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Oct 25, 2017
4,158
I think the Vanguard target funds are great for tax advanced accounts. They are lost cost and low maintenance. That's what I buy for my ROTH account.

It's worth noting there are a lot of lousy target date funds, so you have to be careful. Vanguard's is the crown jewel.

The downside is, when you sell them you can't distinguish what you sell. Take the scenario of a stock market crash right after you retire. In that case, you might prefer to move your withdraws to bonds, since they would be more stable, rather than sell your stock index funds when the market was in a crash. With target date funds, you can't do that.

If you're following modern portfolio theory you shouldn't be looking to sell certain parts depending what the market is doing. The important thing is to keep your asset allocation, which a target fund will do even when you sell it. That's how you reduce risk. Anything else is market timing.
 
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Deleted member 13131

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Oct 27, 2017
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If you're following modern portfolio theory you shouldn't be looking to sell certain parts depending what the market is doing. The important thing is to keep your asset allocation, which a target fund will do even when you sell it. That's how you reduce risk. Anything else is market timing.
I subscribe wholeheartedly to this theory, but I think this is a circumstance that warrants consideration. Another way to think of it is re-balancing the portfolios.

On the prior page, we've been discussing using future contributions to shift our allocation mix. It's a method I and many others use, so that we are not timing the market with big allocation shifts but rather future investments over time.

When you transition from contributing to retirement to drawing down your retirement savings, the same principles apply. We will have a targeted mix of assets and will be continuing to manage that mix. A big market crash during retirement will drop the % of stocks by a large margin, well outside of the 5% thresholds we've been discussing for target allocation mix.

So if we're following standard re-balancing methods, we'd do one of two things to shift the allocation back: shift some money from bonds to stocks, or move our withdrawals from stocks over to bonds, until the balance is roughly restored. The latter is what I was talking about.

This has the side effect of reducing withdrawals on stocks when the market is low, and returning them when it (and targeted allocations) return, but that's not the framing I had in mind. (Though reading my prior post, I didn't make that as clear as I had intended.) The goal is to maintain your target allocation mix.

If you are in a target date fund that will re-allocate to a mix you are happy with, you can just let this happen. Personally, I plan to hold a larger share of stocks in retirement than most target date funds hold, so I will need to do the re-balancing myself. I plan to use withdrawals to do so, just as I use contributions to re-balance now.
 

RBH

Official ERA expert on Third Party Football
Member
Nov 2, 2017
32,938
I'm interested in opening up a Roth IRA and was wondering if there's any particular reason to choose Vanguard over Fidelity or vice versa.

I'm still very new to investing, so I apologize for any dumb questions in advance. All of your guys' posts here and on the other forum have always been greatly appreciated by me.
 

Keyboard

Guest
John Bogle founded Vanguard with the idea of index investing.

We have more choices now. Other companies will try to persuade you into their active management funds with a lot of backtesting performance charts. Vanguard has a few like Wellington and Wellesley, but the company is run like a credit union. It offers low cost funds and has a lot of useful bond investments during retirement.

Bogle could have been the richest person in the world, but he isn't. His passive investing idea disrupted the financial industry and continues to do so to this day.

Other firms like Schwab and Fidelity also include banking services. Schwab has free ATM withdrawal service around the world. ZackieChan says he plans to retire abroad with Schwab. Fidelity has (had?) a 2% rewards credit card that is supposed to encourage its users to invest with them.

Many employers use Fidelity as a 401k provider. Some people stick with them because they like having their accounts in one place.
 
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House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
I use Fidelity. Decent app, very good customer service. Will hand hold you as much as you need.




I'm thinking of moving some funds into NVDA this upcoming Monday to take advantage of the dip. It's probably not going to drop anymore, might even rally. Going to avoid AMD. Looking at Arris as well. They have a strong WiFi/Cellular play coming down the pipeline that could pay off well.

Thoughts?
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
I'm interested in opening up a Roth IRA and was wondering if there's any particular reason to choose Vanguard over Fidelity or vice versa.

I'm still very new to investing, so I apologize for any dumb questions in advance. All of your guys' posts here and on the other forum have always been greatly appreciated by me.

I personally prefer Vanguard due to the way that the business is structured.

"Vanguard is structured as a mutual company; it is owned by funds managed by the company, and is therefore owned by its customers"

I want to reward them for that and I believe, in the long-run, they are less likely to screw me over with any surprise fees or increase in expense ratio. That doesn't mean I think fidelity is likely at all to do that thanks to market forces and competition, just that they are more likely than vanguard.
 
Oct 27, 2017
21,545
I'm interested in opening up a Roth IRA and was wondering if there's any particular reason to choose Vanguard over Fidelity or vice versa.

I'm still very new to investing, so I apologize for any dumb questions in advance. All of your guys' posts here and on the other forum have always been greatly appreciated by me.

I'm with Schwab but if I were to do it again I'd go with Vanguard, because of the reason Piecake says. I can't switch, though, because I'd get slaughtered on taxes with what I have in my non-tax advantaged brokerage account.
I heard a couple of weeks ago that Vanguard is getting the lion's share of new investment money nowadays with everyone else fighting over what remains. It's due to this that I don't think Schwab will increase any of my fees - that's really all they have to fight against the Vanguard behemoth. I've actually seen my fees go down in recent years. My main ETF with them went from .06% to now it's .03%. I also have their S&P 500 fund in my HSA and that dropped from .09% to .03%.
But still, if it were viable I'd be with Vanguard.
 

Keyboard

Guest
I'm thinking of moving some funds.
You can make a stock OT thread. None of this talk belongs here.

You might as well invest in Facebook as you're just guessing winners and losers when you can invest in everything with a couple of index mutual fund/ETF.
I want to reward them for that and I believe, in the long-run, they are less likely to screw me over with any surprise fees or increase in expense ratio. That doesn't mean I think fidelity is likely at all to do that thanks to market forces and competition, just that they are more likely than vanguard.
Question for the walk-in firms is who is paying for retail space? I see Fidelity in very expensive neighborhoods, and I don't understand how they can afford all of that. They're like Chase of investment firms except Chase has mandatory minimum account balances.
 
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House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Can't make threads yet. :(


It's less of a guess. NVDA is really strong in the AI and DC sector and that's going to explode.
 
OP
OP
TheTrinity

TheTrinity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
713
Oh yeah, I thought the other thread would have come back as well, there was a (fairly active?) Stocks-Age over there. Maybe that community didn't migrate.
 

Keyboard

Guest
Maybe someone can post in adopt a thread thread there to start one. Make a OT in there, and someone can post the whole thing.

It's less of a guess.
Are you looking for a story to justify a purchase?

If you ever read how the media reported on why Cisco rose and plummeted in 90s/early 2000s, there were countless reports beforehand praising its products + management in numerous magazines and newsprints. A huge bear occurred within a few years later, and suddenly media blamed products + management for downfall when nothing changed in the company. How does that make sense?
 
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House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Maybe someone can post in adopt a thread thread there to start one. Make a OT in there, and someone can post the whole thing.


Are you looking for a story to justify a purchase?

If you ever read how the media reported on why Cisco rose and plummeted in 90s/early 2000s, there were countless reports beforehand praising its products + management in numerous magazines and newsprints. A huge bear occurred within a few years later, and suddenly media blamed products + management for downfall when nothing changed in the company. How does that make sense?

They bought Airespace, let it stagnate, then bought Meraki and the two divisions competed against each other internally for the same revenue stream. Cisco made a play for the consumer market and bungled it hilariously. They started buying dumb shit like the Flip Camera system and then immediately bailed on it. They bought Linksys while severely mismanaging it.

There was a 10 year period of change and significant missteps for Cisco.
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,596
Missed that this topic was made. Was updating my address on Vanguard and caught that my International fund is up over 27% this year. That's why you don't follow trends and stay the course.
 

Keyboard

Guest
There was a 10 year period of change and significant missteps for Cisco.
You forgot the peak of Cisco not the aftermath, which is what you described (2001+). Look at prior, and you'll see what I said applies.

What media says + what the stock could do does not translate to results. Media can change the narrative later because hindsight is 20/20.

When you invest in everything, you don't have to care.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
21,545
Total international index

International sucked for the last couple years so some people on the old forum were advising against allocating much or anything in international. Was just a matter of time before the trend was bucked and it had a good year.

That's up 23.6% on the year not 27% but it's still awesome. My international developed is up about 20% while my emerging markets one is up 21% (it was up 23% it looks like before falling back a bit over the last month). The US total market has been on a tear this year but is still back of those numbers at about 15%.
edit: My math skills apparently suck today. Yours is up 24.8%. Mine are SCHF up 24% and SCHE up 27.7%. Meanwhile my total US SCHB is up 19.8%.
 
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Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,596
That's up 23.6% on the year not 27% but it's still awesome. My international developed is up about 20% while my emerging markets one is up 21% (it was up 23% it looks like before falling back a bit over the last month). The US total market has been on a tear this year but is still back of those numbers at about 15%.
edit: My math skills apparently suck today. Yours is up 24.8%. Mine are SCHF up 24% and SCHE up 27.7%. Meanwhile my total US SCHB is up 19.8%.

I was basing it on what Vanguard has listed, I guess it also includes contributions.
 

RBH

Official ERA expert on Third Party Football
Member
Nov 2, 2017
32,938
I personally prefer Vanguard due to the way that the business is structured.

"Vanguard is structured as a mutual company; it is owned by funds managed by the company, and is therefore owned by its customers"

I want to reward them for that and I believe, in the long-run, they are less likely to screw me over with any surprise fees or increase in expense ratio. That doesn't mean I think fidelity is likely at all to do that thanks to market forces and competition, just that they are more likely than vanguard.

I'm with Schwab but if I were to do it again I'd go with Vanguard, because of the reason Piecake says. I can't switch, though, because I'd get slaughtered on taxes with what I have in my non-tax advantaged brokerage account.
I heard a couple of weeks ago that Vanguard is getting the lion's share of new investment money nowadays with everyone else fighting over what remains. It's due to this that I don't think Schwab will increase any of my fees - that's really all they have to fight against the Vanguard behemoth. I've actually seen my fees go down in recent years. My main ETF with them went from .06% to now it's .03%. I also have their S&P 500 fund in my HSA and that dropped from .09% to .03%.
But still, if it were viable I'd be with Vanguard.
Thank you!

If I wanted to compare the expense ratios of the Target Date Index Funds of Schwab, Fidelity, and Vanguard for example, is there a website that lets me do that?
 

Keyboard

Guest
^
If I wanted to compare the expense ratios of the Target Date Index Funds of Schwab, Fidelity, and Vanguard for example, is there a website that lets me do that?
In OP's guidelines, 0.20 or less is considered great.

Don't let the higher cost funds dissuade you from starting. You automatically graduate to lower cost funds at the $10K mark for many funds out there.
 

RBH

Official ERA expert on Third Party Football
Member
Nov 2, 2017
32,938
Morningstar would have that information.

^

In OP's guidelines, 0.20 or less is considered great.

Don't let the higher cost funds dissuade you from starting. You automatically graduate to lower cost funds at the $10K mark for many funds out there.
Thanks!

So here are the ones I'm looking at for a 2050 Target Fund:

http://beta.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/swymx/quote.html
http://beta.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/fipfx/quote.html
http://beta.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vfifx/quote.html


Schwab expense ratio - 0.08%
Fidelity expense ratio - 0.15%
Vanguard expense ratio - 0.16%


Another dumb question, but are these expense ratios subject to change? If so, how often?
 

Keyboard

Guest
Since these are active funds, they will generally cost a bit higher than owning individual index funds. They might change from year to year and most unfortunately don't have a lower expense fund like index funds do.

You could consider owning an index fund like Total Stock Market and Total International Market since it might make your asset management easier if you plan to invest elsewhere like in a 401k or taxable account.

I don't know if Schwab has had tracking errors in their respective funds. Fidelity's US bond market fund had a tracking error in 2008/2009 causing it to underperform compared to the Barclays Aggregate Bond index or Vanguard total bond market fund.
 
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moblin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,107
Москва
Another dumb question, but are these expense ratios subject to change? If so, how often?
The expense ratios can and almost certainly will change, of course.

The undeniable trend over the last two decades as index funds began to have serious impact has been downward pressure on expense ratios due to competition, so it's unlikely that they would jump by a significant amount, if at all.

But 2050 is a very long time from now, so it's your call as to what you're most comfortable with.
 

Keyboard

Guest
Passive index investing keeps making dents against active investing, and firms are not happy about it as it is digging into profits.

I posted a Morningstar interview with Bogle in a post earlier in this thread. Bogle does mention this.

Expenses might be cheaper now at one firm, but you may also need to look at the company's history and culture.
 

RBH

Official ERA expert on Third Party Football
Member
Nov 2, 2017
32,938
Since these are active funds, they will generally cost a bit higher than owning individual index funds. They might change from year to year and most unfortunately don't have a lower expense fund like index funds do.

You could consider owning an index fund like Total Stock Market and Total International Market since it might make your asset management easier if you plan to invest elsewhere like in a 401k or taxable account.

I don't know if Schwab has had tracking errors in their respective funds. Fidelity's US bond market fund had a tracking error in 2008/2009 causing it to underperform compared to the Barclays Aggregate Bond index or Vanguard total bond market fund.

The expense ratios can and almost certainly will change, of course.

The undeniable trend over the last two decades as index funds began to have serious impact has been downward pressure on expense ratios due to competition, so it's unlikely that they would jump by a significant amount, if at all.

But 2050 is a very long time from now, so it's your call as to what you're most comfortable with.

Passive index investing keeps making dents against active investing, and firms are not happy about it as it is digging into profits.

I posted a Morningstar interview with Bogle in a post earlier in this thread. Bogle does mention this.

Expenses might be cheaper now at one firm, but you may also need to look at the company's history and culture.
I see. I'm learning quite a bit thanks to you guys haha



My idea for now was to do just a target fund for a Roth IRA because

A) As a medical resident, the amount of time I have to research and keep track of individual funds is limited unfortunately, so having something that's more "hands-off" like a target fund is more ideal at this point in my career
B) As a medical resident, my annual income (~$55K) is also limited :(, so that curbs the amount of investment options I have over the next few years


I'm trying to compare the target funds (2050) for Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab, and while the ER for Schwab is less than the other two, the expected return might be better for Vanguard in the long-term? (at least according to Morningstar, if I'm reading this right) But at the same time, the Schwab target fund seems to be made up of ETFs, while Vanguard and Fidelity are made up of index funds, so I'm not quite sure how to compare the three in that regard.

Would that expected higher return from Vanguard probably override any benefit from the lower ER from Schwab in the long-term? All of the positive feedback regarding Vanguard that I've read online has me leaning towards them despite their target fund having a higher ER than Fidelity and Schwab.
 

Keyboard

Guest
Guideline # 2. Past performance does not guarantee future returns.

I think you can't go wrong either way as long as you keep in mind of basic guidelines posted in OP (in wrapping it all up section). Not all Bogleheads invest at Vanguard. That said, you're looking at 7-8 points in costs compared to very expensive 100-300 points that some smaller firms out there offer.

In worst case scenario, you can always transfer your account to a different firm if management/structure changes.

Something I noticed: Schwab + Vanguard target retirement funds reinvest dividends once an year where as Fidelity reinvests twice an year in smaller quantities.

Compare a stock index fund usually invests at least twice in an year. 4 times for popular ones.

You can find this information at the bottom of the morningstar quote.

Schwab's offering looks very new. Low expense might be low for now to entice newer investors kind of how Geico insurance operates (discount for first year and then rise insurance price next year). Vanguard + Fidelity have been around longer.

I've also read that some firms have tricky math in stating costs in terms of where the cost deductions occur. There is fine print.

_______________________________________________________________

In life, some people say, "You pay what you get for." (despite ending sentence with a preposition)

That doesn't apply to passive investing.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
89
Right now at my main job I'm putting away 10% of my pay into a regular 401(k) and 6% into a Roth, the latter of which they just started offering this year. I'm really happy about that. The returns have been near 20% though which I'm sure won't last long.
 

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,770
Question for all of those who leverage dollar cost averaging:

If you receive a large sum of money (say a bonus), do you continue to use it through your normal DCA or do you invest it lump (or other)?

Example: You typically invest $5,000 quarterly. You receive a $20,000 one time bonus. Do you a) Invest an extra $5,000 per quarter for 4 quarters or do you invest $25,000 the first quarter and return to $5,000 afterwards?
 

Keyboard

Guest
Personal taste.

Lump is supposed to work out better in the long run.

DCA is dipping toes in water.
 
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Plidex

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,153
This isn't about retirement but I didn't find a general investement thread.

I'm in the process of opening an account in tastyworks. I'm a non resident alien of the USA. I read everything I could find on the IRS about taxation, and from what I found the brokerage firm wouldn't need to withhold 30% of tax from my net gains. But I'm still not 100% confident and since in the registration form I have to tell them if they need to withhold tax, I want to be sure.

Anyone can help me?

Edit: I will trade options.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,828
Anyone know how long you can have a traditional IRA open before transitioning it into a Roth IRA? After speaking to a couple of financial advisers, they recommend that a Roth is eventually the way to go for me, but to turn one of my 401ks into a traditional IRA first so that I don't get bombarded with tax hits.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
This isn't about retirement but I didn't find a general investement thread.

I'm in the process of opening an account in tastyworks. I'm a non resident alien of the USA. I read everything I could find on the IRS about taxation, and from what I found the brokerage firm wouldn't need to withhold 30% of tax from my net gains. But I'm still not 100% confident and since in the registration form I have to tell them if they need to withhold tax, I want to be sure.

Anyone can help me?

Edit: I will trade options.

You should consult a tax lawyer.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,937
OK, so I want to open up an IRA that is as basic and easy as possible. As in, I can toss money in there whenever I feel like it and the bank will handle all the trading stuff because I'm clueless about the stock market.

1. Roth or Traditional?

2. Fidelity? Vanguad? TRP?

3. Help me I have no clue honestly. lol

I've already got a 401K with a company I no longer work for. Somehow, it's still making lots of money even though I'm not putting in a dime. So, I'm not touching that.

I am looking to throw in $1000 into a fresh IRA though to kickstart it and then I'll add a little here and there as I go. I'm not planning on taking any withdrawals until retirement - literally not touching it at all except deposits. I'm hoping for something I can toss money into without having to pay any taxes on the deposits, if that's possible, and just keep filling it up until I hit retirement age.

SUGGESTIONS??!?!?! THANKS!
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,876
Metro Detroit
OK, so I want to open up an IRA that is as basic and easy as possible. As in, I can toss money in there whenever I feel like it and the bank will handle all the trading stuff because I'm clueless about the stock market.

1. Roth or Traditional?

2. Fidelity? Vanguad? TRP?

3. Help me I have no clue honestly. lol

I've already got a 401K with a company I no longer work for. Somehow, it's still making lots of money even though I'm not putting in a dime. So, I'm not touching that.

I am looking to throw in $1000 into a fresh IRA though to kickstart it and then I'll add a little here and there as I go. I'm not planning on taking any withdrawals until retirement - literally not touching it at all except deposits. I'm hoping for something I can toss money into without having to pay any taxes on the deposits, if that's possible, and just keep filling it up until I hit retirement age.

SUGGESTIONS??!?!?! THANKS!

1) Depends... what is your income/tax situation like?
2) Either really, I use Fidelity for everything because my 401k is at Fidelity. Without that constraint most favor Vanguard.
3) That is what we are here for. :)

Go to Vanguard and open an account there, that can be your first action item. :)
 

Keyboard

Guest
Anyone know how long you can have a traditional IRA open before transitioning it into a Roth IRA? After speaking to a couple of financial advisers, they recommend that a Roth is eventually the way to go for me, but to turn one of my 401ks into a traditional IRA first so that I don't get bombarded with tax hits.
I think you can transfer immediately with a limit of one conversion (any amount) per year. Firm will present you a form to sign regarding withholding taxes (you deal with them so transfer 100% or they hold some money back).

You're allowed to have both a Traditional and Roth IRA although total contribution combined is $5500 per year unless you're in the age bracket to catch up.
OK, so I want to open up an IRA that is as basic and easy as possible. As in, I can toss money in there whenever I feel like it and the bank will handle all the trading stuff because I'm clueless about the stock market.

1. Roth or Traditional?

2. Fidelity? Vanguad? TRP?

3. Help me I have no clue honestly. lol

I've already got a 401K with a company I no longer work for. Somehow, it's still making lots of money even though I'm not putting in a dime. So, I'm not touching that.

I am looking to throw in $1000 into a fresh IRA though to kickstart it and then I'll add a little here and there as I go. I'm not planning on taking any withdrawals until retirement - literally not touching it at all except deposits. I'm hoping for something I can toss money into without having to pay any taxes on the deposits, if that's possible, and just keep filling it up until I hit retirement age.

SUGGESTIONS??!?!?! THANKS!
1. Depends on income. How much do you make? Do you want to pay taxes now or get a tax deduction now and pay taxes later?

2. That's up to you. Fidelity + Vanguard are top two with reasons described earlier in this thread.

3. Read the OP.

4. What's in your current 401K? You might be losing money due to high expense ratios and have a lot to gain to rollover it to a Traditional IRA.

5. Looks like you're looking at a retirement date fund since that's usually the minimum investment start cost.
 
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Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,937
I think you can transfer immediately with a limit of one conversion (any amount) per year. Firm will present you a form to sign regarding withholding taxes (you deal with them so transfer 100% or they hold some money back).

You're allowed to have both a Traditional and Roth IRA although total contribution combined is $5500 per year unless you're in the age bracket to catch up.

1. Depends on income. How much do you make? Sounds like you want a Roth from a reason you described at the end.

2. That's up to you. Fidelity + Vanguard are top two with reasons described earlier in this thread.

3. Read the OP.

4. What's in your current 401K? You might be losing money due to high expense ratios and have a lot to gain to rollover it to a Traditional IRA.

5. Looks like you're looking at a retirement date fund since that's usually the minimum investment start cost.


1. 42K/year myself (not including my wife)
2. I have about $8K vested in my 401K. That's with Prudential. It used to be with Fidelity but got transferred over to Prud.
3. Reading the OP, but fuzzy on everything.
 

Keyboard

Guest
1. Roth unless your paycheck doesn't withhold enough taxes. Do you find yourself paying a lot of taxes every year to the magnitude that you pay a penalty or do you always get a return?
2. What are expense ratios of funds invested at Prudential?
3. Ask questions.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,607
1. 42K/year myself (not including my wife)
2. I have about $8K vested in my 401K. That's with Prudential. It used to be with Fidelity but got transferred over to Prud.
3. Reading the OP, but fuzzy on everything.

Sorry for jumping in as well but what's your debt situation like? Are you good on house or rent situation?

What does your company match on the 401k? What % do you put in?

If you have specific questions I (and others) will offer some advice.

As Keyboard said it looks like you're looking for a target date fund, let's look at this:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0696&FundIntExt=INT&ps_disable_redirect=true

This is a fund for people that want to retire around 2036-2040. It's weighted in a way to have more equity now and will adjust on it's own to safer assets over the next 23 years.
Expense ratio is .16, pretty good.

Here's Vanguard's total stock market index fund:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=INT&FundId=0085&ps_disable_redirect=true
This is a fund designed to track the total stock market, it will not self adjust, so as you get older you should think about switching from equities to bonds or something else safter as a larger % of holding of your total assets.
Expense ratio .15, pretty good.

Important to note that both of these funds are ALREADY diversified. You don't need to do much more than both of these as an example if you went w/ them unless you wanted some targeted areas. Mid cap vs small cap etc.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,937
1. Roth unless your paycheck doesn't withhold enough. Do you find yourself paying a lot of taxes every year?
2. Transfer to a Vanguard or Fidelity.
3. Ask questions.

1. I owe nothing in taxes each year. My employer withholds on my W4. In fact my wife and I always get a big refund check since we overpay.
2. If I do Roth IRA, what's the minimum to open the account? And is there a maximum? I keep seeing a $5500 number for that.
3. Will I take a big hit transferring my 401K to the a Roth IRA? Also, can I do that online or do I have to make phone calls? (I have no clue where to go for that - do I tell Prudential to do it? Or does Vanguard/Fidelity do that for me? I hate face-to-face meetings if I can avoid it and just do it all online. Also - do I have to pay any taxes on rollovers?)

Sorry, I'm just clueless. :)

Also - I'm 42 y/o. Probably working to my 60s at least. More like 70s :(


EdIt -I have no debt, other than a car payment and a mortgage I'm 15-years into.

I have an excellent credit rating. Don't owe any money and always pay everything off on time.
 

Keyboard

Guest
1. I think Roth will work out better since you state you overpay. You have to investigate that yourself.
2. Depends on the fund. Target Date retirement funds are usually $1000 minimum. Simply pick the year you want to retire, and the fund manages itself.

$5500 is the total individual contribution limit to traditional and roth IRA. You can't fund $11000 in an individual account unless it's a conversion.
3. I rephrased the question as I don't much know about Prudential.

You can transfer a 401K to a Traditional IRA and not worry about taxes yet. You will need to fill out a form at the transferring destination brokerage of your choice, and they will take care of the rest. One thing to consider is if there is a penalty for withdrawing from a 401K too early as some firms have a minimum time required. Usually there isn't, but it's something to consider.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,937
1. I think Roth will work out better since you state you overpay. You have to investigate that yourself.
2. Depends on the fund. Target Date retirement funds are usually $1000 minimum. Simply pick the year you want to retire, and the fund manages itself.

$5500 is the total individual contribution limit to traditional and roth IRA. You can't fund $11000 in an individual account unless it's a conversion.
3. I rephrased the question as I don't much know about Prudential.

You can transfer a 401K to a Traditional IRA and not worry about taxes yet. You will need to fill out a form at the transferring destination brokerage of your choice, and they will take care of the rest. One thing to consider is if there is a penalty for withdrawing from a 401K too early as some firms have a minimum time required.

1. Does a rollover count as a withdrawal?
2. So, If I have 8K ina 401K, I can only rollover $5500 into the IRA?
3. Are you saying I should rollover $5500 of the 401K into the traditional IRA and the rest into a Roth IRA?

Sorry, I know this sounds dumb. But as I said, total noob here.
 

Keyboard

Guest
1. I might be confusing words here. Withdrawal as in leaving the 401K plan and transferring it to Traditional.

I was reading something about Ameriprise, and they have some 2 year required arrangement for its retirement plans. If you transfer out too early (< 2 years), then you pay a penalty.

2. You can roll over 100%. All of it to a traditional IRA at a brokerage of your choice. There is no limit in this scenario because you're not adding money.

Again, you want to double check your expense ratios in your current invested funds to see if a rollover is worthwhile. For most people it usually is.

3. Good you're asking questions because with money, you want to be 100% sure where it's going and be careful when someone says, "Trust me!" or "Believe me."
 
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Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,937
1. I might be confusing words here. Withdrawal as in leaving the 401K plan and transferring it to Traditional.

I was reading something about Ameriprise, and they have some 2 year required arrangement for its retirement plans. If you transfer out too early (< 2 years), then you pay a penalty.

2. You can roll over 100%. All of it to a traditional IRA at a brokerage of your choice.

3. Good you're asking questions because with money, you want to be 100% sure where it's going and be careful when someone says, "Trust me," or "Believe me."

So, if I call Prudential and tell them to roll my money over to a Vanguard Traditional IRA, then what?

And why traditional? Will that 401K rollover be taxed if I roll it over to a Roth IRA? Will that rollover to the Traditional IRA be tax-deductible?

Also - should I wait until January 1 to do this? Or right now?

Trying to figure out which IRA to rollover to and when to do it and if I'll be getting hit much on taxes when I retire and have to make withdrawals for bills and stuff.

Thanks.

(I have no plans to withdrawal from the IRA until I retire. Literally a "put-in" account until I retire. I know emergencies are possible. But I live a fairly boring life.)
 

Keyboard

Guest
1. You fill out a form at Vanguard, Fidelity, or anywhere else to issue a 401K transfer. You only need to call Prudential if you need information about your account. Again, check to see if a rollover makes sense for you by checking expense ratios.

2. Traditional is safer in that you're still tax-deferred. Roth means you pay taxes on it now. Since you already deducted 401K, no, you don't get a double deduction. You can convert the traditional to roth later.

3. Do it whenever you're comfortable. Dividends + Capital Gains for funds are usually paid by the end of this month. Make sure you 100% fully understand what's going on here. Some people never do it.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,937
1. You fill out a form at Vanguard, Fidelity, or anywhere else to issue a 401K transfer. You only need to call Prudential if you need information about your account. Again, check to see if a rollover makes sense for you by checking expense ratios.

2. Traditional is safer in that you're still tax-deferred. Roth means you pay taxes on it now. Since you already deducted 401K, no, you don't get a double deduction. You can convert the traditional to roth later.

3. Do it whenever you're comfortable. Make sure you 100% fully understand what's going on here. Some people never do it.

I don't know where to look at expense ratios. You mean on my 401K account? I can pull that up right now actually. I'll take a peek around.
 

Keyboard

Guest
You should be able to find that information with the fund's symbol on the Internet (through Morningstar) or in your fund's prospective somewhere in your portfolio.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,937
OK, my 401K stats: lol

(going to round so nobody tries to steal my shit)

Value: $8K vested
Personal Performance from 1/1/17 to today: +20%
Investment: American Funds 2040 Trgt Date Retire R3

Expenses View more information about Expense Ratios (as of 11/30/2017)

Gross Expense Ratio*
1.11%
Net Expense Ratio** 1.11%
*Gross Expense per $1,000 = $11.10
**Net Expense per $1,000 = $11.10

There's a more detailed page with more specific Expense Ratios for each individual investment (bonds and whatnot). The highest one is 1.3%. The rest are either 1.1% or lower.

^NOTE: I have no idea what any of this means and I feel no shame about that. So, guide me great Resetera advisors!