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Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,655
Agree. The self-awareness in this thread is *whoosh*

Belligerent fanboys calling out others for being the fanboys. Good god.

There was definitely nothing wrong with this thread. It's a great PS for all the many people who aren't aware of how good the tracking actually is, and it gets pulled into the sewer because it dared mention a console company. *shakes head*

I mean even as a PSVR owners will tell you, the Moves are trash. Games need to have awkward control schemes to fit onto them.

And this thread isn't made in a bubble. I know some like to ignore context but I like to take it into account.

No one needs to like everything. And Arthand does have a bias against the PSVR. I feel like there's an attempt to excuse that fact.

Oculus Quest tracking is better than PSVR, but not as good as Rift/Vive, could have been the title but omitted that. We all know most don't read the actual articles.

It's pretty clear he does.

People in this thread completely ignore WHY it's news worthy that tracking tech only not long ago was not as accurate as PSVR is now more accurate. And instead, focus on someone having the temerity to point this out. Their platform of choice is being attacked!!! Quick, mount the defenses!

It's fanboy as hell.

Fanboys defending Fanboy against Fanboys.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Do the Oculus controllers have rumble and force feedback? One of my favorite parts about the moves is the way the rumble in your hand when you press both lightsabers against one another.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
No. The intention of this thread is. And that's why people react like this.

He's literally pointing out a fact.

Fact: This type of tracking technology was not as accurate as PSVR.

Fact: This type of technology, now in the quest is superior to PSVR. This is a significant change and improvement in this type of tracking technology which is likely to have implications for other headsets too in the future.

You: BUT FACTS HURT MY FAVORITE BRAND!!! ::tears::
 

Deleted member 3010

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Oct 25, 2017
10,974
Sure, PS Moves are very dated at this point, I'm still baffled Sony hasn't offered something better already.

Moves do the job, too, it's just that it could be soooo much better.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Do the Oculus controllers have rumble and force feedback? One of my favorite parts about the moves is the way the rumble in your hand when you press both lightsabers against one another.

yes, they do, all the VR controllers do. The Vive controllers even feature linear actuators, the so-called "HD rumble" that the switch has.
 

Deleted member 2625

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Oct 25, 2017
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Well... for my part, I believe the story... but I have a hard time imagining it, as I just have no trouble playing Beat Saber with the old Moves. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Deleted member 12352

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Interesting read, but I'm surprised that the article is actually about how Beat Saber runs on Oculus Quest. Seems weird to focus on the couple of mentions of PSVR in it that don't seem to say anything of real note.

At least it would seem weird from anybody else I guess.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
Interesting read, but I'm surprised that the article is actually about how Beat Saber runs on Oculus Quest. Seems weird to focus on the couple of mentions of PSVR in it that don't seem to say anything of real note.

At least it would seem weird from anybody else I guess.

For the umpteenth time, that is because we normally wouldn't expect this type of tracking to be superior even to PSVR's old wand system. Because it hasn't been.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Does Oculus Quest have a TV-out function? Beat Saber has been kind of a fun party game. It's not really the sort of thing I play alone anymore.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
Interesting read, but I'm surprised that the article is actually about how Beat Saber runs on Oculus Quest. Seems weird to focus on the couple of mentions of PSVR in it that don't seem to say anything of real note.

At least it would seem weird from anybody else I guess.

You can make a thread on select few quotes. But yeah, I would have posted the actual title (in this case) and top-down body text.
 

Deleted member 27315

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Oct 30, 2017
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He's literally pointing out a fact.

Fact: This type of tracking technology was not as accurate as PSVR.

Fact: This type of technology, now in the quest is superior to PSVR. This is a significant change and improvement in this type of tracking technology which is likely to have implications for other headsets too in the future.

You: BUT FACTS HURT MY FAVORITE BRAND!!! ::tears::

No.
We already know that moves are outdated(wow I say something bad for MY FAVORITE BRAND). Again, the intention of this thread and every VR thread by this poster is not to inform you about VR. Thats why people react. Not because of the obvious facts(moves are worse than any VR controller on the planet).

Ok now?
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
No, because we know that moves are outdated(wow I say something bad for MY FAVORITE BRAND). Again, the intention of this thread and every VR thread by this poster is not to inform you about VR. Thats why people react. Not because of the obvious facts.

Receipts? So far all I got is some obvious defense fanboys saying this about the poster.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
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I don't think people understand what is being said about accuracy here. Accuracy is the degree of correctness that a device reports it's position in space. In that regard, the Moves are VERY accurate, when they are not occluded they report their position in space with very close accuracy. The classic test of accuracy has been to use real world anchors -- place a controller in one spot at start up, move it away, then move it back to the origin spot, and see how much the virtual position diverges from the start position.

Things like the Windows VR headsets are not accurate, but they get away with it because it's not obvious without outside calibration that you're actually off a few millimeters from your origin position. Since the tracking is relative to the headset, the origin moves as well, hiding the inaccuracy.

RoadToVR understands all this. I have a ton of problems with the publication, especially how they hired Heany as an editor, but they DO understand this type of discrepancy.

Now, the playstation moves are accurate, but they are not reliable. They are very subject to occlusion, meaning you can move between line of sight. In this case, they cannot track, and the software goes wonky. This is not a problem of accuracy, this is a problem of reliability, and no duh these headsets are more reliable. What is being reported is NOT the reliability. This is a comment on the accuracy, and it absolutely is news if a markerless inside-out system is able to best the PSVR's outside-in tracking in accuracy.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
My previous post seemed like a fanboy's post to you? really?

I see a lot of attacking the poster who posted this, and not at all any technical refute of the claims from Road to VR. You guys know that ArtHands didn't write the article, right? The few attempts at a refute have been technologically weak claims, like "it's newer, of course it's better" without any apparent understanding of how the technology actually works.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
What the hell is going on in this thread lol you should be ashamed the lot of you.

I think inside-out tracking is one of the "musts" for VR to really kick off, so it's good news for VR that it's already working so well. Hopefully PSVR2 will make this a priority too.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,655
I see a lot of attacking the poster who posted this, and not at all any technical refute of the claims from Road to VR. You guys know that ArtHands didn't write the article, right? The few attempts at a refute have been technologically weak claims, like "it's newer, of course it's better" without any apparent understanding of how the technology actually works.

Uh... No one's saying Arthand wrote the article or that the article isn't accurate. That was never the claim at all. But he did write his own headline to the article.
 

Deleted member 27315

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Oct 30, 2017
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I see a lot of attacking the poster who posted this, and not at all any technical refute of the claims from Road to VR. You guys know that ArtHands didn't write the article, right? The few attempts at a refute have been technologically weak claims, like "it's newer, of course it's better" without any apparent understanding of how the technology actually works.
But the reason that he makes this thread is not this in the first place.

And why discuss the facts. They are facts no one disagrees. If I make a thread that says '' earth is spherical'', don't expect from me to really participate.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
But the reason that he makes this thread is not this in the first place.

And why discuss the facts. They are facts no one disagrees. If I make a thread thas says '' earth is spherical, don't expect from me to participate.

because, as I've noted several times before, previous attempts at this type of tracking did not surpass PSVR. This is actually noteworthy.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,655
So perhaps discuss the article instead of the poster.

Hey, when I see someone whose known for a bias against PSVR, making a more fanboy-baiting thread title. It's hard not to call that stuff out. Cause let's be clear. The tracking being better than the PSVR is good news as this kind of tracking is the next step to making VR more mainstream and viable for the average consumer... But it also isn't the full story. The quote itself even says that it's still not up to par with the Rift and Vive, but that would make for a more negative headline than he'd want because it might make the Quest look bad.
 

Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
4,023
It's awesome that our entry-level VR gaming options have went from "$400 for a headset tethered to a $300 console by annoying wires (worst VR controllers on the market sold separately)" to a completely wireless, room-scale out of the box standalone device at $400 in just 2.5 years. Can't freaking wait for release and to see what other companies do to respond to this VR form factor.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
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Hey, when I see someone whose known for a bias against PSVR, making a more fanboy-baiting thread title. It's hard not to call that stuff out. Cause let's be clear. The tracking being better than the PSVR is good news as this kind of tracking is the next step to making VR more mainstream and viable for the average consumer... But it also isn't the full story. The quote itself even says that it's still not up to par with the Rift and Vive, but that would make for a more negative headline than he'd want because it might make the Quest look bad.

I've seen Arthands post for years now, this claim that he has an "anti-sony bias" sounds very much like discrediting the author to shut down the conversation. It's one of the lowest rungs of this:

ae45707228778240125119e5b76f1852.jpg


If this topic is an example of "anti-sony bias" then I roll my eyes all over your fragile ego.

Markerless inside-out tracking not being superior to marker inside-out tracking is hardly shocking. Markerless inside-out tracking being superior to outside-in tracking, that's actually really shocking to people who understand the hardware.

Ok if you make a thread like this with this intention and a proper title. I will participate, at least I will read it. Now I am out.

I'm not exactly interested in whether you participate at all. By all means, get out, if it'll get the topic back on track.
 

pj-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
Did anyone really think oculus would release a device with worse tracking than psvr? psvr's tracking sucks even if you set it up perfectly and stay within the tiny volume it can deal with.

From the first santa cruz demo reports it never entered my mind that it possibly would be WORSE than psvr
 

Deleted member 984

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Oct 25, 2017
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In this case PSVR is a good reference point. There have been a lot of questions over Quests quality of tracking. PSVR is very competent in comparison to the PC version of Beat Saber and only in expert+ problems start to arises.

If Quests version of BS holds up well in terms of tracking against the PSVR version then it only means good things for VR overall and the progression of the tech.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,655
I've seen Arthands post for years now, this claim that he has an "anti-sony bias" sounds very much like discrediting the author to shut down the conversation. It's one of the lowest rungs of this:

ae45707228778240125119e5b76f1852.jpg


If this topic is an example of "anti-sony bias" then I roll my eyes all over your fragile ego.

Markerless inside-out tracking not being superior to marker inside-out tracking is hardly shocking. Markerless inside-out tracking being superior to outside-in tracking, that's actually really shocking to people who understand the hardware.

I didn't say anti-sony bias. Cause there is a difference. We already have users on here who love PS4 but hate that Sony is pushing PSVR.

Also I've seen his posts before. If he didn't have a history of stuff like this then no one would be mentioning it. If you for example had made this thread I'd not think anything of it.

Edit: See the mod post so I'm backing out.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
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It really isn't news. I mean they have been working on perfecting this with millions of dollars in Research and the Moves have been frozen in time for about a decade.

I mean come on.

John Carmack gave a speech at the very first oculus connect explaining to laymen how engineering feats progress, using tracking as his very example. Paraphrasing, he said engineering occurs in two phases; first you do things correctly but logistically impossible, and then work backwards from there, slowly solving the logistical impossibility while eroding the correctness. With regards to tracking, he said that everybody knows how to do absolute positional tracking correctly -- referring to outside in and markered inside out tracking -- but that's logistically a nightmare for the end user to set up. The opposite, a logistically simple solution, that approaches the "correct" way to track, is orders of magnitude more difficult to solve.

That's what's being demonstrated here. All these posts about how the Move is old, they're not getting it. The Move is demonstrating the second most accurate form of tracking known to humanity. Only markered inside-out tracking is more correct.

This is very much news, this is how engineering goes. If Quest truly is more accurate than the PSVR's outside in tracking, that is a significant milestone development.

You can hear his thoughts on the subject here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqzpAbK9qFk
 

afrodubs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,093
He's literally pointing out a fact.

Fact: This type of tracking technology was not as accurate as PSVR.

Fact: This type of technology, now in the quest is superior to PSVR. This is a significant change and improvement in this type of tracking technology which is likely to have implications for other headsets too in the future.

You: BUT FACTS HURT MY FAVORITE BRAND!!! ::tears::
There's several ways that this thread could have been framed. The OP is probably aware that the way he's framed it would have lead to this type of reception (based on previous interactions). I've queried why he does this previously but never received a response let alone an answer.

We all like the same hobby, and most of us here are very interested in VR. So I personally, don't see why you wouldn't frame it differently. For example, using the title from the linked article, which would have had no backlash don't you think?

I've asked him before and I'll ask you and others in this thread. Shouldn't we be supporting each other? (VR is niche as fuck right now and often the subject of shitposting) There's no point belittling posters for their reaction in here, no point firing shots at each other over tracking and exclusives, no point denigrating each others equipment.... We should all just stfu and enjoy our hobby recognising that we all fans of the same thing. 😂

Don't ya think??
 
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Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
4,023
This is very much news, this is how engineering goes. If Quest truly is more accurate than the PSVR's outside in tracking, that is a significant milestone development.

Yeah, it's a pretty noteworthy breakthrough being brought to market via a platform that basically cuts the previous barrier to entry for VR gaming in half and people are like "so what who cares everybody knows"

lol what? We're about to have access to portable, room scale VR at $400 two years after the PSVR HMD itself released at that price point. It's a huge leap and it's silly to pretend that the market at large is just going to understand this leap without the comparisons to other headsets being highlighted.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I've really been wanting to play this. Is the PSVR version decent at least, or should I wait?

The main downside to the PSVR version is that it lacks mod support. Now, there was something interesting in the latest EULA update to Beatsaber that actually explicitly prohibited Mod support in all versions of the game, excepting an "exemption" clause granted to individual users on a case by case basis. This is note worthy because the PC Version has a vibrant mod community, where the vast majority of songs are actually user created. This has lead to speculation that the change in EULA was in anticipation of the Quest version, which should be more locked down like the PSVR version, but might be open to the possibility of hacking or side loading.

All that said, yes, Beat Saber is still super fun on the PSVR, and if that's all you have available to you, by all means jump in.

For my money, SuperHot VR and Beat Saber are probably the two most easily accessible VR games around, and they're on EVERYTHING that supports 6dof (lenovo mirage solo exempted). They're both worth getting on any platform.
 

Deleted member 8468

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Oct 26, 2017
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The main downside to the PSVR version is that it lacks mod support. Now, there was something interesting in the latest EULA update to Beatsaber that actually explicitly prohibited Mod support in all versions of the game, excepting an "exemption" clause granted to individual users on a case by case basis. This is note worthy because the PC Version has a vibrant mod community, where the vast majority of songs are actually user created. This has lead to speculation that the change in EULA was in anticipation of the Quest version, which should be more locked down like the PSVR version, but might be open to the possibility of hacking or side loading.

All that said, yes, Beat Saber is still super fun on the PSVR, and if that's all you have available to you, by all means jump in.

For my money, SuperHot VR and Beat Saber are probably the two most easily accessible VR games around, and they're on EVERYTHING that supports 6dof (lenovo mirage solo exempted). They're both worth getting on any platform.
Thanks for the info. I had no idea there was a mod community on PC. I have a Rift as well, but my PC setup doesn't allow space for VR at the moment. I'll probably pick it up on PS4, I love me some good rhythm games.

I did play Superhot VR and agree completely, one of the best and coolest VR things I've ever seen.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Thanks for the info. I had no idea there was a mod community on PC. I have a Rift as well, but my PC setup doesn't allow space for VR at the moment. I'll probably pick it up on PS4, I love me some good rhythm games.

I did play Superhot VR and agree completely, one of the best and coolest VR things I've ever seen.

I'd say the mod community is what created the word of mouth that made Beat Saber take off in the first place. It's how you got songs like this:



To make up for it, the PSVR version of Beat Saber included a lot of exclusive songs not in the PC Version. The Quest version is supposed to have all those songs as well.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
PSVR has limitations, but games like Beat Saber (where big swings are involved) are absolutely fine on PSVR. The tracking catches those types of movements really well and the swings constantly recalibrate positioning, so you don't get drift.

What a weird thread.
 

Fall Damage

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,057
I'm always happy to hear anything positive about markerless inside out tracking. The cost reduction and convenience it brings seem like a must for future VR iterations.
 

afrodubs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,093
I think inside-out tracking is one of the "musts" for VR to really kick off, so it's good news for VR that it's already working so it's good news for VR that it's already working so well. Hopefully PSVR2 will make this a priority too.
Indeed, gotta be the choice of tracking they go with surely?
 
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Th3BranMan

Member
Nov 8, 2017
684
I was torn between waiting it out for the Quest, or picking up a PSVR. I ended up with the latter. I knew that the mobile chipset in the quest, while impressive, would not be able to provide the same array of experiences that I can get with a PSVR.

That said, I knew I was going to have to deal with the downsides of the antequated move controllers, as well as foregoing a true room-scale experience. However, I was pleasantly surprised with the move controller's performance in a game such as beat Saber, so I'm pretty content.

The quest is an absolute achievement for what it is, and is certainly the future of VR. I'm holding out until we can make some significant developments in mobile CPU tech though - even with the most sophisticated tracking tech it's the content that matters most.
 

Deleted member 12790

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I'm holding out until we can make some significant developments in mobile CPU tech though - even with the most sophisticated tracking tech it's the content that matters most.

I think foveated rendering will be a boon to self contained units like this, as it dramatically decreases rendering complexity. Some form of eye tracking can make existing mobile tech go way farther. That's far down the road, though, because only the highest end tethered PCVR Headsets have eye tracking of any form yet.