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Resetera's Top 101 Essential RPGs - Final Update. Top 101 up plus many extras.
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
To trick your enemies, you first have to trick your allies
Sabotage. Should've known.
It has to work one of these times right?
Next year I'm rethinking my gif strategy lol
...
right?
I disagree with both this statement and the overall bandwagon notion that Torment's narrative is forever untouchable.
I found Planescape mind-numbingly frustrating to play, and Drakengard had an equally great story.
Given a choice between the mindless hack'n'slash and the obtuse point'n'click, I'll take the mindless hack'n'slash every time.
Never said untouchable. I don't think it is particularly a good game to play. That said, I do think it has some of the finest writing in gaming and IMO it is the best writing that I have encountered in the genre.
Planescape: Torment's writing is phenomenal, but The Witcher 3 and KotOR 2 are also behemoths in that department. I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that Planescape: Torment is on a different level from literally every other RPG.
It is probably still the best though.
It is probably still the best though.
Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Bloodborne, Nier: Automata, Witcher 3, Fallout: New Vegas.
That's not cherry picking, that's a major cut-scene in the game. In fact, dancing and singing about the Watchers is how Mana spends 90% of her screentime.
Kswinston mentioned a few pages back that we'd be getting the top 10 tomorrow in two groups one early on and another later on so there can be time to discuss them in between each set being released.
I'm well aware, but that's not reflective of Drakengard's story as a whole.
yeah, this is a really good list overall. some things out of order in my opinion, but that's to be expected. Final Fantasy IX that high seems... weird? But I lost interest in the series getting through 8 and it never really returned. so I guess that's to be expected too. it's not a bad game by any means.
I will say the lack of Disgaea hurts my soul, but there's still time!!!
I will say the lack of Disgaea hurts my soul, but there's still time!!!
prolly not
Well... "towns/dungeon/overworld exploration" is a new addition to your definition.
With the Elder Scrolls UI mods I feel this was not a big thing with Morrowind and came more with Oblivion and Skyrim, where the UI was made for analog sticks and low resolution on consoles.
I hope you are using the pluralis maiestatis 'cause I do not think that menuing is seen as such an integral part of RPGs and their feel by most. I personally see the use of menus in RPGs as necessary evil. It is used because a non menu approach is not possible or to difficult yet.
Sure, but under that same general broad RPG feeling that encompasses Lufia and Dragon Age I would also feel Borderlands.
So, with your definition you must think that Breath of the Wild (BotW) is an RPG. You spent a lot of time in menus there. With the weapon degradation you are menuing in almost every fight between weapons, tech, food and potions. You are often using the inventory to cook and change your armor. The map is a useful and integral part of the experience. You have dialog and shops. I have spent more time in BotW in menus than in any Bethesda game. Overworld exploration is a huge thing. Several towns to visit and some dungeons (for my taste there could be more dungeons).
You can see RPG in gaming terms like Rock in music. If someone asks you to for a recommendation of rock music you will have as much or even bigger problem finding something to the persons liking because rock is so broad. Some new alternative rock like Imagine Dragons is as different to the Beatles or Bruce Springsteen as the difference between Chrono Cross and Borderlands. And Borderlands has its fair share of menuing with quests, inventory/loot and skill trees and some dialog. It even has a map. It also has towns, overworld exploration and dungeons. And for the more old school RPG definition here it has stats, levels and experience points. I feel that Bethesda RPGs feel more similar to Borderlands than to Chrono Cross. And in my music analogy I used a quite narrow definition of rock. If we include punk and metal (which are subgenres of rock) we get comparisons of Beatles and Springsteen to death metal. And that is like comparing Chrono Cross to Fifa. When someone asks for recommendation they will have to specify the subgenre and style. Even JRPG is to vague. Secret of Mana and Persona are JRPGs but they have very different feels.
the thing about RPGs and dungeons is that I hate nearly all of them that are not in games called Diablo or Zelda, but the latter series is obviously not RPGs and everyone knows that right
JRPGs with the typical overworld - town - dungeon - repeat formula? Hell for me, especially if it's mind numbingly slow turn-based combat*, especially especially if you're forced into combat every few steps, doesn't have to be random encounters either but those are the just worst. Bravely Default comes to mind as a pretty typical example of this, and the devs of that game at least had the foresight to include a fast-forward battle option because of how awful the experience is. When nearly the entire game is one big combat zone, with only a few standard cookie-cutter towns with nonsense NPC for reprise, chances are I'm going to hate it
and that's not limited to JRPGs. Just take both Kotors, the first Dragon Age, the Mass Effect games on this list - are a series of corridors filled with combat encounters to occupy the player, with some insignificant non-combat areas inbetween. Draw the layout of the games on a blank paper - there aren't any dungeons and not-dungeons, you never really leave the dungeon. Sure, it can look like a serene forest or farmland one minute and the inside of an active volcano the next, but you're never leaving the dreaded Bioware corridors. If you're familiar with let's say the much maligned first NWN, each following Bioware title, which make up nearly the entire catalogue of WRPGs on this list, is structured the exact same way. The combat may be different, the writing better, the characters more likeable, but the underlying skeleton of the games is the same - particularly obvious if you used to tinker with the Aurora engine toolkit. Playing these games - I'm making an exception for the first ME only because I have a soft spot for it - was already a slog back then. It's honestly so not worth it throwing away dozens of hours of you life on Kotor 2 for the handful of wrll-written dialogues with Keira
since this post is getting long and incoherent, let me get back to my first point which is that dungeons in RPGs are with nearly no exception always a waste of digital space and syphon away your life force or at the very least your time
there's whole 'nother discussion to be had about nostalgia votes versus "holy shit this is unplayable today what was I thinking recommending it to anyone else" but then this list and thread would look entirely different. I would have voted differently too
*I can play tactic and strategy games like the HoM&M series, XCOM, the FEs, KB: Amored Princess, Banner Saga just fine, or grand strategy like Civ, TW and so on. I played the old Fallouts and new Shadowruns. Just elaborating on this point because people have been conditioned to think that going through a thousand gratingly, painfully slow random turn-based battles per game is somehow more intellectually stimulating
JRPGs with the typical overworld - town - dungeon - repeat formula? Hell for me, especially if it's mind numbingly slow turn-based combat*, especially especially if you're forced into combat every few steps, doesn't have to be random encounters either but those are the just worst. Bravely Default comes to mind as a pretty typical example of this, and the devs of that game at least had the foresight to include a fast-forward battle option because of how awful the experience is. When nearly the entire game is one big combat zone, with only a few standard cookie-cutter towns with nonsense NPC for reprise, chances are I'm going to hate it
and that's not limited to JRPGs. Just take both Kotors, the first Dragon Age, the Mass Effect games on this list - are a series of corridors filled with combat encounters to occupy the player, with some insignificant non-combat areas inbetween. Draw the layout of the games on a blank paper - there aren't any dungeons and not-dungeons, you never really leave the dungeon. Sure, it can look like a serene forest or farmland one minute and the inside of an active volcano the next, but you're never leaving the dreaded Bioware corridors. If you're familiar with let's say the much maligned first NWN, each following Bioware title, which make up nearly the entire catalogue of WRPGs on this list, is structured the exact same way. The combat may be different, the writing better, the characters more likeable, but the underlying skeleton of the games is the same - particularly obvious if you used to tinker with the Aurora engine toolkit. Playing these games - I'm making an exception for the first ME only because I have a soft spot for it - was already a slog back then. It's honestly so not worth it throwing away dozens of hours of you life on Kotor 2 for the handful of wrll-written dialogues with Keira
since this post is getting long and incoherent, let me get back to my first point which is that dungeons in RPGs are with nearly no exception always a waste of digital space and syphon away your life force or at the very least your time
there's whole 'nother discussion to be had about nostalgia votes versus "holy shit this is unplayable today what was I thinking recommending it to anyone else" but then this list and thread would look entirely different. I would have voted differently too
*I can play tactic and strategy games like the HoM&M series, XCOM, the FEs, KB: Amored Princess, Banner Saga just fine, or grand strategy like Civ, TW and so on. I played the old Fallouts and new Shadowruns. Just elaborating on this point because people have been conditioned to think that going through a thousand gratingly, painfully slow random turn-based battles per game is somehow more intellectually stimulating
What's worse is that I've seen plenty of people on these boards acknowledge that the predictable, slow battles aren't intellectually stimulating but argue that they are still important to 1) extend playtime and 2) weed out players unwilling to "work" for rewards.
Baldur's Gate 2 had interesting dungeons with puzzles, theming, traps, environmental storytelling and hand-crafted encounters, though it's probably the last Bioware game you could really say that for.
That's true. Random encounters is probably one of the less intellectually stimulating things in the genre. They're almost never a real threat to the party and most of the decision making on player's part is purely mechanical and not in any way tactical (especially true in case of classic turn-based JRPGs). I guess this type of encounter design can work well if done with more dynamic combat system (something like Resonance of Fate) but even then it can be annoying after awhile.
Certainly wouldn't miss them if JRPGs also finally got the memo that you don't need thousands and thousands of trash mob fights and in fact not having them would likely just make your game that much better. This is one of the reasons why I've started to heavily lean towards CRPGs over the past few years.
They're practically never actually interesting after the first handful of hours. I started a playthrough of Xenoblade since its spot on the list was revealed, and I just find myself running past every trash mob cause why would I waste my time with them, sour myself on the game again with all the endless, repetitive, boring fighting? I'm no doubt gonna be super underleveled later on thanks to this, however, so damned if you do, damned if you don't.
At least on Dolphin I can double my gained exp and sp or something, might alleviate the problem a bit.
Lol
They're practically never actually interesting after the first handful of hours. I started a playthrough of Xenoblade since its spot on the list was revealed, and I just find myself running past every trash mob cause why would I waste my time with them, sour myself on the game again with all the endless, repetitive, boring fighting? I'm no doubt gonna be super underleveled later on thanks to this, however, so damned if you do, damned if you don't.
At least on Dolphin I can double my gained exp and sp or something, might alleviate the problem a bit.
Lol
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someone never met malboros, I see
so untrue, you might wanna give a try to FF4 for example
edited: also the love for Chrono Cross that was blooming in here a while ago made me happy.
Octopath traveler having random battles is part of the reason why I haven't bought it yet honestly.
With just one passive skill that you can get very quickly, you can go though a full map with only one encounter. Sometimes none if the path is not too long.
D:OS2 is way better, and deservedly higher on the list. PoE is great, but as time goes on is probably going to be less regarded. It's a solid 8/10, but some parts of the game are a bit weak and I didn't feel it was best in genre in any aspect. It's not quite an instant classic, and now that CRPGs are back in vogue (somewhat) its spot as the herald of new CRPGs is going to be taken by other games. D:OS2 is a solid contender at the moment, or PoE 2 with all DLC (and some patches) might be it.
This time it's Mass Effect 2 I bid farewell! Another great ranking. Really, I'm just super-happy almost all my favorites have been showing up. :D
And in OT's defense, the battles are basically the best part of the game, and they're somewhat difficult if you play underleveled which makes them really fun (lower the frequency with skills like you suggest and never disable them and you should always be under-leveled and have a better experience via a bigger challenge requiring more caution and strategy in battle).
But yeah, you can adjust the frequency pretty well (increased or decrease) so I wouldn't let that hold you back too much.
Going to play D:OS2 soon since i only have a PS4, can't wait! As for PoE, i might overvalue it's quality simply because that type of game is very rare to have on PS4. But i really loved it and can't wait for PoE 2 on PS4.
I can honestly say I will never play another game with traditional JRPG-style random battles again. That thing where you're just walking and suddenly there's that jarring screen transition and you have to fight enemies you couldn't see. Nope. Never again.
Even just being able to see them on the field makes all the difference. The way Trails of Cold Steel did it is fine.
Even just being able to see them on the field makes all the difference. The way Trails of Cold Steel did it is fine.
Re: Divinity Original Sin, I always see the same "the story is goofy" comment. That's honestly the main reason I've put off playing it and its sequel, despite everything else being appealing. I'd just find it kinda hard to get into a CRPG if the story doesn't really take itself seriously.
Like, is it on par with characters like Shale in Dragon Age Origins or is it more, I dunno, Paper Mario/Fable levels of goof?
Like, is it on par with characters like Shale in Dragon Age Origins or is it more, I dunno, Paper Mario/Fable levels of goof?
The battles are great in this game... it doesn't annoy me to battle them.
There are good and bad ways to do random battles, as with most other mechanics. Even Undertale, which avoids ludonarrative dissonance as much as possible, has random battles–and they're good, perhaps partially because their mechanics are constantly changing. One late-game section even makes the random appearance of enemies suitably creepy.
The issue is when battles are imbalanced, offering either too much or too little challenge to seem worthwhile. And that's more of a balance issue than a random-battles issue.
The issue is when battles are imbalanced, offering either too much or too little challenge to seem worthwhile. And that's more of a balance issue than a random-battles issue.
I think the random battles have advantages and disadvantages...
I have the ideia if you live in a real world florets with tons of beasts they will attack you without see them... so random battles is more adjusted to that feeling while the enemy in the corridor not unless you are the stealth guy that ambush the enemy.
The ideia that you can see the enemy that will attack you in a battlefield before he attacks always bothered me.
But random battles did not match what I want too... so it is not perfect... if it was a MP game with FP camera maybe because you attacked from all sides and you only see few guys that are in your front... that is the perfectly way.
For turn-based I guess a game with both systems is the best way... you can see some enemies in the corridor but some will ambush you like random battles... are there any game like that?
I have the ideia if you live in a real world florets with tons of beasts they will attack you without see them... so random battles is more adjusted to that feeling while the enemy in the corridor not unless you are the stealth guy that ambush the enemy.
The ideia that you can see the enemy that will attack you in a battlefield before he attacks always bothered me.
But random battles did not match what I want too... so it is not perfect... if it was a MP game with FP camera maybe because you attacked from all sides and you only see few guys that are in your front... that is the perfectly way.
For turn-based I guess a game with both systems is the best way... you can see some enemies in the corridor but some will ambush you like random battles... are there any game like that?
Well I give up on The Witcher 3 due the battle sustem after brought the game lol
It is just not fun.
The story in 1 is very goofy. But don't make that keep you away from 2. The games are set 1000 years apart and don't really relate to one another in significant ways.
Just play 2 it has great storytelling and characters. Still funny at times, but takes itself much more seriously.