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Windrunner

Sly
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
I think there is enough interest in this TV to justify a thread specifically for this:

BFI off: 9ms
BFI on (high): 26ms

With it on high it adds an extra frame of lag but is still lower than most TVs on the market. I would have liked to have known what the lag is like with it on low or medium (or even on auto) but I imagine those figures would fall somewhere in between.

LG CX OLED: Lag Tests and OSSC Compatibility

 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,410
BFI also prevents use of VRR on this set, right?

Not that it makes a huge difference if your input is a retro console upscaler, but it seems like there is still a lot of room for improvement in the implementation of the tech on future TVs.
 

Schlomo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,133
How does Low/Medium work anyway? Does it shorten the length of each inserted black frame?

Low and Medium look about the same to me - both produce sharp double contours, and I think the blur with BFI Off is preferable to that. High is the only one that really helps with sharpness in motion.
 

Inti

Member
Nov 20, 2017
303
I have a CX and I don't remember seeing those setting. Is this the motions smoothness setting? Where is this BFI setting?
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,261
is BFI the same thing as "clear action" i see on other tvs?

Isn't most "clear action" interpolation? That's not what this is doing. It's not making up frames of data to increase the motion resolution. It's just inserting black frames between images so it increases motion resolution. Obvious downside, aside from lag, is that because the image isn't held the entire time, the brightness dims.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,232
I like it for some SDR movie content. Gives me a motion image similar to my old Plasma TV.

I was interested in the setting for this as well, slow establishing pans during both HDR and SDR can be murder on my eyeballs, but while Cinema Clear looks alright for anime, it still looks off for live action stuff. Interested in impressions for this
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,677
The Milky Way
BFI doesn't support VRR which is a bit pants. And motion blur at 120hz is already massively reduced over 60hz even without BFI, so I'd rather take the brighter imager and lower latency at that point.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,232
BFI doesn't support VRR which is a bit pants. And motion blur at 120hz is already massively reduced over 60hz even without BFI, so I'd rather take the brighter imager and lower latency at that point.

I dont think you would want BFI over 60fps, no? I thought it was usually reserved for stuff lower than half the screen's refresh rate
 

BriGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,275
For 2D side-scrolling games, the high setting really cleans up the motion blur. It's as close to a CRT as I've seen on a modern television so far, although it does make the picture darker.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,023
Low isn't really worth it and High is too dark. If you're going to use BFI, Medium or Auto are the only ones I would consider.
Neither are suitable for retro gaming, which is locked to 60 FPS.

How does Low/Medium work anyway? Does it shorten the length of each inserted black frame?

Low and Medium look about the same to me - both produce sharp double contours, and I think the blur with BFI Off is preferable to that. High is the only one that really helps with sharpness in motion.
Unfortunately the CX has very limited options for BFI.
With its 120Hz BFI support, it should be able to offer 60Hz BFI with three levels of persistence.
Instead, the Auto/Low/Medium settings run at 120Hz, and only the High setting runs at 60Hz.

The display should be capable of the following combinations with a 60Hz source, where 1 is the source frame, and 0 is a black frame.
  • 1111 - 60Hz, no BFI. 16.67ms persistence, full brightness, no flicker. Lots of motion blur.
  • 1110 - 60Hz 1/4 BFI. 12.5ms persistence, 3/4 brightness, high flicker. Slightly reduced motion blur, smooth motion.
  • 1100 - 60Hz 1/2 BFI. 8.33ms persistence, 1/2 brightness, high flicker. Moderately reduced motion blur, smoother motion.
  • 1000 - 60Hz 3/4 BFI. 4.17ms persistence, 1/4 brightness, high flicker. Highly reduced motion blur, very smooth motion.
  • 1010 - 120Hz 1/2 BFI. 8.33ms persistence, 1/2 brightness, moderate flicker. Moderately reduced motion blur, double-images/judder in motion.
The highlighted options are the only ones available on the CX.
Without having one of these displays myself, I couldn't tell you what it's doing to differentiate Low/Medium BFI; only that it's running both at 120Hz like the last example.
The C9's BFI option is equivalent to 1/2 BFI rather than 3/4 - so it's brighter at 60Hz, but has less-clear/smooth motion than the CX.

Unfortunately BFI modes on most modern displays really highlight just how good CRTs were.
CRTs were able to pull off <1ms persistence while still remaining at roughly 100 nits brightness, which is the spec for SDR.
No other display using BFI that has options for sub-1ms persistence is anywhere close to reaching 100 nits brightness.

BFI doesn't support VRR which is a bit pants. And motion blur at 120hz is already massively reduced over 60hz even without BFI, so I'd rather take the brighter imager and lower latency at that point.
At 120Hz the brightness only drops by 1/2 rather than 3/4 to achieve the same 4.17ms persistence, so it's far more usable.
VRR is fundamentally incompatible with most BFI implementations, and there are a whole lot of technical challenges that would have to be overcome to make it work. I know ASUS have their ELMB-Sync monitors, but there's a reason that does not work well.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,661
Never understood the benefits of it :(
It's so you can achieve CRT-like motion. Something like the below

without BFI:
CROPPED_60Hz-690x230.jpg


with BFI:
CROPPED_LightBoost50-690x230.jpg
 

Merino

Member
Oct 26, 2017
312
Followed the hype and had my 55" CX delivered yesterday. Had been using a 10 year old Philips 32" HD tv and the jump up has been quite incredible.
Nice benefit of this tv is that it's popularity makes finding information about it online very easily.

Unfortunately did not get my hands on a PS5 preorder so still anxiously waiting to experience that combination.
Did get a Series S as a secondary game pass console which will have to function as my primary system for now.
Tetris Effect on this tv has been quite an amazing experience.