Retirement-Era |OT| How to Invest For Retirement

Daitokuji · Mar 4, 2018

With the Vanguard target funds, are there any restrictions on withdrawals? I have some money in Wealthfront but it has a 0.25% annual fee and if Vanguard is basically the same thing then why pay the 0.25%?

The makeup of the fund is actually quiet different than in Wealthfront.

Vanguard 2045 fund is: 55% domestic stocks, 35% foreign stocks, 10% bonds.
Wealthfront is: 23% domestic stocks, 19% foreign stocks, 17% emerging market stocks, 15% dividend growth stocks, 15% real estate, 5% corporate bonds, 6% emerging market bonds.

Prax · Mar 5, 2018

Finally managed to transfer one of my TFSAs over to Questrade so I can finally start buying some lower cost ETF--well, mostly eyeing VGRO. I'm still a newbie with all of this so I will aim for more automated over anything else. Asking for a 1k minimum always seems like a barrier to getting started there.

I still have a significant amount in a roboadvisor for the same reason. Don't wanna think about rebalancing and I like that I can make automated weekly payments instead of deciding to transfer larger chunks of money at a time (relying on a nervous or lazy investor to pull the trigger instead of trying to time the market is costly, I guess!).

tokkun · Mar 5, 2018

Daitokuji said:
With the Vanguard target funds, are there any restrictions on withdrawals? I have some money in Wealthfront but it has a 0.25% annual fee and if Vanguard is basically the same thing then why pay the 0.25%?

The makeup of the fund is actually quiet different than in Wealthfront.

Vanguard 2045 fund is: 55% domestic stocks, 35% foreign stocks, 10% bonds.
Wealthfront is: 23% domestic stocks, 19% foreign stocks, 17% emerging market stocks, 15% dividend growth stocks, 15% real estate, 5% corporate bonds, 6% emerging market bonds.

There are some limits on the mutual fund options to prevent frequent trading:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Frequent_trading_policy#Vanguard.27s_frequent_trading_policy

For retirement investing, it doesn't really matter; this is more of an issue for people who want to do day trading. If you really care, you can use the ETF versions of the funds instead. They have no trading limits.

That Wealthfront allocation is not so dramatically different from Target 2045.

35% international stock vs 36% international stock (just with a tilt toward EM)
10% bonds vs 11% bonds

The biggest difference is the 15% REIT allocation in the Wealthfront portfolio.

ZackieChan · Mar 6, 2018

I see Schwab just added some new index mutual funds: https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/newindexfunds.html

Worth getting into those instead of Vanguard?

Chaosblade · Mar 8, 2018

ZackieChan said:
I see Schwab just added some new index mutual funds: https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/newindexfunds.html

Worth getting into those instead of Vanguard?

I think some people here use Schwab. As long as there aren't any extra account fees it's a good alternative.

ZackieChan · Mar 8, 2018

Chaosblade said:
I think some people here use Schwab. As long as there aren't any extra account fees it's a good alternative.

I have all my investments with them. Just wanted to see what the consensus is!

tokkun · Mar 8, 2018

ZackieChan said:
I see Schwab just added some new index mutual funds: https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/newindexfunds.html

Worth getting into those instead of Vanguard?

My opinion on this has always been to stick with Vanguard, even if others are offering funds that are a few basis points lower.

I trust Vanguard to keep their fees low for the long run, both because of their track record and because of their ownership structure. I don't have the same level of trust in Fidelity, Schwab, etc. It's especially important if we are talking about a taxable account, since you may not be able to easily switch funds if they decide to jack up the fees.

Smiley90 · Mar 8, 2018

I just got my tax documents from a borrow-to-invest account I have and apparently one of the mutual funds in it shifted everything to a new fund.

Which means I get a random arbitrarily large capital gain to tax this year on it lol. I guess better now than in future, higher-tax-bracket years?

Nista · Mar 8, 2018

With the nonsense Trump is pulling lately I'm trying to put off my IRA deposit as long as possible for this year. Hopefully after the trade wars tank everything temporarily. Sigh.

tokkun · Mar 9, 2018

Nista said:
With the nonsense Trump is pulling lately I'm trying to put off my IRA deposit as long as possible for this year. Hopefully after the trade wars tank everything temporarily. Sigh.

People predicted huge drops when Trump was elected as well. Instead we have had a huge market run up. Trying to time the market like this based on current events is a fool's errand.

In any case, even if you feel too skittish about stocks, that is not an argument against making an IRA contribution. You could just as easily put the money in bonds or a stable value fund in your IRA.

Prax · Mar 9, 2018

My Questrade account finally got the funds through today but alas, I found out only after the market started running up again. My heart weeps for wishing I could time things at all. Please be good to me, VGRO.

I have about 300 bucks left over. Should I be using the rest up on something else specifically, more VGRO, or does Questrade require me to keep some cash around or what? This is the first time I have ever bought any ETFs, on any online brokerage so advice or wellwishes appreciated lol.

TheTrinity · Mar 10, 2018

I mean I guess I'm wondering why you have $300 left over? Might as well just use it all up.
Just keep an eye on that inactivity fee if you have under $5,000 invested at Questrade (http://www.questrade.com/pricing/self-directed-investing/fees)

Prax · Mar 10, 2018

Wormdundee said:
I mean I guess I'm wondering why you have $300 left over? Might as well just use it all up.
Just keep an eye on that inactivity fee if you have under $5,000 invested at Questrade (http://www.questrade.com/pricing/self-directed-investing/fees)

because i didn't wanna do math, wormdude!! and after i had leftovers, i thought questrade needed some kinda minimum in the account in case of fees and then i just logged out.

thanks for the headsup about the inactivity fee! i didn't know about it and i also don't have enough loose money to not get dinged. :D
will have to think about how to finagle this.

Mr.Mike · Mar 10, 2018

As of April 1st, 2015, an inactivity fee of $24.95 per quarter is charged to clients with under CAD $5,000 in combined total equity for any quarter in which the client does not complete one commissionable trade. Commissionable trades include free trades or trades made using commission rebates. Combined equity includes all accounts owned by a client, including joint accounts. Clients are exempt if they are 25 years of age or under, or are subscribed to a data package. They are also exempt if they sign up for our myFamily program, link the assets in their account with the assets in other clients' accounts, and together they have at least CAD $5,000 in assets. Charitable organizations are also exempt. If the client trades in the quarter after incurring an inactivity fee, the trades will be commission-free up to $24.95, provided the account remains open at the end of the following quarter. For example, if a client incurs an inactivity fee on July 1st, any trades made in July, August or September will be commission-free up to $24.95.

Buying ETFs is free, so just buying at least 1 unit every quarter is enough. Or if your partner also has accounts at Questrade it seems you can use that to avoid the inactivity fees. It doesn't seem like the myFamily program gives your family any control over your account but I'd double check that.

EDIT: From a form

No matter what types of accounts you include in your group, you still retain your own account and control of your individual investments.

Smiley90 · Mar 10, 2018

You can literally partner with any other Questrade member to avoid the inactivity / less than 5k total invested fee. Eg I'll be your partner if you need one Prax.

The partner doesn't see or get anything from your account.

Also, no reason for you to keep cash around. Buying ETFs is always free and the fees you pay on sales get deducted from the money you make in a sale, so no need either way. Just buy up whatever you can with leftovers!

Prax · Mar 10, 2018

Mr.Mike said:
Buying ETFs is free, so just buying at least 1 unit every quarter is enough. Or if your partner also has accounts at Questrade it seems you can use that to avoid the inactivity fees. It doesn't seem like the myFamily program gives your family any control over your account but I'd double check that.

EDIT: From a form

I THINK I can swing one trade per quarter! So every 3 months just buy VGRO with leftover money? (Or I dunno.. Shopify stock lol).

Smiley90 · Mar 10, 2018

Prax said:
I THINK I can swing one trade per quarter! So every 3 months just buy VGRO with leftover money? (Or I dunno.. Shopify stock lol).

I believe it has to be one commission's le trade, so buying commission-free ETFs might not count. Not 100% sure though.

Mr.Mike · Mar 10, 2018

Smiley90 said:
I believe it has to be one commission's le trade, so buying commission-free ETFs might not count. Not 100% sure though.

Commissionable trades include free trades or trades made using commission rebates

Sounds like the ETF purchases should count?

Prax · Mar 11, 2018

Mr.Mike said:
Sounds like the ETF purchases should count?

Yeah. That's what it sound like to me.
What is a "non commissionable" trade then? lol

I actually would have money to avoid all this had my condo not recently levied a special assessment fee of 12.5k due in a couple of months for major repairs. Pretty much my entire emergency fund down the drain..

Smiley90 · Mar 11, 2018

Mr.Mike said:
Sounds like the ETF purchases should count?

Then there you go! All is well.

eclipze · Mar 11, 2018

I have an Inherited Traditional IRA and a Roth IRA I'd like to move from the current custodian (Prudential) over to Vandguard. I can do this with no fees or rollovers if I have a Traditional and Roth setup with vanguard and do a 1:1 transfer for each, correct? I'm just looking to get out of the crappy funds I'm in right now without having to pay capital gains. I know with my Inherited IRA, I have to continue making distributions until it's empty at a certain age, so what is the process for that? Am I going to have to pay taxes on that if I move it to a Traditional with Vanguard?

eclipze · Mar 11, 2018

Also, at work, I have a fully vested 401k that they don't match but put in a percentage (avg 3-5%) of my gross yearly salary in every year as "profit sharing" regardless if I contribute or not. Should I stop contributing to it and use that money to put into a different tax advantaged account? I'm thinking about just going 100% into VINIX and VSIAX and then just using Vanguard, but will then lose the 18k tax deferment. Here are the investment options:

Photon · Mar 12, 2018

eclipze said:
I have an Inherited Traditional IRA and a Roth IRA I'd like to move from the current custodian (Prudential) over to Vandguard. I can do this with no fees or rollovers if I have a Traditional and Roth setup with vanguard and do a 1:1 transfer for each, correct? I'm just looking to get out of the crappy funds I'm in right now without having to pay capital gains. I know with my Inherited IRA, I have to continue making distributions until it's empty at a certain age, so what is the process for that? Am I going to have to pay taxes on that if I move it to a Traditional with Vanguard?

I just did the same thing last year moving my Inherited IRAs from crappy fund custodians and consolidating them with Vanguard. It's free and relatively easy, and as long as your money stays in an IRA you can buy and sell funds all you want without paying taxes. The one caveat is that you can't open inherited IRAs online so you have to send in the application by mail. (https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/0016t.pdf) When you fill out the application you'll also fill out the In-Kind Transfer form which will allow you to open a new IRA and transfer the funds over at the same time. You don't have to contact your current custodian, Vanguard will handle it for you.

One thing to keep in mind is that you can only combine Inherited IRAs with Inherited IRAs of the same type from the same person. So you won't be able to combine them with non-inherited IRAs if you already have any at Vanguard.

As for taking the required minimum distributions from your inherited IRAs, you have to start taking them by December 31st of the year after the person died. I took my first RMD last year by calling Vanguard and having them help me through it. The amount you take is based on the value of the IRA on December 31 of the previous year, so I had to give that info to the rep so he could calculate the correct amount. Once everything is moved over it gets easier because they'll know how much you had at the end of the year. You can set up their automatic RMD service online, and pick a date to have it distributed every year. I setup a taxable brokerage account to put my RMDs in, but you could send it to your bank account if you prefer.

The only time you'll pay taxes is when you get a distribution from your Traditional IRA. The amount gets added to your regular income and taxed at your income tax rate, not capital gains. When you take your RMD you can specify a percentage to withhold for taxes so you don't get surprised at tax filing time.

feline fury · Mar 15, 2018

So on my Vanguard account, I have an option of contributing to my 401k or Roth - the $18.5k annual limit applies to the sum of these accounts, correct? Any advice on what to invest in if I hit that limit? Don't say BitCoin lol.

Linkura · Mar 15, 2018

feline fury said:
So on my Vanguard account, I have an option of contributing to my 401k or Roth - the $18.5k annual limit applies to the sum of these accounts, correct? Any advice on what to invest in if I hit that limit? Don't say BitCoin lol.

Nope. It's a separate limit.

tokkun · Mar 16, 2018

feline fury said:
Any advice on what to invest in if I hit that limit? Don't say BitCoin lol.

I just invest in the same type of stuff in a taxable account, e.g. broadly diversified low cost index funds.

Unlike my tax advantaged account, where I only use Vanguard Target Date, I hold separate index funds (Total US, Total International) in my taxable account. That's because you may occasionally want to exchange funds in a taxable account for tax loss harvesting purposes when a recession occurs.

TheTrinity · Mar 16, 2018

The CRA's website is such a pain in the ass for determining what your contribution room is in your RRSP. Since you're not forced to deduct all your contributions, deductions can be carried over year to year indefinitely, the same as any unused contribution room. But! The website makes no distinction between CONTRIBUTION ROOM and DEDUCTION LIMIT. My (free) tax person had indications in her software that I had over-contributed so then I started doubting myself and had to go double check. Using rounded numbers, CRA says my 2017 deduction limit is $25,000. Does that mean I could have contributed $25,000 in 2017? No, of course it doesn't. I had to go back to a completely different page to see that I had $5,700 deduction limit carried over from previous years which means that the amount I could contribute would be (25000 - 5700) = $19,300.

I still wasn't sure, so I re-calculated starting from my first RRSP contributions. And yeah, it's fine, I contributed $2.00 less than the contribution limit.

But I swear, they're just trying to fuck with us so they can get our over-contribution penalty.

Husker86 · Mar 16, 2018

Linkura said:
Nope. It's a separate limit.

Just to clarify, the 18.5k limit is separate for Roth 401k or Trad 401k from the same company? That isn't what I thought.

tokkun · Mar 16, 2018

Husker86 said:
Just to clarify, the 18.5k limit is separate for Roth 401k or Trad 401k from the same company? That isn't what I thought.

There is a single limit for 401K, regardless of Roth or Traditional.
There is a separate, single limit for IRA, regardless of Roth or Traditional.

The first response likely assumed that "Roth" meant Roth IRA, not Roth 401K.

Linkura · Mar 16, 2018

tokkun said:
There is a single limit for 401K, regardless of Roth or Traditional.
There is a separate, single limit for IRA, regardless of Roth or Traditional.

The first response likely assumed that "Roth" meant Roth IRA, not Roth 401K.

Yeah, I'm going to assume when someone just says "Roth" they mean an IRA. If it's a Roth 401k, then it is included in the 401k limit.

Husker86 · Mar 16, 2018

Linkura said:
Yeah, I'm going to assume when someone just says "Roth" they mean an IRA. If it's a Roth 401k, then it is included in the 401k limit.

Yeah, I figured that's what you were assuming, but wanted to make sure to bring it back up since I originally thought feline was just referring to 401k types.

hockeypuck · Mar 16, 2018

Kudos to all for not spelling "Roth" in all caps.

Photon · Mar 16, 2018

When does it make sense to hire a financial advisor? What can they do for me that isn't already covered by the OP or could be answered by you guys?

Zip · Mar 16, 2018

What's a good high dividend fund? Have some extra cash that I'd like to set up and have sit as generating passive income.

FliX · Mar 17, 2018

Photon said:
When does it make sense to hire a financial advisor? What can they do for me that isn't already covered by the OP or could be answered by you guys?

Unless you have some strange personal set up I would not bother.

TheTrinity · Mar 17, 2018

Photon said:
When does it make sense to hire a financial advisor? What can they do for me that isn't already covered by the OP or could be answered by you guys?

I think maybe if someone were running their own business, or have inherited some weird shit? Other than that, I think the 'rules' are the same for pretty much everyone from minimum wage to several hundred thousand per year.
I guess also if you're some C-suite exec making multiple millions per year in majority non-cash or something.

feline fury · Mar 17, 2018

tokkun said:
There is a single limit for 401K, regardless of Roth or Traditional.
There is a separate, single limit for IRA, regardless of Roth or Traditional.

The first response likely assumed that "Roth" meant Roth IRA, not Roth 401K.

Linkura said:
Yeah, I'm going to assume when someone just says "Roth" they mean an IRA. If it's a Roth 401k, then it is included in the 401k limit.

Husker86 said:
Yeah, I figured that's what you were assuming, but wanted to make sure to bring it back up since I originally thought feline was just referring to 401k types.

On my Vanguard, it's split between employee account and Roth account. The employee portion is before taxes and the Roth part is after tax deductions. Does after tax automatically mean it's a Roth IRA? Right now, I'm splitting my contributions 50/50 between those portions but I'm not sure if that's the most optimal spread.

Linkura · Mar 17, 2018

feline fury said:
On my Vanguard, it's split between employee account and Roth account. The employee portion is before taxes and the Roth part is after tax deductions. Does after tax automatically mean it's a Roth IRA? Right now, I'm splitting my contributions 50/50 between those portions but I'm not sure if that's the most optimal spread.

No, it means it's after-tax.

tokkun · Mar 17, 2018

feline fury said:
On my Vanguard, it's split between employee account and Roth account. The employee portion is before taxes and the Roth part is after tax deductions. Does after tax automatically mean it's a Roth IRA? Right now, I'm splitting my contributions 50/50 between those portions but I'm not sure if that's the most optimal spread.

I'm not sure what you mean. In my account, the Roth IRA account clearly says "Roth IRA Brokerage". Are you talking about the "Contributions" section within the employer plan? Maybe you can provide a screenshot with any sensitive information removed.

In my account, Roth contributions are labeled as "Roth 401K"; "After Tax" refers to non-Roth after tax contributions:

Deleted member 1852 · Mar 17, 2018

Chaosblade said:
I think some people here use Schwab. As long as there aren't any extra account fees it's a good alternative.

I've had Schwab as my broker for many years now. I'm happy enough with them that I've never really considered moving to free ones like Robinhood. I'm not going to kill myself over $7.95 trades versus free ones, especially since I don't trade on margin or use options. Schwab's desktop platform is nice and I like their phone app so I've stuck with them.

They have mutual funds which promise lower costs than Vanguard with no additional fees. Seems nice if you're someone who is all-in on mutual funds on your brokerage account. I keep the mutual funds in my 401k, my brokerage account is mostly dedicated to individual securities.

demosthenes · Mar 20, 2018

Wormdundee said:
I think maybe if someone were running their own business, or have inherited some weird shit? Other than that, I think the 'rules' are the same for pretty much everyone from minimum wage to several hundred thousand per year.
I guess also if you're some C-suite exec making multiple millions per year in majority non-cash or something.

Add another, you're a 1099 employee who's paid 250k a year and you want to make a SEP contribution for your taxes and you need estimates to setup. Well actually this is more likely a tax adviser than a financial adviser but the idea is the same. As complexity increases you need a more specialized approach. Ask your questions here and we will help you out the best we can or tell you to seek outside help. I'm a CPA, a bunch of others are very well versed in this subject and probably in financial positions themselves.

I think the 'spirit' of this thread is the same. Handling retirement planning in a common sense not crazy complex approach.

MaizeRage25 · Mar 20, 2018

JEKKI said:
ok someone please help me understand this...

I posted in here before, basically my story was I want a house but can't afford a down payment, but I also have a number of odd IRA accounts from old employer 401Ks, so I wanted to consolidate them all and find a way to use that sum to get me a house.

I spoke with a financial adviser and he said the only way to do this is to roll them all up into your current employer's 401K account. The bad thing about this is that the investment isnt as strong, I'll be missing out on a lot of potential earning if I left them in their own IRA. But the good thing is I can borrow from my 401K which is great because it'll give me the money I need.

so far so cool... but my problem I'm having now is what does this mean:

this is from my current 401K's account page that gives you the option to borrow.

How the hell does a 6-year $30K loan reduce my retirement balance by over $500K?!?! that makes no sense, and I'm genuinely angry reading something like this.

am I not borrowing from myself? am I not paying myself back? at this point, wouldnt it just be wiser to not take the loan out as the lower down payment / extra mortgage payment would be less than a $500K loss?

Why don't you just wait and save money for the down-payment? How long will would you estimate that it will take based on your current savings rate?

Borrowing from your 401k just seems like a real bad idea to me.

disillusion386 · Mar 20, 2018

I set up my Roth IRA account last year, but since I didn't have enough to invest in the minimum for Vanguard investor shares, I bought the equivalent ETFs instead. Now that I do have enough after maxing out the contribution limit, do I just sell those ETFs and buy the investor shares? I'm keeping it simple and looking into the VGTSX and VTSMX.

Y2Kev · Mar 21, 2018

I have the ability to start a new 3 fund portfolio with 30K. I'm 29. How would you allocate?

Keep in mind I don't know that I need international exposure considering all US companies sell internationally, but let me know what you think. Should I do 80/20 total stock / total bond?

FliX · Mar 21, 2018

Y2Kev said:
I have the ability to start a new 3 fund portfolio with 30K. I'm 29. How would you allocate?

Keep in mind I don't know that I need international exposure considering all US companies sell internationally, but let me know what you think. Should I do 80/20 total stock / total bond?

100 % stock.
What company are you with? Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab?

These days I would just put 100% into an MSCI world ETF.

PopcornMegaphone · Mar 21, 2018

Y2Kev said:
I have the ability to start a new 3 fund portfolio with 30K. I'm 29. How would you allocate?

Keep in mind I don't know that I need international exposure considering all US companies sell internationally, but let me know what you think. Should I do 80/20 total stock / total bond?

Personally, I wouldn't do bonds until 40. I'm 70/30 on the domestic/international side. I've noticed most target retirement funds are closer to 65/35 or 60/40. At a minimum I'd do 20% international of your equity allocation.

Regarding the "big US companies do a lot of business overseas so I'm basically diversified in international" comment. A Vanguard white paper shows that the correlation isn't as high as most people imagine (figure 2). Additionally, you'll be missing out on industry weighting:

Lastly, a portfolio made up solely of U.S. firms, which are more concentrated in biotechnology, computer equipment, information technology and IT services, and software, would be underweighted in "old world" industries such as electrical equipment, durable household goods, and automobiles. In other words, an all-U.S. portfolio would lose not just investment opportunities but also the diversification benefits of a portfolio that's more evenly distributed across industries.

Y2Kev · Mar 21, 2018

FliXFantatier said:
100 % stock.
What company are you with? Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab?

These days I would just put 100% into an MSCI world ETF.

Vanguard.

PopcornMegaphone said:
Personally, I wouldn't do bonds until 40. I'm 70/30 on the domestic/international side. I've noticed most target retirement funds are closer to 65/35 or 60/40. At a minimum I'd do 20% international of your equity allocation.

Regarding the "big US companies do a lot of business overseas so I'm basically diversified in international" comment. A Vanguard white paper shows that the correlation isn't as high as most people imagine (figure 2). Additionally, you'll be missing out on industry weighting:

OK, 70/30 makes sense to me. I also don't really want interest payments into a taxable account if possible. So no bonds?

PopcornMegaphone · Mar 21, 2018

Y2Kev said:
Vanguard.

OK, 70/30 makes sense to me. I also don't really want interest payments into a taxable account if possible. So no bonds?

Investing is intensely personal and there isn't a one size fits all solution. At your age I'd only do bonds if you think you'll freak out if there's a significant downward market correction. Otherwise, I don't think bonds are worth it until you get closer to retirement. FWIW, Vanguard's target 2055 retirement fund has around 10% bonds.

From a tax efficiency perspective it's better to have bonds in a tax deferred account like a 401k or Roth Ira. For example, I have most of my international holdings in my taxable account and my bonds in my 401k. FYI - I'm 41 so I've started buying bonds.

edit - I assume you're investing for retirement and have a buy and hold approach.

Y2Kev · Mar 21, 2018

This is not specifically a retirement account, but I would buy and hold. I contribute to a company 401K up to the match (6%) and then max out an IRA. I have a 6 month emergency fund and then have a small taxable account I keep on the side. I have 30k and want to start a "new" taxable account (I had to use most of the taxable account last year to buy a condo).

The old taxable account I think was a bit messy. Too many funds. So I want to simplify to 3 with Vanguard or less. So I was thinking maybe 80/20 or something US/international.

demosthenes · Mar 21, 2018

Y2Kev said:
This is not specifically a retirement account, but I would buy and hold. I contribute to a company 401K up to the match (6%) and then max out an IRA. I have a 6 month emergency fund and then have a small taxable account I keep on the side. I have 30k and want to start a "new" taxable account (I had to use most of the taxable account last year to buy a condo).

The old taxable account I think was a bit messy. Too many funds. So I want to simplify to 3 with Vanguard or less. So I was thinking maybe 80/20 or something US/international.

At work and don't have my login but one that I usually recommend is VTSAX. I would have this be one of the 3.

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