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Although I've already read the preview chapters, it feels great to read them again as I missed so much.
How in the world did I just breeze through the conversation between Gavilar and Nale the first time through?
Isaac (artist/director) mentioned that he's only at the stage of getting the artists on board, atm.
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I'm reading it now, and I gotta say, you and other artists who worked on the book really outdid yourselves. There is a lot of cool artwork here.
I'm around chapter 12. I'm glad I avoided the preview chapters because I think I would have gone crazy waiting.
I ordered from bookshop and I slightly regret it. I know I don't need release date delivery, but I want it now!
I have release date delivery and as of noon it still hasn't even shipped.
Grabbed the digital version because I couldn't wait.
I swear if I don't see a Rock interlude very soon! How do you tease Kal looking off in to the distance worrying about Rock(RIGHT before the interludes) and not immediately have a Rock interlude?! Rude!
Disclaimer: I say this without having read the interludes and going just off the names displayed right before the interludes. Seeing Sja-Anat has one has me hyped though.
Disclaimer: I say this without having read the interludes and going just off the names displayed right before the interludes. Seeing Sja-Anat has one has me hyped though.
Finished Part 2, because I had read all the preview chapters previously. Shit pops off fast in this book, damn.
The way that this book handles mental health is extraordinary. Wow.
The chapter with Kaladin and Teft finding the one armed man almost broke me. Sanderson approaches depression in a way that is SO real
Just remembered this came out some days ago lol
Will see if i can get some time to read it and DawnShard.
This should be fun
Will see if i can get some time to read it and DawnShard.
This should be fun
These epigraphs! So many Shards are being named that I don't think we had ever heard of before. Endowment is Nalthis, but Invention, Whimsy, Valor, Mercy? I see that Ch. 25 is named after Mercy, so I guess I will see something of them soon. It seems like the context is Sazed writing to Hoid again, so this correspondence must be an ongoing thing now.
Without going into major spoilers and you can spoiler tag your reply, how involved is Lift in this one?
Not too much so far. She was basically told that she couldn't go as a diplomatic envoy to Shadesmar, and a few comments on her awkward adolescence
Finished Part 2!
Wrote up this earlier, but didn't post: the 'sword' that Sazed is talking about in Ch. 29... is that Wax? It has to be foreshadowing something in Wax and Wayne 4 anyway, right?
Okay, so the end of part two. Brandon really got me. With Kaladin thinking about strength before weakness and life before death, I was sure he was going to swear the fourth ideal and swoop in. I suppose the ending of part two was meant to be a little bit frustrating (in a good way); just when we thought Kaladin was getting better and figuring things out, shit happened, and it proved that he isn't ready yet.
This first chunk of the book has been just excellent, and I am sooo excited to keep trucking onward.
Okay, so the end of part two. Brandon really got me. With Kaladin thinking about strength before weakness and life before death, I was sure he was going to swear the fourth ideal and swoop in. I suppose the ending of part two was meant to be a little bit frustrating (in a good way); just when we thought Kaladin was getting better and figuring things out, shit happened, and it proved that he isn't ready yet.
This first chunk of the book has been just excellent, and I am sooo excited to keep trucking onward.
Finished the book last night. Two main (spoiler-free) takeaways: (1) Man, this was not a well paced book. The first 75% just draaaaaags, I was finding myself skimming entire chapters. In no way did it need to be 1200 pages. (2) I don't see how these books are accessible to people who don't know everything about the Cosmere already. This book moves well past the stage where they are just easter eggs.
I continue to dislike Shallan chapters.
Sanderson has been a little too heavy-handed with the mental illness stuff thus far. As someone that struggles with mental illness, the fact that it's the complete and total focal point of Kaladin and Shallan chapters so far is frustration, especially since they're not really doing anything with it. Kal is finding meaning in helping people, but it feels a little unearned so far. Adolin said some nice words and suddenly Kal realizes how he can help other people with similar problems?
Shallan just sucks. Her chapters are poorly paced and always boil down to: "I have a split personality disorder and refuse to face my fear."
I am, however, really liking Adolin chapters. He's grown a lot and overall just become a lot more interesting--especially with the Maya stuff and the fact that he's more or less refusing to become a Radiant unless it involves her.
Shallan just sucks. Her chapters are poorly paced and always boil down to: "I have a split personality disorder and refuse to face my fear."
I am, however, really liking Adolin chapters. He's grown a lot and overall just become a lot more interesting--especially with the Maya stuff and the fact that he's more or less refusing to become a Radiant unless it involves her.
The second part of this is so incredibly true. The Cosmere is in full force in this book and it's difficult to keep straight all the time. I'm probably going to have to go back and re-read the rest of his Cosmere-related work. I can't recommend this series to my friends in good faith without telling them to read Mistborn (including Wax and Wayne), Elantris, Warbreaker and the Stormlight novellas. I very much enjoy a connected universe--and my own writing/worldbuilding features it--but the fact that it's all growing into highly relevant plot points is so confusing.
Sounds rough. The outro to OB already left me plenty confused and in need of wider Cosmere knowledge. I lvl'd up a bit since but still got II Mistborn unread.
Idk, I don't mind the pace of these books. There is a lot of build up to some events and cool worldbuilding. I'm nearing the end of part III, I like it so far. But yes, Cosmere connections just become stronger and stronger. You can still read it by itself, but reading at least Warbeaker is strongly recommended before WoR or Oathbringer.
And I kinda like Shallan stuff.
And I kinda like Shallan stuff.
Mistborn has become important as well though.
But yeah Warbreaker has basically become required reading at this point.
If you've read Mistborn it's really obvious who the letter in Pt 2 is from
But yeah Warbreaker has basically become required reading at this point.
I think really weighing down the Shallan stuff is that it feels so *repetitive*. Like Sanderson is copying and pasting half the damn internal dialogue from chapter to chapter. We get it, she shrinks away from facing her memories, cool.
Don't get the Shallan hate. Still absolutely love her.
If anything I think this book has shown me that I love Adolin, but don't really care for his POV chapters. His attitude comes across better from other pov's.
As for pacing, I think the pacing on all the books is pretty much the same. I think the difference is in the earlier books you're new and fresh to all these mysteries and you just like being in the world. Now that it's the fourth book I think people are wanting to see stuff happen more and come together more, but the pace isn't really all that different. You're still just dropped in this world and here to experience it.
If anything I think this book has shown me that I love Adolin, but don't really care for his POV chapters. His attitude comes across better from other pov's.
As for pacing, I think the pacing on all the books is pretty much the same. I think the difference is in the earlier books you're new and fresh to all these mysteries and you just like being in the world. Now that it's the fourth book I think people are wanting to see stuff happen more and come together more, but the pace isn't really all that different. You're still just dropped in this world and here to experience it.
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Just finished.
Ho ho ho HOLY SHIT
Chiming in on ongoing convos:
Shallan is great y'all just haters
And the pacing was a little wonky here. Certain events feel like they fire off earlier than expected, and the result is a strange lack of urgency throughout a lot of the book. I only really felt it in the flashback chapters, tbh - they covered a lot of ground we already mostly knew.
At some point there's going to have to be a "sit down and exposit about the Cosmere at great length" chapter and it's going to be dreadful but it's kinda necessary at this point. Gotta get the relevant perspectives in the same room and hammer things out. There were two little ones here, but they're couched in deliberate mystery in one case and metaphor in the other, so it's not exactly helpful. I'd honestly have figured that the characters would get a better education for themselves after the events of Oathbringer, but I guess they were happy to let sleeping dogs lie, mostly.
My brain, it is swirling. So much shit changed at the very very end of this one. Goddamn.
Edit: Okay a few thoughts in no particular order
Ho ho ho HOLY SHIT
Chiming in on ongoing convos:
Shallan is great y'all just haters
And the pacing was a little wonky here. Certain events feel like they fire off earlier than expected, and the result is a strange lack of urgency throughout a lot of the book. I only really felt it in the flashback chapters, tbh - they covered a lot of ground we already mostly knew.
At some point there's going to have to be a "sit down and exposit about the Cosmere at great length" chapter and it's going to be dreadful but it's kinda necessary at this point. Gotta get the relevant perspectives in the same room and hammer things out. There were two little ones here, but they're couched in deliberate mystery in one case and metaphor in the other, so it's not exactly helpful. I'd honestly have figured that the characters would get a better education for themselves after the events of Oathbringer, but I guess they were happy to let sleeping dogs lie, mostly.
My brain, it is swirling. So much shit changed at the very very end of this one. Goddamn.
Edit: Okay a few thoughts in no particular order
Taravangian you miserable old FUCK, what the fuck is WRONG WITH YOU, why would you POSSIBLY think this was a good idea? What part of how things unfolded thus far would make you believe yourself even remotely qualified to do this? Also, seriously, what the fuck is Nightblood that it would even make such a thing possible? What the fuck did Vasher do? That is NOT just a fancy sentient sword that sucks in investiture. Shards are supposed to be nigh-infinitely mighty and Taravangian just sticks Odium with it, kills Rayse, and then becomes Odium himself? What kind of bullshit system did Endowment put together that creating such a thing is even possible?
I'm happy for Venli and all, reunited with the other Listeners, but a) I wanna know what's up with Leshwi now (honestly, Venli was more interesting last book - I find myself way more interested in other Listener perspectives than hers) and b) I wanna know if Eshonai is kicking around somewhere Kelsier style after that last chapter, and c) for god's sake get your shit together femalen, there's still a war on. Get back in the game. Yes yes freedom for your people woooo great you've got an entire class of Radiants now and that shit's gonna be necessary in the next 10 days. So I guess what I'm saying is, I would've appreciated more time wrapping up what's going on with the other Singers after the tower was liberated.
Speaking of 10 days, what the fuck, 10 days?!? Ten DAYS?!? Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhh I literally cannot believe this. How the fuck is the next book going to be structured? Rhythms was weird enough - I'd figured that taking the Tower would be the climax to part 3, and then Kaladin Does Diehard would be part 4, but instead it's, like, most of the book. But how do you do a Stormlight sized book that takes place over 10 days without making the entire thing Avalanche-tier dense? I don't think you can. So the duel has to happen early. But what the fuck does that imply for the rest of the novel? I don't know. I don't even know if Taravangian is planning to rig the duel so he wins or loses. He could very easily just throw the thing and weasel his way out somehow.
It's worth noting - this book didn't really have a traditional Avalanche. Like, you could count Maya at the Trial as the start and then the rest as... the rest, but it's weirdly anticlimactic aside from the traditional Kaladin Swears an Oath moment. Everything wraps up from there pretty rapidly. There's big moments but it doesn't feel like a rush of them. This is kinda exacerbated by pulling us from the tower being reactivated to Dalinar in Emul - that could've been epilogue stuff. Gimme more from the Tower being freed.
Especially more Leshwi, who I really think is kinda sweet on Kaladin and I'm interested to see where that goes.
I thought that the stuff in Shadesmar dragged a little bit, but I like Shallan and I like Adolin and I liked all the other Radiants they brought on, so that was mostly alright. Honestly, the trial stuff felt the most traditional Sanderson Avalanche to me of all of it. Again, just wish we had more wrapup.
Navani's material was really genuinely dope, but that could just be my inner Neal Stephenson fan leaking out. All the study of light stuff feels like it could have come from a fantasy Baroque Cycle.
I'm happy for Venli and all, reunited with the other Listeners, but a) I wanna know what's up with Leshwi now (honestly, Venli was more interesting last book - I find myself way more interested in other Listener perspectives than hers) and b) I wanna know if Eshonai is kicking around somewhere Kelsier style after that last chapter, and c) for god's sake get your shit together femalen, there's still a war on. Get back in the game. Yes yes freedom for your people woooo great you've got an entire class of Radiants now and that shit's gonna be necessary in the next 10 days. So I guess what I'm saying is, I would've appreciated more time wrapping up what's going on with the other Singers after the tower was liberated.
Speaking of 10 days, what the fuck, 10 days?!? Ten DAYS?!? Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhh I literally cannot believe this. How the fuck is the next book going to be structured? Rhythms was weird enough - I'd figured that taking the Tower would be the climax to part 3, and then Kaladin Does Diehard would be part 4, but instead it's, like, most of the book. But how do you do a Stormlight sized book that takes place over 10 days without making the entire thing Avalanche-tier dense? I don't think you can. So the duel has to happen early. But what the fuck does that imply for the rest of the novel? I don't know. I don't even know if Taravangian is planning to rig the duel so he wins or loses. He could very easily just throw the thing and weasel his way out somehow.
It's worth noting - this book didn't really have a traditional Avalanche. Like, you could count Maya at the Trial as the start and then the rest as... the rest, but it's weirdly anticlimactic aside from the traditional Kaladin Swears an Oath moment. Everything wraps up from there pretty rapidly. There's big moments but it doesn't feel like a rush of them. This is kinda exacerbated by pulling us from the tower being reactivated to Dalinar in Emul - that could've been epilogue stuff. Gimme more from the Tower being freed.
Especially more Leshwi, who I really think is kinda sweet on Kaladin and I'm interested to see where that goes.
I thought that the stuff in Shadesmar dragged a little bit, but I like Shallan and I like Adolin and I liked all the other Radiants they brought on, so that was mostly alright. Honestly, the trial stuff felt the most traditional Sanderson Avalanche to me of all of it. Again, just wish we had more wrapup.
Navani's material was really genuinely dope, but that could just be my inner Neal Stephenson fan leaking out. All the study of light stuff feels like it could have come from a fantasy Baroque Cycle.
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After finishing the book, Navani is now one of my favourite PoVs. I was definitely not expecting to enjoy her chapters as much as I did.
Basically this, yeah. Shallan is a kicked puppy and reading her chapters thus far have basically just been the same thing over and over again. I usually like her but this time her internal dialogue is insufferable.
Navani was a delight, yeah. Very different than the other perspectives in themes and focus, I felt.
Question for others who've finished:
Did we ever get a firm answer on how Mraize knew about the corrupted gloryspren lie? Pattern admitted to talking to *Wit* with the box, and we know that Shallan herself was the "agent" inside the Lightweavers who killed Ialai (or, well, Radiant killed her, but Shallan was going to) , but I don't know if we got confirmation that she'd also contacted Mraize off page.
Man,i wish we'd have gotten more wrapup on the Shadesmar storylines.
Man,i wish we'd have gotten more wrapup on the Shadesmar storylines.
Yeah, Brandon has talked about that. I saw it in this interview, but he might have discussed it elsewhere too. Basically, the original plan was that book 4 would be the first real look at the Parshendi, and the flashbacks would be exploring those mysteries for the first time. But while writing the earlier books, he realized that plan just wasn't going to work. That left the book 4 flashbacks in a weird spot, where he just couldn't make them as interesting or as impactful as the flashbacks in the first three books.
I feel like the part that really dragged it down was
Eshonai being dead the entire time but still getting flashbacks. That sorta felt like... too much. We know her story from her perspective in the second book - that in particular felt like retreading the same ground. Didn't help that Venli's history didn't have a lot going on by itself.
I thought that there might be a swerve coming - Eshonai's still alive, she Kelsier'd herself, something - but nah she really just dies. It wasn't a bad moment, her being reassured by the Stormfather before passing on, but still.
Well I have no idea where this series is going after this book.
Like, I get the whole 10 day thing is going to happen and the book will probably take place in those 10 days but... what is going to happen after that exactly? I guess that's why 1-5 and 6-10 are considered separate sequences. Also after every one of these books:I want to know so much more about Renarin and now Rlain and this whole order of corrupted spren. The book that I'm most excited for is Renarin's.
Thinking about it, it seems like there's something pretty special/unique about each focus character and I'm trying to figure them all out:
Kaladin - Bond with Syl, who is the Ancient Daughter, also one of the first new Radiants
Shallan - Killed her first spren
Dalinar - Bondsmiths are fairly unique/special just by the nature of why they are
Venli - First Singer to form a bond
Szeth - Uh, Nightblood I guess?
Lift - Fueled by Lifelight, not Stormlight
Renarin - Corrupted/enlightened spren, maybe even a whole different kind of order?
Shalash - A Herald
Talenel - Also a Herald
Jasnah - Not really sure yet???
Thinking about it, it seems like there's something pretty special/unique about each focus character and I'm trying to figure them all out:
Kaladin - Bond with Syl, who is the Ancient Daughter, also one of the first new Radiants
Shallan - Killed her first spren
Dalinar - Bondsmiths are fairly unique/special just by the nature of why they are
Venli - First Singer to form a bond
Szeth - Uh, Nightblood I guess?
Lift - Fueled by Lifelight, not Stormlight
Renarin - Corrupted/enlightened spren, maybe even a whole different kind of order?
Shalash - A Herald
Talenel - Also a Herald
Jasnah - Not really sure yet???
Motherfucker.
Okay, I'm still in part 1, and I'm thankful for everyone here for using spoilers appropriately.
But I have a theory about what's going to happen to Kaladin and his family, based on what Brandon is setting up:
If you respond to my post to confirm or deny my theory, please put it in spoilers. I'll quote myself on this post once I'm done reading RoW
Okay, I'm still in part 1, and I'm thankful for everyone here for using spoilers appropriately.
But I have a theory about what's going to happen to Kaladin and his family, based on what Brandon is setting up:
So, Lirin and Hesina are in Urithuru. Kaladin is "retired," and back to living with his family. We know that the Fused are planning an assault on it.
From WoK, one of Lirin's most important lessons for Kaladin is that he can't save everyone, and it's important to focus on who he can save.
AND we know that Kaladin can't fucking handle loss or potential loss at all, which is PROBABLY what his fourth oath is, which is why he can't say it yet.
So FUCKING BRANDO SANDO IS GONNA FUCKING KILL LIRIN AND MAYBE HESINA AND HIS BABY BROTHER SO KALADIN CAN FINALLY LEARN TO GIVE UP HIS SAVIOUR COMPLEX AND GOD DAMN IT
I hope I'm not right but fuck I think I might be
From WoK, one of Lirin's most important lessons for Kaladin is that he can't save everyone, and it's important to focus on who he can save.
AND we know that Kaladin can't fucking handle loss or potential loss at all, which is PROBABLY what his fourth oath is, which is why he can't say it yet.
So FUCKING BRANDO SANDO IS GONNA FUCKING KILL LIRIN AND MAYBE HESINA AND HIS BABY BROTHER SO KALADIN CAN FINALLY LEARN TO GIVE UP HIS SAVIOUR COMPLEX AND GOD DAMN IT
I hope I'm not right but fuck I think I might be
If you respond to my post to confirm or deny my theory, please put it in spoilers. I'll quote myself on this post once I'm done reading RoW
Finished it a little earlier, some scattered thoughts...
I really do feel like we'll need a sitdown and explain the entire Cosmere chapter(s) in upcoming books. I enjoy the Investiture system and how it all works in a similar fashion, but the different off-shoots for each world (Stormlight, Voidlight, Anti Light, etc for the other series methods of Investiture) makes my eyes go crooked sometimes.
I appreciate that Mraize mentions that Stormlight is special because it is literally clean, renewable energy lol. Thaidakar remains a loose thread though I'm still on board with it being Kelsier in some way.
I liked that we finally got some good Wit/Hoid stuff. Probably one of my favorite characters; The story about the dog and the dragon was a nice touch.
Shallan's story sorta... wrapped up rather quickly, I feel like. The whole thing with Formless was resolved a little too cleanly for my taste--and I know we haven't seen the last of it--but I felt like there was a lot of build up for very little release.
Maya is the GOAT. I liked Adolin in this book and I'm really glad he didn't go Radiant. I like him having a bond with Maya that's actually built up over time and isn't a Nahel Bond.
A seon being mentioned got me hype. Elantris is my fave.
After 4 books, I'm sorta over Kaladin getting his deus ex machina at the exact moment it's needed the most. Even if this one was a literal Henshin lmao. It's always exciting, but each book feels like he's getting a soft reset so he can build back up to a new Ideal. I feel like the Fourth Ideal wasn't earned in this one especially since he was consistently failing the Third Ideal. I even think that the Fourth Ideal and the Third Ideal are a little contradictory at times and I wish/hope Sanderson starts leaning into the fact that the higher Ideals should be very hard to maintain.
Where the fuck was Lopen god dammit. I love that bastard.
Overall I feel like Kaladin's chapters leaned a little too hard on the mental illness angle; It was kinda hamfisted and awkward at times. It just felt kinda felt like a juvenile understanding of depression and PTSD.
Navani fuckin' rules.
I appreciate that Mraize mentions that Stormlight is special because it is literally clean, renewable energy lol. Thaidakar remains a loose thread though I'm still on board with it being Kelsier in some way.
I liked that we finally got some good Wit/Hoid stuff. Probably one of my favorite characters; The story about the dog and the dragon was a nice touch.
Shallan's story sorta... wrapped up rather quickly, I feel like. The whole thing with Formless was resolved a little too cleanly for my taste--and I know we haven't seen the last of it--but I felt like there was a lot of build up for very little release.
Maya is the GOAT. I liked Adolin in this book and I'm really glad he didn't go Radiant. I like him having a bond with Maya that's actually built up over time and isn't a Nahel Bond.
A seon being mentioned got me hype. Elantris is my fave.
After 4 books, I'm sorta over Kaladin getting his deus ex machina at the exact moment it's needed the most. Even if this one was a literal Henshin lmao. It's always exciting, but each book feels like he's getting a soft reset so he can build back up to a new Ideal. I feel like the Fourth Ideal wasn't earned in this one especially since he was consistently failing the Third Ideal. I even think that the Fourth Ideal and the Third Ideal are a little contradictory at times and I wish/hope Sanderson starts leaning into the fact that the higher Ideals should be very hard to maintain.
Where the fuck was Lopen god dammit. I love that bastard.
Overall I feel like Kaladin's chapters leaned a little too hard on the mental illness angle; It was kinda hamfisted and awkward at times. It just felt kinda felt like a juvenile understanding of depression and PTSD.
Navani fuckin' rules.
I hate myself. That's how. My head hurts!
You are wrong. Thankfully since that'd be a really upsetting twist imo.
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AWWW YEAH.
Gotta read one of the side books first to get the complete experience then I get to the beef and potatoes. Man cant wait.
Anyone else in love with the audiobooks? I dont have time to read so I listen to books at work and I love the narrators in all of Sandersons books. I think if I were reading them traditionally I would be missing out and limiting my experience, if that makes any sense.
Gotta read one of the side books first to get the complete experience then I get to the beef and potatoes. Man cant wait.
Anyone else in love with the audiobooks? I dont have time to read so I listen to books at work and I love the narrators in all of Sandersons books. I think if I were reading them traditionally I would be missing out and limiting my experience, if that makes any sense.
About one of your points:
Thaidakar is 100% Kelsier considering Hoid tells Shallan that he has to pass on a message to "tell the Lord of Scars that I'll come to his planet and slap him around again" or something to that effect. Kelsier's known for his scars and also is literally the only person Hoid has been able to hurt for like a thousand years because he's incapable of directly harming people, supposedly.
Also, some things I'm musing on about like, full Cosmere endgame stuff:
Either Cultivation completely fucked up by setting up Taravangian to take Odium as he's clearly more of an endgame villain than Rayse was... or she's "cultivating" things to prime them for some bigger plan and she's the mastermind behind the scenes of trying to gain power in the Cosmere.
