That is a major mischaracterisation, is that a word? Not sure, of what I said. Being someone's second favourite in a primary is absolutely goodwill from people who aren't currently your supporters.
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Reuters: “I thought a woman could win; he [Sanders] disagreed,” Warren, a U.S. senator from Massachusetts, said in a statement.
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He's not surging and her numbers are improving lately after falling for months.Funny that this story starts leaking when Bernie's surging and Warren's dropping.
edit: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e..._democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html just to back it up.
What more do you expect a supporter of a particular candidate to say about a rival candidate? I might be a Bernie supporter, but as a show of respect and good will I'm voting for Warren instead?
The way some of you defend bernie reminds me of a group of certain people defending their red hatted God.
This man can do no wrong. Period.
And also I dont think he said this, at least in this context, but the baffling handwaving and blame pushing is ridiculous.
This man can do no wrong. Period.
And also I dont think he said this, at least in this context, but the baffling handwaving and blame pushing is ridiculous.
This changes nothing about what I said.
The vast majority of Sander supporters showed up for Hilary and the narrative that they didn't is pure bullshit.
Ok seriously how are we still doing this and why is this allowed?
Same. Both Warren and Sanders have had their missteps but they're leagues ahead of any other candidate in my book.
It's very clear that the moment Warren goes on the attack she was going to be brandished a "fake" and "enemy". This just happens to be the situation that starts it off, but pretending that folks wouldn't label her off as "just another liberal" considering this situation is a 2 on a 10 point "attack" scale is just ignoring two threads worth of content.
So yes, many people say "she's my number 2", but the obvious caveat was "if she stays in her place and somehow wins without attacking the person I like"
Yes that's how it work. Ignoring their overall policies leads you to making false blanket statements like Warren is a moderate. By your logic we might as well say everyone to the right of Bernie is a conservative.
Everyone take a drink every time someone says this stupid shit.
Funny that this story starts leaking when Bernie's surging and Warren's dropping.
No foil needed.
This is bullshit. Just meant to divide people, as if a huge chunk of america didn't fell the same way. I've had relatives openly state that they wont vote for a woman.
the voting public, surely isn't the wealthy people cheering.
If people can't deal with 48 hours of "drama" like this, which is really only popping off on internet forums and largely ignored by the media which will be asked about for five minutes in the debate and ignored after the fact, then we're in for a world of shit in terms of discourse until the DNC comes along lol
I'm not a fan of people using "believe women" in this context because it immediately casts Sanders supporters as sexist when I'm sure most aren't. But I'm also not a fan of dismantling the term as "obviously don't believe everything women say" because that's an argument also used to neuter the term when it IS used in a relevant way.
it's so infuriating how she's weaponising "believe women" to smear a political opponent, and there are actual users on this website that are buying into it.
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Daily reminder that exhortations to party "unity" are only ever directed towards the Left from the Right. The entire purpose of which is to gloss over substantive political differences.
Her being a liberal is a fact not an insult. If you won't allow me to call Bernie a socialist, which while correct he is still the closest America has gotten in the mainstream politics and has been so for decades, because it's incorrect then you can't get mad at people calling her a liberal when she is.
While my support is all theoretical here as I can't actually vote as I'm not American, I would absolutely still vote for her if I could and Bernie dropped out even if she were to attack Bernie more as again she's the 2nd best candidate in my eyes and I'm pretty sure most Bernie supporters are the same.
I was specifically referring to the Iowa caucus. The first states are key, and they'll have a big impact on how the overall presidential nomination will poll out.
I do think there's a larger conversation that could take place regarding sexism and who gets the benefit of the doubt when private conversations come to light, but in this context there's no way a good faith discussion on that is going to take place, so co-opting the script to fit your side is pretty unfair.
See, this is the one assertion someone could make about the entire dust-up that I have to disagree with. This whole line of attack has been shoddy. The timing is obvious, the accusation is shaky (Sanders and the WaPo account are more specific about the content of the conversation than anything coming from the Warren side), the response from Warren herself has been confusing, and to top it off, sexism is the most predictable place for an attack to go after antisemitism proved it wasn't going to stick.
It's a transparent enough campaign ploy that it seems to be hurting Warren at least as badly as it's hurting Sanders.
Let me see if I understand:
The same American electorate that -- collectively-- have done nothing to bring accountability to the Government putting kids in cells, neither unilaterally remove a full stop racist and misogynistic President, that has caused so much damage to their country and institutions.
And such comment, -- assuming it's framed in that way -- is somehow worth news, the next "big" fight or to discarding Sanders?
I'm honestly curious, about the Democrats criticizing him: What are you saying?
-That he is personally a general misogynistic person? Even though he has multiple women in charge in his own movement, and multiple evidence of the contrary.
-Or that he does not believe in women being in position on power? Even though he has openly supported females in politics, like this little group known as "The Squad".
-Or that he himself is an uniquely breed of misogynistic person, that specifically abhor the idea of having a Female POTUS? Even though he supported Hillary -- just a cycle ago -- despite how the Primary ended up?
Really, ask yourself what this makes of Bernie. Also, try for once remember how other Primaries have went (like the infamous Obama-Hillary one).
For reference, I DO believe that it's a higher (enfasis) order of magnitude for the Americans to pick a female** POTUS, same than a POC, a non-Cristian, or LGBTQ person. Apologize in advance, if that's somehow controversial.
** I can see the whole country fully embracing, and even going nuts for a Thatcher type POTUS candidate, though.
Also, please consider the following: Either this was leaked by Warren's associates (which would be a low blow, and sort of talk more about their integrity), or by someone craving for them to attack each other.
But by all means, go along with it.
The same American electorate that -- collectively-- have done nothing to bring accountability to the Government putting kids in cells, neither unilaterally remove a full stop racist and misogynistic President, that has caused so much damage to their country and institutions.
And such comment, -- assuming it's framed in that way -- is somehow worth news, the next "big" fight or to discarding Sanders?
I'm honestly curious, about the Democrats criticizing him: What are you saying?
-That he is personally a general misogynistic person? Even though he has multiple women in charge in his own movement, and multiple evidence of the contrary.
-Or that he does not believe in women being in position on power? Even though he has openly supported females in politics, like this little group known as "The Squad".
-Or that he himself is an uniquely breed of misogynistic person, that specifically abhor the idea of having a Female POTUS? Even though he supported Hillary -- just a cycle ago -- despite how the Primary ended up?
Really, ask yourself what this makes of Bernie. Also, try for once remember how other Primaries have went (like the infamous Obama-Hillary one).
For reference, I DO believe that it's a higher (enfasis) order of magnitude for the Americans to pick a female** POTUS, same than a POC, a non-Cristian, or LGBTQ person. Apologize in advance, if that's somehow controversial.
** I can see the whole country fully embracing, and even going nuts for a Thatcher type POTUS candidate, though.
Also, please consider the following: Either this was leaked by Warren's associates (which would be a low blow, and sort of talk more about their integrity), or by someone craving for them to attack each other.
But by all means, go along with it.
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did you read what he said immediately after? In the same thread? Also no shit if you've been a public figure as long as he has, you'll have said the odd dodgy thing. But if the worst thing you've got is this post which is given context by clicking the tweet and scrolling down then I'd say Bernie is alright
No foil needed.
This is bullshit. Just meant to divide people, as if a huge chunk of america literally felt the same way. I've had relatives openly state that they wont vote for a woman.
the voting public, surely isn't the wealthy people cheering.
Which is an awful thing to say, not voting for someone because she's a woman. But if that's how the conversation took place, Warren has wilfully chosen not to provide that very important nuance, thus in turn choosing to portray Bernie as a sexist. Warren is a smart woman, there's no way she didn't anticipated this. That behaviour deserves criticism, especially since they claim to be "friends".
Not everything is bombastic, Christ political discourse really is utter shit. For one I have no idea how anyone thinks that insensitively commenting on the woman penalty is such an outlandishly unbelievable idea for a frank and honest person to doing privately, but on the other hand the perception it's such a grave offence that this story is some huge deal is crazy. It's very much possible Sanders said something about the difficulty electing a woman, a point that everybody is well aware of and has heard a number of times, but then also that this would be an annoying thing to say to a woman - in particular one that just threw her hat in the ring to run for president.
Like calm the hell down people and quit going to emotional extremes giving the media exactly what they want with a fractured progressive wing for Biden to sweep up. You can and should be able to find flaws in anybody you support without going off the rails.
Like calm the hell down people and quit going to emotional extremes giving the media exactly what they want with a fractured progressive wing for Biden to sweep up. You can and should be able to find flaws in anybody you support without going off the rails.
Without a doubt, Bernie & Warren are the only two good people in the serious contenders ring. Neither of them are anywhere near the league of trash like Pete & Biden.
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Seriously. If two interpretations of a private conversation (which is all I see this as, unless someone had a tape recorder on hand) can lead to this level of teeth gnashing, calls of conspiracy, and knives coming out then the primaries and general are going to be a nightmare. The only two things I think should happen are: 1. Warren team finds who leaked these details and gives them their walking papers and 2. Warren and Sander publicly and loudly bury this whole thing.
Or, how about this.
They were having dinner, maybe a ribeye and some wine. They were talking about the elections and viability and Sanders said that he doesn't think a women can win an election, especially after Clinton lost to Trump in an "un-losable" election. This miffed Warren as she chomped on her pork chops and guzzled her Sam Adams in annoyance.
An hour later, on her ride home, she told an aid over text "yea Sanders said a women couldn't win, prick. He's kinda an asshole for saying that to my face"
Casual propagated sexist beliefs that big daddy Trump can only be beaten by another big daddy. Does it negate Sanders words in public? No, not really. Would it show how deeply rooted sexism is in America, something everyone believes? Yea. It's not, as some would put it, "[impossible to] fathom"
Was this used to attack Sanders when Warren's campaign was and is falling flat? Yup. Does that negate the actual aspect of the conversation? Nope.
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Because an actual conversation cant be had about it. This thread is absolutely filled with "nuh uh there is no way he said that this is corporate dems/media trashing him because of FEAR"
This is primary season and shit is going to be said about all of them. Everyone is allowed to be shit on except bernie. Even in the threads about some of the shitty people that his campaign hired, even mentioning that it looked bad for him was a nono.
Further more, I would. Challenge any of you to find a single negative thing I've said about bernie.
Equating defenses of a progressive candidate people like (legitimate or otherwise) with Trump voters is patently absurd. If you want to take a shot at bernie supporters for being overly defensive thats fine but the attempt to paint them akin to Trump supporters is bullshit and should stop.
Your last point about finding anything negative to say about bernie has nothing to do with the posts youve made here.
Just checked cnn.com and -wow - literally three anti-Sanders articles under the main story.
Analysis: 8 words that spell trouble for Bernie Sanders
Revelation of Sanders' 2018 comment sets off panic among progressive strategists
Analysis: The aspect of Sanders' agenda that isn't being debated
Any Era user who denies that MSM has it out for Sanders is out of his or her fucking mind. It shouldn't be controversial to say that they really, really don't want him to win!
Analysis: 8 words that spell trouble for Bernie Sanders
Revelation of Sanders' 2018 comment sets off panic among progressive strategists
Analysis: The aspect of Sanders' agenda that isn't being debated
Any Era user who denies that MSM has it out for Sanders is out of his or her fucking mind. It shouldn't be controversial to say that they really, really don't want him to win!
Going for a low blow makes you a heel, dude, it's rather simple.
What I don't understand is why Warren would stand behind this now. Why wouldn't she say this right after the meeting first occurred? If she wanted to tank his campaign she should have released this before his campaign even began rather than now. In fact here's what the NYT says about the meeting right after it happened.
Do you have any links to these threads? Haven't heard about this
One article is "anti" Sanders, if you even want to call it that.
The second article is talking about what's happening right now in this thread, it's not even anti anything.
The third article is rightfully talking about the fact that Sanders is basically talking about 100 trillion in spending for all his policies and agendas.
So, if the argument is "people are critical of Sanders", then yes, the media is actually doing their job in talking about things that are happening and the words they are saying.
But I guess talking and being critical of Sanders is "anti" Sanders.
It's not about defending Bernie, it's about how what he allegedly said doesn't make any sense alongside his actions. He told her to run in 2016 and then supposedly was like "actually, just kidding, boys rule girls drool"?
If you put up this idiosyncrasy next to Warren's poll numbers, the looming primaries, and a week of scurrilous other Bernie scandals that were dismissed as bullshit (most recently the Slack strategy leak), people are going to respond negatively because they can see how this is being cynically manufactured.
I know you are being facetious, to the point of caricaturing this alleged moment (since we do not actually know what really was said). But at the risk of repeating myself: Are you saying that Sander is sexist himself? or that he believes that the American electorate has enough sexist believes, that it would be harder for a female candidate to win?
The first approach, is making an assumption about the person and his wants. The second, is making an assumption on what his perception is about the electorate (someone that BTW, has actually been in field for years), regardless if he likes it or not.
IF the later, I genuinely wonder how such opinion is even news worthy. Or does anyone believes otherwise?
When you don't understand what you are reading, best leave comments to the other posters on the thread
Openly perpetuating sexist beliefs in front of a friend who clearly took it to heart might mean what you said was in some way hurtful enough to warrant the conversation being remembered and told to multiple people (which it was).
I've already said what "I think". The more interesting aspect is the defense that was going on last night and this morning for Sanders.
Its totally awful, but thats our dumbass country.
In this context, I don't see the stinging Redpill sort of motive behind bernies comments.
I prefer Warren over Bernie, for the record.
I do feel like the media is working in self defense mode, trying to promote infighting. As if we live in a country that didn't go fascist after electing a black man. I can only imagine what the push back will be once it elects a woman. Thats why I feel its not genuine. More talk about this, takes it away from the problems and the promoted solutions from both. Our country is broken as hell socially. Women will have a very hard time winning an electoral college, thats even without a russian meddled election.
Women still aren't paid equally, and are in the process of having their rights taken away.
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