... does it?
I dropped P2 mostly because of how fucking tedious the dungeons and gameplay is.
LIke fuck a P3 remake (would love that too), P2 is the one I want a remake of the most.
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Resetera's Top 101 Essential RPGs - Final Update. Top 101 up plus many extras.
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
... does it?
I dropped P2 mostly because of how fucking tedious the dungeons and gameplay is.
LIke fuck a P3 remake (would love that too), P2 is the one I want a remake of the most.
Yeah, I haven't followed all the posts on the thread, nor am I really a ResetEra regular, so I was referencing the last few posts. I stand corrected!
Not a fan of Persona 5, but I enjoyed Persona 4. I'll give you two major reasons why I found it disappointing.
1) Persona 5 has really bad dungeons. They take forever to complete, and the battle system are the weakest part for me in Persona games. They're just a poor man's version of Pokemon's. I prefer Persona 4's dungeon and Mementos due to be able to run through those dungeons really quickly just by finding the door/stairs. Give me a short boring looking dungeon over a long pretty dungeon if the battle system isn't anything special.
2)The main party. It's a lot weaker than the previous game and one of the character felt like a last minute addition. You can completely cut her and her dungeon and nothing would change, she doesn't contribute anything to the party. Previous game, everyone in the main party got development at least.
Oh and I thought the story was weaker too.
1) Persona 5 has really bad dungeons. They take forever to complete, and the battle system are the weakest part for me in Persona games. They're just a poor man's version of Pokemon's. I prefer Persona 4's dungeon and Mementos due to be able to run through those dungeons really quickly just by finding the door/stairs. Give me a short boring looking dungeon over a long pretty dungeon if the battle system isn't anything special.
2)The main party. It's a lot weaker than the previous game and one of the character felt like a last minute addition. You can completely cut her and her dungeon and nothing would change, she doesn't contribute anything to the party. Previous game, everyone in the main party got development at least.
Oh and I thought the story was weaker too.
I'd much rather have Persona 4's randomized dungeons that take maybe a bit more then an hour for almost all of them then the slogs that are Persona 5's which can upwards of 3 hours long. If Persona 5's dungeons were good I'd gladly give them credit for it but not only are they not good but they are relentlessly long. Persona 4's are generally only have 10 floors deep and when I say a bit more then an hour thats like the max, if you rush through and avoid enemies you can get through many of them in less then thirty minutes. It doesn't help that Persona 5's dungeons have some of the worst mechanics in any dungeon ever such as the Mice Maze in Palace 7 or unlocking the stupid safe in the third palace.
Those dungeons could be half the length they are and I would still prefer the randomized dungeons of Persona 4, they are awful.
Anyway...
So I did better then I thought I would. Nailed Pokemon and had both Baldurs gate and FFIX off by one space, thats not half bad.
Well with the remaining 10 heres my updated list...
10. Fallout New Vegas
9. Neir: Automata
8. Persona 5
7. Dark Souls
6. Final Fantasy VII
5. Bloodborne
4. Witcher 3
3. Persona 4
2. Chrono Trigger
1. Final Fantasy VI
In my original list I don't think I was giving CT enough credit and it could very well be #1 but I want FFVI to be #1 so... Yeah. I think Persona 4 will still do extremely well and I didn't even look at the old list as I made this one and I still put Wticher 3, Bloodborne, FFVII, and Dark Souls in the same spots! I also think I was underestimating Persona 5 a bit and honestly if any of the games that aren't in the top 5 that have a chance of breaking into it my money would be on Persona, this forum has a massive hard on for that game. I think you could easily flip Fallout NV and Neir up there, the latter of which I really should pick up and play at some point with how high its ranking here.
Haha, no worries. I am down on P5 a lot too because I think it has some of the most glaring flaws in a "great" game I have ever seen, and they are grating and frustrating, especially in a game of its scope.
But it's still my second favorite game of all time (or at least, tied for it with P4).
I think where you place the Persona games has largely to do with which characters and stories resonated the most in a lot of cases. I think that P5 has by far the best gameplay in the series and even though there is a dungeon too many in the mix, it still has much better dungeon design than 3 or 4. I do think the arc of individual characters and through social links is better in the other two games though. I could throw Yusuke and Haru in the bin in terms of their involvement in the main plotline and be fine.
With regards to the list update really happy to see FFIX getting it's rightful spot within touching distance of the top 10. Also glad FFVII and VI would appear to both have made the top 10, imo they are the pinnacle of both the 2D entries (FFVI) and 3d entries (FFVII). Witcher 3 and Chrono should also make it.
With regards to the list update really happy to see FFIX getting it's rightful spot within touching distance of the top 10. Also glad FFVII and VI would appear to both have made the top 10, imo they are the pinnacle of both the 2D entries (FFVI) and 3d entries (FFVII). Witcher 3 and Chrono should also make it.
That honour definitely goes to P3. It stops dolling out of plot about halfway through, and then dumps the entire rest of the plot right at the end.
On the basis that the dungeons in the rest of the series are actively bad, and P2's dungeon's are simply mediocre, I'd say so.
I haven't played enough of P5 to comment much but I'm assuming it doesn't vary *that* much from the formula in P3 and P4, in which case... yeah, PQ's battle system wins hands down for me too. A second Persona for everyone runs the risk of OP characters like in Suikoden II, but the game is balanced well so that the 1st, locked, character-specific Persona is a baseline of the character's abilities, while the second one complements them per your need at any given time. The elements borrowed from Etrian Odyssey mesh well too although I don't remember the specifics offhand.
When I played Persona Q, I planned out my team by role, which is something I mostly didn't have to do in the mainline games. I wanted some characters on my team but I had to cave on others. I think I ran (very roughly, it's been a while):
Front: Koromaru (First Strike), Aigis (Tank), Chie (Physical DPS)
Back: P3 Protag (Buff/Debuffer), Naoto (Instant Death Caster)
Edit: Naoto is a bit much in this game - A common complaint - And I didn't really want to use her but I also couldn't find anyone else good to really fill that last backrow slot, so I kinda had to default to her. That said, I was still able to look out for fights to challenge myself, so I'm satisfied with the experience.
10. Fallout New Vegas
9. Bloodborne
8. Persona 5
7. Dark Souls
6. Witcher 3
5. Persona 4
4. Final Fantasy VI
3. Final Fantasy VII
2. Chrono Trigger
1. Nier Automata
9. Bloodborne
8. Persona 5
7. Dark Souls
6. Witcher 3
5. Persona 4
4. Final Fantasy VI
3. Final Fantasy VII
2. Chrono Trigger
1. Nier Automata
We know who to blame if Nier beats it :P
Don't do this to me.
I won't be home until later and I'll post more at that time but I just wanted to slide in here real quick and say AUTOMATA FAM WE STILL IN THIS SHIT!! TOP 5 NEXT PhazonBlonde
The first NieR is really amazing in term story and characters... well the previous games are too.
Or are you talking about Automata?
Nier's ranking this year would actually be an improvement, it was #11 last year. Evidently it does have staying power.
Compare this to Skyrim, which reached #4 in 2012 and then wasn't anywhere to be seen in the top 20 next year. Or Fire Emblem: Awakening, which reached #9 in 2015 and then it was never seen in the top 20 again.
Compare this to Skyrim, which reached #4 in 2012 and then wasn't anywhere to be seen in the top 20 next year. Or Fire Emblem: Awakening, which reached #9 in 2015 and then it was never seen in the top 20 again.
Was gonna say. At worst P5 is tied with P3 for bad pacing. But I still find P3 worse on that front.
Sorry I read like "Nier A path".
To be fair NieR deserves more to be in the essential list than NieR Automata.
But I guess that is the recently power people are talking.
Mass Effect Andromeda had the potential of recapturing some of the magic of ME1. New galaxy, new aliens, and the colonizers in disarray. Unfortunately it was like Star Trek Into Darkness, ie. waaaaaayyyyy dumber in writing.
Few new aliens, all humanoid, and none interesting (and they didn't even bring back non-humanoid species from before). First contact was inconsequential and without any choices (also, alien computers, never in contact with humans, use arabic numbers?) Even colonization is basically "use console to activate space magic". Most side quests start off with an interesting premise and then drop off a cliff (I've seen suggestions to skip all "tasks", the lowest tier of side quests, no matter how interesting the set up is. And I tend to agree, unless you really like open-world fetch quests.). They also hide the storyline/reveal about your parents behind a painful collect-athon.
The Drakengard series had some of the worst gameplay I have ever witnessed.Sorry I read like "Nier A path".
To be fair NieR deserves more to be in the essential list than NieR Automata.
But I guess that is the recently power people are talking.
My least favorite part was how the main character was throwing around his Pathfinder title with the new aliens like they fucking knew what that was, or cared.
Is this the first time Planescape has been kicked out of the top 10? huh
I thought it was pretty much a shoe-in but looks like we did lose a few CRPG fans in the transition (or the higher number of votes weakened their relevance). I need to get back to it eventually.
5. Megadimension Neptunia VII
4. Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
3. Digimon World
2. Monster Rancher
1. The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link
I'm almost positive. Almost.
I thought it was pretty much a shoe-in but looks like we did lose a few CRPG fans in the transition (or the higher number of votes weakened their relevance). I need to get back to it eventually.
Top 5 baby here we go!
5. Megadimension Neptunia VII
4. Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
3. Digimon World
2. Monster Rancher
1. The Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link
I'm almost positive. Almost.
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Can't wait for those Sonic Chronicles OST highlights
(pretty sure it's in the rules for someone to post this when that game is mentioned)
Nier Automata in the top 10 will be the only thing that truly confuses me about the list. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a really good game, but I'm unable to see how its a more essential RPG than the likes of Baldur's Gate 2.
More of a problem with me I suppose, as clearly enough people disagree to vote it into the top 10.
More of a problem with me I suppose, as clearly enough people disagree to vote it into the top 10.
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the thread consists nearly entirely of arguments about which FF ranks where and why my favorite JRPG is better than your favorite JRPG, so even if you weren't aware of the voting results from previous years the top 10 (top 101 tbh) should come as no surprise. New Vegas is the outsider here, and I didn't even like that game that much
Yes, what kind of douchebag goes around insisting "call me pathfinder" when the title was passed by inheritance (an NPC even points out that is not standard procedure), not merit? If the story leaned into insecurities of learning the job on the fly, it might have been interesting. But it doesn't.
Also, when an NPC asks "what happened?" right after that death, the main character answers very casually "to who?" (prepatch, at this point Male Ryder looks baked, and Fem Ryder has a sly grin) I opinion of Ryder never recovered.
They are still Essential.... nobody play them for the gameplay.
Probably... it is the greatest Fallout ever created... shame this Fallout 4.
Both should not be in the list... one is bad and the other is not the premisse of the thread.
we pretty much already know which 10 games will be in the top 10, so yeah.
The one thing I do love about the top 10 is that there's no bad picks. Nothing straight up bad. Everything I could see an argument for being number one. Couldn't say that about Mass Effect 2 or whatever
Some people have a really hard time dealing with opinions.
Also, people can't vote for games they haven't played. You can't compare the number of people on this forum that played Planescape Torment with the number that played FFIX for example.
Considering that I think PT and BG2 did very well.
Also, people can't vote for games they haven't played. You can't compare the number of people on this forum that played Planescape Torment with the number that played FFIX for example.
Considering that I think PT and BG2 did very well.
I mean, we don't know how many votes for NieR Automata that did not include BG2 did so because they considered BG2 less essential. Consider cases where the voter hadn't played BG2.
That is, enough people considered Automata essential to vote it into the top 10 but that doesn't imply there is a direct comparison in their votes with BG2.
Mass Effect is every bit an RPG in the same way Dark Souls/Bloodborne are
which is to say none of them should count
A takeaway from this list for me is that Era should try more PC games. Also If people don't mind the isometric perspective they should give Shadowrun: Dragonfall a shot. It was pretty low on the list and I think it's glorious (and a great gateway drug to CRPGs being quite a bit more straightforward than most). You don't need a great PC to play 90% of the cRPGs on this list. Give em a shot. GOG.com is your friend.
I wouldn't consider a game that is a literal chore to play and is an awful experience essential. I mean it's worth watching a story breakdown but I would never recommend anyone actually play them.
smh at people saying the dungeons in Persona 5 are bad. I hope you like your corridor dungeons.
Uhhh..
Mass Effect has you making tons of choice as your character, you have a complete build and is story heavy.
Dark Souls not so much.
