Does she have a sister? I dont remember. Was that the bomber in the beginning ?
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Rian Johnson Is Thankful For Negative The Last Jedi Comments
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
Does she have a sister? I dont remember. Was that the bomber in the beginning ?
They'd better improve their humanoid CGI if they want China on board this time.
Yeah, she would have been a much better fit for the story. Her speaking role was far more significant.
Did some youtuber make a vid with this talking point recently lmao
Imagine comparing the director of Ozymandias to Zack fucking Snyder
The joke is that people here back in 2017 legitimately thought she was CGI.
The other joke is people here thought that the actress who played her sister in the bomber would be a better fit to play Rose.
Really hope he gets his trilogy, him not being beholden to a " a concluding saga" ,nostalgia pandering ,and cleaning up mystery boxes is something I want to see
One might even suggest they should have switched the actors. Just saying.
What if I told you that at one point on this site someone said exactly what I just said except they were being 100% serious
I agree. I've criticized TLJ without being belittled too. But I don't see how that's related to what I'm talking about.
Crossing Eden and Katten were discussing RJ's hobby comment and how they don't understand people always being so persistently negative and critical when there's better things to do with your life. And yet Crossing Eden seems to have made it a hobby to spar with people he deems stupid. He doesn't' seem to have the same take away that RJ has. He doesn't seem bored with it. On the contrary he seems fueled by it. Its odd. What's he get out of that?
This is what I was originally responding to. I'm not sure why you seem to be equating extreme hate for RJ with people calling others out for not understanding basic plot points from a movie. It's really strange.
I was never a part of the seething TLJ hate train, but I also don't think the film is very good, either. Where TFA has the problem of playing it too safe and being a rehash of ANH with no real worldbuilding or new and interesting content, TLJ overcorrects and makes a middling film trying to be subversive and different, without actually saying much of note.
That said, I can't believe all these people who personally go after Rian Johnson, who try to say he's untalented, as if to forget that he directed two of the best episodes in Breaking Bad's entire run. Ozymandias is the best TV episode of anything I've ever seen.
That said, I can't believe all these people who personally go after Rian Johnson, who try to say he's untalented, as if to forget that he directed two of the best episodes in Breaking Bad's entire run. Ozymandias is the best TV episode of anything I've ever seen.
It's a highly divisive film. Myself personally, I understand people thinking it's a cool movie, but I could never fathom "God tier".
I loved Last Jedi personally. Such a breath of fresh air
Which episodes of Breaking Bad he direct? I.e. what happened in em?
I really did not like TLJ. It flat out failed at what it burns some much capital attempting to do (while also being the only chance to basically make good on the setup of TFA that has its own issues) but Rian Johnson has an incredibly healthy attitude here. I would say he's untalented AT ALL, but he's not the most flexible of talent and his style were I'll suited for the project of following up TLJ. That said, Knives Out is a treat. A bunch of rambling to say that I agree.
We've had narrative directors on AAA properties spell these things out. If you're not willing to see it then you never will. Your premise is self defeating and impossible for you to lose by its very nature because people that want it to be better or different at all, by definition, want it to be something else.
He directed "Fly", "Fifty-One", and most notably, "Ozymandias".
Humorously enough, "Fly" is hands-down the most divisive episode in all of Breaking Bad, just like The Last Jedi is the most divisive Star Wars film in recent memory.
As for "Ozymandias"... it's the ultimate, most explosive, cathartic payoff that the entire show has been building towards.
Walt's entire world comes crashing down around him, and it's his own fault. All of his relationships are brutally severed.
Hank's death. Walt telling Jesse that he watched Jane die, before sending him off to be tortured. Flynn finally finding out the truth about his father, and turning against him accordingly. Walt stealing Holly away, before realizing that he has to return her.
Hank's death. Walt telling Jesse that he watched Jane die, before sending him off to be tortured. Flynn finally finding out the truth about his father, and turning against him accordingly. Walt stealing Holly away, before realizing that he has to return her.
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must be 🙄
man of steel was notoriously discussed ad nauseam at the old place for years, thread after thread and the discourse was so similar - "another MoS thread" was a common frowning phrase much like TLJ threads are now, that's why I mentioned it.
I can't speak for the other poster but Zack Snyder infamously used his Batman v Superman film as a deconstruction of popular super hero mythos and iconography, with the intent on adding shades of grey and nuance to a typically black and white/good vs evil formula. If you cannot see why anyone would see the similarities in that mindset with the approach of Rian with The Last Jedi you're either being deliberately obtuse or you've overlooked some key details. The constant dismissal of this comparison as some sort of Youtube alt right gotcha is so tiresome but not at all surprising that the same posters would choose to be daft then to engage faithfully. Ozymandias is stellar but you act like Rian wrote it. let's be real my problems with TLJ aren't his framing or compositional skills (much like that's rarely the case with Zack Snyder... huh 🤔)
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Can you link me that? Or if its in the thread let me know I've only seen last few pages. I'm geniunely interested because all Last Jedi crit I've read has been dog shit
The entire debate has been had to death, so I'll just bring up a point that I see echoed the least: the three leads, Rey, Finn, and Poe are not given enough screentime together to build a likable dynamic similar to the one that Luke, Leia, and Han had.
Rey is off training with Luke, and talking to Kylo through the Force.
Finn is off doing his own thing with Rose, a new character.
Poe's screentime largely consists of him being painted as an insubordinate to Holdo, another new character.
I don't care so much about these characters individually, let alone as a group. In TFA, one of the most reasonably liked aspects, if I'm not mistaken, were the character interactions. I know Finn is seen as too much of a comedic relief character by some, but I liked him and Poe, I liked him and Rey. Standing in stark contrast to that, we have (in TLJ) Rey and Poe, two of the three main characters, not even meeting until the end of the film. I view that as a big mistake. You can't wait until the third film to "build up the trio" when, in the original trilogy, we had an emotional investment in the camaraderie and well-being of our three leads from the very first movie. Luke, Leia, and Han had a compelling dynamic together. The same cannot be said of Rey, Finn, and Poe.
I don't even know what they're doing with Poe in particular, to be honest. I was hyped before TFA because I knew Oscar Isaac was solid, and I was looking forward to seeing him on-screen, but Poe is barely in TFA, and in TLJ, they tried their hardest to paint him as an unlikable buffoon who should've just fallen in line.
Ever since Disney bought Star Wars, I have really come to learn how expectations are the death of joy. I often think that many people hated TLJ so much because of ridiculous hype and unreasonable expectations. To some degree, I am guilty of this too. I had my own expectations and fantasies as to how I thought Luke's life should play out after the OT. As with most things in life, having expectations for how things should go usually leads to disappointment.
As TROS approaches, I am going to try my best to have as little expectations as possible (as I usually try to do with any form of entertainment). I believe that doing so will lead to a more enjoyable experience. At the end of the day, I think my only goal when I watch a new Star Wars movie should be to have a fun time. Nothing will ever live up to the magical experience of watching a new Star Wars movie as I once did as a wide-eyed child anyways.
I very much admire Rian Johnson for his grace and humility. I imagine that if I had been in his shoes after TLJ's release, the extreme hatred and criticism I'd receive from complete strangers online would absolutely destroy me to the point of depression and self-loathing. That man deserves so much respect for the way in which he continues to handle these unfortunate circumstances.
As TROS approaches, I am going to try my best to have as little expectations as possible (as I usually try to do with any form of entertainment). I believe that doing so will lead to a more enjoyable experience. At the end of the day, I think my only goal when I watch a new Star Wars movie should be to have a fun time. Nothing will ever live up to the magical experience of watching a new Star Wars movie as I once did as a wide-eyed child anyways.
I very much admire Rian Johnson for his grace and humility. I imagine that if I had been in his shoes after TLJ's release, the extreme hatred and criticism I'd receive from complete strangers online would absolutely destroy me to the point of depression and self-loathing. That man deserves so much respect for the way in which he continues to handle these unfortunate circumstances.
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That's a far more gracious response than the toxic entitled fanboys deserve. This guy made one of the top 3 best Star Wars movies -- far better written than any of Lucas's efforts, with coherent themes and character development that build upon and improve the original material -- and the reward he gets is a deluge of irrational screeching on every social media platform.
Rian Johnson is a class act. The Star Wars fandom doesn't deserve him.
Rian Johnson is a class act. The Star Wars fandom doesn't deserve him.
imagine attaching your identity to a product which is inherently out of your direct control so when people (each with their own unique view about what said product means and is) change it in ways you don't agree with it tugs at your identity and maybe makes you feel not so hot. seems frustrating. seems tiring.
As much as I disliked TLJ I think it's fucked up people antagonized him on Twitter. And besides, he's clearly a good writer and director, I can dislike one of his films but still recognize that. Good on him for learning to brush it off.
Overall structure is actually a complaint I get with The Last Jedi. It's one of my favourite movies ever, but if you want to tell me that, say, you think it's too long, for example, or you aren't a fan of the pacing, I can respect that. A long-ass movie with like four and a half acts isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. I get it.
But, of course, most of the time the 'deep structural problems' people claim turn out to be misreadings, wilful ignorance, or just the same bullet point list of plothole gotchas people have been endlessly repeating since 2017, and I regret ever engaging. "CANTO BIGHT WAS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY", etc etc. OK, chief. Sorry I asked :P
Not letting bad arguments be normalized is not the other coin of toxicity.
this is just one of my criticisms, but, the whole canto bight-find the super hacker story line was an unnecessary venture added only to serve a predetermined 'failure' plot point that was imposed upon the movie by producers who wanted an esb analogue. the main characters gain nor lose anything, are barely emotionally involved and when they return empty handed the core narrative has not progressed in anyway other than some time wasted. going by the analogue to esb, in that movie a similar subplot has everyone but luke captured, they are betrayed by an old 'friend', han is tortured for nothing, flash frozen, and given to boba fett, c3po is blasted to bits, and leia is to be held captive on bespin. you get the sense that the empire can either bully or pay anybody off and there are no safe harbors while being pursued by the best bounty hunters the galaxy has to offer, they try to flee but end up right in the palm of vader's hand. plus the emotional peak of han and leia's relationship happens with that famous exchange right as han is lowered to his doom. i mean esb is so stacked with these types of moments that it feels unfair to compare the two.
I think you have one of the more interesting critiques here about this aspect of TLJ, but I think using comparison of this sort to judge a story is often a slippery slope. I think it is better to try and let a film stand on its own and judge it based on its own merits rather than through the lens of other stories. Besides, if fans continue to compare new Star Wars movies to ESB (one of the best movies ever made imho) they will be forever disappointed. Nonetheless, I think the argument that the 'failure' theme was weak because it lacked emotional resonance during the Finn and Rose subplot is one of the better critiques of the film I have seen so far. Unfortunately, the argument is riddled with the slipperiness of subjectivity. Although some of the 'failure' plot points failed to land for you, this aspect of the movie definitely landed for me thanks to how much I like these characters. Yeah, this film is indeed divisive.
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It really isnt. I personally rather watch a prequel rather than TLJ.
That says so much more about your taste than the quality of TLJ. The prequels are objectively poor films. It doesn't take a keen critical mind to see why. Just the eyes and ears to recognize wooden performances, awkward dialogue, and sloppy storytelling.
Good. I could use more of his attitude to ignore trolls. Internet discourse for SW is awful these days.
Also the last Jedi is an incredible movie. 2nd only to ESB. Because a vocal minority of internet manchildren have hate-boners for it doesn't make it any less amazing. Criticism is one thing, frothing at the mouth is another.
Also the last Jedi is an incredible movie. 2nd only to ESB. Because a vocal minority of internet manchildren have hate-boners for it doesn't make it any less amazing. Criticism is one thing, frothing at the mouth is another.
The Last Jedi has a lot of conflicting themes that never really resolve, and the ones that do resolve are kind of a head-scratcher. I love parts of TLJ, but there are large swathes of it that feel like the movie could have used a more aggressive script editor.
I think the big one for me is what, exactly, the film is trying to say about noble sacrifice. The film starts with the bombing run succeeding, at great cost, due to the actions of a brave co-pilot. Leia, and later Holdo, chastise Poe for this. We're supposed to believe that Poe is too frivolous with his orders, and careless with his troops. Only, this already doesn't really make sense--Poe is far from a lazy armchair general, he's a respected wing commander out there risking his neck with the rest of his crew. Leia is the one sitting comfortably in a capital ship, not him.
Then the Holdo plot seems to want us to disagree with Poe for... questioning authority out of concern for everyone's safety. He's painted as the foolish one for demanding his superior tell him what, exactly, her plan is. This might have worked if the film had opened with, I dunno, the bomber copilot pleading with Poe not to make her climb downstairs to kick the bomb out, but that's not what happened. There's no dramatic irony here: we're supposed to like Holdo because she's Cool and played by Laura Dern (granted: I love Laura Dern and I DO think she's fun in this role) and that Poe needs to be put in his place.
Then Finn and Rose go gallivanting off on their own risky mission. They take a lot of personal risks to do what they think is right on Canto Bight. So far, so good. Then Holdo learns that actually, sometimes a noble sacrifice is cool to do, and does one in maybe the coolest part of the film. Then during the final battle, Finn attempts to sacrifice himself to save all of his friends, but is thwarted by Rose, who... nearly sacrifices herself to make a point to Finn about how you shouldn't make big sacrifices. Then Luke Skywalker saves the day for everyone, with a big noble sacrifice.
What is this movie trying to say about sacrifice? Is it good? Is it bad? Is questioning authority good or bad? I think a lot of people see these conflicting ideas as nuance; to me, it just feels like nothing completely coalesces.
That being said I think all the stuff with Luke and Rey and Kylo is fantastic. I think disillusioned Luke is a way better vehicle for exploring the themes of dogma and authority that the rebel plot clumsily tries to run in parallel. Also, the red room fight whips ass.
I just don't think it's a very well structured movie. My dislike (that's a strong word honestly, I would still rank it above every prequel and Solo and maybe even RotJ depending on my mood) has a lot less to do with What I Want Out Of Star Wars and more just feeling like the movie needed a bit more time in the oven.
I genuinely can't understand where the "Johnson can't take criticism" bs started when the dude has consistently been like this. It's like those toxic people made up a persona for the dude so they could be more indignant and feel more justified in bashing not just the films but the man himself.
It's just another hateful fantasy cooked up by recreational complainers.
I'm no huge star wars fan, but I honestly feel like TLJ was a more interesting movie than TFA. I don't think either was particularly good, but the TFA felt like a worse version of a movie I had already seen before.
TLJ had some really silly contrivances in place of actual character growth, but outside of that it was pretty cool. I thought Luke, Leia, Rey, and Kylo Ren were all handled in interesting ways.
It feels like Poe, Rose and Finn have no actual planned arcs in this series. That's really unfortunate. The entire Casino sub plot and its aftermath was really stupid. I can't help but think that if this portion of the movie was better, It would have been much better recieved overall.
Anyway, I'm glad Johnson was able to block out the toxicity masked as criticism. That sort of shit can be very damaging to the mentally of a creative.
TLJ had some really silly contrivances in place of actual character growth, but outside of that it was pretty cool. I thought Luke, Leia, Rey, and Kylo Ren were all handled in interesting ways.
It feels like Poe, Rose and Finn have no actual planned arcs in this series. That's really unfortunate. The entire Casino sub plot and its aftermath was really stupid. I can't help but think that if this portion of the movie was better, It would have been much better recieved overall.
Anyway, I'm glad Johnson was able to block out the toxicity masked as criticism. That sort of shit can be very damaging to the mentally of a creative.
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I think all this TLJ bickering helps the movie more, because everyone involved will rewatch it and come to appreciate what it was trying to accomplish. Like what happened with me.
So keep it up Rian, use the trolls to elevate your works.
So keep it up Rian, use the trolls to elevate your works.
When I see these "the prequels are better than TLJ" posts I genuinely do question how these people can handwave away the awkward dialogue, stilted performances, awful effects and convoluted storytelling as a mere matter of taste. It's baffling.
Hej is totally right. These people are just looking for a reaction from you. Don't give it to them and most of them will move on at some point to another target.
This is a healthy and mature perspective. I'm glad he was able to overcome the abuse and vitriol.
There's a reason why last Jedi was as controversial as it was. IMO, a lot of the story choices really subverted fan expectations, but they were not acceptable or satisfying to a lot of fans.
For example, Luke is grumpy and also not a super saiyan.
Take that, Star Wars nerds.