Rian Johnson Is Thankful For Negative The Last Jedi Comments

[Aaron]

Saw it mentioned earlier about the film's message of sacrifice. I honestly don't think it's terribly muddled, because the two scenes people often bring up as a contrast (Holdo's death and Finn's attempted suicide run) are different scenarios. Holdo's death was necessary, it was the only thing that could have worked in that moment. Finn was throwing his life away for the sake of dying a hero's death - it was a dumb plan and it wouldn't have worked.

 

[dodo]

Maybe that is the point. That the movie, despite being very objectively clear that Poe is wrong, still ends up with so many people rather wanting to believe the angry hotshot dude.

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I don't want to believe the angry hotshot dude because he's an angry hotshot dude. I come away from the film siding with Poe because the film doesn't really delve into the conflict between him and Holdo enough (in my opinion) and we're left with a movie where the person questioning authority is made out to be in the wrong. I just think that's fundamentally an awkward position for Star Wars to take, especially in the context of military leaders.

Like, consider the series this is a part of. Star Wars movies always feature leaders who are corrupt or foolish who get their way and are either eventually hoist by their own petard (the Jedi et al, the Emperor, Tarkin, all of the Separatists, the more cowardly members of the rebellion in Rogue One) or use their positions of authority to manipulate people (Palpatine many times over, Lando before his change of heart, etc). It is difficult for me, I think to just accept Holdo's "trust me, my plan is very good" routine as something that's good to just let go unchecked. After all, even with the good guys in Star Wars, how many times has "trust me this is gonna work" nearly screwed things up for everyone?

Granted, I realize the last point is probably exactly what the Holdo plot is trying to subvert, but it just doesn't work for me. Blindly trusting military leaders in Star Wars is about as appealing to me as it is in real life.

Eerily reminding us of, say, every real world interaction where hotshot dude talks over women and all the other dudes cheer for him, rather than, you know, the people actually in the right.

That's why Poe being wrong and the movie actually acknowledging it for a change resonated with so many women. It feels true. As opposed to all the other movies where, of course, the angry hotshot dude is ALWAYS, ALWAYS right, ALWAYS knows better than especially women, priming generations of men to idolize hotshot dudes and ignore concerns of women entirely.

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I can totally see why it resonated with some people, I just personally think the film drops the ball with these themes. I want to love Holdo. Laura Dern is a treasure! I just feel like the movie really bumbles around with some mixed metaphors.

 

[Deleted member 11039]

Saw it mentioned earlier about the film's message of sacrifice. I honestly don't think it's terribly muddled, because the two scenes people often bring up as a contrast (Holdo's death and Finn's attempted suicide run) are different scenarios. Holdo's death was necessary, it was the only thing that could have worked in that moment. Finn was throwing his life away for the sake of dying a hero's death - it was a dumb plan and it wouldn't have worked.

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Everyone was on board with the plan. Finn gave them the pep talk about their only hope was to take out the canon and hold the door so Leias message would bring help and everyone, Leia, Rose and all, smile and nod along in agreement.

While you're right that it inevitably wasn't going to work the difference between the two is that Finn was doing his out of hate for the FO. "No! We can't let them win." At that moment it wasn't about saving what you love it was about destroying what you hate. Thus Rose's line.

 

[Surfinn]

Who did this?

Are you referring to me here?

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Nope, it wasn't you from what I can see.

Nobody's opinion is more important than anybody others and certainly not this one. The thread is not about the quality of the film and your post serves no purpose except to irritate people with the opposite opinion. This is the exact same thing as the troll that was banned on the first page.

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Whoops

 

[Deleted member 60410]

Okay? I mean what do people expect him to say, "it really ruined me, I should probably just give up". RJ isn't stupid, he's not gonna react with aggression or resignation.

It's a reasonable response...which is what makes threads like this so weird. Why should he be praised for this? For reacting like a normal person would? Is the bar so low these days, or has celebrity worship blinded everyone?

 

[Laserdisk]

This man is a treasure and this is such a healthy way to tackle the toxicity that he faced after the movie's release. Especially this bit about clarifying that it's not about growing tough skin or "manning up."

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Yep, he learnt to deal with the sad losers on the internet.
It's a shame he had to, but he will be better due to this as Knives Out has shown.

 

[Lotto]

the people that hated TLJ didn't like what happened to Luke this movie, that's as much as I figured from all this tbh. I was a huge fan and was why I loved it so much.

 

[Wolfe]

The best thing he could EVER do for Star Wars is to NEVER touch the franchise again. After TLJ, i'd rather someone deliver a decent movie than a turd of a movie that large.

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Lol get over yourself.

 

[Deleted member 29280]

So where's the part where Johnson says he learned from the constructive criticism he has gotten for his film? We cannot pretend that all the negativity is just trolling.

Honestly I don't see how anyone could either love or hate this movie this much. Its a decent but flawed movie. Even if you loved it its hard for me to believe someone could honestly think that its even the second best SW movie. Im equally baffled that people are so extreme in their bashing of it and Johnson as a director.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I thought the asian love interest was really random and unwarrtend.

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Rose.

Her name is Rose.

 

[Deleted member 2652]

Rose.

Her name is Rose.

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"that black guy tho he's my boy!"

 

[the lizard]

I hate how politicized the subject has become, as someone who has what I think to be very reasonable issues with the narrative of the movie and its place in the larger trilogy.

 

[HellofaMouse]

the inherent toxicity of social media is one thing, but being thankful for being desensitized to criticism (constructive or not) is... strange.

 

[Dark1x]

This is advice I must learn to follow.

 

[P-MAC]

You're insisting on a double standard that isn't there lol.

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I didn't insist on anything lmao made a mild observation that you don't agree with, cool

 

[P-MAC]

Nope, it wasn't you from what I can see.


Whoops

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I hope that's not referring to me. On no level have I equated people liking the movie to being abusive to actors and cast. One is an opinion that's basically irrelevant and the other is disgusting entitlement. I only referred to the troll talking shit on the first page who said some stupid shit but nothing abusive so unless they are known to be one of those abusive people there's no connection there. If they are I apologise and wasn't aware.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

After all, even with the good guys in Star Wars, how many times has "trust me this is gonna work" nearly screwed things up for everyone?

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It would have made a lot more sense to me if there had been a line somewhere about being worried about a spy giving the plan away to the first order, since it necessarily required operational secrecy. Without that concern, it just feels like the dumbest decision in the galaxy because they have people jumping ship from bad morale and have to police the escape pods. They could have fixed the morale by saying "don't worry people, even though we seem to be on the ropes, there's a plan in the works". They didn't even need to tell people what it was exactly.

I absolutely agree that "don't question the chain of command" is a bizarro world thing to put in a star wars film, doubly so when we have characters on screen whose arc is explicitly about bucking authority to do the right thing instead of what you're told (Finn).

 

[Agent 47]

I thought this would be about him taking criticism and learning from his mistakes, instead it's about him learning to just ignore the negative feedback.

 

[VaanXSnake]

As long as he's not writting any other SW movie, It'll be fine, dude is a decent director but a garbage writer, I'm glad he doesn't care that much about fandom though.

 

[Lifejumper]

the inherent toxicity of social media is one thing, but being thankful for being desensitized to criticism (constructive or not) is... strange.

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Well... it worked for him thus far. Most of his movies are critically and financial successful.

He does not owe us any explanation.

 

[Zombine]

Good guy, great director, badass movie. I don't cry over man children either.

 

[Doober]

It would have made a lot more sense to me if there had been a line somewhere about being worried about a spy giving the plan away to the first order, since it necessarily required operational secrecy. Without that concern, it just feels like the dumbest decision in the galaxy because they have people jumping ship from bad morale and have to police the escape pods. They could have fixed the morale by saying "don't worry people, even though we seem to be on the ropes, there's a plan in the works". They didn't even need to tell people what it was exactly.

I absolutely agree that "don't question the chain of command" is a bizarro world thing to put in a star wars film, doubly so when we have characters on screen whose arc is explicitly about bucking authority to do the right thing instead of what you're told (Finn).

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It's just a very weird scenario because the script makes Poe - who is already established as a more idealistic, less assholish Han Solo - very sympathetic while Holdo comes across as a bit of a knob. The audience isn't given any more clues than Poe is that she's got a plan or even has the best interests of her crew in mind. And then the lesson was she was right to be a knob? Listen to knobby people, even in the face of death?

It's weird.

 

[Bad Advice]

Disappointed that that is his take from the criticism. Sure people went overboard with their hatred but I wished he would acknowledge at least the genuine criticism. The movie was pretty bad and controversial, I was hoping he would realize that.

 

[The Bookerman]

It's funny because TLJ is God tier.

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It's funny on how much you're trying to trigger people who hate this film.

 

[Surfinn]

I hope that's not referring to me. On no level have I equated people liking the movie to being abusive to actors and cast. One is an opinion that's basically irrelevant and the other is disgusting entitlement. I only referred to the troll talking shit on the first page who said some stupid shit but nothing abusive so unless they are known to be one of those abusive people there's no connection there. If they are I apologise and wasn't aware.

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The poster on the front page who got banned represents exactly the type of behavior that leads to that abuse. People who dedicate their time and effort engaging in extreme hyperbole in hating the film, which often leads to harassment. That toxicity cannot be compared with someone saying "TLJ is god tier". At all.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Disappointed that that is his take from the criticism. Sure people went overboard with their hatred but I wished he would acknowledge at least the genuine criticism. The movie was pretty bad and controversial, I was hoping he would realize that.

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When you receive 100+ award nominations and a shit ton of wins for your film, see it reach 1.3 billion just in theaters aka one of the most successful films of all time, followed up by the second top blu ray sales the year they released, followed by continuing involvement in the franchise and everyone singing your praises, why in the ever living fuck would you come to the conclusion that you made a bad film?

Like your post is an example of people going overboard with their hatred, you genuinely will not be satisfied until this dude essentially has an epiphany and announces that he made a bad film when by every verifiable metric he can use to measure that indicates that he didn't. It's a less severe type of toxicity but it's still in essence, toxicity.

It's just a very weird scenario because the script makes Poe - who is already established as a more idealistic, less assholish Han Solo - very sympathetic while Holdo comes across as a bit of a knob. The audience isn't given any more clues than Poe is that she's got a plan or even has the best interests of her crew in mind. And then the lesson was she was right to be a knob? Listen to knobby people, even in the face of death?

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This is just playing with the expectations that we usually have, a large portion of the audience missed the part where Poe self reflected and realized he was wrong or rather, would not do that themselves. For example, how is Holdo a knob? She does nothing but calmly explain to Poe that he needs to stick to his post, and never feeds into him as he gets more and more unhinged and starts throwing chairs around. In a typical film scene, "Get this man off my bridge" would be said with utmost authority and likely some hollering to show that the commander is themselves unhinged and that it's the principle of having their authority challenged that is bothering them. In TLJ, Holdo says it calmly and firmly while the situation is reversed, Poe is throwing chairs and calling her a coward, and she doesn't feed into the temper tantrum, she deescalates. It's a plot line where everything is recontextualized once the audience has the full picture.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So where's the part where Johnson says he learned from the constructive criticism he has gotten for his film? We cannot pretend that all the negativity is just trolling.

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Why would he even need to necessarily? It's not like the negative feedback was in the majority.

 

[Deleted member 7148]

I'm not the biggest fan of TLJ, but Rian Johnson certainly doesn't deserve the hate he gets. The dude made a good Star Wars movie and his direction was great; it's just the writing that I didn't care much for. Still, the more I watch the film the more I like it.

Glad he's able to push the hate aside and ignore it. This reminds me that I need to go see Knives Out.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm really disappointed this wasn't him personally apologizing for making a well reviewed, solidly performing film, and promising to never do that again. I think as a Star Wars fan I'm entitled to that you know.

 

[Waffles]

I think that every director should be required to create a 40-60 minute YouTube video where they acknowledge each and every criticism of their film in order to make me happy. Sure, in interviews he gets questions specifically about toxicity and politely addressed those questions, while also still engaging with people who both like and dislike his films on social media, but I deserve more.

 

[Surfinn]

I'm really disappointed this wasn't him personally apologizing for making a well reviewed, solidly performing film, and promising to never do that again. I think as a Star Wars fan I'm entitled to that you know.

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You sound like an ST stan.

 

[ak1287]

So where's the part where Johnson says he learned from the constructive criticism he has gotten for his film? We cannot pretend that all the negativity is just trolling.

Honestly I don't see how anyone could either love or hate this movie this much. Its a decent but flawed movie. Even if you loved it its hard for me to believe someone could honestly think that its even the second best SW movie. Im equally baffled that people are so extreme in their bashing of it and Johnson as a director.

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You're not owed it, so you won't get it.

 

[Einchy]

So where's the part where Johnson says he learned from the constructive criticism he has gotten for his film? We cannot pretend that all the negativity is just trolling.

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*looks at his widely successful body of work*

 

[Slayven]

Great view on things

 

[Leonard Spiddles]

Johnson is super on the level. The attempt to paint him as some sort of SJW boogeyman was really something to behold as a long time fan.

It's gonna be interesting to see the fan reaction to TROS.

 

[Deleted member 29280]

Why would he even need to necessarily? It's not like the negative feedback was in the majority.

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Haha. So if most people simply like the movie he shouldn't bother to acknowledge real criticisms?

Because showing that you actually learned from the criticisms about your writing means a lot more than... just saying you learned to just ignore negative comments on the internet.

I suppose as an artist myself i have a different viewpoint. Honest criticism to my work is a lot more valuable than a pat on the back because it shows me where i could improve. Obviously you make the distinctions between constructive and nonconstructive criticisms.

The cynical part in me partly believes he is choosing to fan the flames because the controversy just makes him more relevant.

 

[ScoobsJoestar]

Great view on things. Wasn't a fan of the movie, but Christ it's just a movie and people took it as an affront to their religion. No one deserves that amount of hatred over a movie. Hope the guy doesn't lose much sleep over this and doesn't get too much hate towards his way as time goes on.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Haha. So if most people simply like the movie he shouldn't bother to acknowledge real criticisms?

Because showing that you actually learned from the criticisms about your writing means a lot more than... just saying you learned to just ignore negative comments on the internet.

I suppose as an artist myself i have a different viewpoint. Honest criticism to my work is a lot more valuable than a pat on the back because it shows me where i could improve.

The cynical part in me partly believes he is choosing to fan the flames because the controversy just makes him more relevant.

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I have a Bachelor's Degree in Performing Arts and a Motion Picture Arts Certificate.

Dude just made Knives Out he doesn't need controversy to be relevant

 

[Mcfrank]

Haha. So if most people simply like the movie he shouldn't bother to acknowledge real criticisms?

Because showing that you actually learned from the criticisms about your writing means a lot more than... just saying you learned to just ignore negative comments on the internet.

I suppose as an artist myself i have a different viewpoint. Honest criticism to my work is a lot more valuable than a pat on the back because it shows me where i could improve. Obviously you make the distinctions between constructive and nonconstructive criticisms.

The cynical part in me partly believes he is choosing to fan the flames because the controversy just makes him more relevant.

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Rian Johnson doesn't owe you anything.

 

[Donepalace]

Isn't the same thing basically happening now to the two D&Ds from game of thrones

 

[VectorPrime]

Isn't the same thing basically happening now to the two D&Ds from game of thrones

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A lot of people liked TLJ even though it was divisive. I don't know anyone who liked GoT Season 8.

 

[Einchy]

Haha. So if most people simply like the movie he shouldn't bother to acknowledge real criticisms?

Because showing that you actually learned from the criticisms about your writing means a lot more than... just saying you learned to just ignore negative comments on the internet.

I suppose as an artist myself i have a different viewpoint. Honest criticism to my work is a lot more valuable than a pat on the back because it shows me where i could improve. Obviously you make the distinctions between constructive and nonconstructive criticisms.

The cynical part in me partly believes he is choosing to fan the flames because the controversy just makes him more relevant.

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This is so weird.

 

[Schlorgan]

"Christopher Nolan needs to prostrate himself on the ground in front of me and personally apologize for Dark Knight Rises being a convoluted, poorly paced mess."

^ this is what some of y'all sound like and it's ridiculous.

 

[Waffles]

"Christopher Nolan needs to prostrate himself on the ground in front of me and personally apologize for Dark Knight Rises being a convoluted, poorly paced mess."

^ this is what some of y'all sound like and it's ridiculous.

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I deserve content where a director goes through each and every criticism of their films and specifically details how they plan to improve themselves going forward.

Seriously though, every interview, Q&A, podcast, or what have you goes like this:

Q: Hey Rian, people were mean to you a lot on social media? You good?

A: 95% of my interactions with people are lovely and constructive, whether people like the film or not. A small subset of people are dickheads.

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And that's still not enough apparently.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Isn't the same thing basically happening now to the two D&Ds from game of thrones

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Yea, but people react differently when it's a piece of media they enjoy/dislike.

Just how it is

Edit: Like you'll find the exact same "they don't owe you anything, nerds!" comments in the GoT threads, but those people are quickly shouted down. It's just that in that case, the roles were a bit flipped and the backlash was (seemingly) the majority for GoT.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Isn't the same thing basically happening now to the two D&Ds from game of thrones

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People are weird about that too. People here were angry that they didn't attend a con that most likely would've turned incredibly toxic for them.

 

[Einchy]

People are weird about that too. People here were angry that they didn't attend a con that most likely would've turned incredibly toxic for them.

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Then they did attend a con later on, answered some questions in total normal ways and people twisted everything they said.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Then they did attend a con later on, answered some questions in total normal ways and people twisted everything they said.

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Like I said in another thread, it's just a bunch of people who want their chance to be outofseasonaprilfooljoke guy.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

The cynical part in me partly believes he is choosing to fan the flames because the controversy just makes him more relevant.

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He just had a huge hit come out this weekend that got glowing critical praise. You are speaking nonsense.

 

[Schlorgan]

He just had a huge hit come out this weekend that got glowing critical praise. You are speaking nonsense.

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They put his name all over that thing too.