Screaming "it's shit" at people is not expressing your opinion
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Rian Johnson vs. JJ Abrams
- Thread starter Deleted member 31923
- Start date
You can keep saying he is shit, but it still will not make much sense.
I dont think he is shit. I rather think he is a talented director. See my opinion on Looper and especially Knives Out (literally among the best movies I saw last year). I just don't like TLJ and think it is shit and people want to have that argument despite it having been done over and over again for the past 2 years. But I guess if you do not like literally everything he has done you think he is shit.
Both guys did a bad job, I prefer JJ movies a bit more just because they offer a better spectacle but, man, the plots of Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker were a total mess.
I want to believe any of them could have done a better job if they would have been in charge of the whole trilogy but, as it is, it feels like they were trying to destroy each other's plot points.
I want to believe any of them could have done a better job if they would have been in charge of the whole trilogy but, as it is, it feels like they were trying to destroy each other's plot points.
The prequels weren't fun when they came out. We have evidence from critics/fans at the time. Its only with kids growing up with them are they now seen as fun because of A.) Nostalgia and B.) all those Clone Wars cartoons did a ton of work to build up the world/characters that the movies didn't. Not only is TLJ well liked by people/critics today but the kids growing up are going to like the ST because that's how nostalgia works.
If I think a movie is shit is me saying it is shit not expressing my opinion?
Funnily enough I hate the podracing in TPM, but I like many other aspects of the movie. Of course Duel of Fates, but I'm also one of a very small circle of people who really enjoys all the politics in the Prequels. That alone makes for really fun scenes in all three movies. I also like the characters way more. Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Grevious, Dooku, Palpatine, Yoda are really fun to watch. And the German voice work is actually an improvement over the stiff original acting, that helps to sell certain lines and make the dialogue in general more bearable.
Of course JarJar is still there, but at least they didn't cram every movie full with adorable little creatures to sell plushies.
Nice of you to tell me what's fun and what's not.
I had fun with the prequels back then and to this day. End of story.
Didn't you literally just say he made one good movie earlier?
And if you wan't to discuss things, "shit" isn't a very good word to use in general. Not liking something can lead to discussion, and you might agree or disagree with what that discussion leads to, but starting with shit never really leads to anything productive.
Rian is a better filmmaker because he is passionate and JJ is only in the business due to his heritage and as part of the corporate machine. He's a fan, writes like a fan and is good at what he does but never challenges himself on his ambition.
However the elephant in the room here is Star Wars. The normal rules don't apply here, as both directors have done slightly different than they usually do, in a sense based on just how their movies in Star Wars were.
Rian underdevelivered. I'm not a fan of his movie Looper. It's too edgy and twisty as a concept for me, but that's the kind of experimental films you sometimes make. It's like Christopher Nolan and his pursuit of bendy ideas rather than just thinking about which emotional drive is the best story to tell and therefore best film concept to make. So I'm not a fan of Rian but he seems like he has a style and a skillset that works for him. Well, regardless of his own biography that skillset didn't pay off for Star Wars. The Last Jedi is like Mass Effect 3. It simultaneously contains the best AND worst moments of the brand all by itself. As much as it gets away with daring and sometimes experimental ideas, it took some things too far and without thinking it through and just leaves you unsure or confused. It has a great theme about what it means to become a Jedi and how we all have a potential to resonate with the Force. It delivers its message as Rey learns she has no important background and as a child picks up a lightsaber, and then it has Luke who's force-projecting planets away, a provocatively un-Star-Wars set with Snoke dressed up like he's part of that music video, and is shortly killed because that was kinda bad. It had space mommy that they waste way too much time on, they unceremoneously kill Phasma and they send Finn on a journey to a prequel-like casino and naive romance about horses. The movie was a mess tonally. It contains scenes that are interesting for Star Wars but it also contains scenes that feel like they're designed to shock a Star Wars with little other reason than to see the rise it would get out of it. It seems reactionary to the business behind Star Wars and the lameness of JJ's premise. It's a destructive movie that bangs on a drum with mighty force, makes you cover your ears.
And JJ is just boring. He's not bad, just boring, but his movies hit a perfectly accessible middle road of entertainment and inoffensive fanservice and fanfiction. It's Star Wars alright, but the only thing that you can complain about is that it takes absolutely 0 risks and then it has the flaws of a JJ direction, which is that every scene must be desperate, closeups of emotional faces must be had, cameras have to shake and you can't have a scene in which the protagonist isn't running away from something with a camera panning out to show the impressive scale of its set-piece.
I think Rian's movie was kinda pathetic, I'm just gonna be straight up with that. It's critiqued by nerds as lore-breaking, franchise-ruining, leftist-ridden, whatever. It's lauded by supporters as a "subversive" and masterpiece story. I felt neither, to me it's just an attempt to shock fans, to challenge JJ's poor creativity, Star Wars's noteriety as a toy-brand (by killing Phasma), and as a subversive film to the lore and history of Star Wars it's a mixed bag. There's some scenes that were genuinely going somewhere, but then it was chopped in half by the "truth" behind Luke's story about Ben and has a rather self-serving framework for the whole "first order" backstory by the end. It kills off the many things it's supposed to drive home. It's pathetic to me because it ends up prematurely chopping off lingering threads in the middle of the act 2 it's supposed to be without replacing it with something constructive. It's so easy to look at JJ's foundation and say "I don't like it, I'll tear it in half, now what do you think?" and many fans were thinking the same thing. Kill that boring-ass OG-repetition already... but don't just kill it, correct it. TLJ doesn't correct it, it just kills it.
So regardless of what I think of Rian and JJ, I have to look at what they specifically did with Star Wars and say, they could've done a better job, and that's on them both, but in some ways especially Rian because JJ's framework wasn't lacking in function, direction or motivation. It was just middle of the road barebones entertainment.
However the elephant in the room here is Star Wars. The normal rules don't apply here, as both directors have done slightly different than they usually do, in a sense based on just how their movies in Star Wars were.
Rian underdevelivered. I'm not a fan of his movie Looper. It's too edgy and twisty as a concept for me, but that's the kind of experimental films you sometimes make. It's like Christopher Nolan and his pursuit of bendy ideas rather than just thinking about which emotional drive is the best story to tell and therefore best film concept to make. So I'm not a fan of Rian but he seems like he has a style and a skillset that works for him. Well, regardless of his own biography that skillset didn't pay off for Star Wars. The Last Jedi is like Mass Effect 3. It simultaneously contains the best AND worst moments of the brand all by itself. As much as it gets away with daring and sometimes experimental ideas, it took some things too far and without thinking it through and just leaves you unsure or confused. It has a great theme about what it means to become a Jedi and how we all have a potential to resonate with the Force. It delivers its message as Rey learns she has no important background and as a child picks up a lightsaber, and then it has Luke who's force-projecting planets away, a provocatively un-Star-Wars set with Snoke dressed up like he's part of that music video, and is shortly killed because that was kinda bad. It had space mommy that they waste way too much time on, they unceremoneously kill Phasma and they send Finn on a journey to a prequel-like casino and naive romance about horses. The movie was a mess tonally. It contains scenes that are interesting for Star Wars but it also contains scenes that feel like they're designed to shock a Star Wars with little other reason than to see the rise it would get out of it. It seems reactionary to the business behind Star Wars and the lameness of JJ's premise. It's a destructive movie that bangs on a drum with mighty force, makes you cover your ears.
And JJ is just boring. He's not bad, just boring, but his movies hit a perfectly accessible middle road of entertainment and inoffensive fanservice and fanfiction. It's Star Wars alright, but the only thing that you can complain about is that it takes absolutely 0 risks and then it has the flaws of a JJ direction, which is that every scene must be desperate, closeups of emotional faces must be had, cameras have to shake and you can't have a scene in which the protagonist isn't running away from something with a camera panning out to show the impressive scale of its set-piece.
I think Rian's movie was kinda pathetic, I'm just gonna be straight up with that. It's critiqued by nerds as lore-breaking, franchise-ruining, leftist-ridden, whatever. It's lauded by supporters as a "subversive" and masterpiece story. I felt neither, to me it's just an attempt to shock fans, to challenge JJ's poor creativity, Star Wars's noteriety as a toy-brand (by killing Phasma), and as a subversive film to the lore and history of Star Wars it's a mixed bag. There's some scenes that were genuinely going somewhere, but then it was chopped in half by the "truth" behind Luke's story about Ben and has a rather self-serving framework for the whole "first order" backstory by the end. It kills off the many things it's supposed to drive home. It's pathetic to me because it ends up prematurely chopping off lingering threads in the middle of the act 2 it's supposed to be without replacing it with something constructive. It's so easy to look at JJ's foundation and say "I don't like it, I'll tear it in half, now what do you think?" and many fans were thinking the same thing. Kill that boring-ass OG-repetition already... but don't just kill it, correct it. TLJ doesn't correct it, it just kills it.
So regardless of what I think of Rian and JJ, I have to look at what they specifically did with Star Wars and say, they could've done a better job, and that's on them both, but in some ways especially Rian because JJ's framework wasn't lacking in function, direction or motivation. It was just middle of the road barebones entertainment.
Wait what, the prequels were less interested in selling action figures? Is that what you are saying?
Ok. I don't even know where to go from here. But you at least managed to not say shit in a post.
Did I say the OP was written in a biased way?
This is transparently a fan debate over Star Wars films disguised as debating the merits of directors and their filmography, even beyond Star Wars films, even though we all know the reason these two are being compared.
Something something rotten tomatoes user score, my YT feed something
Every fucking Star Wars thread is that, isn't it? A proxy war of weird shit, where a bunch of people just CAN'T FUCKING LET GO of their hatred of a 2 year old movie.
Something something I thought this was America something something in my opinion blah blah blah blah blah *bangs head against keyboard*
No, of course not. I just wanted to express my hatred for the Porgs. I think most action figurines of the Prequels were at least based on somewhat interesting characters and not just "cute monster #123", but that's probably just subjective in the end.
Fair enough.
Different strokes for different folks and all that.
Guess the dub makes a big difference, because even as a kid the dialogue and delivery made me cringe.
So, Brick, The Brothers Bloom, Looper and The Last Jedi.. none of these are at least good movies
I really want to like JJ's work because his love for the romanticized Spielberg/Lucas era is ever present. There's just something unfulfilling about his films as a total package.
Rian is an incredible visual storyteller and maybe a little too cute with his writing sometimes. I feel sometimes he has trouble wrapping things up, but his work stays with me and grows on me over time.
Rian is an incredible visual storyteller and maybe a little too cute with his writing sometimes. I feel sometimes he has trouble wrapping things up, but his work stays with me and grows on me over time.
Lol. The irony of this post is pretty great.
Those movies came out 20 years ago so I'm assuming you were a child or young adult which proves my point.
If you were late 20's or 30's when those movies came out then more power to you I guess.
Yeah, at least in my experience the dub makes a huge difference! The voice actors expressed more emotions than most of the actors in the movie. Of course they aren't able to make all dialogue sound good, but it's an noticeable improvement in my opinion.
We don't and you won't see me starting any. But trying to make that an issue of sides, will probably not go the way you think it will.
My mistake. What I was saying is that...
Rian Johnson is a shit director who has only ever shitted out shit movies that shit all over my shit childhood. He shit out a shit Star Wars sequel that shit all over its shit predecessor. I could have shit out a better script for that shit movie than Rian shit Johnson in my sleep (which is when I frequently shit).
I imagine this is how you read all of my previous posts.
Cause that is how they read
*side eye*
Are you suggesting he's in the business because he's Jewish?
At least we agree on something.
Aside from Rian Johnson being a much better writer and director that JJ Abrams
Apparently I don't get the irony, but that's okay.
A movie doesn't have to be good to be fun, you know? I can see many flaws in the Prequels and can still like them. It's crazy, I know.
Uh no. I didn't know that. Is he? I just heard his father or someone was known in the business so he's just sort of piggybacking his career on that, and now he's established. He made it, and he makes movies in whiffs of fancy. Tadaa, I made LOST, goodbye and good luck showrunners! Ha I made a Star Trek Movie but I'm not gonna make a sequel, oh wait. Ha I made a Star Wars, but I'm not gonna make a sequel. Oh wait. I made a Cloverfield feature and it's really good until the end and it's just stupid and yeah this was an experiment.
He's just one of the least comitted director/writers that isn't totally bad at it.
Okay...I saw threads about how JJ actually loved TLJ and wishes he directed it and plenty of spin from that side over cast quotes being in support of TLJ as I had from people hanging on to quotes with a negative spin on TLJ all throughout the press tour.
I'm just saying this was never a serious debate amongst Star Wars fans, even when each director had a film that people had strong preference for one over the other. Suddenly it is a thing now, I wonder why?
J.J Abrams is a talented dude who made two of my least favorite movies of the decade: Star Trek Into Darkness and The Rise of Skywalker
Rian Johnson is a talented dude who made two of my favorite movies of the decade: The Last Jedi and Knives Out
not even close, tbh
also, while I understand how it can be useful to judge them as directors and writers separately, the dichotomy doesn't 100% hold up, because their qualities and sensibilities as directors and writers have poured into each other every single time, for good reason
I get it, honestly, even as someone who thinks TFA happened to play pretty well to J.J.'s strengths, was a great ride, and is a better crafted movie than any of the prequels
AotC was Star Wars as a particularly cheesy and surprisingly dark K-drama, and I appreciate it so goddamn much for that
in many ways, it's the more interesting movie
Rian Johnson is a talented dude who made two of my favorite movies of the decade: The Last Jedi and Knives Out
not even close, tbh
also, while I understand how it can be useful to judge them as directors and writers separately, the dichotomy doesn't 100% hold up, because their qualities and sensibilities as directors and writers have poured into each other every single time, for good reason
I get it, honestly, even as someone who thinks TFA happened to play pretty well to J.J.'s strengths, was a great ride, and is a better crafted movie than any of the prequels
AotC was Star Wars as a particularly cheesy and surprisingly dark K-drama, and I appreciate it so goddamn much for that
in many ways, it's the more interesting movie
The disrespect Star Wars fans throw on this amazing Storyteller is just fucking shameful. Rian Johnson not only did right by Star Wars with The Last Jedi. He elevated it. He tried to drag The Franchise to cinematic glory and reform its perception among Cinema as something with more credibility than a 2hr+ Toy Commercial. But Fans don't want change. They want the same thing over and over again in different flavours.
Outrageous.
Outrageous.