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Ayato_Kanzaki

Member
Nov 22, 2017
1,480
This thread reminds me that I have bought the first two volumes last year, and they're still on my "for later" pile...

I'll probably kick myself 50 pages in for not starting on them sooner.
 

Anatole

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,427
Yeah The Lost Metal was held for timeline reasons, which is the thing that basically confirms the
Thaidakar-Kelsier
thing for me.
I believe Wax and Wayne 4 only got bumped because Brandon wanted to write Skyward for Random House after pulling Apocalypse Guard, since he was on the record back in 2015-2017 saying that he planned to write WW4 between Stormlight 3 and 4. He called not writing it "my big failure in 2018" in that year's State of Sanderson post.

So I currently think that Lost Metal will primarily lay groundwork for the Kelsier story to come in Era 3, but if Kelsier does play his hand in a major way in Lost Metal or Stormlight 5, then I would certainly be excited.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
I believe Wax and Wayne 4 only got bumped because Brandon wanted to write Skyward for Random House after pulling Apocalypse Guard, since he was on the record back in 2015-2017 saying that he planned to write WW4 between Stormlight 3 and 4. He called not writing it "my big failure in 2018" in that year's State of Sanderson post.

This is what I remember as well. The Apoc Guard not working out and then Skyward pretty much jacked his schedule for the year that year.
 

Cruxist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
This is what I remember as well. The Apoc Guard not working out and then Skyward pretty much jacked his schedule for the year that year.

I wonder what happened with the Apocalyose Guard. It seemed like a pretty solid concept and I was looking forward to visiting the Reckoner universe again.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
I wonder what happened with the Apocalyose Guard. It seemed like a pretty solid concept and I was looking forward to visiting the Reckoner universe again.

From what I remember.. it was that even though he was confident in the structure and concept... when he really looked at the details, Brandon felt it wasn't good enough. So it's shelved for now.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,491
I find myself thinking about the implications of Navani's storyline because they're really interesting.

There's this series I adore, The Baroque Cycle, by Neal Stephenson. Historical fiction with a dash of fantasy set in the mid-late 1600s/early 1700s about, amongst other things, the Enlightenment and the rise of modern economics and nation-states. Also, the romance between a former concubine to the Ottoman emperor and a syphilitic vagabond with half a dick. But this definitely reminded more of the former stuff than the latter. Navani achieving that state of total focus on scholarship even while the reality of the situation kept beating at the back of her mind was excellent, and I think there's more territory to explore there in future novels.

And the actual metaphysics of it all are fascinating. The "sound on a plate" thing has been going on since book 1, with the design of the Dawn Cities following vibration patterns. Is this something particular to Rosharan forms of Investiture? Or is it true of everything? If all forms of power take that same vibration - the light I think is actually a bit of a red herring, the color stuff seems to descend from the sound rather than the other way around - that means that she has, in theory, already figured out a way to move Stormlight from Roshar. Just have to set it to a vibration that doesn't correspond to anything, or even silence, if that's possible. Sever all Connections and the "pull" towards the Shard that the Connection originated from disappears. Now, does this allow it to still be used... that's unclear. Lacking a Connection to a source of Light on Roshar seems to make it impossible to use it. Human Radiants can't use Voidlight, but Venli can fuel her powers with it. But does that mean that a Connection-free source of Investiture wouldn't be usable by anybody, or does the Connection carry with it a kind of whitelist where it checks for permissions, meaning that no-Connection power would be usable by anybody with powers? Vasher still being alive suggests that neither is quite right, since if he couldn't take in Stormlight he really ought to be dead, but Vasher is weird for multiple reasons right now.

And what does all this mean for people who have them? There's loads of different mechanisms for having a Connection to a particular form of Investiture - Allomantic power is passed down genetically, Surgebinders form Nahel Bonds (though maybe not always, if the first Spren bonded with Humans after their arrival on Roshar...), everybody gets one Breath, and on Sel everybody can use the local magic system with the appropriate education. It differs dramatically from world to world, but if the mechanism that Connect Investiture to a Shard are the same as the mechanism that Connects a person to a power, it should be possible to give anybody access to any ability. This is backed up by Hoid going around doing just that, though he's a unique case for a number of reasons.

It's such a statement on setting design that so many pages devoted to exploring the fictional physics of a fictional system are this compelling. Really hope we get more stuff like this in future books.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,622
You are wrong. Thankfully since that'd be a really upsetting twist imo.

Yes, I'm glad.

At the same time, though, I'm kinda not? Lirin was really shortsighted and cruel this whole book AND we instead lost a character who actually like...got over himself. I suppose Teft dying at the end of his character arc is appropriate, narratively. Fuck Moash, obviously.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,116
I'm a little in to part 4 right now, and it's safe to say I am absolutely dreading the flashbacks at this point. They're just mind numbingly boring, and honestly feel kind of forced? Like Sanderson was already of the mind that there would be Singer flashbacks in this book, but then didn't have much to actually facilitate the necessity.
 

Asklepios

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
United Kingdom
Ugh yes those flashbacks are truly terrible! Were the previous three books this bloated? I just feel like I am ploughing through pages of fluff and then a cliffhanger at the end of chapter that didn't really require so many pages to build up to.

The writing has always been a bit more tell than show but this problem seems to have been magnified in RoW due to the bloat. I am invested in all the characters so I am just going to keep going and then eventually do book 5 but then stop.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,116
Ugh yes those flashbacks are truly terrible! Were the previous three books this bloated? I just feel like I am ploughing through pages of fluff and then a cliffhanger at the end of chapter that didn't really require so many pages to build up to.

The writing has always been a bit more tell than show but this problem seems to have been magnified in RoW due to the bloat. I am invested in all the characters so I am just going to keep going and then eventually do book 5 but then stop.

Only one I really had issues with was Oathbringer. I think I might just not like Shadesmar at this point. Still holding out hope the rest of RoW can change that opinion.
 

crimzonflame

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,754
Just finished it! What a ride! Have a few questions:

1. Where was Vasher the whole time the tower was occupied?

2. Mraize was the one who captured Lift, right?

3. What was the point of getting honorspren on your side when the whole war in going to be decided in the battle of champions?

LIked the book. Had some pacing issues, not enough Lift, and felt Adolin's part was not vital because of my third question.
 
Dec 15, 2017
760
Just finished it! What a ride! Have a few questions:

1. Where was Vasher the whole time the tower was occupied?

2. Mraize was the one who captured Lift, right?

3. What was the point of getting honorspren on your side when the whole war in going to be decided in the battle of champions?

LIked the book. Had some pacing issues, not enough Lift, and felt Adolin's part was not vital because of my third question.
1. Great question! Probably being surly somewhere and thinking that he's not up for action
2. Yes
3. This was far from a guarantee when they were sent on the mission and seemed like just one possibility. Keeping the war going as they were required more bonded radiants
 

Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
Flashbacks in all of these books are terrible. They were worse in Radiance/Oathbringer because it's 100% obvious from the start where it was going and there's nothing else to make it interesting. And it's soooo dragged out because the aim of a lot of fantasy authors these days seems to be to have the thickest book on the shelf so it has to go on and on and on.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
I have to disagree with the opinions I'm seeing about the flashbacks. I feel like the context they provide on the characters and state of Roshar before the "present" only serves as a boon to my experience with the story and the world itself.

However I'm someone that really enjoys character work and worldbuilding. So seeing an active perspective on these characters past is right up my alley.
 

Barrel_Roll

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
963
Just finished the last three hundred pages tonight. Now I can go back through and read this thread without trepidation :)
 

Barrel_Roll

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
963
I have to disagree with the opinions I'm seeing about the flashbacks. I feel like the context they provide on the characters and state of Roshar before the "present" only serves as a boon to my experience with the story and the world itself.

However I'm someone that really enjoys character work and worldbuilding. So seeing an active perspective on these characters past is right up my alley.

I agree. I thought that the flashbacks for Eshonai and especially Venli were well done. Flashbacks are needed if the series is designed to start in medias res like WoK, with the Parshendi and Alethi at war.
 

Barrel_Roll

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
963
Yes, I'm glad.

At the same time, though, I'm kinda not? Lirin was really shortsighted and cruel this whole book AND we instead lost a character who actually like...got over himself. I suppose Teft dying at the end of his character arc is appropriate, narratively. Fuck Moash, obviously.

I am curious to see what will happen when spren are killed by anti-voidlight but a Radiant is left alive. Teft was killed immediately after his spren, and Shallan's first spren became a deadeyes ala the Recreance spren. Between anti-voidlight weapons and those experiments the Herald was running, it seems like the rest of the series is going to get pretty bad for spren
 

Barrel_Roll

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
963
I just finished as well. I think this was my favorite Cosmere book so far, if only because the character moments were better (and more evenly spread among the cast) than they have ever been.
This was the first book in which I felt connected to the singer viewpoints on a more substantial level than just plot. I loved the focus on Navani, and though I wasn't initially sure if I wanted more Urithiru, the bottle episode format just worked for me. I feel emotionally renewed, which is remarkable after a 1200 page book. Brandon is still somehow coming into his powers as a writer, and I am terrified/eager to see what he comes up with next.

And, on Taravangian: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH

Taravangian's face/heel turn in the last sliver of the book was by far the most surprising plot element, I felt. You could have called how Kaladin, Navani, Shallan, and Adolin would end up as soon as the good guys split up on their three missions. Though I hope we get a scene of an incredulous Adolin coming back to Urithuru to discover that now Navani has a spren.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,116
I've thought all the flashbacks in previous books were amazing and paramount to understanding the characters. This one though, just seems kind of forced and not nearly as necessary to either the story or understanding the character.
 

mangopositive

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,431
I love seeing this topic on the front page. I got about 20% into ROW when I saw Dawnshard in my book list. I didn't know about the preorder bonus. Now I'm about halfway done with that. Love Lopen.
 

crimzonflame

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,754
Another question:
Not too familiar with the whole Cosmere universe as I've only read Warbreaker and the first Mistborn, but is the human that gave Venli the gem supposed to be someone familiar?
 

LiquidDom

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,313
I know this is the ROW thread but I just started this series and I just finished Part 2 of TWOK. Incredible book so far, the introduction of the character Dalinar alone steps it up considerably.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,429
After finishing this book I got to thinking about how things would evolve going forward. I'm trying to think of what could happen that would spur 5 more books in SA and the only thing I can think of is Dalinar losing to Taravangian or just have more conflicts with the other shards somehow. We know Autonomy is kind of an asshole, and now Cultivation is doing some dumb shit too so maybe those three along with Taravangian could try and fuck up the rest of the Cosmere? I don't know.
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,282
I'm 1/2 way through the book at this point and I have to say I'm the best change was Sanderson finally giving up on Shallan's dad joke tier witticisms. The jabs she takes at people are much more natural now than what previously felt like a weird marvel cut in for a really bad pun.
 

CerealKi11a

Chicken Chaser
Member
May 3, 2018
1,956
After finishing this book I got to thinking about how things would evolve going forward. I'm trying to think of what could happen that would spur 5 more books in SA and the only thing I can think of is Dalinar losing to Taravangian or just have more conflicts with the other shards somehow. We know Autonomy is kind of an asshole, and now Cultivation is doing some dumb shit too so maybe those three along with Taravangian could try and fuck up the rest of the Cosmere? I don't know.

I am thinking the same as you, but then what are the next 5 books going to be, more Odium fighting? That sounds kind of boring IMO. Honestly after the reveal at the end of ROW, I am wondering if Cultivation is going to be the big bad. I could see Dalinar either losing or somehow ascending to Honor's place. I feel like in order to make the final pages in the Cosmere relatable and/or interesting, viewpoint characters need to start ascending, as I'm sure the "final battle" will be shard-level.

I don't like the concept of just screeching to a new villain in the 4th book, so I feel like the villain must've been there all along... otherwise what was the point of the previous books? Taravangian's stated purpose was saving his people from Odium. Now that he's Odium what's he going to do? It sounds like he is only honoring the contract Rayse made because he has to. I don't really understand the conflict at the shard level any longer. But the concept of Cultivation pulling the strings all along? That I can understand.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,429
I am thinking the same as you, but then what are the next 5 books going to be, more Odium fighting? That sounds kind of boring IMO. Honestly after the reveal at the end of ROW, I am wondering if Cultivation is going to be the big bad. I could see Dalinar either losing or somehow ascending to Honor's place. I feel like in order to make the final pages in the Cosmere relatable and/or interesting, viewpoint characters need to start ascending, as I'm sure the "final battle" will be shard-level.

I don't like the concept of just screeching to a new villain in the 4th book, so I feel like the villain must've been there all along... otherwise what was the point of the previous books? Taravangian's stated purpose was saving his people from Odium. Now that he's Odium what's he going to do? It sounds like he is only honoring the contract Rayse made because he has to. I don't really understand the conflict at the shard level any longer. But the concept of Cultivation pulling the strings all along? That I can understand.
Yeah I agree with that, with Taravangian becoming Odium he can do exactly what he wanted, contract with Dalinar aside, in saving everybody in Kharbranth and even Roshar since he doesn't need to destroy anymore, but that's only if he can resist being corrupted by the shard's power. The book said how the shard and the vessel were not completely aligned so I guess that's something they could try to explore with him as well. I think the second half of SA will just delve more into cosmere wide conflicts since we can already see in RoW how much it's connecting to other worlds and like you said just continuing with Odium being the big bad would be kind of boring. I expect there to be some shards who want to keep things as they are and others maybe like Sazed working to establish more peace.
 

Cruxist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
Yeah I agree with that, with Taravangian becoming Odium he can do exactly what he wanted, contract with Dalinar aside, in saving everybody in Kharbranth and even Roshar since he doesn't need to destroy anymore, but that's only if he can resist being corrupted by the shard's power. The book said how the shard and the vessel were not completely aligned so I guess that's something they could try to explore with him as well. I think the second half of SA will just delve more into cosmere wide conflicts since we can already see in RoW how much it's connecting to other worlds and like you said just continuing with Odium being the big bad would be kind of boring. I expect there to be some shards who want to keep things as they are and others maybe like Sazed working to establish more peace.

I think at this point Stormlight has to set up the inter-shard conflict that the entire Cosmere is building towards. Rhythm already showed that Cosmere awareness is growing among the main characters, and Odium specifically wanted the Rosharans to be his vanguard to other shardworlds. I think it would make sense that we get more named worldhoppers in the back five and maybe even visit another planet. We know that the Knights Radiant somehow become worldhoppers thanks to the preview chapter Brandon read during the Rhythm release, and it seems clear that they are in conflict with the Scadrians who will use metallurgy to create space travel. It would be great to visit one of the "lesser" shardworlds and really get everything going.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,433
I'm going to make a bold prediction here and say I think there's a large chance Taravangian Odium's champion loses to Dalinar because Taravangian's doesn't have the same attachment to personally leaving and leading the charge on other worlds that Rayse did. The deal Dalinar gave only prevents Odium from leaving Roshar personally and requires him to give back Herdaz and Alethkar. It technically doesn't even say anything about trying to retake Alethkar and Herdaz after he's given them back (which could very easily be the huge mistake he noticed Dalinar made when he ascended). Taravangian noticed the best plan was one where he can be satisfied regardless of the outcome so I don't think his current plan is dependent on beating Dalinar in the duel itself.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
I'm going to make a bold prediction here and say I think there's a large chance Taravangian Odium's champion loses to Dalinar because Taravangian's doesn't have the same attachment to personally leaving and leading the charge on other worlds that Rayse did. The deal Dalinar gave only prevents Odium from leaving Roshar personally and requires him to give back Herdaz and Alethkar. It technically doesn't even say anything about trying to retake Alethkar and Herdaz after he's given them back (which could very easily be the huge mistake he noticed Dalinar made when he ascended). Taravangian noticed the best plan was one where he can be satisfied regardless of the outcome so I don't think his current plan is dependent on beating Dalinar in the duel itself.

I don't feel confident in speculating whether Dalinar will win or not (mostly because Darkest before the Sunrise trope is still in play) but I disagree that Taravangian isn't motivated to try to move outside of Roshar. Taravangian pretty clearly has a major, major Savior complex. It's what led him to seek "the power to stop what's coming." It's the core justification for saving his people at the cost of others. It's what primarily prevented him from working with anyone else. Only *he* is capable of doing what needs to be done. Only *his* conclusion is can possibly work. And now that he has Odiums (the shard) inherent hunger, that will only make him more monsterous. Rayse actually tried to fight against Odiums (shard) hunger. That's what led to Rayse's Odium having restrictions at all. Taravangian doesn't have the same sense of Honor/Moral. For him, the ends justify the means. Combined with the Savior complex, I'm of the mind that Taravangian Odium will not only be more dangerous on Roshar but he will desire to have complete control over the Cosmere even more because "No other God can save everyone." And that same Savior complex that elevates his sense of self will make him more suceptible to Odiums (shard) corruption. After all, in his mind, he's better than Rayse so how could Odium possibly be influencing him? No, that can't be what's happening. These thoughts and desires are all his own.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,433
I don't feel confident in speculating whether Dalinar will win or not (mostly because Darkest before the Sunrise trope is still in play) but I disagree that Taravangian isn't motivated to try to move outside of Roshar. Taravangian pretty clearly has a major, major Savior complex. It's what led him to seek "the power to stop what's coming." It's the core justification for saving his people at the cost of others. It's what primarily prevented him from working with anyone else. Only *he* is capable of doing what needs to be done. Only *his* conclusion is can possibly work. And now that he has Odiums (the shard) inherent hunger, that will only make him more monsterous. Rayse actually tried to fight against Odiums (shard) hunger. That's what led to Rayse's Odium having restrictions at all. Taravangian doesn't have the same sense of Honor/Moral. For him, the ends justify the means. Combined with the Savior complex, I'm of the mind that Taravangian Odium will not only be more dangerous on Roshar but he will desire to have complete control over the Cosmere even more because "No other God can save everyone." And that same Savior complex that elevates his sense of self will make him more suceptible to Odiums (shard) corruption. After all, in his mind, he's better than Rayse so how could Odium possibly be influencing him? No, that can't be what's happening. These thoughts and desires are all his own.
to be clear he wants to extend his "salvation" beyond Rodger, I just don't think he'd care if it was done by his subordinates and agents so long as the end credit and responsibility ultimately goes to him. I think he'd see his agents success outside Roshar as just An extension of his own
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
I am listening to the new book, one third into it, and I got a couple question/observations (not real spoilers, just questions):
• So the lines about Ruin and Preservation slipped... Is it really going to be a fight between two powers, with all characters just playing their part, just like in the Mistborn? Am I reading into it too much? I like character's agency and dislike pre-determination type of storylines... Mistborn was a let-down with the way it transcended choices/characters into the godhood :(
• I read that this is book 4 out of 10, and with the current schedule of one every 3 years, it will take 18 more years for the story to resolve? Not even like Mistborn which has three trilogies...
• Shalan, or however you would spell it, is the worst character... Fuck her, and fuck her friends at Ghostbloods... A completely pointless cat and mouse game that stalls the entire experience
• I feel like we are at the period in story where unknowns (powers, characters, orders, history etc.) are still widening, and I am getting lost at all the unmade, spren cities, corrupted spren, ghostbloods, diagrams, alliances, singer/listener factions, gods and a lot of the smaller characters. Perhaps the story is a bit too grand and elaborate :(

As I said, about 20h into the book, so please don't spoil anything for me with the answers.
 
Last edited:

Begaria

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,664
Just finished up the book. I'll talk generally here and echo what other people have said: this book has pacing problems, and it absolutely didn't need to be 1200ish pages long. Brandon set the "gun on the mantle" so to speak for a few characters that I saw coming half a book away, and I was slightly disappointed to be right from my guesses. It's still a pretty good book, but not my favorite among them.

Now, some more poignant thoughts which are full book spoilers:

I think Brandon went a little too hard on Venli's history, when we kept jumping back years before the first book and then slowly caught up to where Venli is now. It felt misplaced to do that in the middle of the fourth book, and not when we were originally introduced to Venli. It just kept taking me out of the situation during the occupation of Urithiru. All of those prequel chapters could've been removed from this book, and I would've just been happier - they really should've been place alongside introducing Eshonai and Venli in the earlier books.

I think we all totally called when Kaladin would achieve the fourth ideal, and somewhat how.

Shallan being her own spy was something I immediately realized. If you've ever played Xenogears or watched Mr. Robot, it's a pretty generic line of thinking in identity disorder characters.

Adolin/Maya continue to be a great coupling, even though I immediately called her being the key turning point in the trial as soon as Adolin suggested it. Super obvious. I was curious as to what would be said when she finally woke up.

Dalinar is totally going to lose that contest, isn't he? They're not going to have the "good guys" win in book 5 of 10, because what the hell would books 6 through 10 be about?

I didn't think I was going to like Navani's chapters. Turns out their the best chapters in the entire book. Very lore heavy world building in that with her experiments, how the "light" is actually more like sound...so good!

Cultivation...man, I dunno what you were up to lady, but I think you bet on the wrong horse in Taravangian. That's not going to end well for anyone.
 

Anatole

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,427
One of the big points of speculation that I have seen crop up a few times independently on 17th Shard and on Reddit is that Taravangian will choose a child (possibly Gavinor) as his champion, forcing Dalinar to submit to Odium. The speculation is grounded in these Death Rattles from TWOK:

"I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw."
"A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears."

I think the theory has merit, but I am definitely not convinced that this is the whole story. Even if Dalinar has to stand down, there are too many other players with their own agendas in the game, especially if Kaladin and Szeth are successful in Shinovar.

I am rereading TWOK now, and I have begun wondering if Kaladin's parents are more than they seem. There are some oblique references to Hesina's parents that I am suspicious of, and we have yet to see why Kaladin is referred to as Son of Tanavast.

I think at this point Stormlight has to set up the inter-shard conflict that the entire Cosmere is building towards. Rhythm already showed that Cosmere awareness is growing among the main characters, and Odium specifically wanted the Rosharans to be his vanguard to other shardworlds. I think it would make sense that we get more named worldhoppers in the back five and maybe even visit another planet. We know that the Knights Radiant somehow become worldhoppers thanks to the preview chapter Brandon read during the Rhythm release, and it seems clear that they are in conflict with the Scadrians who will use metallurgy to create space travel. It would be great to visit one of the "lesser" shardworlds and really get everything going.
Wait, which preview chapter are you referring to? Could you point me in that direction?
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Hoid being the Cosmere's greatest hypeman>>>>>>

Nigga couldn't wait to show out for his Queen lol
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,622
Hoid being the Cosmere's greatest hypeman>>>>>>

Nigga couldn't wait to show out for his Queen lol

Jasnah be like:

f0a150cb643ab8e32bb882ac26e7fa08.gif
 

TwntyOneTwlv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,595
Ohio
I am listening to the new book, one third into it, and I got a couple question/observations (not real spoilers, just questions):
• So the lines about Ruin and Preservation slipped... Is it really going to be a fight between two powers, with all characters just playing their part, just like in the Mistborn? Am I reading into it too much? I like character's agency and dislike pre-determination type of storylines... Mistborn was a let-down with the way it transcended choices/characters into the godhood :(
• I read that this is book 4 out of 10, and with the current schedule of one every 3 years, it will take 18 more years for the story to resolve? Not even like Mistborn which has three trilogies...
• Shalan, or however you would spell it, is the worst character... Fuck her, and fuck her friends at Ghostbloods... A completely pointless cat and mouse game that stalls the entire experience
• I feel like we are at the period in story where unknowns (powers, characters, orders, history etc.) are still widening, and I am getting lost at all the unmade, spren cities, corrupted spren, ghostbloods, diagrams, alliances, singer/listener factions, gods and a lot of the smaller characters. Perhaps the story is a bit too grand and elaborate :(

As I said, about 20h into the book, so please don't spoil anything for me with the answers.
I'm also just over 20 hours into the audiobook.

I'm liking it a lot so far. But I haven't read Mistborn, or any other Sanderson books besides Stormlight, so I'm feeling pretty lost with all the apparent Cosmere stuff. I agree with you about Shallan - she's really whiny in this book. The three personalities thing is cool, and I like Veil and Radiant, but Shallan herself kind of sucks so far in RoW. Hopefully she turns it around.

And yeah, it all feels a bit too grand at times. Shadesmar and spren cities, Radiant spren and corrupted spren and Unmade spren and void spren, and fabrials and different gemstones, along with the Fused, Singers, and Listeners, and then there's shardblades and shardplate which are both referred to as "shards", but now there's other "shards" that are apparently pieces of God, two of which are Honor and Odium. It gets to be a bit too much at times.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
to be clear he wants to extend his "salvation" beyond Rodger, I just don't think he'd care if it was done by his subordinates and agents so long as the end credit and responsibility ultimately goes to him. I think he'd see his agents success outside Roshar as just An extension of his own

I don't think his agents would be effective without his direct support/intervention because once they move to another planet in the Cosmere, they're entering the seat of power of other Gods. So far it's extremely rare and apparently difficult for people to cross to other planets and keep the full potency of the investiture from their native world. It seems to me, and it's fairly strongly suggested, that Odium would have to travel as well. Odium traveling to Roshar with Humans would seem to support this as well.




I'm also just over 20 hours into the audiobook.

I'm liking it a lot so far. But I haven't read Mistborn, or any other Sanderson books besides Stormlight, so I'm feeling pretty lost with all the apparent Cosmere stuff. I agree with you about Shallan - she's really whiny in this book. The three personalities thing is cool, and I like Veil and Radiant, but Shallan herself kind of sucks so far in RoW. Hopefully she turns it around.

And yeah, it all feels a bit too grand at times. Shadesmar and spren cities, Radiant spren and corrupted spren and Unmade spren and void spren, and fabrials and different gemstones, along with the Fused, Singers, and Listeners, and then there's shardblades and shardplate which are both referred to as "shards", but now there's other "shards" that are apparently pieces of God, two of which are Honor and Odium. It gets to be a bit too much at times.


Stormlight Archive is Brandon's main big Epic Fantasy series. So the complexity you're seeing pretty much comes with the territory. The other series that take place throughout the Cosmere will likely be less complex/complicated.
 

phaze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,362
My RoW got delayed until unspecified time ;(, they really want to make me get the UK cover.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,430
Finished it today, as it's settling I'm finding the Cosmere stuff less overwhelming and more intriguing. I think it could have used a bit more levity, there's a couple of moments that I found really funny specifically:

Wit's interaction with his spren while telling kaladin the story

And I wish there had been a bit more of that in between the drama. But another great read overall, excited for whats to come for sure.
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,576
Hm, looking at some of these things I'm trying to speculate a bit more.
So we know that supposedly the 4th Mistborn era is the big wrap-up to the Cosmere. I'm trying to think who the major players end up being.

  • Odium - Clearly wants to be THE shard in control of everything, regardless of the holder.
  • Harmony - He's talking in this book about finding a "sword" go out and represent his interests (Wax?).
  • Cultivation - Still not sure on her motivations, but I could see her being evil and "cultivating" a plan to rule the universe. Either that or she just screwed up hardcore with giving Odium to Taravangian. She's clearly manipulating things though, like with Dalinar, Lift, and the aforementioned Taravangian.
  • Kelsier - If we assume that he's in charge of the Ghostbloods (which it seems pretty obvious that it's him), he's trying to make some big plays and figure out how to do stuff like bringing Stormlight from Roshar to the rest of the Cosmere.
  • The 17th Shard - They're an organization that are trying to get the shards to not interfere with each other.
  • Hoid - It seems like he's on a similar path to the 17th Shard but doesn't work with them for some reason. He was there for the Shattering so he clearly is the only mortal with the whole big picture in mind. He knows why the Shattering happened in the first place and has some insight into the shards and their motivations.

    Sorta feels like the buildup is leaning towards a whole Roshar vs Scadrial thing, but who knows.
 

Cruxist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
Hm, looking at some of these things I'm trying to speculate a bit more.
So we know that supposedly the 4th Mistborn era is the big wrap-up to the Cosmere. I'm trying to think who the major players end up being.

  • Odium - Clearly wants to be THE shard in control of everything, regardless of the holder.
  • Harmony - He's talking in this book about finding a "sword" go out and represent his interests (Wax?).
  • Cultivation - Still not sure on her motivations, but I could see her being evil and "cultivating" a plan to rule the universe. Either that or she just screwed up hardcore with giving Odium to Taravangian. She's clearly manipulating things though, like with Dalinar, Lift, and the aforementioned Taravangian.
  • Kelsier - If we assume that he's in charge of the Ghostbloods (which it seems pretty obvious that it's him), he's trying to make some big plays and figure out how to do stuff like bringing Stormlight from Roshar to the rest of the Cosmere.
  • The 17th Shard - They're an organization that are trying to get the shards to not interfere with each other.
  • Hoid - It seems like he's on a similar path to the 17th Shard but doesn't work with them for some reason. He was there for the Shattering so he clearly is the only mortal with the whole big picture in mind. He knows why the Shattering happened in the first place and has some insight into the shards and their motivations.

    Sorta feels like the buildup is leaning towards a whole Roshar vs Scadrial thing, but who knows.

Those all seem spot on, though I'm curious how T-Odium works now. I feel like we're missing something with the Shard's intent, especially now that we know Rayse was fighting it.

I do think Kelsier has a bigger goal in mind than money. In many ways, he is the same as Taravangian. He needs to be the one that solves the problem. He also has an intense hatred of members of the ruling class, and I would assume that would stretch to Shards as well. If he used Hemalurgy to return to his own body, I feel like he's actually going to end up as the big bad, or as the harbinger for the "final threat" to the Cosmere. Of all the powers we've seen so far, Hemalurgy is the most openly evil, but also one of the easiest for mortals to take advantage of. It's also clear that Kelsier is acting against what Harmony is working towards.

I am hopeful that Sanderson can balance all of these factions and not really have one outright "villain" as we march towards a Cosmere war. But also, when push comes to shove, I'm team Scadrial.