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feline fury

Member
Dec 8, 2017
1,538
I used it as a chance to do some tax loss harvesting in my taxable account. For retirement investors with a long investment horizon remaining, the market dips are more of an opportunity than a hazard.

Of course if this leads to a full-on recession, that will be a difference story.
Can you explain exactly how tax loss harvesting works and how it's beneficial? I imagine it means locking in losses for the year to lower your taxable income but a loss is still a loss to your investments if you sell, right?

I don't have any taxable accounts right now but I'm considering jumping into the deep end of the pool now that the 401k and Roth are maxed out.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,399
Can you explain exactly how tax loss harvesting works and how it's beneficial?

You realize a capital loss by selling an asset at a lower price that you paid for it. You then purchase the same amount of similar, but not identical assets. Tax loss harvesting laws prevent you from rebuying the exact same stock, but with the plethora of ETFs, it is not hard to find something pretty similar that is not exactly the same. For instance, sell Total US Stock Market, then buy a combo of S&P 500 and Russell 2000. This way you end up with roughly the same investments you had before, but you have realized the capital loss. It is important that you actually do the repurchase part; if you sell and keep your money in cash, then you risk missing out if stocks go up in value after you sell.

You can use the capital loss to offset capital gains and make a limited income deduction each year. You can carry over unused losses to following years. However, although you have the same investment mix as before, you now have a lower cost basis on the new assets. This means that you will eventually have to pay additional capital gains tax on an amount equal to the capital loss you realized. However you don't have to pay this extra tax until you sell the new assets, which could be a long time in the future.

So where is the benefit? It comes in two ways:
1. Presumably when you sell your replacement funds later, you will do it after 1 year, so you pay long-term capital gains tax on it. However, your capital loss can be used to offset short-term capital gains tax and normal income. For most people, the long-term capital gains tax rate is much lower than short-term capital gains and normal income.
2. You end up paying the tax later. This is advantageous because of the time-value of money. $1 today is worth more than $1 is worth 20 years from now.

I imagine it means locking in losses for the year to lower your taxable income but a loss is still a loss to your investments if you sell, right?

If you have a realized loss, you get the tax benefits. If you have an unrealized loss, you don't. Either way, your stocks have the same value.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
You realize a capital loss by selling an asset at a lower price that you paid for it. You then purchase the same amount of similar, but not identical assets. Tax loss harvesting laws prevent you from rebuying the exact same stock, but with the plethora of ETFs, it is not hard to find something pretty similar that is not exactly the same. For instance, sell Total US Stock Market, then buy a combo of S&P 500 and Russell 2000. This way you end up with roughly the same investments you had before, but you have realized the capital loss. It is important that you actually do the repurchase part; if you sell and keep your money in cash, then you risk missing out if stocks go up in value after you sell.

You can use the capital loss to offset capital gains and make a limited income deduction each year. You can carry over unused losses to following years. However, although you have the same investment mix as before, you now have a lower cost basis on the new assets. This means that you will eventually have to pay additional capital gains tax on an amount equal to the capital loss you realized. However you don't have to pay this extra tax until you sell the new assets, which could be a long time in the future.

So where is the benefit? It comes in two ways:
1. Presumably when you sell your replacement funds later, you will do it after 1 year, so you pay long-term capital gains tax on it. However, your capital loss can be used to offset short-term capital gains tax and normal income. For most people, the long-term capital gains tax rate is much lower than short-term capital gains and normal income.
2. You end up paying the tax later. This is advantageous because of the time-value of money. $1 today is worth more than $1 is worth 20 years from now.



If you have a realized loss, you get the tax benefits. If you have an unrealized loss, you don't. Either way, your stocks have the same value.
How do you actually book keep this though. That is what I cannot wrap my head around. I mean I have a bunch of ETFs that I buy on a semi regular basis. There is no immediate way for me to tell what part of what ETF is currently down in relation to when I bought it. And if I did, how do I calculate/book keep all this not just for myself but for the IRS to accept?
 

feline fury

Member
Dec 8, 2017
1,538
You realize a capital loss by selling an asset at a lower price that you paid for it. You then purchase the same amount of similar, but not identical assets. Tax loss harvesting laws prevent you from rebuying the exact same stock, but with the plethora of ETFs, it is not hard to find something pretty similar that is not exactly the same. For instance, sell Total US Stock Market, then buy a combo of S&P 500 and Russell 2000. This way you end up with roughly the same investments you had before, but you have realized the capital loss. It is important that you actually do the repurchase part; if you sell and keep your money in cash, then you risk missing out if stocks go up in value after you sell.

You can use the capital loss to offset capital gains and make a limited income deduction each year. You can carry over unused losses to following years. However, although you have the same investment mix as before, you now have a lower cost basis on the new assets. This means that you will eventually have to pay additional capital gains tax on an amount equal to the capital loss you realized. However you don't have to pay this extra tax until you sell the new assets, which could be a long time in the future.

So where is the benefit? It comes in two ways:
1. Presumably when you sell your replacement funds later, you will do it after 1 year, so you pay long-term capital gains tax on it. However, your capital loss can be used to offset short-term capital gains tax and normal income. For most people, the long-term capital gains tax rate is much lower than short-term capital gains and normal income.
2. You end up paying the tax later. This is advantageous because of the time-value of money. $1 today is worth more than $1 is worth 20 years from now.



If you have a realized loss, you get the tax benefits. If you have an unrealized loss, you don't. Either way, your stocks have the same value.
Ah thanks, repurchasing similar stocks afterwards makes sense and that's what I was missing.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,399
How do you actually book keep this though. That is what I cannot wrap my head around. I mean I have a bunch of ETFs that I buy on a semi regular basis. There is no immediate way for me to tell what part of what ETF is currently down in relation to when I bought it.

That depends on your broker. In a Vanguard brokerage account, you click on "Cost Basis", then "Unrealized Gains/Losses". Once you have done it once, it is very easy in the future. I can't comment on other brokers.

And if I did, how do I calculate/book keep all this not just for myself but for the IRS to accept?

In tax season, your broker will give you a 1099-B form that lists all of the sales you made in the prior tax year and any realized gains / losses. You just enter that stuff into your tax preparation software and it will do the rest. It is really no different from what you do for capital gains.

There is really only one special aspect of bookkeeping for TLH:

If you or your spouse buy the same stock within 30 days before or after your sale, it counts as a "wash sale" and you are not allowed to deduct those losses. You are responsible for determining whether something is a wash sale; there is a box for it on the 1099-B form, but you should not trust it to be accurate. Your broker does not have enough information to determine if something is a wash sale since the rule applies to purchases of the same stock made in any of your accounts, including accounts with other brokers and retirement accounts.

If this sounds too hard, there is a pretty simple strategy to make it easier:
- If you have any accounts that do automatic investment (for instance if you have set up regular 401K contributions), have them use a dedicated fund that you don't use in your taxable account. Target Date funds are good for this.
- Set a recurring event on your calendar that tells you when you are allowed to make manual purchases / sales, and make sure they are > 30 days apart. For instance, the 1st of every other month.

If you follow those two rules it is impossible to cause wash sales, so you don't need to do any extra bookkeeping.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
Thanks again for the impulse to look more into TLH, it really doesn't look as bad as I thought.
Found a step by step tutorial on it for both Fidelity and Vanguard.
I think based on what I have read I wont care about wash sales, as I prefer my dividends to be automatically re-invested.
As things stand now thought my taxable accounts don't have any losses to harvest at this time as all that has been in the market for a couple years now. But once the market tanks I will give this a shot. :)

One thing I am wondering is if it makes sense to use TLH to re-balance? So far I have only re-balanced by buying new, never by selling. But my balance is starting to get pretty lopsided, to the point where buy and hold would require a significant buy without a sell.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,399
One thing I am wondering is if it makes sense to use TLH to re-balance? So far I have only re-balanced by buying new, never by selling. But my balance is starting to get pretty lopsided, to the point where buy and hold would require a significant buy without a sell.

I think that is kind of tough to pull off. If you need to rebalance because one asset class has been significantly outperforming the other (e.g. stocks vs bonds or US vs non-US), then the asset class you would like to sell is the one that has been outperforming, ergo it is the least likely to have losses.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
I think that is kind of tough to pull off. If you need to rebalance because one asset class has been significantly outperforming the other (e.g. stocks vs bonds or US vs non-US), then the asset class you would like to sell is the one that has been outperforming, ergo it is the least likely to have losses.
Derp, yea. You're not wrong.
thanks again.
 

Fuhgeddit

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,698
I have no idea how re-balancing works on TransAmerica, I almost hate this retirement fund. I think I might convert my SEP IRA from fidelity to Rollover IRA and just start making contributions there so I can have them tax deductible in the end. I am getting sick of my job taking out of my check into this TransAmerica account and the offerings are just poor IMO as well as their website being the most confusing.
 

maximumzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,897
New Orleans, LA
Anyone have a preference for Interest Rates roundup sites? Once the wife and I find a house and the mortgage company isn't watching my checking account like a hawk I'd finally like to get some of my money into a money market account or savings account.

And don't use this as an attempt to upsell me on the stock market or something either, as usually happens.
 

Charismagik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,182
Ok, so I posted this in the Dow dropping thread and someone said to run here lol

I currently have my setup like this:

Bond:
10% - NT collective aggregate bond Index fund NL tier

Large cap stock:
60% - Northern trust S&P 500 index fund NL tier

International stock:
30% - NT collective all country world ex-US IMI tier

Someone asked about cash and I just know I have 35k in a checking account(is that bad?)

That was how I was advised to invest on here ages ago, but not sure now
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,636
Going to piggyback on this.

I'm still relatively young and my significant other and I keep our IRA holdings entirely in a stock index fund. Idea being that since we'll still be holding for a long time, current volatility won't matter.

Still, talk of an impending recession has brought me back to the drawing board as far as my mix is concerned. Is it foolish to have all of it pooled into an index fund? Should I be aiming for some split even if I still have a long time to hold? Or am I OK as is?
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
Ok, so I posted this in the Dow dropping thread and someone said to run here lol

I currently have my setup like this:

Bond:
10% - NT collective aggregate bond Index fund NL tier

Large cap stock:
60% - Northern trust S&P 500 index fund NL tier

International stock:
30% - NT collective all country world ex-US IMI tier

Someone asked about cash and I just know I have 35k in a checking account(is that bad?)

That was how I was advised to invest on here ages ago, but not sure now
Those Northern Trust funds look pretty expensive compared to regular ETF's recommended in the OP and throughout the thread.
The allocation percentages are fine.

Having 35k in a checking account earning basically no income is a huge waste, unless you expect to need that money any time soon invest it in the stock market.


In general you should consider moving your investments into cheaper equivalent funds in a new account with Vanguard or Fidelity.
 

Charismagik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,182
Those Northern Trust funds look pretty expensive compared to regular ETF's recommended in the OP and throughout the thread.
The allocation percentages are fine.

Having 35k in a checking account earning basically no income is a huge waste, unless you expect to need that money any time soon invest it in the stock market.


In general you should consider moving your investments into cheaper equivalent funds in a new account with Vanguard or Fidelity.
Thanks for that info. Forgot to mention that I also have a small target date roth IRA with vanguard. The 35k I was saving for trying to build a small house. So maybe look into investing it into the vanguard maybe? On the plus side I have zero debt
 
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Blergmeister

Member
Oct 27, 2017
342
That 35k should likely be in a high yield savings account or even some CDs. Something with a high interest rate (around 2% or more) Stocks is wrong for that thing if you plan to use it soon (within a few years) or it's an emergency fund.
 

J-Wood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,749
With all this recession talk, I decided to look at my 401k again and see where things stood. I really am not sure what I'm doing, but I talked to a few co workers and this is currently my mix. Can anyone tell me if this is absurd or not bad?

Domestic stock is around 75%, bonds are around 13%, short term is 8%, foreign stock is 2%. Most of my holdings are things with Index in the name.

I'm in my early 30s.
 
OP
OP
TheTrinity

TheTrinity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
713
Recession talk should change nothing about what you're doing. For both of you who mentioned it just keep doing what you're doing. If you're not near retirement it's basically irrelevant.
 

EJS

The Fallen - Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
9,176
Can anyone offer me some newbie resources? I am trying to get into investing since I am going to be transitioning into my 30's soon. I don't know too much right now, but I am trying to figure out the best approach to getting started / and or finding a worthwhile savings account.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
Can anyone offer me some newbie resources? I am trying to get into investing since I am going to be transitioning into my 30's soon. I don't know too much right now, but I am trying to figure out the best approach to getting started / and or finding a worthwhile savings account.
Have you considered the OT?
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,532
Its mildly annoying to make a contribution to my Roth IRA in the morning and then things suddenly start tanking that same day. Lol. I know its nothing to worry about cause retirement is way down the road for me but it almost feels like I stumbled into completely mistiming the market by contributing and buying ETF shares right before they drop.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
Its mildly annoying to make a contribution to my Roth IRA in the morning and then things suddenly start tanking that same day. Lol. I know its nothing to worry about cause retirement is way down the road for me but it almost feels like I stumbled into completely mistiming the market by contributing and buying ETF shares right before they drop.
We all feel your pain and know it all to well.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just don't log into your brokerage account till you make the next contribution. 😉
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,636

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,532
We all feel your pain and know it all to well.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just don't log into your brokerage account till you make the next contribution. 😉
Good suggestion. I'm logging off and ignoring it for 2 weeks. Don't want to be reminded of those "unlucky" buys.

I like this. Feel a lot less annoyed with myself now lol
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,211
Yeah, my paycheck weeks always seem to line up exactly wrong for hitting these very narrowly timed lows.
 

ArchStanton

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,264
I'm wondering if I could get this thread's advice...

I plan on leaving my full-time job with benefits, 401k, etc., for a far more lucrative contractor job. The financial and career opportunities are too good to pass up, despite the anxiousness I feel about leaving behind my benefits. Anyway, that's all back story to this:

After paying for my own healthcare/dental/vision (ugh), withholding for taxes, and so on, what type of account should I put my retirement money into?

I already have a Roth-IRA with Vanguard that I contribute to regularly.

Should I also do a personal 401k or a SEP-IRA? Something else?

I plan on rolling over my 401k to Vanguard.

If anyone out there is a contractor, particularly if you're in my weird position and have left your full-time job, I would love to get your insights.

Thanks!
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
I'm wondering if I could get this thread's advice...

I plan on leaving my full-time job with benefits, 401k, etc., for a far more lucrative contractor job. The financial and career opportunities are too good to pass up, despite the anxiousness I feel about leaving behind my benefits. Anyway, that's all back story to this:

After paying for my own healthcare/dental/vision (ugh), withholding for taxes, and so on, what type of account should I put my retirement money into?

I already have a Roth-IRA with Vanguard that I contribute to regularly.

Should I also do a personal 401k or a SEP-IRA? Something else?

I plan on rolling over my 401k to Vanguard.

If anyone out there is a contractor, particularly if you're in my weird position and have left your full-time job, I would love to get your insights.

Thanks!


I'm not a contractor, but part-time with a high rate. I just max out a Roth and my husband maxes out both his 401(k) and his own Roth. That's enough for us ($31k/year plus a match of a few thousand/year on the 401(k) that gets us to about $35k/yr).

I assume you do not have a spouse who has a 401(k) of their own.
 

ArchStanton

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,264
I'm not a contractor, but part-time with a high rate. I just max out a Roth and my husband maxes out both his 401(k) and his own Roth. That's enough for us ($31k/year plus a match of a few thousand/year on the 401(k) that gets us to about $35k/yr).

I assume you do not have a spouse who has a 401(k) of their own.

That is correct. I'm going to get married this fall, but my fiancé doesn't have a 401k of her own. She does have her own Roth IRA, though.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
That is correct. I'm going to get married this fall, but my fiancé doesn't have a 401k of her own. She does have her own Roth IRA, though.
Unfortunately I am not versed on self employed retirement fund options, which sounds like something you need to look into. Hoping someone else can chime in.


PS: Great avatar
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
So my plan right now is to pay off 65% of my house's market value, since that is the maximum I can get on my line of credit (heloc I guess you call them in english), borrow that amount, invest it, and deduct all the interest on that loan, since in Canada you can't deduct interest on your mortgage interest but you can on a loan if it's invested in an income-generating vehicle.

I just have to figure why right now I have 0 on my line of credit other than what I paid on the loan so far, when it should include the amount I paid on my cashdown. The amount is there but for some reason it's in another column that says "initial amount" instead of current amount, the later only has what I refunded on the loan, as I can't pull the cashdown's equity. Better not be some shenanigan on the institution part, maybe it takes some time before it becomes available, only bought a month ago.

Makes sense? Usually they call this a debt swap. Seems like a no brainer to do so.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,399
So my plan right now is to pay off 65% of my house's market value, since that is the maximum I can get on my line of credit (heloc I guess you call them in english), borrow that amount, invest it, and deduct all the interest on that loan, since in Canada you can't deduct interest on your mortgage interest but you can on a loan if it's invested in an income-generating vehicle.

I just have to figure why right now I have 0 on my line of credit other than what I paid on the loan so far, when it should include the amount I paid on my cashdown. The amount is there but for some reason it's in another column that says "initial amount" instead of current amount, the later only has what I refunded on the loan, as I can't pull the cashdown's equity. Better not be some shenanigan on the institution part, maybe it takes some time before it becomes available, only bought a month ago.

Makes sense? Usually they call this a debt swap. Seems like a no brainer to do so.

I'm not familiar with Canadian law, but this sort of strategy would be considered high risk in the US. I think many people would call it reckless.

Margin investing in stocks is considered a more risky version of leveraged investing than mortgages under our laws for a few reasons:
- Your lender can issue a margin call forcing you to sell your position or put down new collateral.
- Margin calls suffer from correlated risk, because banks are more likely to issue them during a recession / credit crunch, which is also when your investment is more likely to be in the red.
- Mortgage debt is subject to more legal protection, is easier to refinance, and has longer timelines for delinquency.

Again, that's based on US law, but I would encourage you to check whether the similar issues exist in Canada.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I'm not familiar with Canadian law, but this sort of strategy would be considered high risk in the US. I think many people would call it reckless.

Margin investing in stocks is considered a more risky version of leveraged investing than mortgages under our laws for a few reasons:
- Your lender can issue a margin call forcing you to sell your position or put down new collateral.
- Margin calls suffer from correlated risk, because banks are more likely to issue them during a recession / credit crunch, which is also when your investment is more likely to be in the red.
- Mortgage debt is subject to more legal protection, is easier to refinance, and has longer timelines for delinquency.

Again, that's based on US law, but I would encourage you to check whether the similar issues exist in Canada.

Yes the banks may make a margin call out of nowhere but don't they usually do this on higher risk loans? If everything's fine on my end I would expect them to go after other loans. Also, selling is quick. The risk I do see is if somehow they did request full repayment at a time when markets have crashed. But I'm not sure I would expect that from big institutions, and the money in question would be invested because I can keep it invested, no emergency fund going to this.

Definitely going to check with a financial adviser, but I think the benefits seem to outweigh the risk in my position. Gonna have to check what the odds are on margin calls.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
I'm not familiar with Canadian law, but this sort of strategy would be considered high risk in the US. I think many people would call it reckless.

Margin investing in stocks is considered a more risky version of leveraged investing than mortgages under our laws for a few reasons:
- Your lender can issue a margin call forcing you to sell your position or put down new collateral.
- Margin calls suffer from correlated risk, because banks are more likely to issue them during a recession / credit crunch, which is also when your investment is more likely to be in the red.
- Mortgage debt is subject to more legal protection, is easier to refinance, and has longer timelines for delinquency.

Again, that's based on US law, but I would encourage you to check whether the similar issues exist in Canada.

This is something called the Smith Manoeuvre and it's a popular-ish strategy in Canada. He wouldn't be using margin in the traditional margin account sense but borrowing against his house and using that money to buy stocks. By borrowing the money for the sake of borrowing stocks instead of buying a house you are allowed to deduct the interest you pay on the loan from your income at tax time. Also interest with a home secured loan (a HELOC, Home Equity Line of Credit) is a lot lower than margin account interest rates. Further, dividends from Canadian companies are tax privileged such that if you received $200 in Canadian dividends you would only be taxed $100 multiplied by your marginal tax rate.

This might be done not just to leverage more in general but to make your mortgage interest tax deductible in a situation where you might have otherwise just invested some money in the stock market instead of putting more money towards your mortgage. You'd put all the money towards your mortgage but then borrow it back out to invest. It's something that makes a lot more sense if you're in a 50%+ tax bracket versus the 20% one.
 
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tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,399
This is something called the Smith Manoeuvre and it's a popular-ish strategy in Canada. He wouldn't be using margin in the traditional margin account sense but borrowing against his house and using that money to buy stocks. By borrowing the money for the sake of borrowing stocks instead of buying a house you are allowed to deduct the interest you pay on the loan from your income at tax time. Also interest with a home secured loan (a HELOC, Home Equity Line of Credit) is a lot lower than margin account interest rates. Further, dividends from Canadian companies are tax privileged such that if you received $200 in Canadian dividends you would only be taxed $100 multiplied by your marginal tax rate.

This might be done not just to leverage more in general but to make your mortgage interest tax deductible in a situation where you might have otherwise just invested some money in the stock market instead of putting more money towards your mortgage. You'd put all the money towards your mortgage but then borrow it back out to invest. It's something that makes a lot more sense if you're in a 50%+ tax bracket versus the 20% one.

I see, thanks for the info. Here in the US, the law was changed to make this type of strategy less tax-advantaged.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,703
Man... I know one of the best lessons is to never time the market..

When I see Buffet loading loads of cash, all the economic instability, and market indicators, it all gives me pause.

I'm not going to slow contributing to my 401K - that will be consistent and I will max that out, but for everything else in excess of that, I'm really thinking what I want to do here (first I would need to max out my Roth at some point this year as well so maybe I just do that).
 

Smiley90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,729
This is something called the Smith Manoeuvre and it's a popular-ish strategy in Canada. He wouldn't be using margin in the traditional margin account sense but borrowing against his house and using that money to buy stocks. By borrowing the money for the sake of borrowing stocks instead of buying a house you are allowed to deduct the interest you pay on the loan from your income at tax time. Also interest with a home secured loan (a HELOC, Home Equity Line of Credit) is a lot lower than margin account interest rates. Further, dividends from Canadian companies are tax privileged such that if you received $200 in Canadian dividends you would only be taxed $100 multiplied by your marginal tax rate.

This might be done not just to leverage more in general but to make your mortgage interest tax deductible in a situation where you might have otherwise just invested some money in the stock market instead of putting more money towards your mortgage. You'd put all the money towards your mortgage but then borrow it back out to invest. It's something that makes a lot more sense if you're in a 50%+ tax bracket versus the 20% one.

Note: You're technically only allowed to deduct investment loan payments from your taxes if they go towards dividend-paying stocks, not towards stocks that only accrue capital gains. If that's ever actually enforced I don't know, but thems the rules.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,703
Man... I know one of the best lessons is to never time the market..

When I see Buffet loading loads of cash, all the economic instability, and market indicators, it all gives me pause.

I'm not going to slow contributing to my 401K - that will be consistent and I will max that out, but for everything else in excess of that, I'm really thinking what I want to do here (first I would need to max out my Roth at some point this year as well so maybe I just do that).

Nvm -



I should note that I don't have enough on my to max out ATM, but it's still a bunch of a cash that's not doing much. I'm in this for the long hall anyways, and I'm missing out on dividends.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,399
Man... I know one of the best lessons is to never time the market..

When I see Buffet loading loads of cash, all the economic instability, and market indicators, it all gives me pause.

I'm not going to slow contributing to my 401K - that will be consistent and I will max that out, but for everything else in excess of that, I'm really thinking what I want to do here (first I would need to max out my Roth at some point this year as well so maybe I just do that).

People were talking about recession at the start of 2016 as well, and the S&P 500 is up 50% since then.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
People were talking about recession at the start of 2016 as well, and the S&P 500 is up 50% since then.
Sure, but that doesn't change the facts that recession indicators are starting to show. Not to mention that recessions are a natural thing that come around about every 10 years. As for the stock market, well i wouldn't want to time the top. The stock market is known to be divorced from reality at times. Especially when you look at bonds, then look at banking stocks.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
Sure, but that doesn't change the facts that recession indicators are starting to show. Not to mention that recessions are a natural thing that come around about every 10 years. As for the stock market, well i wouldn't want to time the top. The stock market is known to be divorced from reality at times. Especially when you look at bonds, then look at banking stocks.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that recessions do happen and that one (and more) will happen in the future. But trying to predict when one hits is a fools errand.
There were recession markers 2 years ago too.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that recessions do happen and that one (and more) will happen in the future. But trying to predict when one hits is a fools errand.
There were recession markers 2 years ago too.
It all depends on how long it takes before it can't be ignored. I'll be honest if i were trading back then I'd be skeptical of how things were going. Just looking at the charts i can get what they were saying.

Anyway, with recessions come great opportunities for buying into the market. I already have money set aside to start buying. Whenever it decides to appear.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,532
I just realized I don't even know how to contribute more into my 401k. I'm only doing the 4% match. I need to look into how to do that. I mean I won't be able to make out the 19K for the year but if I have anything I can spare, I'd like to at least toss a bit more into my 401K at the end of the year.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,587
I just realized I don't even know how to contribute more into my 401k. I'm only doing the 4% match. I need to look into how to do that. I mean I won't be able to make out the 19K for the year but if I have anything I can spare, I'd like to at least toss a bit more into my 401K at the end of the year.

Either you can do it directly on the website (of the 401k provider) or talk to HR.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,532
Either you can do it directly on the website (of the 401k provider) or talk to HR.
Thanks. I'll take a look at the website first. It was already tricky to set up the Voya app on my phone to connect it to my work stuff properly but I bet they'll be able to help me figure this out. If not, I'll go to HR and see what they know about it.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Thanks. I'll take a look at the website first. It was already tricky to set up the Voya app on my phone to connect it to my work stuff properly but I bet they'll be able to help me figure this out. If not, I'll go to HR and see what they know about it.
Hahaha we use Voya at my work. Their sites are terrible. Not sure about your job, but at mine, people have to go through HR (meaning me) to change their contribution.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,532
Hahaha we use Voya at my work. Their sites are terrible. Not sure about your job, but at mine, people have to go through HR (meaning me) to change their contribution.
That sounds kind of frustrating to deal with. Is it a long process for you to have to do that? I've only changed my contribution once but I could just log into Voya and do that with relative ease. But that feels like the only thing easy with them. The app and site feel very annoying to use overall for me. So I definitely agree with you there
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
That sounds kind of frustrating to deal with. Is it a long process for you to have to do that? I've only changed my contribution once but I could just log into Voya and do that with relative ease. But that feels like the only thing easy with them. The app and site feel very annoying to use overall for me. So I definitely agree with you there
No it's not a big deal because we only have like 40 employees.