the rub. The way the letter was written, the way it was put out there, the fact that at least one of the women there kept liking tweets attacking Kim, and has only worked there for the past 9 months. It feels completely off.

I hope there will be more investigations and rapports about this situation to bring a lot more clarity.

The posts by Kate and Elly also ignore the tweets done by other ex-employees who also state they left because of the toxic environment at the studio. They just go all in on Kim.

Edit: I am also happy to see many other outlets putting up articles surrounding this situation.

Gamasutra: In 2018, women came forward about misconduct at Rocksteady - and were ignored
Rock Paper Shotgun: Rocksteady's response to sexual harrassment allegations is inappropriate and bizarre
GameIndustry.biz: Ex-Rocksteady writer asks for name to be left off Suicide Squad credits

Among other notable websites.

Edit 2:

Gitaroo said:
How big is the studio?

Currently, about 230 people I believe.

Mandalorian · Aug 20, 2020

Vash said:
Nothing yet.

Kinda pissed off at the "gamers" attacking Kim on Twitter, thanks to what Rocksteady posted earlier.

Also glad to see developers speak up about what the studio did, and condemning them for it. With that PR/HR statement. Trying to paint Kim, who only spoke up about the situation because she felt she needed to when the letter was leaked (not by her, from my understanding), as the bad guy in all this.

Spring-Loaded said:
I haven't even looked at general twitter responses since that garbage seems almost inevitable. It's cowardly of Rocksteady to have further throwing MacAskill under the bus be their first public response. They could've easily weathered public blowback after making a real acknowledgement of their wrongdoing.

Hopefully more prominent figures in the industry show their support for the victims here. Feels like that's the only way some fans will care.

What is more enraging to me is that it's not even just "gamers". They were dog whistled by Rocksteady and are proceeding as expected. What is abhorrent is that there are current Rocksteady Studios employees participating on the piling and victim blaming:

Those tweets attacking, gaslighting and victim blaming Kim MacAskill might be coming from a "gamer", but it was liked by at least three current Rocksteady Studios employees. All I know is that I'm definitely going to be giving my money towards Fable and that Rocksteady Studios might not ever see my money again, I'm just way too disgusted by this.

Meanwhile, WB Games is left unchecked, protected by "gamers" more worried about their games than people going through what Kim MacAskill stood up to.

Edit:

I'm heartbroken:

They will end up successfully silencing her, won't they?

Wereroku · Aug 20, 2020

Mandalorian said:
What is more enraging to me is that it's not even just "gamers". They were dog whistled by Rocksteady and are proceeding as expected. What is abhorrent is that there are current Rocksteady Studios employees participating on the piling and victim blaming:

Those tweets attacking, gaslighting and victim blaming Kim MacAskill might be coming from a "gamer", but it was liked by at least three current Rocksteady Studios employees. All I know is that I'm definitely going to be giving my money towards Fable and that Rocksteady Studios might not ever see my money again, I'm just way too disgusted by this.

Meanwhile, WB Games is left unchecked, protected by "gamers" more worried about their games than people going through what Kim MacAskill stood up to.

Edit:

I'm heartbroken:

They will end up successfully silencing her, won't they?

It kind of sucks in several ways. We have had many instances of women's stories being shared without their permission with the general agreement that it's not right to do that. So she did go against their trust in that case. However she still had her own story that deserves to be heard no matter if some of the women involved believe it's not true anymore. I feel bad for her because I'm sure she didn't mean to upset any of the women that went through the abuse as well.

Psykoboy2 · Aug 20, 2020

I'm almost certain nothing will come of this. The weekend will come and go, and...whatever they show at the DC event will likely have record numbers of views on YouTube and they'll all be popping bottles back at the studio on a successful reveal.

I would LOVE to be wrong, and I hope I am, but...

Vash · Aug 20, 2020

From what I see, Kim stands by her story, her truth. I don't think she'll be silenced though. And the deal back then was to keep it quiet, internal. That is fine.

But the moment the letter, or talk about it, was published, that agreement was off anyway. Someone leaked it, and while it's not Kim from what I've seen, she is being piled up on because "how dare she speak up now!"

I think that because she confirmed the existence of the letter, they no could no longer deny it being a real thing. Hence the attacks directed at her.

I fully understand the women who felt blindsided by her, and in hindsight Kim admitted she did mess up. It's a shame it happened, but Rocksteady made the situation worse by sharing the "unsolicited" letter through that tweet. It's definitely inappropriate, because that is the only response we've seen coming from official channels.

est1992 · Aug 20, 2020

I think what we got going on now is a tale of two perspectives.

Nobody is denying what happened at Rocksteady in the years prior to this letter. There was sexual harassment in abundance and the women there felt compelled enough to write a letter to the studio heads and agreed to all keep it internal. That much is consistent between all these stories.

Where the disagreements come in is Rocksteady's reaction to said letter and grievances. Some women that worked/still work there feel like Rocksteady didn't do enough, such as Kim. Others at Rocksteady feel like they have improved.

The fact is, both of these things can be right simultaneously, because it's all based on the perspectives of said women. We on the outside have no idea what's happened at that studio, only they do, so we're only getting second/third hand information of the events.

Until a majority of the women and others speak up about what happened and we have a more clear/skewed perspective, I don't think we'll have a conclusion as to how Rocksteady handled the sexual harassment in their workplace.

Vash · Aug 20, 2020

est1992 said:
I think what we got going on now is a tale of two perspectives.

Nobody is denying what happened at Rocksteady in the years prior to this letter. There was sexual harassment in abundance and the women there felt compelled enough to write a letter to the studio heads and agreed to all keep it internal. That much is consistent between all these stories.

Where the disagreements come in is Rocksteady's reaction to said letter and grievances. Some women that worked/still work there feel like Rocksteady didn't do enough, such as Kim. Others at Rocksteady feel like they have improved.

The fact is, both of these things can be right simultaneously, because it's all based on the perspectives of said women. We on the outside have no idea what's happened at that studio, only they do, so we're only getting second/third hand information of the events.

Until a majority of the women and others speak up about what happened and we have a more clear/skewed perspective, I don't think we'll have a conclusion as to how Rocksteady handled the sexual harassment in their workplace.

Which is why it's important that an investigation is being done, by an independent party. And right now, I have no trust in Rocksteady doing that, making it a case for their current owners at WB Games. But that is my take.

est1992 · Aug 20, 2020

Vash said:
Which is why it's important that an investigation is being done, by an independent party. And right now, I have no trust in Rocksteady doing that, making it a case for their current owners at WB Games. But that is my take.

Now that WB Games is under the wider Warner Brothers "Studios and Networks" umbrella I think they will. I've seen how they handle their investigations on the film/tv side and they don't play.

EDIT: Like I said, they don't play.

Now that WB Games is fully integrated into WarnerMedia, I think this will happen soon.

Princess Bubblegum · Aug 20, 2020

Brilliant move on Rocksteady's part, pit women against each other or at least use that to deflect the allegations. This is a fine mess.

spman2099 · Aug 20, 2020

All the people taking this opportunity to kick Kim MacAskill while she is down are genuinely disgusting. The amount of women looking to silence her are especially awful. I wonder how many big companies will follow in Rocksteady's footsteps in the future? It seems like they were able to rather effectively paint themselves as victims while simultaneously driving their victims further into the ground. I doubt they will ever suffer any real consequences for this. What an awful, awful company.

Garlador · Aug 20, 2020

Vash said:
Which is why it's important that an investigation is being done, by an independent party. And right now, I have no trust in Rocksteady doing that, making it a case for their current owners at WB Games. But that is my take.

Is an investigation underway? If not, how can we petition them to launch one?

Wereroku · Aug 20, 2020

SapphiCine said:
Brilliant move on Rocksteady's part, pit women against each other or at least use that to deflect the allegations. This is a fine mess.

I mean I can understand why some women are mad about their agreed upon privacy being invaded. I don't think this is all some elaborate plot by Rocksteady.

spman2099 said:
All the people taking this opportunity to kick Kim MacAskill while she is down are genuinely disgusting. The amount of women looking to silence her are especially awful. I wonder how many big companies will follow in Rocksteady's footsteps in the future? It seems like they were able to rather effectively paint themselves as victims while simultaneously driving their victims further into the ground. I doubt they will ever suffer any real consequences for this. What an awful, awful company.

Yeah they really shouldn't be going that hard on her. She agreed that she should have gotten permission before sharing so much but she also deserves to have her side heard.

Princess Bubblegum · Aug 20, 2020

Wereroku said:
I mean I can understand why some women are mad about their agreed upon privacy being invaded. I don't think this is all some elaborate plot by Rocksteady.

Every act by a corporation is calculated, especially PR actions like this. Just look how they framed this "unsolicited letter."

Wereroku · Aug 20, 2020

SapphiCine said:
Every act by a corporation is calculated, especially PR actions like this.

Sorry I thought you meant the whole thing was generated by Rocksteady. They are certainly using the letter as a bludgeon against criticism but the feelings of the women behind it seems genuine. It just seems like every party could have handled this better.

Princess Bubblegum · Aug 20, 2020

Wereroku said:
Sorry I thought you meant the whole thing was generated by Rocksteady. They are certainly using the letter as a bludgeon against criticism but the feelings of the women behind it seems genuine. It just seems like every party could have handled this better.

These kinds of situations are always going to be messy. Ideally, Rocksteady would have announced that they are getting an independent party to investigate and evaluate the allegations, and released a statement regarding what they did at the time to remedy the situation. Seeing as how the full contents of the letter given to The Guardian was not made public, Rocksteady releasing this rebuttal letter was an even more terrible idea.

Garlador · Aug 20, 2020

Forbes article summed up my feelings on the matter well.

These needs further investigation.

Mandalorian · Aug 20, 2020

spman2099 said:
It makes me feel really uncomfortable that Kate Harrison seems to be intentionally providing a stick for the online masses to beat MacAskill with...

Like, even if things have improved, where is the solidarity on that front? Also, why is there intentional deflection of more recent accusations and, once again, an apparent attempt to further the abuse of someone who had already been mistreated by Rocksteady in the past?

It is pretty hard for me to believe these claims of everything having improved so dramatically when they clearly have done nothing to right the wrongs of the past (especially in regards to MacAskill). Maybe conditions are far better now, they sure as hell should be trying to reach out to the people who experienced the awful conditions in the past. People who were wrongfully terminated due to these conditions.

The way that their current Rocksteady Studios employees are acting and actively engaging on attacks, dog piling, victim shaming and downright name calling towards a former employee that stood up against the abuse at their workplace, regardless how "out of hand" or precipitated Kim was by sharing her video without consulting with the other victims before (and even that is debatable since Kim claims she wasn't the one that leaked the letter), tells me everything I need to know about how an incredibly toxic the work environment at Rocksteady is right now, not only back then. Nevermind the bullshit PR stunt by Rocksteady with this "unsolicited letter", those taking turns at her on Twitter since yesterday are assholes and people that I'll try to make sure that I never support with my money.

Wereroku said:
It kind of sucks in several ways. We have had many instances of women's stories being shared without their permission with the general agreement that it's not right to do that. So she did go against their trust in that case. However she still had her own story that deserves to be heard no matter if some of the women involved believe it's not true anymore. I feel bad for her because I'm sure she didn't mean to upset any of the women that went through the abuse as well.

Wereroku said:
Sorry I thought you meant the whole thing was generated by Rocksteady. They are certainly using the letter as a bludgeon against criticism but the feelings of the women behind it seems genuine. It just seems like every party could have handled this better.

I think that's what SapphiCine means by saying that every act by a corporation is calculated, what is more disgraceful is that the current and former Rocksteady employees didn't have to take turns on the dog piling Kim is suffering: the "gamers rise up" crowd heard the dog whistle loud and clear.

The saving grace of this mess is that ironically, if you need actual proof that the environment at Rocksteady is a shithole, look no further than how their current employees are reacting on Twitter, I guess. "Taking back the narrative" by throwing a former employee telling her truth under the bus my ass.

Princess Bubblegum · Aug 20, 2020

Garlador said:
Forbes article summed up my feelings on the matter well.

These needs further investigation.

That article brings up some great points and articulates them better than I can.

It is not my place to speak for the seven women that Rocksteady says sent this letter. If they are truly happy with how their bosses handled this situation, then who am I to say otherwise? Just the same, I feel like someone has to speak up for the woman or women who are currently in the process of being silenced, because it seems like Rocksteady has already stopped listening. Why would Rocksteady have shared this letter if they didn't see it as a "win"?

The new letter states that the seven women feel that their privacy and desires have been disregarded by "the source or sources" who went to the media. They state they feel violated— and that is a terrible thing, full stop.

What is somewhat troubling though is that this statement comes right before the conclusion of the letter in which the writers affirm the "importance of any minority within the games industry to speak up and for studios to take seriously, as Rocksteady did at the time and continues to do, any allegations brought forward to work towards creating safe environments for us to work in so that we can make great games."

But how is any woman at Rocksteady supposed to feel comfortable coming forward in the future if the way it responds to controversy is by effectively pitting the women involved against each other— and further, doing it publicly?

We cannot have truly safe spaces in this industry until everyone feels they can speak up about harassment within games studios without fear of retaliation. Until they do, companies shouldn't be surprised when employees take their concerns public when they feel unheard.

Hasseigaku · Aug 20, 2020

There are about a thousand reasons you would be unhappy about this letter getting out, and most of them are not necessarily good ones.

It's highly likely that some of these women have clawed their way into leadership positions and/or have a lot at stake in the launch in their new game and thus have motivation to try and silence the content of this letter.

Maybe there have been genuine improvements, but some women have left and may have left because of their unhappiness.

But the video game industry doesn't like squeaky wheels, so some may be staying silent in order to preserve their careers.

Vash · Aug 20, 2020

Hey Mandalorian, can you share some of the posts those employees are making aimed at Kim, or in general? It might be best if you add this to the conversation here, and not everyone knows who are doing it or can even find the ones making such posts. Well, besides Elly and Kathy who have been shared here already.

And SapphiCine, that is a very good article about it, yeah.

Unfortunately, no such investigation is under way yet, but I hope people behind the scenes are talking. As Ray Fisher shared, it took them five weeks of interviews to decide to formally launch an independent investigation into Whedon, Johns and the others who have allegedly treated him and others terribly on the set of the reshoots. This his given me a bit more confidence they will, though I am still hesitant.

Hasseigaku · Aug 20, 2020

And hey, if they really did fire Kim in retaliation for putting that letter around, that is a huge fucking deal that should result in firings from the people involved in HR and management.

The idea that things are "safe" when people who retaliate are still allowed to keep their jobs is laughable.

And yeah, how the fuck does that employee that didn't sign that new letter feel right now? Are they going to get extra pressure from colleagues and management to fall in line?

Dreams-Visions · Aug 20, 2020

Garlador said:
Forbes article summed up my feelings on the matter well.

These needs further investigation.

good read.

Mandalorian · Aug 20, 2020

Vash said:
Hey Mandalorian, can you share some of the posts those employees are making aimed at Kim, or in general? It might be best if you add this to the conversation here, and not everyone knows who are doing it or can even find the ones making such posts. Well, besides Elly and Kathy who have been shared here already.

Oh well, it's a rabbit hole, but here we go:

Rocksteady Studios alumnus:

Current employee:

And then when you go through the likes and retweets of the current employees, we find shit like this:

https://twitter.com/roadmappodcast/status/1296237695593844739?s=21

https://twitter.com/arsinoi_riida/status/1296170105462763520?s=21

https://twitter.com/arthur_draws/status/1296161736752537601?s=21

https://twitter.com/irongamer15/status/1296140578661441542?s=21

It's not just about what they are posting, but also signal boosting, and I've seen several of those from both men and women that claim on their twitter accounts to currently work there. If you go through their Twitter profiles, it's filled with stuff like this. That's just not how you treat someone for speaking up, you liking said person or not.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that if things did improve to women still working there, amazing, I love to hear that. But showing that with some thin veiled snipes or some not veiled at all at people speaking up just tells me that the work environment there is indeed toxic as fuck.

Garlador · Aug 20, 2020

Mandalorian said:
It's not just about what they are posting, but also signal boosting, and I've seen several of those from both men and women that claim on their twitter accounts to currently work there. If you go through their Twitter profiles, it's filled with stuff like this. That's just not how you treat someone for speaking up, you liking said person or not.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that if things did improve to women still working there, amazing, I love to hear that. But showing that with some thin veiled snipes or some not veiled at all at people speaking up just tells me that the work environment there is indeed toxic as fuck.

The Forbes article mentioned this, but I'm always incredibly disturbed when a response to claims of abuse and mistreatment are dismissed with a "here's the REAL story! Let's RECLAIM the narrative!" rebuttal, by men and women both.

Even if your own experiences have been better, I find it selfish to assume that just because things improved for you (or even most everyone else) that the problems have been "fixed" or that if someone else continues to express their belief that change didn't occur to their satisfaction that they are overruled and that feeling is invalid.

Someone mentioned Ray Fisher's claims of mistreatment from Joss Whedon earlier. Many of Whedon's friends jumped to his defense, saying that's not the way he treated them and defended his character. It wouldn't matter if 100 people did this. It wouldn't matter if 1 million said he was great. If one person felt abused and mistreated, that one voice matters.

The dog-piling against a whisteblower like this is really gross to see. Even if her claims were unsubstantiated or refuted (and I'm not saying they are), if she sincerely felt the way she did, then a proper response would be to reach out and ask "how did we fail you? How did we continue to fail you? What do we need to do to fix this?" and then keep at it until the slighted party feels adequate measures have been taken.

Mandalorian · Aug 20, 2020

Garlador said:
The Forbes article mentioned this, but I'm always incredibly disturbed when a response to claims of abuse and mistreatment are dismissed with a "here's the REAL story! Let's RECLAIM the narrative!" rebuttal, both men and women both.

Even if your own experiences have been better, I find it selfish to assume that just because things improved for you (or even most everyone else) that the problems have been "fixed" or that if someone else continues to express their belief that change didn't occur to their satisfaction that they are overruled and that feeling is invalid.

Someone mentioned Ray Fisher's claims of mistreatment from Joss Whedon earlier. Many of Whedon's friends jumped to his defense, saying that's not the way he treated them and defended his character. It wouldn't matter if 100 people did this. It wouldn't matter if 1 million said he was great. If one person felt abused and mistreated, that one voice matters.

The dog-piling against a whisteblower like this is really gross to see. Even if her claims were unsubstantiated or refuted (and I'm not saying they are), if she sincerely felt the way she did, then a proper response would be to reach out and ask "how did we fail you? How did we continue to fail you? What do we need to do to fix this?" and then keep at it until the slighted party feels adequate measures have been taken.

This. It's so obvious that I'm taking aback at their reactions to this. Tribalism at its worst.

Garlador · Aug 20, 2020

Mandalorian said:
This. It's so obvious that I'm taking aback at their reactions to this. Tribalism at its worst.

Also a good read from Rock Paper Shotgun.

By sharing this letter before making their own statement, Rocksteady are distracting from their own problems (be they present or past) by pitting women against each other. That's shocking.

spman2099 · Aug 20, 2020

Garlador said:
Also a good read from Rock Paper Shotgun.

It is a nice that a few of these game journalists are calling this shit out for what it is. Though it would be nice to see even more of this.

Garlador · Aug 21, 2020

spman2099 said:
It is a nice that a few of these game journalists are calling this shit out for what it is. Though it would be nice to see even more of this.

The thing that's most frustrating to me is that you can believe the accounts of both the women who left and felt things weren't getting better or backslid, as well as believe the women who remain employed there who think the work environment is safe and respectful. In fact, anywhere I've ever worked that experienced these problems had similar "conflicting" accounts because not all women are treated the same by different individuals over different time spans.

Someone from Riot spoke out about how they had MANY women who claimed - rightly - that they experienced no harassment, abuse, or discrimination. It's irresponsible to take those voices of affirmation as the whole truth over the accusations of those that stated otherwise.

Even the originator of the 2018 letter stated in her video she too believed things had improved until she heard otherwise. That voice remains anonymous, but I can think of many reasons why they would wish to remain so if Rocksteady's first (and so far ONLY) response has been to use dissenting voices of other female employees as a shield to deflect from criticism and to paint the whistleblower as a spiteful ex-employee (a tactic I've also seen used against whistleblowers or abuse victims repeatedly).

Again, if Rocksteady truly took the accusations seriously, they never would have published an unsolicited letter as their only defense, pitting their female staff against each other. They would have said they were taking the claims seriously. I find it telling that they tout "7 out of 8" of the current employees signed the new letter... but that means someone is missing (or it could be another employee there who didn't sign the original letter). Making it out as a "we scored 7/8 on our sexual harassment test! Which means we PASS!" victory lap is... gross.

What's clear as day is they absolutely don't think there's a problem, that enough women there think they're doing a good enough job to not investigate the new claims, and that they are fully dismissing and attempting to discredit a voice who called them out on their BS in the first place.

Spring-Loaded · Aug 21, 2020

Garlador said:
Again, if Rocksteady truly took the accusations seriously, they never would have published an unsolicited letter as their only defense, pitting their female staff against each other. They would have said they were taking the claims seriously. I find it telling that they tout "7 out of 8" of the current employees signed the new letter... but that means someone is missing (or it could be another employee there who didn't sign the original letter). Making it out as a "we scored 7/8 on our sexual harassment test! Which means we PASS!" victory lap is... gross.

This is the most damning part imo, though it's all bad.

All of this completely sidesteps what happened with the abusers. Even if things actually improved, Rocksteady (through the letter the company tweeted out) shifts focus entirely on the women working there, instead of saying the abusers were held accountable and those individuals had to go through training, and they changed their behaviour, etc. All attention is on the women staff, current and former, which inevitably pits their statements against one another.

It's just really disheartening, irresponsible at best, callous and calculated at worst.

Garlador · Aug 21, 2020

A bit of an update, it appears that Rocksteady is employing an independent third-party to investigate the claims.

While I still vehemently disagree with using their current female staff's letter as their first-response, these are the appropriate steps to take.

Vash · Aug 24, 2020

Agreed. And Kim MacAskill also responded to that with her own tweets. I'm not going to trust Rocksteady just yet, because of that first letter, but I hope the necessary changes will be made, and we won't get another report by The Guardian, or other sources.

Rocksteady received the following unsolicited letter

self-requested temp ban

Alt account

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.

Alt account

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.

Alt account

Alt account