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Reuters: COVID-19 variant identified in South Africa defeats plasma treatment, may reduce vaccine efficacy

gozu

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,314
America
Like I said before. The previous vaccine vetting process is now obsolete as of covid19. We need to dramatically increase our tolerance to risk in the form of experimental deaths.

We had a vaccine in, what? January? Next time, we should start tests much earlier, and risk the lives of many more people (volunteers to begin with the first year) . Better for 1 person to die in a vaccine reaction than 1000 from the virus.

People won't wear masks for years and years on end. They can't even do it weeks on end...

I am not saying I like this solution I'm describing. I'm saying it just sucks less than the alternatives. Just like democracy.
 
Aprikurt

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,775
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MrCheez

MrCheez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
229
Phoenix, AZ
What's really "stunning" is the incompetence of so much of the world's leadership (especially USA) in letting Covid run so rampant, allowing for so many mutations and variations. Although I know this thread is about a South African variant, I'm sure this is the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, I'm a negative nancy at this point. That said, hopefully we'll get more data here that points to a more optimistic scenario. And none of this means anyone should do anything but remain vigilant.
 
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,975
bonesawisready5 said:
I think the OP needs more data on how they came to that conclusion. How many people were surveyed to show a 4x decrease? Did they receive 1 dose or 2 doses of vaccine?

Even if vaccine was only 50% effective against variants, that's still a fighting chance IMO. Obviously we'd want it to be better.
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There's more in the follow-up tweets if you click on the ones in my OP. He scrutinizes the science and summarizes it pretty well for a Twitter format. The vaccine is still definitely helpful, it's just possibly not as helpful as we hoped in this case.

we need more data, but the early data are concerning. We will know more in the next couple of weeks to months, which is why Biden desperately needs to ramp up vaccine rollout in the meantime
 
metalslimer

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Everyone needs to calm down before we have actual data to back this up. Using one twitter post to doom panic is not helpful
 
Relix

Relix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,219
The way I see it this will become cyclical like the flu. Which absolutely fucking sucks.
 
grand

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,899
gozu said:
Like I said before. The previous vaccine vetting process is now obsolete as of covid19. We need to dramatically increase our tolerance to risk in the form of experimental deaths.

We had a vaccine in, what? January? Next time, we should start tests much earlier, and risk the lives of many more people (volunteers to begin with the first year) . Better for 1 person to die in a vaccine reaction than 1000 from the virus.

People won't wear masks for years and years on end. They can't even do it weeks on end...
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Excuse me... What?!

Human experimentation and unsafe testing is not the answer
 
deepFlaw

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
Please read the full article, folks. This is certainly worrying but it's not quite as horrible as it initially sounds.
 
Richiek

Richiek

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Nov 2, 2017
12,063
darkwing

darkwing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,949
I always expected this is going to be like an annual flu vaccine in the future, or just add it into the flu vaccine cocktail for the prevalent strain for that year
 
Zukkoyaki

Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,261
Eric Ding making sensational posts about COVID based on limited, conflicting data? Who could have guessed.
 
gozu

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,314
America
grand said:
Excuse me... What?!

Human experimentation and unsafe testing is not the answer
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Will you at least agree that 1 death of a volunteer is better than 1000 deaths of random people?

Keep in mind I volunteered to test the vaccine before it was known to be safe (they didn't pick me). So I'd be one of those who might die...
 
beansontoast

beansontoast

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 5, 2020
949
This is concerning, but antibodies aren't the only aspect of the acquired immune response, there are also T cells, so people should hold their horses a little.

Relix said:
The way I see it this will become cyclical like the flu. Which absolutely fucking sucks.
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Many people have assumed for ages it would become endemic
 
GreenMamba

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,290
There is a lot of contradictory information and studies currently and this one is not yet peer reviewed.

So maybe hold your damn horses before losing your minds over sensationalistic tweets.
 
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
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Oct 25, 2017
9,975
piratepwnsninja said:
Yeah, the thread title is pretty misleading and needs to be changed, and the info in this tweet needs to be highlighted in the OP.
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That was an older tweet, where it highlighted two specific studies that had conflicting results— I'll reorder them. There's way more info at the follow ups to each tweet. Like I said, it "appears" as more evidence is coming in that it's reducing effectiveness of antibodies and vaccine, with another study (last tweet) showing 4x reduction.
 
Kyrios

Kyrios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,618
The study still needs to be peer reviewed and it directly conflicts with another report. This isn't the first time Eric Tweeted something alarming and then followed up sometime later with a "Welllll, then again".
 

MaffewE

Member
Feb 15, 2018
933
Nothing Loud said:
furthermore, some latest bioxriv manuscripts (not yet peer reviewed) report data that show one of the new variants makes current COVID vaccines 4x less effective

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'4x less effective' is not what this means - at least, not in the context of the '95% efficacy' measures that have previously been reported relating to the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines. It means, in essence, more antibodies were required to neutralize the virus. To quote the lab who actually posted that paper, 'vaccines should be highly effective':



It's worth noting that Dr. Eric Ding, while he likely means well, does have a very sensationalist approach and amplifies the negative news quite a lot. For example, here, he is seemingly surprised and reporting on... his own previous tweet.



'Crap crap crap' indeed.
 
Hero_of_the_Day

Hero_of_the_Day

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
17,327
tomwhite2004 said:
"As Stéphane Bancel, the C.E.O. of Moderna, a maker of one of the covid-19 vaccines, said last week, "We are going to live with this virus, we think, forever."

www.newyorker.com

Can the COVID-19 Vaccine Beat the Proliferation of New Virus Mutations?

Stopping transmission blocks the opportunity for viral mutation. Vaccination is the only means we have of standing in the virus’s way.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
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I know it's still relatively early into this all. But, man, this seems so depressing. Like, it's not shocking that this will be around potentially forever, but I expected things to improve a LOT, and for it to just kinda linger. But, if it is mutating quick enough that by the time a vaccine is even out, it is already potentially ineffective, then what do we do? How do things get better AT ALL?
 

Deleted member 1476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,449
brjuntinaar said:
I'd assume they are drawing that conclusion because reinfection is possible. Here's the story, you can read it yourself and draw your own conclusions:

www.npr.org

Reinfections More Likely With New Coronavirus Variants, Evidence Suggests

The variant in Brazil is causing a surge in Manaus, a city where the virus previously infected huge numbers in the spring of 2020. Researchers are trying to determine why.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
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Yup, that story is everywhere here. Reinfections are happening, and shit does not look good.
 
Aprikurt

Aprikurt

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Oct 29, 2017
18,775
MaffewE said:
'4x less effective' is not what this means - at least, not in the context of the '95% efficacy' measures that have previously been reported relating to the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines. It means, in essence, more antibodies were required to neutralize the virus. To quote the lab who actually posted that paper:



It's worth noting that Dr. Eric Ding, while he likely means well, does have a very sensationalist approach and amplifies the negative news quite a lot. For example, here, he is seemingly surprised and reporting on... his own previous tweet.



'Crap crap crap' indeed.
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Again I cannot get on board with a Doctor who starts his tweets with "Crap..." "STUNNING"
Slash said:
I think this thread should be locked at this point, considering one already exists for this topic and the title is misleading. We don't need to fear monger based on incomplete data.
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We don't need to fearmonger full stop. Same shit was going on in the UK thread the other evening, our collective mental health is in the fucking toilet right now.
 
Bjomesphat

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,819
The only thing these tweets are missing is the red siren emoji. Only until then, will I start listening.
 
LunaSerena

LunaSerena

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,525
This is the ride that never ends.
Guess we'll have to get used to yearly covid vaccines, a la influeza, because at the rate humanity's going I doubt this virus is gonna simply dissapear.
 
grand

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,899
gozu said:
Will you at least agree that 1 death of a volunteer is better than 1000 deaths of random people?

Keep in mind I volunteered to test the vaccine before it was known to be safe (they didn't pick me). So I'd be one of those who might die...
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No. It would be a complete violation of medical ethics. Safe & regulated testing exists to prevent the medical crimes of the past. We're not going back to human experimentation just to speed up a vaccine.

Also the safeguards prior to vaccine testing aren't even the biggest roadblock to vaccine creation & distribution. It's not the time save you think it is
 

Deleted member 5956

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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MaffewE said:
From that same article:
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And what of the next set of mutations beyond these that we will only pick up on once they are widespread, by which time given the current trend of infecion (half of all Covid case have occued since last November and are still rising exponentially!) a new set of undiscovered mutations will have already begun circulating?. This is a game of whack a mole that the virus is now in a very good position to win, it's going to be like the cold or flu, constantly evolving at a rate that makes elimination pratically impossible.
 
Barrel Cannon

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,290
maxxpower said:
Better to be cautious about it even if it doesn't end up affecting vaccine effectiveness. People and governments seem to have given up on containing it just because a vaccine is on the horizon.
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Yup, they all take the lazy approach cause they are afraid of hurting their economy when in reality they end up losing out anyways. Ironic that smaller countries and self contained areas that have non tourist based economies are the ones that are doing much better right now.
 
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

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Oct 25, 2017
9,975
ZeoVGM said:
This thread largely exists to fear monger.
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am I the only one clicking on the tweets to read the data?

I said "appear to weaken vaccine by 4x, eliminates antibodies"

Antibody elimination was reported by the South African CDC

4x elimination was reported by a bioxriv manuscript, which is not yet peer reviewed, but it is concerning, which is why I said "APPEAR"

I work at a covid research institute. Everybody checks bioxriv in the morning for news on covid. It's not a gossip rag, it's the latest info we have, though not a consensus.
 
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