Revisiting the controversy surrounding Dragon's Crown's art direction and character designs

[EVIL]

All characters in this game look like heavy exaggerated versions, (caricatures) of their archetypes and I have 0 problems with that. I didn't then and I def don't now.

When looking at the lineup they all somehow make sense to me and I would def have a similar approach if tasked to design characters in this art style.
I understand the sorceress would be the most difficult one, covering her up more would help still some of the argument against her, but she looks like she can revive the dead with just her touch and embrace which is how I understood her character.

 

[HK-47]

The art was clearly Frazetta inspired and it was irresponsible how a male writer from kotaku made themselves the protagonists of that story. Sure it was problematic, but a female voice would have worked better than some dude that didnt even wait for the creator to respond.

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If it was obviously problematic, why do we need someone of a certain gender to comment on it

 

[zenosparadox]

The quality of the artwork is simply amazing, but I do wish it was at least a little more grounded. For me, some of the designs are quite jarring which I was never able to get used to over the course of my playthrough. It didn't ruin the game, but it did lose a couple of points in my mind.

 

[SturokBGD]

There's no argument. Dragon's Crown is blatantly sexiest.

 

[Odeko]

There's no argument.

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The 3+ pages of this thread with differing opinions would suggest otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 18857]

This game is his own worst enemy.
Unfortunately, it's also a really good game, which is why people will defend it (no one is going to defend Code of Princess for example). It is seemingly impossible to see flaws in something you like, things are either perfect or garbage.
Someone was mocking with "Anime fans!" the poster that was defending the sorceress by saying she's actually a necromancer. I think that people who say "it's a reference to Frazetta you uncultured schmock", thus entirely missing the point of the conversation, are worse. Do games inspired by Lovecraft have to be immensely racist?

(I also love the idea of giant breasts being associated with death in Kamitani's work, though I like Odin's Sphere's Odette much more than the Sorceress.)

 

[Arthoneceron]

I think that it was a lot more controversial for the people that didn't played the game.

Looking past for the game, it has a beautiful classical style tied with some anime fetish that, considering the tone of the game, can be kinda depressing during the gameplay. I mean, everyone could be surprised with the real Sorceress, for example.

 

[thebigword]

I really loved this game but the character designs are way over the top ridiculous. I ended up using the elf as my main.

 

[Allice]

didn't the artist kinda show his hand when he implied jason schreier was gay after he criticized the sorceress design?

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Yep, and isn't it curious how all the defenders of the artstyle conveniently ignores the second part of the debacle.

Though i'm sure as soon as the conversation steers towards the artist, the replies will be 'separate the art from the artist' lol.

This game and the Devil Survivor 2 were 'it' for me.

I loved DeSu however i couldn't play DeSu 2 for more than 5 minutes, as soon as i saw the highschool girl design in the subway i put the game down and was never able to pick it up again. That game should have caught more flack for it's gross exaggeration, and keep in mind i'm only speaking for the 'art' in the first five minutes, can't even imagine the rest of the character design.

 

[Armaros]

I think that it was a lot more controversial for the people that didn't played the game.

Looking past for the game, it has a beautiful classical style tied with some anime fetish that, considering the tone of the game, can be kinda depressing during the gameplay. I mean, everyone could be surprised with the real Sorceress, for example.

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The game in motion shows the contrasts even more then just pictures of the game online.

Compare the animations/poses of female characters vs male characters.

The females characters are in hyper-sexualized poses, the male chracters are scantality clad but are not sexualized to nearly the same extent.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Can I just say I unironically like it without trying to come up with some weird justification to make it sound classier then it is?

 

[Deleted member 59339]

Can I just say I unironically like it without trying to come up with some weird justification to make it sound classier then it is?

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I wish more people would!

 

[antitrop]

It still looks great.

 

[Aexact]

This game and the Devil Survivor 2 were 'it' for me.

I loved DeSu however i couldn't play DeSu 2 for more than 5 minutes, as soon as i saw the highschool girl design in the subway i put the game down and was never able to pick it up again. That game should have caught more flack for it's gross exaggeration, and keep in mind i'm only speaking for the 'art' in the first five minutes, can't even imagine the rest of the character design.

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The overly perky breasts are pretty out there but I'm not sure if there is a notable difference between the designs of Yuzu (DS) and Io (DS2)? If that's what's being referenced here.

 

[Listai]

I enjoyed the hell out of Dragon's Crown and I'd say the critiques were justified then and are still justified now. The artwork in Dragon's Crown is inspired by Frank Frazetta which a number of posters have already noted, but it's important to note that his artwork is notoriously sexualized as well. Frazetta's work was tremendously influential in pop culture and while many of his artworks depicted both men and women nearly or completely nude, the ways that he framed men and women were completely different. His men generally have rippling muscles, weapons in hand, posed to strike some monster or giant animal. They exude power. His women are curvy, often posed with their limbs spread out to show off their bodies. I'm flipping through some artwork as I type this to make sure I'm not misconstruing things and even in the cases where he depicts female warriors, they don't have the same tensed muscles, ready to strike at foes as him men do. Rather his female warriors are just posing with weapons.

I'm making a big point about Frazetta because Kamitani made Dragon's Crown an homage to this kind of artwork which means it has the same issues as the works he is paying homage to. There's already a number of posts defending Kamitani's artwork saying that it's acceptable because everyone is exaggerated. However actually looking at each of the individual characters you'll see that they're all exaggerated in different ways. Comparing the Dwarf and the Amazon who are both nearly nude you'll see there's a huge difference. Both are muscled, but Dwarf in a way that exudes power whereas the Amazon's animations tend to be closer to cheesecake or pinup style. Between the Wizard and the Sorceress, the Wizard seems pretty normal in this cast (maybe a bit broad shouldered) whereas the Sorceress has her breasts flopping all over the place in her animations and is generally depicted leaning forward to give a better view of her bosom. Like Frazetta's work, the depiction and framing of men and women is hugely different.

This being a video game at least all the playable characters get to be fighting badasses, but the disparity between how men and women are portrayed gets worse when we look at the NPCs. The female NPCs within the levels where you choose between route A or B through the level such as the Mermaid are basically just there to show off nearly naked women, often in a state of distress or weakness. And the unlockable artwork for completing quests is often just as bad or worse.

So basically what I'm trying to say is Dragon's Crown is sexist. Aping sexist media doesn't absolve the sexism. It's a great game and it's fine to enjoy it, but it's not beyond critique. The artwork is astounding on a technical level, but how it depicts things is a problem. The only difference between when the game released and now is that there's arguably more mainstream, more sexualized designs in some games than what's here. And that's because of normalization, because people don't want to view the things they like with a critical eye. The general Fantasy/D&D nerd culture of the 80's was a boy's club and while culturally important, Frazetta's artwork contributed to that. I'd say that culture is a better and more inclusive place today, but trying to cling to those old ways held it back for a long time. Same thing with games. It's still seen as a boy's club and people trying to cling to the old ways, but without realizing (or caring) that it's excluding other people. Our hobby is better and more well rounded when we more a greater variety of people playing, talking about, and creating games.

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Thanks for the write up, I knew I'd seen this kind of style before but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Arthoneceron]

The game in motion shows the contrasts even more then just pictures of the game online.

Compare the animations/poses of female characters vs male characters.

The females characters are in hyper-sexualized poses, the male chracters are scantality clad but are not sexualized to nearly the same extent.

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I'm not implying the otherwise. I'm just saying that the game, due to it's tone, turns the things a lot more dense than a barely candy-eye for unsuspecting people.

Also, there are worse things for me on the gaming industry than a boob and a bikini armor (after all, I'm not a teenager anymore), even being with much less sex-appeal. Catherine is an example of that.

 

[Venom.]

Under this cultural view men want to be strong (notice you talked about men going to the gym) and women are meant to be sexy and attractive (notice how you mentioned women with respect to magazines & instagram).

I'm bringing this up in part because reconsidering how culture has shaped our gender & sex expectations might help you see where you made your mistake.

But you framing it this ways honestly has me doubting your intentions, as it seems that you're attempting to brush off those concerns as hysteria generated by the media. Same with your bulleted list as it seems like you're trying to flip the script to paint those pointing out the issues as the real issue.

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Ha ha!

Firstly about the gym and instagram example, you dismissed the point because you seem to think there shouldn't be gender norms -whether that should be the case or not there are, and by mentioning that I go to the gym it in no way means that I don't think women should go to the gym, and there are women who go to my gym. However you got caught up in crowbarring an opinion of yours that wasn't relevant.

Listen Fishious I'm up for an intelligent debate with someone whose opinion differs from my own but there is no need to be condescending. When you say you're going to help me with my mistake, you are speaking as if your opinion is right and mine is wrong, not realising that isn't the case but they are different and we both believe ourselves to be right.

Again let me reiterate, if you have a different opinion from me that's fine but when you go off on doubting my intentions? What, do you think I'm lying about my opinion?!! I think you just want to argue, but I'd rather not. It's late. So thank you and good luck.

 

[Crayon]

There's no argument. Dragon's Crown is blatantly sexiest.

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Oh yah. I like the style overall but it is blatantly sexist. If anyone's afraid of being judged for liking sexist thing, denying the sexism is not the way to deal with it.

 

[ZSeibar]

Art style was a huge turn off. The game wasn't even that good even so 🤷

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I loved the game (it was my GOTY), but I didn't like most of the character designs at all.

It wasn't just the sorceress either. She was honestly not even the worst part. A lot of the discussion about the game focused entirely on her and not enough on all the rest of the sexism, which was really off-putting.

- For instance, every single female NPC is either heavily sexualized (the shopkeeper, the nun, etc.), bovine-eyed and useless (the princess), or both (the female prisoners).

- The playable character animations. Oh boy. The sorceress and the amazon both had ridiculous animations that always heavily accentuated their T&A, whether they were running, attacking, or taking damage. The KO animation on the amazon just had her show her butt to the screen (in a borderline pornographic pose that made no sense), IIRC. And the sorceress was no better, with panty shots etc. None of the male characters had stupid and demeaning animations like this.

- Another thing is the unlockable gallery. Whenever you completed side-objectives, you'd unlock some artwork, and a lot of it featured such heavily sexualization (of women, always -- never men) that it was borderline hentai. (See links below under spoiler tag for examples)

The claim that the game sexualizes or objectifies men "just as much" is patently false, too. None of the male characters have demeaning poses. None of the male NPCs, even the scantily clad one (like that Conan lookalike), were drawn and presented in helpless, pathetic, sexualized poses, making grotesque moaning sounds, etc.


It's not far-off. A lot of it was very NSFW.

Spoiler: links to NSFW in-game artworks

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c2/27/45/c2274536f1ac047ea7e4e8dbe8a1753d.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QMj0mL6.jpg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/32/1375839115-6.jpg

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This is a very accurate read on the game. I'm a huge Vanillaware fan but Dragon's Crown is absolutely pandering and over the top in regards to the designs of both playable and non-playable characters. There is no getting around that. Kamitani's artistry (and that of the rest of his team) is nothing short of impressive, especially in terms of the backgrounds and enemy designs, but that coexists with an absurd level of objectification and sexualization going on.

Contrast that to, say, Odin Sphere, and the difference is stark. Kamitani was definitely drawing on the style of pulp DnD and fantasy comics, but that doesn't change the fact that the designs are going to be incredibly off-putting for people. I still think Dragon's Crown is their weakest game, and the high degree of pandering plays a part in that.

Muramasa has instances of pandering as well but it's much less abrasive in its depiction and is also tonally consistent with the Japanese folklore it is pulling from (which can be shockingly sexual and crass).

 

[MonadL]

I love Dragon's Crown and the character designs but yeah...some of the art definitely went a little too far. Everyone has already brought up the nun.

 

[Menx64]

The game always looked great to me. I know the game is borderline sexiest, but I still thought it was just their weird style. Muramasa was great.

 

[Deleted member 9241]

My kids loved it!

 

[Allice]

The overly perky breasts are pretty out there but I'm not sure if there is a notable difference between the designs of Yuzu (DS) and Io (DS2)? If that's what's being referenced here.

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I was able to ignore Yu's art for the most part, however Lo's(?) art was unbearable for me. Schoolgirl outfit that looks like it could burst out anytime was wayyy too much 'in your face' for me.

The difference of the anatomy between the two should be obvious if you look them up again.*

* I looked them up before replying to ensure that my memory was not off and good god, i think i actually undersold it.
That 3rd picture on Lo's google result is just bleh worthy, i won't post that trash here.

 

[Wulfric]

I see no problem with Dragons Crown's art. I actually like it a lot. Reminds me of old DnD art. Everything is exaggerated and in context of its world doesnt seem sleezy at all. Over the top yes, gross no.

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Agreed, the color palette is very Jeff Easley/Hildebrandt Brothers to me.

I honestly love the disformed figures and weird armor. It feels like 90s Boris Vallejo/Julie Bell fantasy art. Yes, there are breasts but that's not the focus of the overall group images. Frazetta painted sexy women too, but they were strong AF fighting the same creatures he had depicted Conan fighting.

However, I can understand that this particular style is not for everyone.

 

[L Thammy]

Since we're posting our own personal takes on it. I think Kamitani's a really talented artist. Muramasa was totally made by the art, for instance, and while it had some of this it wasn't everywhere. I also think it's hard to deny that he does sometimes put thought into some of the highly sexualized parts of his art - again with Muramasa, there's an art of Momohime fighting with an an octopus that may be a reference to The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife, which was famous for being tentacle hentai from the 1800s.

Having that said, I don't like the Dragon's Crown. It's done skillfully, but it's also skeevy and grotesque in a very unironically chauvinistic way. Considering that Dungeons & Dragons seems to only get more socially aware and stress equality more over time, it's a throwback to the worst parts of it.

In fact, even looking at it as a throwback. From what I've seen, Frank Frazetta's artwork revolve around the heroic build. Yes, it's often very chauvinistic itself, showing women possessed by men. But the women's builds are in a sense very similar to the men's builds in that they're all extremely fit; if a Frazetta woman is fighting a beast her muscles will be detailed and emphasized as well. If Kamitani was trying to exaggerate that, he's focused on the chauvism part and missed a lot of the heroic build part; it's mostly just the Amazon that fits. The elf would be totally out of place in Frazetta art and could be snapped like a twig by the women he depicted, while the Sorceress has an exaggeration of a Marilyn Monroe hourglass figure which is a much different, far less lean and athletic build.

If you wanted to justify exaggerated sexualization with uniform exaggerated, I'm sure it could have been done better. Take Dark Sun, which is the D&D setting where a bunch of musclebound bald people fight weird bug things in the desert while dressed in BDSM gear. The justification is blatantly ridiculous - dressing like that is actually more likely to get you a sunburn - but it's more true to getting that Frazetta heroic image. It's a world where everyone is a scary badass because that's what you have to be to survive.


This is kind of a tangent, but as a straight guy, I feel like it's kind of degrading if a developer seems to think I want to be titillated all the damn time. Like, it sometimes makes me feel like the developers aren't confident enough in their product that they think they can rely on the other selling points, or that they think I'm a sheep who will mindless buy anything if breasts are waved in my face.

A recent example is Super Robot Wars DD, which just came out on mobile a while ago. Super Robot Wars has a very pronounced and unique selling point: it's a crossover between a ton of mecha anime. This entry itself has Gundam, Evangelion, and even Devilman for that reason. But in this one they give you the ability to equip girls onto your mechs so that whenever you attack, there's a cut-in of the girl encouraging you. They even give you one for free; the new original designed character that doesn't zip her jumpsuit up all the way, and the camera goes right for her jiggling breasts. Again, every single time you attack.

It's the gacha market so it's to be expected. But it still struck me as kind of ridiculous. Like, you already got me with the robots things. I don't really need you to do this. I'd have rather you focused on strengthening the existing selling points. If my main interest was looking at bouncing anime breasts, I could find better places for that than your game.

In that same market, Honkai Impact bugs me on a similar level, because they genuinely put together a fun (if fairly barebones) character action game for mobile, but they still try to sell it to me in the skeeviest way they can.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Dragon's Crown is a disgusting game to look at. The character designs are so bad it isn't even funny. I'm going to admit I didn't even give the actual game a chance because the way it looked was that big of a turn off. I loaded the game up saw what I saw and promptly closed the game.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Can I just say I unironically like it without trying to come up with some weird justification to make it sound classier then it is?

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Why would you not be able to do that? People on this forum regularly talk about which celebrities they find attractive or which porn stars they like, things that involve the objectification of real people and not fantasy characters in a video game.

 

[Isilia]

I just couldn't stop cringing as I played through the game. It always kept trying to outdo its last sexist moment with something far worse barely 15 minutes later.

It was, to me, not even a good game even if I were to somehow look past all that.

 

[Aexact]

I was able to ignore Yu's art for the most part, however Lo's(?) art was unbearable for me. Schoolgirl outfit that looks like it could burst out anytime was wayyy too much 'in your face' for me.

The difference of the anatomy between the two should be obvious if you look them up again.*

* I looked them up before replying to ensure that my memory was not off and good god, i think i actually undersold it.
That 3rd picture on Lo's google result is just bleh worthy, i won't post that trash here.

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I mean I looked it up and they came across about the same to me. Don't get me wrong, there's a bunch of stuff in DS2 that is more distractingly pandering than DS (the Butler/bunny girl companion, the tone shift SLinks) but I didn't get that impression that the breaking point would be Io considering her equivalent first girl party member Yuzu.


For reference of what I was looking at.
Yuzu

Io

Like I guess Io is more pushed up? Everyone's got their different breaking points I suppose.

 

[Metal B]

I'd think Dragon's Crown feature plenty of the bolded. Other than the elf, the women in the game are either grotesque sex objects, useless/vapid, or both.

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I clearly understand and in a perfect world, this would be the odd case and not so common. But i feel, it is so sexist and extreme macho, that it becomes a self parody. Putting so much detail into the artwork, for such an bad outlook, just feels like over the top power fantasy, that should not be taken seriously at all (I actually like it more, beeing a fictional fantasy world, instead of highly sexual woman in a real-life setting, which is a much bigger problem in my opinion). Sometimes it is just exciting to drawl in the forbidden and your own animalistic nature ... but again, sadly it is properly not the right timeperoid, for such niche thematic.

Seeing this thread, it is a good overall outcome, that not many people like it.

 

[CJCW?]

Personally love the art, both in its quality and the look of the characters, but I can more than understand it effectively ruining the game for people. I also won't ignore Kamitani's terrible response to the criticism, basically saying "well you must be gay". Also kind of a shame that the whole controversy overshadowed what is otherwise a great game.

 

[Fisty]

It was hyper-sexualized and over the top, but the art style was definitely evocative of classic fantasy designs and commendably consistent throughout the game. Game looked amazing on that OLED too, I mained the Amazon

 

[Silvergun-Blue]

Some of the responses in this thread are basically the embodiment of this meme.

I like Dragon's Crown, I even liked it's art style for the most part.
But let's be honest here people, virtually every single image in the game featuring a female character is drawn for the sole purpose of making nerdy guys horny. You don't need to twist and turn and invent totally contrived reasons as to why it makes sense or is sensible.

 

[Deleted member 59339]

In regards to the objectification, I guess this is the distinction for me:

There was a comic book fairly recently called Heroes in Crisis. It was a really serious story, attempting to tackle subject matter like depression, suicide, PTSD, etc.

One of the subplots in the book involves these therapy confessionals that were recorded on video, and then the videos were leaked to Lois Lane.

There's a scene in Lois and Clark's apartment, where the two of them are having a discussion about what to do with that leaked information. Basically talking it out to determine how to proceed, considering the potential ramifications of different choices, factoring in the sensitive nature of the information.

And in that scene, Lois is drawn wearing a Superman t-shirt, pulling the bottom of it down to make her tits stick out more, bracing herself against part of the door, and lifting one knee up to accentuate her legs more. It's a glamour pose, like she was doing a photo shoot. And it's completely inappropriate and unwanted sexualization in the middle of a very serious story where we're being asked to think of these comic book characters as being very real.

I found that to be troubling and distasteful. To me, that is sexist art.

But Dragon's Crown isn't that to me.

Dragon's Crown is objectifying, just like that Lois Lane art was objectifying, but the context is completely different.

Dragon's Crown is closer to just being pornography. I don't say that dismissively, and I don't mean it as a criticism. I think its goals are roughly the same as that of pornography, so while it is certainly objectifying women and treating them as objects of sexual desire, that's basically what pornography does and is.

The characters in the game really aren't characters at all, they're just avatars, and I don't feel like the objectification of them is a betrayal of anything else that's going on with them, the way I felt when I was reading Heroes in Crisis, where the art was at odds with the story.

So I don't even disagree that the art in Dragon's Crown is just trying to objectify and titillate, but when I say it's doing those things, I don't intend it as criticism. I think the game is basically porn, and that it's okay for a game to basically be porn, and that the objectifying nature of porn isn't inherently harmful.

Just my 2¢.✌🏻

 

[Allice]

I mean I looked it up and they came across about the same to me. Don't get me wrong, there's a bunch of stuff in DS2 that is more distractingly pandering than DS (the Butler/bunny girl companion, the tone shift SLinks) but I didn't get that impression that the breaking point would be Io considering her equivalent first girl party member Yuzu.


For reference of what I was looking at.
Yuzu

Io

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Even in this comparison everything about Lo's design seems insufferable to me. I probably couldn't ignore it due to the schoolgirl outfit, however, Lo's art&anatomy still looks way over the top compared to Yuzu's.

Anyway, i'm glad i dropped it early as by your description it sounds like pandering gets worse and worse.

 

[Khanimus]

It's obnoxious fan-service for horny nerds who think there's anything elevated about their shallow wank material.

"WELL ACTUALLY --"

Give me a break.

 

[Fishious]

Ha ha!

Firstly about the gym and instagram example, you dismissed the point because you seem to think there shouldn't be gender norms -whether that should be the case or not there are, and by mentioning that I go to the gym it in no way means that I don't think women should go to the gym, and there are women who go to my gym. However you got caught up in crowbarring an opinion of yours that wasn't relevant.

Listen Fishious I'm up for an intelligent debate with someone whose opinion differs from my own but there is no need to be condescending. When you say you're going to help me with my mistake, you are speaking as if your opinion is right and mine is wrong, not realising that isn't the case but they are different and we both believe ourselves to be right.

Again let me reiterate, if you have a different opinion from me that's fine but when you go off on doubting my intentions? What, do you think I'm lying about my opinion?!! I think you just want to argue, but I'd rather not. It's late. So thank you and good luck.

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Perhaps I should have lead with this, but I really do appreciate the fact that you actually articulated your position in your original post and here as well. I don't think we'll see eye to eye ultimately which is what is is, but I'd like to make sure we each understand the other's positions. In my read of your first post, I believe you're approaching this from the perspective of assuming the criticism arises from issues with women's standards of beauty? Is that correct? My criticism is how the artwork objectifies women. I can't speak for everyone with criticisms in this thread, but I got a couple of congratulatory quotes so I feel like I'm on the right track. So basically my thought was you were misunderstanding the reason for the criticism against Dragon's Crown. I wasn't trying to pull a gotcha, I wanted to point out what I saw as a little way in culture can influence our thought process without necessarily realizing it.

And while I'm clarifying, it's not that I don't think there should be gender norms, it's that there are negative aspects to traditional masculinity and femininity that cause issues for people in our culture. Traditional masculinity tends to push aggression and strength while traditional femininity passivity and attractiveness. Under this model men should be masculine and women should be feminine. Men should be powerful conquerors and the women should want to be their prize. Men who don't match up are hurt by these expectations that arise from society and often close off their emotions. Women under this model lack agency and effectively are owned by men. We no longer live in such a rigid society and the definitions of masculinity and femininity have changed, but there are still negative aspects. Basically what I'd want is for these negative aspects to continue to disappear so that people aren't harmed by them. Please don't hold it against me for not being exhaustive, but it's a complicated systemic issue and I don't really have the time to do it justice here. Additionally this is entirely my own beliefs and I'm actually very open to other people's point of view on this topic.

I'll go ahead and apologize if you're being sincere, but ever since Gamergate became a thing I tend to scrutinize word choice. I've seen plenty of bad actors pretending to argue in good faith and I couldn't really tell going by your post. There were some things that raised an eyebrow, but I still replied under the assumption you were arguing in good faith. Once again sorry for questioning your intentions.

That being said, even in good faith, you did misconstrue several topics. It's not about disallowing attractive characters, it's about criticizing objectification. It's not about disallowing certain art styles, it's about criticizing objectification. Anyways, I'd be glad to hear about your view on the matter in greater detail if you're willing, otherwise enjoy the rest of the night.

 

[DoradoWinston]

the most distracting thing for me is the dude in armour with his tiny head and shoulders that are as big as the woman to his right lmao

 

[-PXG-]

See

All you're missing here is a tip of your hat and a "milady", m'lord.


Ahh another connoisseur of fine art and telling others their views are manufactured outrage. Please continue doing your thing.



Ahh the good old "America - if you don't like it leave" defence. Sorry, it's a questionable piece of art in a frickin video game and people have the right to an opinion on its merits.


And this is a good way to give an opinion on it without being a classless chud

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I will continue doing my thing, actually. I don't feel bad and won't feel bad, thanks. Literally everything in Vanillaware games have exaggerated poses, animation and proportions. You don't have to like it but don't act like it's harmful in anyway. Because it isn't. Silly, maybe, that's about it.

 

[HK-47]

Agreed, the color palette is very Jeff Easley/Hildebrandt Brothers to me.

I honestly love the disformed figures and weird armor. It feels like 90s Boris Vallejo/Julie Bell fantasy art. Yes, there are breasts but that's not the focus of the overall group images. Frazetta painted sexy women too, but they were strong AF fighting the same creatures he had depicted Conan fighting.

However, I can understand that this particular style is not for everyone.

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As mentioned earlier, there is a serious difference between the framing and posing of men and women in Frazetta art

 

[Hero]

I didn't mind it and I thought Schreier's crusade against it was weird. I can understand and respect people that it doesn't suit their personal preference, though, and welcome them to play other games.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I like Vanillaware's entire style. I 100% understand why many, particularly women, find it gross. It's very indulgent and basically no different to the deluge of "bikini armor" type designs that is frustratingly consistent in industry character design where sex appeal for female characters is prioritized over actual character. The even grosser undercurrent is how Kamitani made that "are you gay" type joke in response to issues with the over the top sexualization of female characters. He apologized after but that kind of blatantly abhorrent mindset does color the impressions of the designs.

 

[Pla-pla-place holder]

Can I just say I unironically like it without trying to come up with some weird justification to make it sound classier then it is?

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Count me in for this too

 

[Shinobido Heart]

You'll never take this away from me! It's mine! :P

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Funny story, when I picked this up from my local Gamestop, the manager was like ''Dude, this artbook is super lewd. It's amazing."

 

[ScOULaris]

You'll never take this away from me! It's mine! :P



Funny story, when I picked this up from my local Gamestop, the manager was like ''Dude, this artbook is super lewd. It's amazing."

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Yeah. Still have my copy as well.

And there's more where that came from this September.

https://personacentral.com/dragons-crown-official-artworks-english/

 

[Deleted member 59339]

And there's more where that came from this September.

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The art book I have is 64 pages, and it says this new one is over 200. Is there overlap between the contents?

 

[Moebius]

The painterly art style was beautiful. It's one of the coolest looking games of last gen.

 

[Velezcora]

I honestly found Jason's crying over Kamitani making a gay joke towards him over his criticism far more offensive than anything Kamitani has done.

Like seriously fuck you dude my sexual identity isn't something you should be getting upset about being associated with. Gay is not an insult!

 

[Morrigan]

Spoiler: Maybe NSFW

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This comic is BS because Kamitani actually tried to make excuses referencing goddesses of fertility and so on, IIRC.

The art was clearly Frazetta inspired and it was irresponsible how a male writer from kotaku made themselves the protagonists of that story. Sure it was problematic, but a female voice would have worked better than some dude that didnt even wait for the creator to respond.

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Oh please. This is comical levels of concern trolling.

I will continue doing my thing, actually. I don't feel bad and won't feel bad, thanks. Literally everything in Vanillaware games have exaggerated poses, animation and proportions. You don't have to like it but don't act like it's harmful in anyway. Because it isn't. Silly, maybe, that's about it.

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I too love when dudes tell us what kind of sexism is harmful and what isn't, and completely ignore posts explaining why the "exaggerated" style is not equivalent by gender~

I didn't mind it and I thought Schreier's crusade against it was weird. I can understand and respect people that it doesn't suit their personal preference, though, and welcome them to play other games.

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How about I still play that game, but also criticize it for the blatant sexism in it? Is that OK with you or are we just being "weird"?

Edit:

I honestly found Jason's crying over Kamitani making a gay joke towards him over his criticism far more offensive than anything Kamitani has done.

Like seriously fuck you dude my sexual identity isn't something you should be getting upset about being associated with. Gay is not an insult!

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This is bizarre. Why are you mad at Jason and not Kamitani?