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Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
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Got bored and decided to go through Voyager again. I'm at the end of season 1 and just got to the episode with the space nazi who built the atom bomb that destroyed Neelix's planet. And holy shit I had forgotten just how much Neelix sucks as a character, and how awful the episodes about him are.

In this episode:

-Neelix admits that he didn't know Kess only lived for 8 years when he fell in love with her. Meaning he just fell in love with the new born infant without knowing she wasn't an infant relative to her species first, as though that's an improvement.

-Neelix is talking about how the space nazi killed his mother, his father, and his brother, and Kess is like "Do you hate the Nazi because of that, or is it because you were a coward and can't stand yourself?" Uuuuh... hating the dude because he made a weapon that ripped your mom and dad into space dust is a pretty valid reason

-Janeway continuously scolds Neelix for being apprehensive against his species' version of J Robert oppenheimer, as though Neelix is being unreasonable

-The space nazi tries to turn the tables when he's given shit for developing the bomb by going "oh ya, well how many people did you kill in the war, BOTH SIDES" and nobody calls him on this. The space Nazis invaded Neelix's home world, if Neelix killed anybody (and the twist is he didn't), it was literally in self defense against an invading army. But this is brought up in front of lots of people and they're like "God, both of you just drop it already!"

-Neelix FORGIVES the guy under the pretense that the dude was "just following orders" and the development of the bomb was inevitable, and even though he succeeded at killing everyone Neelix knew, at least he tried and failed to bring them back.

As I keep going in the show, I'll bring up all the ways Neelix sucks in episodes surrounding him. By far one of the worst written characters in Star Trek. What dreck.
 
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Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,585
ugh. I read that whole thing. Which reminds me...Tuvix is probably still in the transporter buffer somewhere. They should bring him back, and then resplit him so we can can 2 Neelixes, and 2 Tuvoks.
 

MysteryM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,747
Neelix and Kes were terrible, and you are within reasonable grounds to skip past any episodes that predominately feature them, the same goes with any
Deanna\lwaxana troi tng\ds9 episodes.

Now Quark on the other hand is a lovable rouge, and its mandated that all appropriate ds9 episodes must be watched.
 
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Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Neelix and Kes were terrible, and you are within reasonable grounds to skip past any episodes that predominately feature them, the same goes with any
Deanna\lwaxana troi episodes.

Now Quark on the other hand is a lovable rouge, and its mandated that all episodes must be watched.

Quark is real as fuck.



And when push comes to shove, he actually stands up against DS9's version of Space Nazis.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,396
The timeline of the Kes-Neelix relationship pre-Voyager never really made sense to me. Early on they act like they're old friends, but IIRC Kes is like maybe a year and a half old when Voyager starts. Presumably she wasn't gallavanting outside of the Ocampa compound for all of that either.

Though the weirdest part of the Kes storyline is how she canonically leaves Voyager to discover her true powers, only to become a murderous, vengeful telepath of incredible power... before being pacified by her past self. It's a wildly grim storyline for such an unassuming, gentle character.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,164
I was watching the episode where Neelix gets really controlling a possessive of Jess when he finds out Tim Paris likes her.

The only good Berlin episode for me was when he dies and has a crises of faith.
 
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Deleted member 12790

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The timeline of the Kes-Neelix relationship pre-Voyager never really made sense to me. Early on they act like they're old friends, but IIRC Kes is like maybe a year and a half old when Voyager starts. Presumably she wasn't gallavanting outside of the Ocampa compound for all of that either.

Though the weirdest part of the Kes storyline is how she canonically leaves Voyager to discover her true powers, only to become a murderous, vengeful telepath of incredible power... before being pacified by her past self. It's a wildly grim storyline for such an unassuming, gentle character.

The worst part about the Neelix pedophilia shit is how many die hard trekkies come up with their "ackshully it's hebephilia don't judge by your prude standards" bullshit about how she's technically matured because she got her period at 1 years old.
 
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Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
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On the same note, the way a few episodes prior, Janeway is all "I have to refuse this warp drive that could get us home immediately because of FEDERATION REASONS" to the point where her crew has to go behind her back, which causes them to fuck up, then repeatedly breaks Federation decorum throughout the rest of the series is so stupid.
 

ivantod

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,492
Mortal Coil is a good Neelix episode imo.
Agreed. Mortal Coil is one of the best Voyager episodes.

You can skip the other Neelix stuff, but Mortal Coil and Tuvix are good.

Also, Kes was pretty blah as a character so I didn't mind when they got rid of her, especially since it opened the door for Seven of Nine, which was a much more interesting character, not to mention that Jeri Ryan is a far better actress than the lady who portrayed Kes.
 
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Deleted member 27246

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Oct 30, 2017
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The worst part about the Neelix pedophilia shit is how many die hard trekkies come up with their "ackshully it's hebephilia don't judge by your prude standards" bullshit about how she's technically matured because she got her period at 1 years old.

I don't know shit about Ocampas but acoording to the wiki they reach adulthood within months, so I assume the creators of Voyager meant her to be adult when she meets Neelix.
 
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Deleted member 12790

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I don't know shit about Ocampas but acoording to the wiki they reach adulthood within months, so I assume the creators of Voyager meant her to be adult when she meets Neelix.

lol, you literally stopped one sentence too short:

They aged very rapidly, resulting in an average life span of only nine years. Consequently, they developed and learned extremely quickly. Most of their growth took place in the first six months, and by one year old, they had reached a young adult stage. They remained in this stage for several years.

Between the ages of four and five, female Ocampa entered the elogium, the time of sexual maturation.

They reach an adult-sized body at age 1. They don't reach puberty till 4 or five. Kes is 1.5-2 years old in Voyager. That's why she leaves the show. Prior to that, Neelix is dating her and grooming her and is crushed when she leaves once she's actually sexually mature.
 

Deleted member 27246

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lol, you literally stopped one sentence too short:



They reach an adult-sized body at age 1. They don't reach puberty till 4 or five. Kes is 1.5-2 years old in Voyager.

Lol. Yuk.

Guess that is what you get when you make up such ridiculous aliens.

I fucking hate Neelix anyway, so carry on slandering him.
 
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Deleted member 12790

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Lol. Yuk.

Guess that is what you get when you make up such ridiculous aliens.

I fucking hate Neelix anyway, so carry on slandering him.

It's even grosser because they keep peppering episodes with lines like the one I'm talking about in the OP that keeps reminding you, "oh yeah, this is actually a child he's dating."
 

TrafficCoen

The Fallen
Feb 22, 2019
1,602
Man, fuck Neelix. Guy is a possessive, annoying coward and he is an active detriment to Voyager as a show.

However I have serious gripes with almost everyone on the crew.

It's insane to me how Voyager was made concurrent with DS9 but the quality of it is so much lower
 
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Deleted member 12790

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Man, fuck Neelix. Guy is a possessive, annoying coward and he is an active detriment to Voyager as a show.

However I have serious gripes with almost everyone on the crew.

It's insane to me how Voyager was made concurrent with DS9 but the quality of it is so much lower


I will say that Voyager had a much, much better ending than DS9. DS9's ending was awful. It was incredible right up to and including the moment when Gul Dukat told Sisko at the volcano that he was reborn and was going to destroy the bjoran people... only for them to shit all down their legs during the landing.

At least voyager stuck to what they promised, even if it was a rehash of All Good Things.

Of course all of them suck compared to All Good Things, but that's because All Good Things is one of the best endings to a show ever.
 

Rassilon

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Oct 27, 2017
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I will say that Voyager had a much, much better ending than DS9. DS9's ending was awful. It was incredible right up to and including the moment when Gul Dukat told Sisko at the volcano that he was reborn and was going to destroy the bjoran people... only for them to shit all down their legs during the landing.
 
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Deleted member 12790

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lmao

I thought a much more fitting end to the Gul Dukat saga is when the Bajoran queen or whatever left him as a blind man, surgically altered to look like a bajoran, forced to beg for scraps on the streets of Bajor. That was an awesome ending for the character, there was no need to bring him back after that.
 

TrafficCoen

The Fallen
Feb 22, 2019
1,602
Ironically I'm rewatching DS9 and Voyager at the moment. I physically collapsed at my desk when I realised it was the "Neelix morning cooking show" episode
 
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Deleted member 12790

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Just rewatched the episode where Kes goes through puberty way too early, and has a small window to mate. What a fucking gross, awful episode.

Kes: "I'm going through puberty far, far too early. Normally it only happens after age 4 (species lives to about 8 years old), but I'm not even 2 years old yet. I can only reproduce during puberty once, Neelix you have to mate with me."

Neelix: "M'lady, I would doth be honored to mate with thyn 1 year old self going through le puberty."

Kes: "Wait, I've decided not to conceive."

Neelix: *Pouts*
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,914
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Neelix is just so aesthetically unappealing, too. That swooped-back tuft of hair was just disgusting.

Voyager had the worst alien designs in general. The Kazon just looked so fucking stupid.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,017
They should bring him back, and then resplit him so we can can 2 Neelixes, and 2 Tuvoks.
Twovoks?

200.gif
 
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Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Neelix is just so aesthetically unappealing, too. That swooped-back tuft of hair was just disgusting.

Voyager had the worst alien designs in general. The Kazon just looked so fucking stupid.

I read that Neelix was supposed to be Quark 2.0, a "rogue badass" of Voyager. except he comes off as a dork math teacher who went through a mid-life crisis who drives a Harley and wears aviators to his elementary school job.

Quark actually sells being a sleezy, slimeball POS. Neelix went pale when he thought he was bleeding once.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,220
Voyager is my least-favourite Trek show by a massive margin. I know they're all formulaic in their own way, but Voyager managed to pair that with characters that are about 50% tolerable and 50% unbearable.

Today Chakotay goes on some kind of vision quest. Today Tom Paris takes a shuttle out when he wasn't supposed to. Today Neelix does something really irritating, but it all turns out ok. None of those people are likeable.
 

AlwaysSalty

The Fallen
Nov 12, 2017
1,442
Anyone remember Kes last episode? The one where she killed everyone in order to go back in time to change her past? I usually love time travel episodes but holy shit that was aweful.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,017
Anyone remember Kes last episode? The one where she killed everyone in order to go back in time to change her past? I usually love time travel episodes but holy shit that was aweful.
Yeah, such a weird way to bring the character back, especially for just one episode. Granted the character wasn't particularly interesting and it seems the writers struggled with her but it was a poor send off.

Crying shame what's happened to Jennifer Lien since.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
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Oct 25, 2017
73,316
Voyager is great because everyone is secretly living their lives as Renegade Sheps from Mass Effect
 
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Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
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What is the deal with Jennifer Lien? I've never seen her in anything else, I assume she wasn't removed from the show amicably?
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
I hate Voyager, for many of those stunts. Janeway made so many decisions that go from stupid to borderline fascism, that it's not even funny anymore. Worst Trk show by far.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
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Oct 29, 2017
4,309
Are there even any Neelix centric episodes other than the one mentioned in the OP and the bit where they get rid of him in the final season? I can even remember the Harry Kim centric episodes so if there are more Neelix episodes they must not even have met that level of "quality".

EDIT:

Wait, there was an episode where aliens steal his organs. I remember that one.
 

Mr. Pointy

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Oct 28, 2017
5,141
I think the best Neelix episode is the one in season 4 where he dies, gets brought back to life with Seven's nanoprobes and has an existential crisis because there's no Talaxian afterlife.
 

Burly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,069
I remember an episode focused on Kes where it's a flash forward like 6 years in the future and old lady Kes is jumping backwards thru time and is getting progressively younger throughout the episode. In the episode you find out that B'elanna and a bunch of other crew die during the Year Of Hell, and Kes eventually marries a widowed Tom Paris and they have a baby who grows up and marries Harry Kim, who they also have a baby. By the end of the episode everything is back to normal except Kes has all her memories from the future and warns the Captain about the upcoming attack during thr Year Of Hell, and that's the end of the episode.

What they never get into though, is Kes now has to live with the memory of her husband and children who will never exist because B'elanna never dies in this future.

Also at some point Harry Kim started sleeping with his best friend's daughter that he has known since she was born.